mcmickey wrote: » ( BTW, yourself and Fred seem to be a mirror image of one another. )
As many as 6 million people in the UK have an Irish grandfather or grandmother, which entitles them to claim citizenship in the Republic. The same generous regulations have traditionally allowed the Irish football team to draw on a wide reserve of talenthttp://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/sep/13/britishidentity.travelnews.
MarchDub wrote: » All his children died before he did. Patrick Bronte had distanced himself from his own family while still in Ireland. He was one of 10 children. He left them at 16 and became a tutor elsewhere in county Down. Some years later he got a chance to go to over to Cambridge and become a clergyman and took it- he was in the mid 20s by then. Many, many Irish born authors are included on the English language curriculum in Universities around the world. James Joyce is probably the most consistent in this. Certainly on US campuses.
CDfm wrote: » THere are Bronte relativeshttp://users.aristotle.net/~gblane/genealogy/hbronte.html But i am still interested in the money question - more out of fun than anything.
Fratton Fred wrote: » I haven't been educated in Ireland, but I have lived here for four years and I find Irish History to be fascinating. The trouble is, it is incredibly politicised and there are so many "Facts" that are appear to have been created or at least spun for purely political effect.
MarchDub wrote: » That is not something unique to Ireland. "History" is frequently used to bolster the status quo in many countries - especially those under Colonial rule and in post revolutionary phases. The colonial power has one version and the colonized another. Getting the narrative straight - searching out all original sources - is always a struggle in any society IMO. English history is undergoing an interesting phase and the "Whig historians" of Empire are being set side and a new narrative is emerging. I was at an English Univ during the last phase of the "Whig" version but that has since given way to a more inclusive - and broader - narrative as the realities of Empire are emerging and being accepted. And a new generation also helps.
Fratton Fred wrote: » i was thinking more of straight foward thaings that seem to be accepted into everyday Irish thinking, like the Bron in a stable quote, or Drogheda's emblem. I have heard a lot of people wh take it for granted that Guinnes was originally called Guinness's protestant porter, not realising that again, it was a name given to it by Wolfe Tone. I suppose it could all part of the Irish love of a good story.....:D
MarchDub wrote: » . It's when they are used to establish a single, unchallengeable narrative that the trouble begins - and all countries are guilty of this.
CDfm wrote: » Exactly and in the US during the Bush administration the diet of propaganda fed to the Americans unchallenged in the broadcast media reached new heights.The message being that they were welcome and popular in the middle east and their opponents were terrorists. .
MarchDub wrote: » Yes. And history is full of such incidents. Now where could we look for an Irish/British analogy to this? Mmmm....
CDfm wrote: » Like when Princess Di died flags on public buildings flew at half mast :D:D
Fratton Fred wrote: » I am much better looking!! Don't listen to McArmalite, sorry "Ultimate" male, he is convinced the whole world is ganging up on him. I haven't been educated in Ireland, but I have lived here for four years and I find Irish History to be fascinating. The trouble is, it is incredibly politicised and there are so many "Facts" that are appear to have been created or at least spun for purely political effect.
CDfm wrote: » @marchdubhttp://www.irishmidlandsancestry.com/content/offaly/people/bronte_charlotte.htm A little bit more on the Arthur Nicholls family and relatives including one who was assasintated on the orders of Michael Collins.http://www.irishmidlandsancestry.com/content/offaly/people/bronte_charlotte.htm Facinating stuff and Mr Charlotte Bronte was from a better background then the Bronte Family themselves.
MarchDub wrote: » Don't know what "British history" you might mean. From the time of the initial invasion there was an assertion of privilege by a succession of English authors - beginning with Giraldus Cambrensis and his attacks on Irish society. In trying to counter this unbalanced history - written to defend the invasion and the continued presence of the English here - there were also attempts by Irish authors to give the Irish view of things. This was a constant struggle. The four Masters and Geoffrey Keating - writing from the early 1600s - state categorically that they are writing to counteract the "lies" being told about Irish society by Elizabethan authors. Keating states that he writes "lest so honourable a land as Eire, and kindreds so noble as those who inhabit it, should pass away without mention or report of them". The fear was that Irish history was falling into the hands of the invader - and was being slanted to support the view of the conqueror. So, what's new?
indioblack wrote: » - so what's new?
CDfm wrote: » the internet :eek:
indioblack wrote: » and i pods! You can do better than that!
CDfm wrote: » Classy The Irish History I was taught was about nationalim and colonialism -there is a bit more than that to Ireland.
indioblack wrote: » Well said! But, sadly, the relatives I meet in Ireland seem to want to talk about nothing else.
indioblack wrote: » Yes, it was awful before the celtic colonisers/invaders came here and invented their own history! History was falling into the hands of the invader - so what's new?
MarchDub wrote: » Not sure what you are referring to here - but there was no "Celtic" people invasion of Ireland. That is mythology - not history.
indioblack wrote: » You mean no people came to Ireland under the umbrella term 'Celtic'?
aDeener wrote: » id bloody well prefer if the pillar was there now instead of the piece of shit that has since taken its place
MarchDub wrote: » Correct. That is mythology. Not history. The two - mythology and actual history - have been separated in Irish archeology/pre-history studies for over 50 years now. There was no so called Celtic people invasion to Ireland.
KeithAFC wrote: » Lord Nelson was a top class general. Respect to him for that.
