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Truth about Porn

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jul/02/gail-dines-pornography

Anyone think she is onto something?

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Well from personal experience, many of the girls who like degredation, being dominated, name calling etc in the bedroom are the kinds of girls who won't accept any kind of disrespect in any other context. Other, quiet unassuming girls can enjoy being dominant.

So fantasies don't necessarily translate into real life. In fact, I'd even consider it to be somewhat of a holiday, a chance to try something different,be someone different.

How the article can equate ejaculating on a partner's face with sexual violence is beyond me.

Although correlation is not causation, real sexual violence such as rape has decreased during the last two decades, while porn consumption has increased (due to the internet).

Although correlation is not causation, real sexual violence such as rape has decreased during the last two decades, while porn consumption has increased (due to the internet).

Is not sexual violence committed to the women in the porn shoot or porn movie? Don't you accept that real violence is being committed agaisnt these women? A woman who is exploited and made to degrade herself by being triple penetrated by multiple men before being drenched in ejaculation while untold millions of masturbating men watch her on the internet is a victim of hatred and violence.
Female porn stars endure hours and hours of scenes when they must have sex with men with over large penises.
STD infection and abuse of painkillers are at epidemic levels among performers.
The psychological damage inflicted on these women is extraordinary.
Porn hurts women.
It is a vile evil industry.

jurgenscarl wrote: »

Is not sexual violence committed to the women in the porn shoot or porn movie? Don't you accept that real violence is being committed agaisnt these women? A woman who is exploited and made to degrade herself by being triple penetrated by multiple men before being drenched in ejaculation while untold millions of masturbating men watch her on the internet is a victim of hatred and violence.
Female porn stars endure hours and hours of scenes when they must have sex with men with over large penises.
STD infection and abuse of painkillers are at epidemic levels among performers.
The psychological damage inflicted on these women is extraordinary.
Porn hurts women.
It is a vile evil industry.

They choose to join the industry. They are far from exploited considering the money they get paid for the profession they chose to join.

Ron Jeremy has commented on the pay scale of women and men of the sex film industry: "The average guy gets $300 to $400 a scene, or $100 to $200 if he's new. A woman makes $100,000 to $250,000 at the end of the year.[9] "Girls can easily make 100K-250K per year, plus stuff on the side like strip shows and appearances. The average guy makes $40,000 a year."[10]

If you don't like it, then don't watch it.

jurgenscarl wrote: »

Is not sexual violence committed to the women in the porn shoot or porn movie? Don't you accept that real violence is being committed agaisnt these women? A woman who is exploited and made to degrade herself by being triple penetrated by multiple men before being drenched in ejaculation

As long as it's voluntary, I dont consider this as sexual violence regardless of whether it's done together with a few male mates of hers, in a swingers club or with actors.

I'm not sure why the focus is on the women anyways, aren't the poor men who are forced to ejaculate all over a woman equally deserving of rescue?

jurgenscarl wrote: »

Is not sexual violence committed to the women in the porn shoot or porn movie? Don't you accept that real violence is being committed agaisnt these women? A woman who is exploited and made to degrade herself by being triple penetrated by multiple men before being drenched in ejaculation while untold millions of masturbating men watch her on the internet is a victim of hatred and violence.

Porn actress: I want to be in a porn movie
Porn director: Ok, we will pay you X dollars per hour
Porn actress: Great. What will you be doing in this shoot?
Porn director: Well we do pretty hardcore stuff, including [lists sexual acts]
Porn actress: Ok I'm cool with that / No, that sounds too rough I don't want to do that.

Explain to me where the exploration takes place?

I'm all for regulation of the porn industry, I'm all for enforcement of health and safety such as mandatory condom use and limits on acts that are particularly risky etc. I'm all for heavy education of health risks (porn stars seem particularly naive about STD dangers)

But at the end of the day we are talking about consenting adults here. I'm sure naive stupid girls (and guys) get involved in porn but that is true of all industries. When was the last time the stunt man industry was called vile and evil because some naive people get involved with it without fully appreciating the risks?

jurgenscarl wrote: »

I
Female porn stars endure hours and hours of scenes when they must have sex with men with over large penises.

Define "must have sex"?

These women (and men) are doing a job they are paid for. If they don't want to do it they don't have to do it.

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

They choose to join the industry. They are far from exploited considering the money they get paid for the profession they chose to join.

Let's not also forget that standards are much higher for men in porn. Aside from a few famous faces, there's a lot of pressure on men to maintain a very fit and trim body, to "perform" on cue and compete with a lot of other men who are younger, fitter and better than they are.

Women, by contrast can get away with being all shapes and sizes (granted, being slimmer will probably get you the most money), have a lot less competition and have physiological upper hand when it comes to "performing".

It's one of the few industries where women are by far the ones in the position of control. If all of the male porn actors were to strike for better conditions, there would be thousands of young men ready to step in and take their place. In fact, you technically don't even need men to keep the porn industry afloat. By contrast if the women were to strike, the industry would be on its knees (no pun intended).

jurgenscarl wrote: »

A woman who is exploited and made to degrade herself by being triple penetrated by multiple men before being drenched in ejaculation while untold millions of masturbating men watch her on the internet is a victim of hatred and violence.

While I have no doubt that exploitation occurs in the porn (or adult entertainment) industry, just as in anywhere else, you seem to be making the same assumptive mistake as Kooli and Dolorous earlier, which is because you would not see yourself doing such a thing, ergo no one else would either without being forced.

Psychologically speaking, I find this fascinating.

seamus wrote: »

By contrast if the women were to strike, the industry would be on its knees (no pun intended).

Admit it, your entire post was transparent excuse to come out with that pun

seamus wrote: »

Let's not also forget that standards are much higher for men in porn. Aside from a few famous faces, there's a lot of pressure on men to maintain a very fit and trim body, to "perform" on cue and compete with a lot of other men who are younger, fitter and better than they are.

Women, by contrast can get away with being all shapes and sizes (granted, being slimmer will probably get you the most money), have a lot less competition and have physiological upper hand when it comes to "performing".

It's one of the few industries where women are by far the ones in the position of control. If all of the male porn actors were to strike for better conditions, there would be thousands of young men ready to step in and take their place. In fact, you technically don't even need men to keep the porn industry afloat. By contrast if the women were to strike, the industry would be on its knees (no pun intended).

The women in porn are also much higher paid than the men, and there is much greater opportunity for the women to become rich. There are a large number of female porn stars who have capitalized on their image to produce an awful lot of money. I can't think of one male porn star who as famous as say Jenna Jameson.

The only remotely valid point to be taken from that piece is the increases access young (pre-teen) kids have to pornography these days, but even this is behind the times, any young male with 'net access has been able to find pornography for about the last 20 years. All of a sudden people can get XXX videos on their mobiles and this woman is up in arms?

Unless you're watching some kind of "snuff" movie, the people in pornography are consenting adults being paid to do a job, if they don't like it they don't have to do it, but they're not more victimised by this than any other person who's paid to do a job.

There is obviously an issue with pornography where it's being viewed by pre-teen kids, you're bound to have issues arising form them being exposed to something they're not equipped to assimilate properly. But the issue there is not the pornography itself but how these kids are able to access it so easily. And that's as much an issue of parenting as anything else.

"Porn" has existed for centuries, it's not new, some people are into it, some aren't, like anything else you can't have some fascist nanny-state approach to it although that's the increasingly populist way people seem to want their lives run these days.

Here's a question for the people bleating on about porn being degrading to women;

Assuming that these women have chosen to do this work for whatever reason, do you not think that you're actually taking power away from them by immediately labeling them as victims of some male propaganda? Surely they've made their own choice and are capable of dealing with that?

AngryBadger wrote: »

The only remotely valid point to be taken from that piece is the increases access young (pre-teen) kids have to pornography these days, but even this is behind the times, any young male with 'net access has been able to find pornography for about the last 20 years. All of a sudden people can get XXX videos on their mobiles and this woman is up in arms?

Unless you're watching some kind of "snuff" movie, the people in pornography are consenting adults being paid to do a job, if they don't like it they don't have to do it, but they're not more victimised by this than any other person who's paid to do a job.

There is obviously an issue with pornography where it's being viewed by pre-teen kids, you're bound to have issues arising form them being exposed to something they're not equipped to assimilate properly. But the issue there is not the pornography itself but how these kids are able to access it so easily. And that's as much an issue of parenting as anything else.

"Porn" has existed for centuries, it's not new, some people are into it, some aren't, like anything else you can't have some fascist nanny-state approach to it although that's the increasingly populist way people seem to want their lives run these days.

Here's a question for the people bleating on about porn being degrading to women;

Assuming that these women have chosen to do this work for whatever reason, do you not think that you're actually taking power away from them by immediately labeling them as victims of some male propaganda? Surely they've made their own choice and are capable of dealing with that?

ita well made point

The only women who would 'agree' to do porn are women in desperate poverty. Women who who have suffered sexual abuse in their childhood. Women who are drug addicted and need the money. Women who have been pressured into it by violent boyfriends partners and husbands who work in the industry and in shadowy organised crime syndicates.
The level of suicide and early deaths from drug use among women in the industry is epidemic.
Porn is corroding the morality of millions of men who use it and expect their wives, girlfriends and one-night stands to act out violent degrading acts they saw in the porn movies.
It has cheapened sex and put crude expectations on women to be automaton sex machine purely for the benefit of a male dominated patriarchial capitalist system.
It is vile, hideous and disgusting.
Anyone makes apologies for this gross abuse of women is utterly deluded.
The money that female pornstars make from the porn industry is scant compensation for sexual humiliation and acts that border on gang rape.
The male equivalent is the boxing industry which damages men physically and psychologically.

That's quite a litany of sweeping accusations. Care to back any of those up or should we all just accept them as an act of faith from you?

jurgenscarl wrote: »

The only women who would 'agree' to do porn are women in desperate poverty. Women who who have suffered sexual abuse in their childhood. Women who are drug addicted and need the money. Women who have been pressured into it by violent boyfriends partners and husbands who work in the industry and in shadowy organised crime syndicates.
The level of suicide and early deaths from drug use among women in the industry is epidemic.
It has cheapened sex and put crude expectations on women to be automaton sex machine purely for the benefit of a male dominated patriarchial capitalist system.

yeah love to know where you get your facts from . not all porn is directed by men their are many female directors who are now makin good money directing and normally they were previously porn stars , dont think they were so damaged to continue . all entertainment industry has its share of drug use and porn is no different .

jurgenscarl wrote: »

The only women who would 'agree' to do porn are women in desperate poverty. Women who who have suffered sexual abuse in their childhood. Women who are drug addicted and need the money. Women who have been pressured into it by violent boyfriends partners and husbands who work in the industry and in shadowy organised crime syndicates.
The level of suicide and early deaths from drug use among women in the industry is epidemic.
Porn is corroding the morality of millions of men who use it and expect their wives, girlfriends and one-night stands to act out violent degrading acts they saw in the porn movies.
It has cheapened sex and put crude expectations on women to be automaton sex machine purely for the benefit of a male dominated patriarchial capitalist system.
It is vile, hideous and disgusting.
Anyone makes apologies for this gross abuse of women is utterly deluded.
The money that female pornstars make from the porn industry is scant compensation for sexual humiliation and acts that border on gang rape.
The male equivalent is the boxing industry which damages men physically and psychologically.

I see and is this based on anything other than your personal views? Or is just just more expression of the limited dichotomy that typifies most of your posts?

No doubt there are women to whom some/all of the above apply, but how can you fail to see that taking responsibility for their own quality of life away form them only serves to undermine them?

Also, I love how your "arguments" tend to ignore the blindingly obvious, such as the fact that there are many women who have built fortunes out of this industry which you fail to even acknowledge.

I'm not endorsing pornography, I'm simply pointing out the utter fallacies your arguments are built upon, and focusing the argument on the real problems with pornography (namely exposure to young people who are not yet mature/experienced enough to view it in its proper context), and the fact that it's used by many people (like you), so support some kind of moral fascism which ultimately does far more harm than any amount of pornography ever could.

jurgenscarl wrote: »

The only women who would 'agree' to do porn are women in desperate poverty. Women who who have suffered sexual abuse in their childhood. Women who are drug addicted and need the money. Women who have been pressured into it by violent boyfriends partners and husbands who work in the industry and in shadowy organised crime syndicates.
The level of suicide and early deaths from drug use among women in the industry is epidemic.
Porn is corroding the morality of millions of men who use it and expect their wives, girlfriends and one-night stands to act out violent degrading acts they saw in the porn movies.
It has cheapened sex and put crude expectations on women to be automaton sex machine purely for the benefit of a male dominated patriarchial capitalist system.
It is vile, hideous and disgusting.
Anyone makes apologies for this gross abuse of women is utterly deluded.
The money that female pornstars make from the porn industry is scant compensation for sexual humiliation and acts that border on gang rape.
The male equivalent is the boxing industry which damages men physically and psychologically.

How do you explain the following two female porn stars?

Tera Patrick: While at Boise State, Patrick earned an AAS degree in nursing and a BS in Biology.

Asia Carrera: She studied piano as a child, and performed at Carnegie Hall twice before the age of 15. By 16 she taught English at Tsuruga College in Japan.[6] When she was 17, she ran away from home because she felt her parents put too much pressure on her to succeed academically. She won a full academic scholarship to Rutgers University and is a member of Mensa.

I'm waiting on your explanation as to how two obviously extremely academically fulfilled and highly intelligent women are being abused by the industry?

jurgenscarl wrote: »

The only women who would 'agree' to do porn are women in desperate poverty.

Why do so many people try to promote an image of women as some desperate sub-species under the guise of trying to help them?

Oh the poor little women, we must do something to protect them. Should all women be locked up in big towers for their own safety?

jurgenscarl wrote: »

The only women who would 'agree' to do porn are women in desperate poverty. Women who who have suffered sexual abuse in their childhood. Women who are drug addicted and need the money. Women who have been pressured into it by violent boyfriends partners and husbands who work in the industry and in shadowy organised crime syndicates.
The level of suicide and early deaths from drug use among women in the industry is epidemic.
Porn is corroding the morality of millions of men who use it and expect their wives, girlfriends and one-night stands to act out violent degrading acts they saw in the porn movies.
It has cheapened sex and put crude expectations on women to be automaton sex machine purely for the benefit of a male dominated patriarchial capitalist system.
It is vile, hideous and disgusting.
Anyone makes apologies for this gross abuse of women is utterly deluded.
The money that female pornstars make from the porn industry is scant compensation for sexual humiliation and acts that border on gang rape.
The male equivalent is the boxing industry which damages men physically and psychologically.

This is a sweeping statement that is incredibly inaccurate and incredibly unfair to womanhood.

Women can have healthy backgrounds, healthy relationships, and a healthy self-view of themselves and still want to involve themselves in the adult industry.

Wicknight wrote: »

Why do so many people try to promote an image of women as some desperate sub-species under the guise of trying to help them?

Oh the poor little women, we must do something to protect them. Should all women be locked up in big towers for their own safety?

Could'nt agree more. I think people like this are more insulting to women as they potray women as being helpless and unable to decide things for themselves.

They always assume that every women involved in porn must have been tricked or taken advantage of which is ridiculous.

Playing Devils advocate somewhat, there are certainly 'damaged' people in the porn industry and exploitation certainly does exist, even where it is legal.

Pornography is unlikely to be a career choice that many would aspire to, so it is probably not a surprise that many who do end up in it are those who will often not be able to hold down any other job (outside of menial ones). Then, the moral aspects behind pornography undoubtedly have a psychological toll of those involved, as they are involved in something they were brought up to believe was wrong and dirty. Add an environment that often is saturated with substance abuse and it is not surprising that many former or veteran porn stars end up basket cases and junkies.

Of the latter, possibly the best example would be Paul F. Little (A.K.A. Max Hardcore) who's brand of extreme pornography allegedly involved unethical and even potentially dangerous practices.

Of course, against all this, one has to consider that there are a lot of career choices that many would not aspire to out there. Yet some people, men and women, voluntarily choose to enter the porn industry - not against their will as allegedly with Linda Lovelace.

As an aside, I would note that the exploitation of women seems to be the only thing of concern to some. The possibility that men may be exploited either for straight or gay pornography does not seem to register.

Anyhow, it is a less than healthy environment with real health risks attached. So is coal mining. Or being a white South African farmer. Or, where it comes to substance abuse, being in any other part of the entertainment industry.

As to exploitation; welcome to Capitalism. Every industry will have some abuse and in some cases it is endemic to the industry. Indeed, being a blue-chip, respected, brand won't mean that you won't exploit your staff.

Would these psychologically damaged starlets be any less damaged without the porn industry? Maybe. Maybe not. But it appears that those who left damaged arrived into the industry with psychological baggage to begin with, so even if they had never entered it, it's a safe bet that they would not be well adjusted, middle-class career-women or homemakers.

So, is it a good or bad industry? I've no idea, but from what I can make out it is no worse than many 'acceptable' industries, in that whatever accusations one may make of it you will find comparable problems in 'acceptable' occupations and the women are being exploited line is a little difficult to accept given that it seems to be based on sexist assumptions about female sexuality (that's why male porn actors are never 'exploited'). Nonetheless, I would not rule out that it is a 'bad' industry also because there has been a move to sanitize it in recent years which is often as biased as the need to damn it.

But, even if it were a 'bad' one, subjective diatribes, such as jurgenscarl's are really not terribly helpful as they are so laughably naive as to convince people of the opposite of what they intend. Then again, people who come out with such diatribes are typically not really looking to convince anyone. In my experience they are simply expressing their divine right to have an option and get it off their chests.

What would people's reactions be if:
1) Their daughter expressed a desire to work in the industry?
2) Their wife/partner expressed a desire to work in the industry?
3) Their son expressed a desire to work in the industry?
4) Their husband/partner expressed a desire to work in the indsutry?
5) They started a relationship with someone and subsequently was told by the person concerned that he/she worked in the industry?
6) They started a relationship with somenone and found pictures/footage of the person, not having been told about it?

Genuinely curious, also its difficult to tell but it seems that most of those who think porn is acceptable/ not harmful are men. I may be wrong, open to correction. Obviously I'm a woman and I studied this industry in college. There are a lot of damaged people in it-Jenna Jameson was abused and gang raped in high school, but with the amount of fast money to be made who is exploiting who?

lazygal wrote: »

What would people's reactions be if:
1) Their daughter expressed a desire to work in the industry?
2) Their wife/partner expressed a desire to work in the industry?
3) Their son expressed a desire to work in the industry?

It is not a socially acceptable occupation and does come with medical risks - there's no denying this. Nonetheless, lots of other occupations carry risks and social stigma too - I'd hardly be overjoyed if my son/daughter decided they wanted to be a sanitary worker or a security consultant in Afghanistan.

4) Their husband/partner expressed a desire to work in the indsutry?
5) They started a relationship with someone and subsequently was told by the person concerned that he/she worked in the industry?
6) They started a relationship with somenone and found pictures/footage of the person, not having been told about it?

Naturally the issue of monogamous sex would likely be the principle factor - and that really comes down to how you view sex. For many it would be difficult, I'd imagine; even if they could get past the fact that their spouse/partner is having sex with someone else, it would be public - and if there is anything worse than being a cuckold is being a public cuckold. Additionally, because of the issue of STI's in such an occupation, that would be another concern. So my guess is that unless you were in the industry yourself and/or had a very open relationship, it would be difficult to maintain one with someone performing in pornography.

Obviously I'm a woman and I studied this industry in college.

Women's studies perchance?

There are a lot of damaged people in it-Jenna Jameson was abused and gang raped in high school, but with the amount of fast money to be made who is exploiting who?

Jenna Jameson was gang raped in high school - before she entered the industry. There is no doubt that this is an industry that attracts people with baggage, but then again no one denies that given a choice we would all have stable and fulfilling 9-to-5 jobs - something that some people just cant hold down.

So really the question is whether the industry itself causes damage rather than attracts damaged people.

The Corinthian wrote: »

Or, where it comes to substance abuse, being in any other part of the entertainment industry.

That is a good point. Replace porn with music and "Jenna Jameson" with "Britney Spears" and I would guess the sympathy level drops off quite significantly, despite Spears seeming to be as messed up as anyone you see in the porn industry.

At the end of the day porn is a way of making quick relatively easy money if you have what people are looking for. This will always attract people who are looking to make quick relatively easy money.

I studied law actually, media and criminal law, and spent a lot of time on the legal aspects of this industry due to the "freedom of expression" laws in the US which allow this industry to exist.
I don't think being in the industries to which you referred would damage the psyche. I have no moral argument here, but what I studied about the men and women who work in the industry is heartbreaking.

lazygal wrote: »

I have no moral argument here, but what I studied about the men and women who work in the industry is heartbreaking.

Is it more heart breaking than say being a hotel maid for a living? Or cleaning sheets? Genuine question. I can think of plenty of jobs I would not do and not want my mother sister brother to do. But with porn there seems to be this added air of objection.

Women can have healthy backgrounds, healthy relationships, and a healthy self-view of themselves and still want to involve themselves in the adult industry.

Rubbish.:mad:

You don't even believe that yourself.

Don't expect anyone to believe that BS.

Its the sexual abuse element I found heartbreaking. So many abused people doing the very thing that caused them to have a warped view of sexuality in the first place and not seeming to value themselves as healthy adults with a healthy view of sex.
Which would you rather-a mother or father who was raped being a maid or a porn star? Which will be better for her or him in the long run?

jurgenscarl wrote: »

Rubbish.:mad:

You don't even believe that yourself.

Don't expect anyone to believe that BS.

What are you basing all this on? Why do you think this?

Ciaran500 wrote: »

What are you basing all this on? Why do you think this?

Lets have a list of all the people who came from stable, middle class, non abusive environments who have experianced nothing but positive elements of the industry then.
I really mean this, what I've studied has been case after case of damaged individuals who entered the industry with chaotic lives, often as a last resort. I would love to hear another side to the business or from anyone who would like to be in it themselves as a viable career option.

lazygal wrote: »

I studied law actually, media and criminal law, and spent a lot of time on the legal aspects of this industry due to the "freedom of expression" laws in the US which allow this industry to exist.

I said women's studies because that is one of the few courses that covers it and is notorious for it's ideological bias.

I'm very cynical where it comes to any of the social sciences or humanities in modern universities because it's all ideologically driven. I remember in UCD, being a good socialist when sitting one lecturer's exam, a good monetarist for another's and a good Keynesian for yet another. As such, I have very little trust in what is taught at a bachelors level.

I don't think being in the industries to which you referred would damage the psyche. I have no moral argument here, but what I studied about the men and women who work in the industry is heartbreaking.

You think working as a military contractor in a place like Afghanistan is not going to affect your psyche? LOL.