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Child Item

Court orders demolition of family home.

Run_to_da_hills

"The High Court has ordered the demolition within two years of the two-storey home of a couple and their three children in Co Meath built by them after Meath County Council refused planning permission for a house half its size.

Michael and Rose Murray, who have lived in the house at Faughan Hill, Bohermeen, near Navan, since December 2006, had pleaded against the demolition order".

If I were him I would walk away from it and let the travellers move in, he was refused planning before on the same site for a house half that size. land without planning permission wouldn't be worth a fcuk and would cost heaps to knock it and clear the rubble.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0629/breaking42.html

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Dohnny Jepp

why does he deserve his money back?

mikemac

Ok, money back was first reaction but thinking on it, it seemed fair but it's actually way too much!
CPO it so, agricultural land values and not site values so as they do with road building.
And an average offer on construction estimates, whatever the council spend themselves when they build

The owner can take the offer and the council gets a cut-price home for housing multiple families, definitely not just one family.

Or it just gets demolished.

ricman

ITS like he made a bet, i,ll build it, it won,t go to court, they won,t get a demolition order, he lost.I see no reason to admire him, no more than someone who bets 300k, on a horse and loses, unfortunately theres no shortage of foolish reckless people out there. I Think its sad for the family.
It reminds me of a story i heard on rte,documentary about gamblers, some eejit goes to a card game on friday, comes home at 12.30 ,tells his wife and 2 kids ,we,ll have to move out tommorow , i lost the house.
HE bet the whole house on a hand of poker.
Theres a selfish idiot not thinking of his familys welfare.

walshb

But, why are we assuming it was the man who was pushing this?
Maybe, just maybe it was an intolerable wife pushing this build...

starbelgrade

walshb wrote: »

But, why are we assuming it was the man who was pushing this?
Maybe, just maybe it was an intolerable wife pushing this build...

There had to be two of them behind the decision. A wife might nag you to go & put the bins out or go to the shop for some bread & milk, but I seriously doubt that she kept saying to him, " I want a house & I want it NOW", up to the point where he said - as you do when you're about to put the bins out - "OK, I'll do it NOW, if it'll shut you up!"

walshb

starbelgrade wrote: »

There had to be two of them behind the decision. A wife might nag you to go & put the bins out or go to the shop for some bread & milk, but I seriously doubt that she kept saying to him, " I want a house & I want it NOW", up to the point where he said - as you do when you're about to put the bins out - "OK, I'll do it NOW, if it'll shut you up!"

Yes, two of them in it is being fair and diplomatic; it is just that most here seem to be
mentioning him him him him......Hey, a nagging wife can be real hell
to live with.

mikemac

ricman wrote: »

It reminds me of a story i heard on rte,documentary about gamblers, some eejit goes to a card game on friday, comes home at 12.30 ,tells his wife and 2 kids ,we,ll have to move out tommorow , i lost the house.
HE bet the whole house on a hand of poker.
Theres a selfish idiot not thinking of his familys welfare.

Gambling debts aren't enforceble and no family ever moved out if the house was bet on a game on cards.
Unless this guy was betting with the mafia :eek:

ricman

Sounds like you are saying theres 2 fools involved here, i just presumed it was the man saying i want a big gaff and feck the begrudgers.
i think theres a code of honor among professional gamblers, nothing to do with the mafia,you make a bet, you honor it.

loobylou

walshb wrote: »

He should have got Pamela Izewayu' on the case, I am sure she would have got
this thing dragged on for years, eventually leading to them keeping the house

Dunno.... 24 months is'nt a bad start.:p

[Deleted User]

K-9 wrote: »

The house is 6,500 sq. ft.

Those figures would be skewed by box sized apartments and tiny 3/4 bed semis built during the bubble.

yeah exactly my point. We should have bigger houses and 6,000 sq ft + is a good thing not a bad thing who are you to tell someone else they wont use something?

walshb

loobylou wrote: »

Dunno.... 24 months is'nt a bad start.:p

Not to mention the fact that they have been living there since 2006? 4 year start...:)

Mike 1972

baldbear wrote: »

A 3 year jail sentence with a bit suspended and let him keep the house,

So people who break the law should be allowed to keep the proceeds of their crimes ?

[Deleted User]

Mike 1972 wrote: »

So people who break the law should be allowed to keep the proceeds of their crimes ?

the family didnt steal anything

your confusing civil law with criminal law they did not rob and bank and keep the money

cazzycaz

A big gamble but i know people who have built big swanky houses without permission and gone for retention and got it. Seems to be one law for some and another law for others. Will be interesting to see what happens in two years time...something will save it i suspect.

Mike 1972

Deleted User wrote: »

your confusing civil law with criminal law

Nowhere did I specify civil or criminal law

danbohan

Mike 1972 wrote: »

So people who break the law should be allowed to keep the proceeds of their crimes ?

how could we forget , been rich in ireland is a crime , dont you just love it

[Deleted User]

cazzycaz wrote: »

A big gamble but i know people who have built big swanky houses without permission and gone for retention and got it. Seems to be one law for some and another law for others. Will be interesting to see what happens in two years time...something will save it i suspect.

That begs the question, should rentention be abolished due to the abuse?

K-9

Deleted User wrote: »

yeah exactly my point. We should have bigger houses and 6,000 sq ft + is a good thing not a bad thing who are you to tell someone else they wont use something?

Whatever, I'm sure he thought he could afford it. It worked out well for him in the end. Build it and they will come and all that.

Wonder did he read The Secret?

Mike 1972

danbohan wrote: »

how could we forget , been rich in ireland is a crime , dont you just love it

Unemployed plumber = rich ?

ricman

Google sites for sale county meath, theres a big difference between a site x and a site that has outline planning permission for a house.A house needs acess to esb, water supply etc do you think it costs the council zero to provide services to houses.
WE need planning regulations otherwise we,d have chaos plus massive environmental damage to the water supply.And theres plenty of legal sites for sale in meath or old houses that need modernisation.
if he had built an 800 sq ft house ,he might had a chance of going for retention or some sort of compromise with the council.

El Weirdo

danbohan wrote: »

how could we forget , been rich in ireland is a crime , dont you just love it

No. Being rich in Ireland is not a crime but thinking that the laws don't apply to you because you are rich is fucking retarded and I'm glad to see that this guy didn't get away with it.

ricman

i could go to my aunt and build a shack on her land with old bricks,recycled wood from buynsell ETC ,would not cost much ,it would still be against the law ,i have no planning permission.being rich he was able to build a large house,thats a side issue.

danbohan

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Unemployed plumber = rich ?

well if an unemployed plumber can build this mortgage free i wonder what an employed one could do , always said sw rates are too high in ireland !

Mike 1972

He wasnt unemployed when he built it

Do pay attention FFS

K-9

danbohan wrote: »

well if an unemployed plumber can build this mortgage free i wonder what an employed one could do , always said sw rates are too high in ireland !

Oh Good God of almighty.

He was employed, he is now unemployed.

[Deleted User]

ricman wrote: »

Google sites for sale county meath, theres a big difference between a site x and a site that has outline planning permission for a house.A house needs acess to esb, water supply etc do you think it costs the council zero to provide services to houses.
WE need planning regulations otherwise we,d have chaos plus massive environmental damage to the water supply.And theres plenty of legal sites for sale in meath or old houses that need modernisation.
if he had built an 800 sq ft house ,he might had a chance of going for retention or some sort of compromise with the council.

who wants an 800 sq ft house on land? are ya mad thats apartment size stuff

Mike 1972

Deleted User wrote: »

who wants an 800 sq ft house on land?

What are these "feet" you speak of ?

Butch Cassidy

K-9 wrote: »

There needs to be a whole sea change in attitude in this country, particularly the "well, it is ok for them attitude". That perpetuates the problem.

Well it's ok for the Buttler brothers to give payments to certain politicians. They settled some €20odd million with revenue and weren't pursued. They perjured themselves in a tribunal and weren't prosecuted. There's many like them. White collar crime is not prosecuted in this country.

starbelgrade wrote: »

Butch Cassidy;

You are confusing too many issues here - the housing lists, the ghost estates, alleged back handers & the legal issues are all valid debating points, but they have nothing to do with this case.

.

I was making a point about our mentality in our society. About how it's fair and accepted to demolish a building that could be used for the betterment of people in need. Is there not just something grotesque in this notion of "justice" here?

Doop wrote: »

How does this punishment not fit the crime????
He built something illegal now has to take it down.... makes perfect sense

If you demolish something you shouldn't of, you get ordered to re-instate
eg http://www.independent.ie/national-news/convent-demolition-may-cost-firm-8364127m-1254229.html

Our planing laws are far from perfect, but they are there for the greater good.

Take the house away from them absolutely. Then when the state owns it the state can do soemthing usefull with it.

tbh wrote: »

we already have an idiot tax. It's called the lotto.

Touché

K-9

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Well it's ok for the Buttler brothers to give payments to certain politicians. They settled some €20odd million with revenue and weren't pursued. They perjured themselves in a tribunal and weren't prosecuted. There's many like them. White collar crime is not prosecuted in this country.

True, but one thing at a time. There is a perception out there among many that you build away, even without planning and just apply for retention after. Problem sorted. That needs to end, otherwise why have planning at all?

I suppose it could be used for something else, except there is no planning for it. It shouldn't exist. The man owns the house, so the Council or whoever would need to buy it of him.

So you'd have the Council buying a house that has no planning. It's an Irish solution to an Irish problem alright!

starbelgrade

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

I was making a point about our mentality in our society. About how it's fair and accepted to demolish a building that could be used for the betterment of people in need. Is there not just something grotesque in this notion of "justice" here?

Take the house away from them absolutely. Then when the state owns it the state can do soemthing usefull with it.

Let me get this straight.... you take a house that is unsuitable for the services in the area, out of character, oversized & illegally built... you tell the owner that he can't live in it & has to move out, you pay him compensation for his troubles, and then, you give it to the "needy"?

Is that right, Ted?

God, that justice thing is madness.