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The Catholic / Protestant Debate Megathread

PDN

New mega thread time!

We're sick of the board being taken over by numerous threads where the same rather tired arguments and entrenched positions keep getting rehearsed over and over again.

So, if Protestants and Roman Catholics want to debate the merits of their respective positions this is the place to do it. Any new threads started for this purpose will be locked.

It is OK, in other threads, to say "as a non-Catholic I believe this" or "as a Catholic I don't believe this". That's fine, and people can note your position. But once it moves into arguing against Protestantism or against Catholicism then this is the thread to bring it to.

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Fanny Cradock

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

Oh, I meant in the mod-lounge sense, Fanny. (That jewel-bedecked place with 50" flat-screen tv's and as much tea and triangle sandwiches as you can handle... ) I just think there's a Catholic voice/perspective needed there sometimes.

Then I think you misunderstand the role of mod. I don't push a non-denominational agenda in my role as mod. Likewise, PDN doesn't push a Pentecostal agenda. It is worth repeating: Mods are here to make sure the charter is kept and to oversee the smooth running of day-to-day business. That is all.

JimiTime

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

^I think there are occasions when it would be helpful having a Catholic viewpoint on issues.

What on earth has that got to do with Mods

A catholic poster is always free to give their viewpoint. Put 'Catholic Only' in the subject, and I'm sure they'll give their viewpoint even quicker.

Have you actually thought this through and questioned HOW having a catholic Mod will mean more catholic discussion? Its the same posters, giving the same posts etc.

Also, my use of the term Protestant is a valid one.

Indeed it is from a dictionary POV, but it is unfortunately a pretty meaningless term when you consider that it simply a christian who's 'not a catholic'. You cannot say 'what does a protestant believe'? So its useless.

hinault

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Then I think you misunderstand the role of mod. I don't push a non-denominational agenda in my role as mod. Likewise, PDN doesn't push a Pentecostal agenda. It is worth repeating: Mods are here to make sure the charter is kept and to oversee the smooth running of day-to-day business. That is all.

I understand, Craddock.

I personally do not have a problem with any of the mods and their point of view/beliefs as regards the forum.

I am simply making the point that I find it surprising that there isn't even one moderator, who is RC.

JimiTime

hinault wrote: »

.

I am simply making the point that I find it surprising that there isn't even one moderator, who is RC.

Why is it surprising? Most of the posters who frequent this forum are not Catholics, so by probability alone its not surprising that there are no RC mods. Up until fairly recently, Kelly1 was the only regular catholic poster.

hinault

JimiTime wrote: »

Why is it surprising? Most of the posters who frequent this forum are not Catholics, so by probability alone its not surprising that there are no RC mods. Up until fairly recently, Kelly1 was the only regular catholic poster.

Several posters currently are RC's and they contribute here.

Can't speak about the past demographics of this section of the Forum.

I would hope that it is not a deliberate policy not to select moderators who are RC.

lmaopml

JimiTime wrote: »

Why is it surprising? Most of the posters who frequent this forum are not Catholics, so by probability alone its not surprising that there are no RC mods. Up until fairly recently, Kelly1 was the only regular catholic poster.

Exactly the point JimiTime! Just 'one'....I wonder why?
..and see what happens when a few more Catholics post! We get told the 'regulars' are tired of us..pml...

It's not like that's all the new Catholic posters said either; they put forward valid points when they were asked questions, not just 'We are the one true Church blahdeblah'......and made a challenge as to the dynamic of the board.......

...and we got a 'mega thread' just for us...

Fanny Cradock

hinault wrote: »

I would hope that it is not a deliberate policy not to select moderators who are RC.

No, it's not.

JimiTime

hinault wrote: »

I would hope that it is not a deliberate policy not to select moderators who are RC.

:rolleyes:

owenc

Vinny-Chase wrote: »

I have to say one thing I am really surprised at on this forum is there is a lot of anti-Protestant remarks. And I'm Catholic!

Yea and i can't see why they are like that, i thought that no one cared about religion down south like they do up here but i guess thats definitely wrong!

Fanny Cradock

owenc wrote: »

Yea and i can't see why they are like that, i thought that no one cared about religion down south like they do up here but i guess thats definitely wrong!

Well, I would say that it generally isn't as polarising round these parts. Internet forums tend to be an exception.

owenc

hinault wrote: »

They're Protestant?

I didn't know this.

Why are there no Roman Catholic moderators on this category?

Who cares what bloody religion they are, IT DOSN"T MATTER, ITS NOT GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!:rolleyes:

PDN

lmaopml wrote: »

Exactly the point JimiTime! Just 'one'....I wonder why?
..and see what happens when a few more Catholics post! We get told the 'regulars' are tired of us..pml....

You got told no such thing. The mods are tired of arguments going on in multiple threads as to whether Protestantism or Catholicism is right. So we are equally as tired of the Protestants engaging in sush threads as we are of the Catholics.

..and we got a 'mega thread' just for us..

No you didn't. That is totally untrue.

We got a megathread for Protestant/Catholic arguments - so by definition that makes it 50% Protestant and 50% Catholic. :rolleyes:

So put your persecution complex away please.

vodafoneproblem

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Then I think you misunderstand the role of mod. I don't push a non-denominational agenda in my role as mod. Likewise, PDN doesn't push a Pentecostal agenda. It is worth repeating: Mods are here to make sure the charter is kept and to oversee the smooth running of day-to-day business. That is all.

I know you and PDN do your best to keep the peace here, and sometimes it's not easy, especially with the odd trouble-maker dropping by. However, sometimes Catholics have been told to hush up a bit here just for giving their view on things and so I think a Catholic perspective from a mod would help everybody feel able to express their views without fear.

JimiTime

lmaopml wrote: »

Exactly the point JimiTime! Just 'one'....I wonder why?

Well why do YOU think? Is it more persecution complex?

..and see what happens when a few more Catholics post! We get told the 'regulars' are tired of us..pml...

Where were you told that the regulars were 'Tired of you'?

It's not like that's all the new Catholic posters said either; they put forward valid points when they were asked questions, not just 'We are the one true Church blahdeblah'......and made a challenge as to the dynamic of the board.......

What?? This is a discussion forum, the dynamic of which changes regularly. I have had heated debate with PDN, FC etc. What we have had recently, and it is being carried on here is the notion that there is some kind of conspiracy against RC's. Funnily enough, it seems that most RC's that come here say that at some point, yet its RC's who are the only people trying to force their particular brand on others as the 'One True Church'. Lets call a spade a spade, if all this One true church stuff stopped, there would be no mega thread. i mean whats the point in contantly harping on about such things when you know that your audience does not agree with you? Its like using the bible to show an atheist they're wrong about morals. You are appealing to something that holds no sway. Now, here, there is a place for Catholics to show how they are the true church, and for others to show that they aren't. It means the topic wont creep into other threads again.

...and we got a 'mega thread' just for us...

No, EVERYONE got a megathread for matters pertaining to the discussion of the differences between Catholics and Protestants. Why do you only see that as a Catholic thing? Is that perhaps a bit of paranoia or maybe a persecution complex?

lmaopml

PDN, I don't see why a couple of warnings couldn't be issued. Actually I witnessed one, and the poster apologised....and we all moved on like grown ups.

Then the debates got closed and we all got lumped in together in order to speak about a number of different topics...! both Protestants who were curious of our position and wanted clarity, and Catholic posters who were replying, yes it got 'lively' but certainly not out of hand - and now we must use the 'one' thread...

...and the Cherry on the top is the clincher that the regs are sick of hearing that from a Catholic position we believe we are the one true church..

Jeewiz just ignore it, or report it - what's with the baby tactics...

JimiTime

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

I know you and PDN do your best to keep the peace here, and sometimes it's not easy, especially with the odd trouble-maker dropping by. However, sometimes Catholics have been told to hush up a bit here just for giving their view on things and so I think a Catholic perspective from a mod would help everybody feel able to express their views without fear.

TBH, these insinuations have gone far enough IMO. Provide instances where Catholics have been singled out for simply expressing their opinion or take your insinuations back. That is the only honourable thing to do IMO.

PDN

lmaopml wrote: »

PDN, I don't see why a couple of warnings couldn't be issued. Actually I witnessed one, and the poster apologised....and we all moved on like grown ups.

Warnings are issued when people breach, or come close to breaching the Charter. The new megathread makes no difference to that, as normal Charter and forum rules apply.

But what is frustrating is when you have the same old arguments multiplying across four threads at once - including hijacking what could otherwise be useful discussions. That's why we have a creationism megathread, a clerical child abuse megathread, and now a Protestant/Catholic megathread.

...and the Cherry on the top is the clincher that the regs are sick of hearing that from a Catholic position we believe we are the one true church.

I've only seen one person (Jimitime) say that they are sick of that - and, while he is entitled to his opinion, it has no bearing on any moderating decisions.

Jeewiz just ignore it, or report it - what's with the baby tactics...

The only baby tactics I'm seeing is a bit of whining about a moderating decision.

JimiTime

lmaopml wrote: »

PDN, I don't see why a couple of warnings couldn't be issued. Actually I witnessed one, and the poster apologised....and we all moved on like grown ups.

Then the debates got closed and we all got lumped in together in order to speak about a number of different topics...! both Protestants who were curious of our position and wanted clarity, and Catholic posters who were replying, yes it got 'lively' but certainly not out of hand - and now we must use the 'one' thread...

...and the Cherry on the top is the clincher that the regs are sick of hearing that from a Catholic position we believe we are the one true church..

Jeewiz just ignore it, or report it - what's with the baby tactics...

Actually, apart from the little sly digs about baby tactics, I think you have a point. I think this megathread is much too generic. I think the issue here is a simple one, Its the 'One true church' assertion. IMO, thats the thread that should be created. All this 'We want a catholic mod etc is just nonsense stuff.

What think all of yee?

vodafoneproblem

Jimi, you're getting very personal and aggressive in your comments to me on this thread. I don't want to point out the instances you're demanding of me because I'd rather keep the discussion general.

Edit: I feel you're trying to push me to have a go at, and get into conflict with, the mods, and I'm not biting. As for your personal and aggressive comments to me, the evidence is there for everyone to see on this thread.

JimiTime

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

Jimi, you're getting very personal and aggressive in your comments to me on this thread. I don't want to point out the instances you're demanding of me because I'd rather keep the discussion general.

More baseless rubbish. You have made accusations against the mods of this forum without providing backup, Now you have accused me of being personal and aggressive without foundation. Your idea of keeping things general seems to just let you make pronouncements about people, and when they ask you to provide backup you accuse them of being personal. So do the honourable thing, and provide backup for your accusations or take them back. It is entirely reasonable for me to ask this.

You either have something to back you up, or you don't. What would you say if I accused you of being aggressive towards protestants? Would you not expect some form of evidence to back up such an accusation?

PDN

OK, guys, let's calm it down.

I think everyone understands the purpose of this thread. The decision has been made, and anyone wishing to discuss that moderating decision further can discuss it with myself, Fanny or asiaprod via PM.

If anyone is unhappy with the overall composition of the moderators then please address your concerns to the CatMods or take it to Feedback.

JimiTime

PDN wrote: »

I've only seen one person (Jimitime) say that they are sick of that - and, while he is entitled to his opinion, it has no bearing on any moderating decisions.

Did I say I was sick of it?

JimiTime

PDN wrote: »

OK, guys, let's calm it down.

I think everyone understands the purpose of this thread. The decision has been made, and anyone wishing to discuss that moderating decision further can discuss it with myself, Fanny or asiaprod via PM.

If anyone is unhappy with the overall composition of the moderators then please address your concerns to the CatMods or take it to Feedback.

TBH, I am very calm, and I would appreciate Vodafoneproblem back up his accusations. I'm sure he'll welcome the chance to show how I'm aggressive and personal with him, and how catholics are told to hush in this forum as per his posts. Its a simple request, he's either got evidence or he doesn't. It will benefit me if he shows me that I'm being personal and aggressive and that Catholics are told to hush up on these boards, and it will benefit him if he is brought to realise that he's made baseless accusations. I certainly don't mind the taste of humble pie, and will be only too happy to eat it.

ballsymchugh

to the whole Catholic v Protestant thing, i refer you to this thread.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055779000

this was about the Cathedral in Longford that burned down on Christmas day. if you read the first few pages, you'd find that apart from the people who were local to the town, the Protestant posters were the only ones really sympathising with what happened (mainly Jakkass!). as for Graces7, who came across like a researcher for Alive!, i'm still trying to figure out what she was on.

one of the first people down to the Cathedral on that morning was the local Methodist minister. i think it's great that when a lot of people are bothered about educating their kids in a non-denominational school because they fear the indoctrination etc, or whether a hospital should have a certain ethos, there are some communities that just get on with being just that, a community.
now i'm just rambling.

owenc

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

I know you and PDN do your best to keep the peace here, and sometimes it's not easy, especially with the odd trouble-maker dropping by. However, sometimes Catholics have been told to hush up a bit here just for giving their view on things and so I think a Catholic perspective from a mod would help everybody feel able to express their views without fear.

Well i would have tosay that they are very winding sometimes and try their best to prove that they are right not excepting anyone elses opinions and always bringing up the same old lines about their church being the first church

lmaopml

JimiTime wrote: »

Indeed it is from a dictionary POV, but it is unfortunately a pretty meaningless term when you consider that it simply a christian who's 'not a catholic'. You cannot say 'what does a protestant believe'? So its useless.

That's exactly it Jimi. It's in the 'title' of the thread; essentially it means - that anybody who wants to discuss the merits of their faith, whether they are any other Christian denomination, who have their own sets of beliefs, with specifically a Roman Catholic which is only 'one' Christian denomination, does it 'here'.

I just think it's not really gonna work and is just a little unfair on those of us who try to keep within the charter ( may skirt along it's edges the odd time..lol...like a few others ) but generally just want to chat? No? There are more than only Catholics here who believe their outlook is the bees knees and the spiders ankles too...

Anyway, I know I'm skirting the edges myself at the moment, but there ya go....

We'll see I guess...

philologos

lmaopml wrote: »

That's exactly it Jimi. It's in the 'title' of the thread; essentially it means - that anybody who wants to discuss the merits of their faith, whether they are any other Christian denomination, who have their own sets of beliefs, with specifically a Roman Catholic which is only 'one' Christian denomination, does it 'here'.

Orthodox are not considered to be Protestant, they also make up a large % of the worldwide Christian population.

The problem is that discussion about the merits of the RCC versus any other church and counter arguments as to why such views aren't reasonable have began to dominate the forum, and not only that the same views are being repeated ad-infinitum. It is best to confine it to one thread rather than to have it sour all discussion.

StealthRolex

PDN wrote: »

And don't forget Asiaprod who, despite his name, is a Buddhist!

I noticed in another thread that a poster was labelled 'anti-Catholic' because they questioned Church policies - that is, to be honest, pretty paranoid.

There's a world of difference, as Jimi has noted, between pointing out areas where we may disagree and aggressively attacking everyone who doesn't agree with you.

With all due respect PDN in another thread a posters rhetoric was described as being anti-catholic initially and then a qualification of what would constitute an anti-catholic position was later provided. Another poster took it upon themselves to presume that they were being labelled and persisted with this attitude despite being advised to the contrary.

But one gets uses to misrepresentation and semantic twisting around here. It's enough to make anyone paranoid

lmaopml

Hi Jackass,

I understand that can be frustrating, and truth be told I often cringe if it's ott, however, there are equally frustrating things for us and I know the mods do their best...although it's probably difficult to see from different perspectives at times when people are being covertly coercive..

We'll see I guess if it makes the board better..

There are just so many topics that could end up in here, not just 'one' topic...and so few Catholics..lol...

The 'noise' :eek:

lmaopml

Bty, it would be nice to see a few more orthodox

join in too..Haven't seen many of them abouts either..