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2010 Dublin Marathon- Sub 3 mentored thread

ecoli

Okay I have been approached about setting up a sub 3 mentoring thread. Before i start to issue clarification this thread is alot like Lynx ads. Just because links ads say Lynx will get you beautiful women doesnt make it a certainty. Likewise here the aim is to do are best to get you to 2.5X.XX but I cannot guarantee it.

This is geared towards the DCM and is a 18 week plan starting at 40 miles with a 4 week buildling phase getting up to 65 miles during course of plan. The plan includes 1 long run (15-20) one medium length (10-13) and culmination of hill work and marathon specific sessions @ MP and HMP

The plan will start 21st of June so anyone who is interested should be trying to hit around 40 miles coming into the plan however the fact that the first four weeks is base building gives people a chance to catch up. Anyone interested in following the plan put your name down and get to know each other. The idea behind these mentoring threads is not just to provide a training plan but also i full support in terms of encouragement and advice. I will also be here to answer questions as best i can and hopefully get a few of the Sub 3 guys from this forum to give there only insight and advice.

So put your name down and your previous best and Lets get to work:D

Name|Previous best |Mileage this week | Comments

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ecoli

ELFOYZER wrote: »

That suits me fine as I have entered the 10 mile and half in the race series.
I was thinking about running a 10k - just to hit that sub 40min goal. Don't know if this is sensible or not as my main goal is DCM. I suppose I could always give the Aware 10k a go in December. What would you recommend?

Again this is a personal thing some people feel they need a race every certain amount of time to keep them motivated. If you had one in mind you could probably swap one of the hard sessions. Again this is a mentoring thread but it is up to the people who follow it to make decisions to suit them.

ELFOYZER

That suits me fine as I have entered the 10 mile and half in the race series.
I was thinking about running a 10k - just to hit that sub 40min goal. Don't know if this is sensible or not as my main goal is DCM. I suppose I could always give the Aware 10k a go in December. What would you recommend?

smmoore79

ecoli wrote: »

In the plan i have the 10 mile and the half from the race series already worked into the schedule but more could be incorporated. With the training especially for the marathon i feel that the importance of racing frequently is not as important as in say middle distance racing etc. The training will be able to give you a good indication of your shape as you go along

Hi Ecoli, I do a fair bit of BHAA runs. These vary from 5km to 10km and are on every 2 weeks or so. For marathon training do you think it wise to drop these races due to them being short and replace them with the midweek tempo run that I would otherwise have done? or drop the tempo and race midweek? As i said before they are only every 2/3 weeks so wouldnt be replacing tempo runs every week....

smmoore79

ELFOYZER wrote: »

Nearly all of my running on concrete/tarmac. Even when running in the Phoenix Park I tend to stay on the road/paths. The unevenness of trails and risk of twisting an ankle puts me off!
I run in 2150's and they probably help minimise impact/stress injury. I rotate and change runners regularly which is probably no harm either.

Wow, all road/concrete?! Id imagaine that would be pretty hard on the legs as opposed to trail/grass. I was under the impression that the unevenness of trail helps develop different parts of the leg muscles that repetitive road running wouldnt. Though yes there is a risk of injury if ya dont look where youre going..

ecoli

cunavalos wrote: »

I think i may have misinterpreted the strides on todays run. i did them in the middle of the run with a 60 second recovery at easy pace between each set and then returned to steady pace for rest of run.

Also ecoli what is your attitude to racing during the program as there are probably 3-4 races i would normally do during the course of this program. is it possible to build these into the program. What are the other runners doing with regard to racing.

In the plan i have the 10 mile and the half from the race series already worked into the schedule but more could be incorporated. With the training especially for the marathon i feel that the importance of racing frequently is not as important as in say middle distance racing etc. The training will be able to give you a good indication of your shape as you go along

ecoli

kaymin wrote: »

Was a little concerned going out to train tonight as the top of my achilles tendon felt tight / tender. Lots of stretching seemed to do the job and I didn't feel it during the run. I'm expecting a few niggles given the increase in mileage involved with following this program - just need to listen to the body!

Be sensible about the mileage the ideal scenario was to build to this mileage before the program started but if you are not able to do this then take this into account when training and cut back the mileage a bit. Rushing the mileage can lead to injury. Better to do a little, alot, than do loads at the start and being forced to have time off due to injury. One option here is to hit the bike to make up the difference. This can develop aerobic capacity while keeping the injury risk down till your body adapts with the increase in mileage and will allow you to build the running miles slower

ELFOYZER

smmoore79 wrote: »

Quick question for all sub 3 wanabee's. What surfaces would you generaly run on? All Grass, all road, all trail, a mix? Would some of you not go near road until the marathon itself? My current route takes in a few miles of raod, a few miles of grass/trail and a mile of sand. Am hoping the general mix i do will minimise injury whilst getting my body used to concrete/tarmac...

Nearly all of my running on concrete/tarmac. Even when running in the Phoenix Park I tend to stay on the road/paths. The unevenness of trails and risk of twisting an ankle puts me off!
I run in 2150's and they probably help minimise impact/stress injury. I rotate and change runners regularly which is probably no harm either.

donothoponpop

smmoore79 wrote: »

Quick question for all sub 3 wanabee's. What surfaces would you generaly run on? All Grass, all road, all trail, a mix? Would some of you not go near road until the marathon itself? My current route takes in a few miles of raod, a few miles of grass/trail and a mile of sand. Am hoping the general mix i do will minimise injury whilst getting my body used to concrete/tarmac...

Currently 40%tarmac/60%trail(grass, forest, fireroad, mountain). I think a good mix is better for less impact/repetitive stress, and will minimise injury, as you say. Will be upping the amount of road (and the flatness) as the training continues to closer to 70%/30%. This will help give a better idea of how pace is turning out- its very hard to judge when slogging up a mucky hill! I found it hard on the legs when running Rotterdam, as I wasn't used to the flatness, although Dublin is a bit hillier in that respect.

smmoore79

Quick question for all sub 3 wanabee's. What surfaces would you generaly run on? All Grass, all road, all trail, a mix? Would some of you not go near road until the marathon itself? My current route takes in a few miles of raod, a few miles of grass/trail and a mile of sand. Am hoping the general mix i do will minimise injury whilst getting my body used to concrete/tarmac...

cunavalos

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy; 8 miles easy|18| 7.5 miles very hilly 400m+ ascent, 66mins, incl 4x200 strides

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides; 8 miles easy|24|Started Monday

ELFOYZER|3.29|6M steady (7:20/M);11M easy (8:00/M)|18|no strides

cunavalos|n/a|8 miles easy; 6miles incl 4 x 200m strides|14|strides included in run

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

I think i may have misinterpreted the strides on todays run. i did them in the middle of the run with a 60 second recovery at easy pace between each set and then returned to steady pace for rest of run.

Also ecoli what is your attitude to racing during the program as there are probably 3-4 races i would normally do during the course of this program. is it possible to build these into the program. What are the other runners doing with regard to racing.

donothoponpop

kaymin

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy|10| 8.1miles @ 7.23 av. Hilly 250m ascent

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides; 8 miles easy|24|Started Monday

ELFOYZER|3.29|6M steady (7:20/M);11M easy (8:00/M)|18|no strides

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Was a little concerned going out to train tonight as the top of my achilles tendon felt tight / tender. Lots of stretching seemed to do the job and I didn't feel it during the run. I'm expecting a few niggles given the increase in mileage involved with following this program - just need to listen to the body!

misty floyd

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy|10| 8.1miles @ 7.23 av. Hilly 250m ascent

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides|16|Started Monday

ELFOYZER|3.29|6M steady (7:20/M);11M easy (8:00/M)|18|no strides

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

I gotta sign out of this thread for the moment. I thought my hamstring injury, which has been at me for a good 7 weeks now had cleared up so I went to test it last night with some quicker stuff. Today its quite sore and I'm limping.

I just can't commit to a marathon right now. Will still follow the progress, best of luck with things folks. Cheers Ecoli.

ELFOYZER

ecoli

kaymin wrote: »

Am going by feel on my runs at the moment as I wrecked my Garmin - will be getting a new one shortly. Probably did the runs too fast. Started Monday as I'll miss a days training later in the week.

If running by feel, a good indicator is the "talk test" basically if you can hold a conversation without a strain while running at a decent pace you should be okay. Again this plan is flexible to cope with life's curveballs and can be mixed around the main thing is that your "big days" should be spaced out enough to let you body recover. Training is "stress and adaptation" in order to adapt the body must have sufficient time to recover and strengthen. Think of the basic priinciple of weight training in the fact that you dont do too much to often for maximum effect

kaymin

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy|10| 8.1miles @ 7.23 av. Hilly 250m ascent

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|8 miles easy; 6 miles steady +4 x 200m strides|16|Started Monday

ELFOYZER|3.29|||

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Am going by feel on my runs at the moment as I wrecked my Garmin - will be getting a new one shortly. Probably did the runs too fast. Started Monday as I'll miss a days training later in the week.

ecoli

donothoponpop wrote: »

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy|10| 8.1miles @ 7.23 av. Hilly 250m ascent

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|||

ELFOYZER|3.29|||

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Thrilled to get underway. Started off a little fast, after a few days rest, found it hot, and tough enough at the end, probably went a bit too fast for an "easy" run.

This is okay in the early stages as there is room for this. The fact that there are so many easy low intensity runs means that the body has sufficient time to recover. Take this as your steady day if it was more the paces if that you would have used in that training. The idea at this early stage is to develop the aerobic base to be able to cope with the later sessions without over stressing the body to the point where it breaks down and is counter productive

donothoponpop

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|8 miles easy|10| 8.1miles @ 7.23 av. Hilly 250m ascent

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|||

ELFOYZER|3.29|||

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Thrilled to get underway. Started off a little fast, after a few days rest, found it hot, and tough enough at the end, probably went a bit too fast for an "easy" run.

hunnymonster

I'm not ready to put my name on a list as Dublin is too soon for me to hit the dizzying speeds of sub-3 but I'm going to follow this thread carefully with the hope of implementing the training and advice over the winter. Another vote of thanks from me to Ecoli for taking the time out to look after us.

Reaganomical

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|||

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|||

ELFOYZER|3.29|||

cunavalos|n/a|||

Schnellimbiss |n/a|||

Gonna take the plunge - first marathon but something to aim for over the next four months. Fair play to Ecoli for starting the thread.

cunavalos

ecoli

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|||

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|||

ELFOYZER|3.29|||

Updated list

ecoli

ELFOYZER wrote: »

e-coli,

I'm not a regular 'boardsie' but I've just found this sub-3 mentoring thread and am very keen on the idea of it.
I have been following Daniels' marathon plan but would consider switching to your mentored plan. Generally, I've found that training books are great but they lack the feedback from what I believe will be a very interesting thread.

My current race PB's are a little slow for a sub-3 marathon, but I believe I will be close on the day and will give it socks in training.:eek:

10k - 41:34 (Phoenix Park)- Will break 40' this summer
Half Mar - 1:34:00 (Kildare)- ran this 6 days after 10k pb, could run faster - ran with 1:30 pacers for 12k
Marathon - 3:29:00 (DCM 2008)*
(*Ran 3:43 in DCM2009, on very little marathon specific training)

Is it ok if I hop on with you guys?

Cheers,

elf

The more the merrier for anyone who wants to joining no need to ask just throw your name down on the table and make yourself known to the others. Regarding the schedule even for people who feel they might be a bit off the 3 hr pace the schedule can be used just small adjustments to paces on the sessions which if people have any questions about just ask.
Welcome on board and the best of luck with the training

ELFOYZER

e-coli,

I'm not a regular 'boardsie' but I've just found this sub-3 mentoring thread and am very keen on the idea of it.
I have been following Daniels' marathon plan but would consider switching to your mentored plan. Generally, I've found that training books are great but they lack the feedback from what I believe will be a very interesting thread.

My current race PB's are a little slow for a sub-3 marathon, but I believe I will be close on the day and will give it socks in training.:eek:

10k - 41:34 (Phoenix Park)- Will break 40' this summer
Half Mar - 1:34:00 (Kildare)- ran this 6 days after 10k pb, could run faster - ran with 1:30 pacers for 12k
Marathon - 3:29:00 (DCM 2008)*
(*Ran 3:43 in DCM2009, on very little marathon specific training)

Is it ok if I hop on with you guys?

Cheers,

elf

ecoli

Name|Previous best |Sessions completed|Mileage this week | Comments |

donothoponpop|3:10|||

smmoore79| 3.10|||

Speedy44|3:26|||

misty floyd|3:00|||

kaymin|n/a|||

Updated list

ecoli

Okay let it begin!

Name|Previous best |Mileage this week | Comments
donothoponpop|3:10|40|
smmoore79| 3.10||
Speedy44|3:26|47|On the way:)
misty floyd|3:00|32.3|

This is not a locked thread or members only people are able to come and go the dont even have to follow the plan to contribute this is more about people with a common goal coming together to share in the highs and the lows in order to help each other to get to the finish line (hopefully in 2.XX.XX)

So here is the first week
Week 1
Monday Rest
Tuesday8 miles easy
Wednesday 6 miles steady + 4 x 200m strides
Thursday8 miles easy
Friday 4 miles easy
Saturday 7 miles easy
Sunday 10 miles easy (hilly course if possible)

Total weekly mileage: 43

For the purpose of the plan i have assigned monday as the day of rest as it will follow the LSR. The reason Sunday has been set aside for the LSR is just with people working the weekend is the most suitable time for most. This schedule can be changed around to suit peoples lives

I would also encourage people to supplement these runs with 2-3 miles at recovery pace in mornings 3-4 times a week and also optionally on the rest days (or evenings depending on when they run their main scheduled days training) This is not compulsory and the reasons for not putting it on the schedule is i know peoples commitments in other aspects of their lives makes this hard to do.

Regarding paces. I dont like giving exact figures for this my main advice would be to use common sense. here are some rough guidelines but not to be taken as gospel

Recovery run :1 min to 1 min 30 slower than MP
Easy Run: 30 secs to 50 secs slower than MP
Steady Run: 15 - 30 sec slower than MP

Again use the old noggin here most of you are experienced enough to know what kinda paces to be hitting

Regarding strides the should be roughly 5k pace with full walk recovery. You should not feel tired with these.

:)Best of luck to everyone:):)

kaymin

Name|Previous best |Mileage this week | Comments

donothoponpop|3:10|40|

smmoore79| 3.10||

Speedy44|3:26|47|On the way

misty floyd|3:00|32.3|

kaymin|n/a|7|

Goes against all the rules to try for a sub-3 hour marathon for the first try but I plan to do only one marathon ever so I want to make it a good one.

Very low mileage this week because running is not my main sport but that'll change for the next 4 months.

I'm not a complete novice....did the Kildare half in 1:24 last month with very haphazard running training so I'm hopeful of achieving the target by following ecoli's plan.

donothoponpop

@ ecoli: each week at a time suits me, although happy to see whats down the road too.

@asimonov: no 5Kpb, 40:40 10k, 1:28 half. Hope to destroy the 10k one in a couple of months.

asimonov

best of luck lads. i look forward to seeing the progress through the next 18 weeks - as a baseline i would love to know your current 5k / 10k / 1/2 marathon PB's.

ecoli

SUNGOD wrote: »

would love to get involved but after 12 months of injury im way off the pace at the moment.
but i will still be checking regularly to see what kind of sessions etc everyone is doing.
best of luck to everyone doing this and to ecoli in setting this up
hopefully i will join ye next year

Best of luck getting back into things hopefully ya will get back to fighting form before too long