While good news for women at the moment, this gender gap has potentially huge implications for Ireland, Inc. The graph below shows the ratio of women to men at work for three key demographics between the ages of 20 and 44. As you can see, the general trend is upwards – itself not a concern if it represents a long-term normalisation of the labour market, with more women in paid employment for more of their careers. However, what is a concern is the fact that, among Ireland’s 20-somethings, men can no longer find a job. There are now 25% more women at work in the 20-24 age group than men. An Ireland where young men can’t get a job is likely to become before too long an Ireland with significant emigration of young men. Already there are 70,000 fewer men under 35 in Ireland than two years ago. The result is that there are now more women in Ireland between the ages of 20 and 34 than there are men – the key household-forming age. And an Ireland where men are leaving is likely to see some women follow them too.
Dr Galen wrote: » Any chance of some examples? Like proper examples, not just wooly rhetoric Via.
The Corinthian wrote: » Still woolly rhetoric old chap. I'm not suggesting that you are wrong, but you are not really proving your point. For example, the romcom Knocked Up shares many of the same misindrist qualities as the works of those you cited, however it also has misogynist undertones in that it portrays women - pregnant ones in particular - as really needing a man to make their lives whole. For much of this to be an conspiracy you need to demonstrate the motivation - one that primarily seeks to degrade or diminish men - and you've not. Instead, Occham's razor would likely point to a simpler solution, that the female market seeks this kind of tripe and these guys are guilty of little more than greed. Certainly the political climate favours the empowerment of women at the expense of men, but that is much less a conspiracy and more a fashion. A conspiracy would be a conscious attempt to maintain this climate, and while I think this may well be found in certain feminist organizations, I would not confuse them with those who in turn are really just following said climate when they make such objectionable works as Sex & the City 2. So I suggest you test your suspicions better so that you don't confuse the conspirators with those who are unwitting pawns.
The Corinthian wrote: » For much of this to be an conspiracy you need to demonstrate the motivation - one that primarily seeks to degrade or diminish men - and you've not. Instead, Occham's razor would likely point to a simpler solution, that the female market seeks this kind of tripe and these guys are guilty of little more than greed
CDfm wrote: » I happen to agree with your razor like logic. Remove conspiracy and replace it with spin, PR & censorship. The late actress Farrah Fawcett is remembered for her role as a victim of domestic violence in the movie "Burning Bed" and was quite active in promoting her image as an activist. In real life, she was a perpetrator and was arrested as a perpetrator. Its a business, and we buy into the good gal/bad guy or smart/stupid portrayal and thats what sells. Media follows fashion and stereotype. Real life isnt like that The female wrestler Tia Williams AKA the Awesome Kong is a former Social Worker as well as being involved in a vending machine business. In addition to her wrestling career she is involved in a natural skin care business & she is pictured here Who would play her in a movie probably someone like this Now the real woman is probably a lot more interesting than any portrayal of her in a movie would ever be.
Klingon Hamlet wrote: » Til the cause is shared, the fight will go on endlessly for men and for women.
Via wrote: » Another brilliant example of how statistics are manipulated to portray women as the victims. Devastating evidence, once again, that there certainly is need for gender equality.
taconnol wrote: » The main reason for the greater number of male redundancies in the last 3 years is that more men work in the construction sector - simple. No conspiracy.
amacachi wrote: » Yup, a free market and people paying for the short-term decisions they made earlier, absolutely fine, it should apply everywhere, not just when it's men getting the brunt.
taconnol wrote: » I wouldn't agree at all. The article I linked to suggested we're storing up some serious economic and social issues by ignoring the imbalance in employment. I don't understand the logic of just "leaving it to the market" when we can do something about it. The market is there to serve us, not the other way around.
taconnol wrote: » The market is there to serve us, not the other way around.
The Corinthian wrote: » Well, actually you'll find it is the other way around - it's called the law of supply and demand (coincidentally the only 'law' in economics). There have been many attempts - of differing competence and effectiveness - at manipulating the market, through the use of fiscal and monetary instruments, but none is perfect.
taconnol wrote: » But let's face it - we as a society are happy enough to tweak things in favour of perceived disadvantages for women and other sections of society and I see no reason why we should not do the same for men.
taconnol wrote: » Oh sure but the basic market mechanism is only as good as the framework within which it operates. Attempts to alter that framework should be made to address flaws as we see them (although flaws will always remain because we are all human).
But let's face it - we as a society are happy enough to tweak things in favour of perceived disadvantages for women and other sections of society and I see no reason why we should not do the same for men.
The Corinthian wrote: » However, as I inferred to amacachi, such tweaking will no occur without pressure and that pressure does not really exist. The 'mens rights movement' is a fractured and ineffectual collection of one-issue groups who have little in common and often even oppose each other. Even if theoretically they could be brought together, they hold little support amongst a disaffected but ultimately indifferent male population.
CDfm wrote: » If you take the Doctor training issue - academically women qualify as students but on service delivery -may leave the market or not participate fully in it as a result of family circumstances. So the question that poses for me is how do you correct that.
CDfm wrote: » Just for argument sake, it takes seven years to train a doctor and so they qualify at 25 and retire 65. If they take ten years off for whatever you are only getting them for 75% of their time. How would you tackle that, Taconnal, without getting lynched.
metrovelvet wrote: » You dont need mens movements and you dont need womens movements.
taconnol wrote: » Yes, this is where the politics of it becomes key. And to be engaged in the political system you have to understand that system and understand what you're trying to achieve. And that in turn involves education and organisation.
And key to this is also getting men to understand that women don't have a monopoly on deciding who stays at home with the kids.
metrovelvet wrote: » You dont need mens movements and you dont need womens movements. You need to create employment. You need to change the leaving cert system and make it a cummulative evaluation in which people can choose their careers when they are adults [after 18 when they are in university] and not when they are still wearing [schoolboy/schoolgirl uniforms.]
taconnol wrote: » Well I would ask the question why do so many women leave? As The Corinthian referred to above, many of the "rights" that women gained can inadvertently limit them in other ways.
And key to this is also getting men to understand that women don't have a monopoly on deciding who stays at home with the kids. It's also about challenging stigma and negative cultural stereotypes of men who do choose to be more than just a wallet to their kids.
Well, in that case, you should discuss it in terms of families with children vs families with no children. Families with no children don't have to take time off like families with children. But then you can't plan for these things sometimes - people change careers, people get sick, it's part of life.
