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After Kenny is gone

Laminations

Richard Bruton skirted around a question on Primetime of whether he has confidence in Enda Kenny, he has admitted the party is not tapping into the protest mood and getting across their views on political and economic reform. He wouldn't be drawn however on whether he'd stab Kenny in the back to become leader ( I agree with Shane Ross that he's too gentlemanly for that)

My question is, would the people calling for FG to replace Kenny then vote for FG because so many people seem to be put off by Kenny that FG under new leadership should capture 60% of the vote. Or are people just complaining and even after Kenny goes they'll find some other reason not to vote for FG?

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kenco

Lets wait and see. We have been here before with Bruton (Lee resignation for one). Still not convinced he has what it takes and the old saying of he who wields the sword never wears the crown, etc, etc. Coveney and Hayes both see themselves as the next leader and would offer a realistic alternative to FF and even Lab.

Dumping Kenny might not solve the FG issues at all (i.e. trying to tow the middle ground and court Lab).

Standing down this challenge might be the making of Kenny....

irishh_bob

sesna wrote: »

I cant believe how badly FG are f*/king themselves up, with all this focus on Kenny. FF are being let off the hook in a week when Cowen was blamed officially and independently for messing up the country, and when he was rated at his lowest ever.

I used to never understand how the electorate could vote FF back in to office again and again. It all makes sense now with whats been going on over the past few days with their friends in FG.

Richard Brutons silence over the past few days and failure to express confidence in his leader has undone years of hard work by FG on the ground and by Kenny.

I hear Brian Hayes Coveney are also behind this leadership heave.

you seem to assume that because fianna fail have buggered up the country , fine gael ( under enda kenny ) have an automatic right to walk into goverment , just because cowen is a disaster doesnt mean the electorate have to endorse kenny , why benchmark against someone like biffo

BlaasForRafa

kenco wrote: »

Lets wait and see. We have been here before with Bruton (Lee resignation for one). Still not convinced he has what it takes and the old saying of he who wields the sword never wears the crown, etc, etc. Coveney and Hayes both see themselves as the next leader and would offer a realistic alternative to FF and even Lab.

Coveney is a complete moron though. Looking through the FG front bench they have a real lack in depth (as does FF), beyond Bruton, Varadkar and perhaps Reilly they don't have many with intelligence and character enough to distinguish in government. Politics in general in Ireland is in a pretty poor state at the moment.

who_ru

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Politics in general in Ireland is in a pretty poor state at the moment.

i can remember that absolute prick McCreevy defending the high pay paid to politicians in this country compared to other jurisdictions, amongst other things he said the high level of pay was an incentive to attract the highest calibre people to political life in ireland. Holy **** i'd love to beat mcCreevy to a pulp:mad:

rightwingdub

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Politics in general in Ireland is in a pretty poor state at the moment.

If people vote for parish pump politicians simply because "they got a medical card for my mother" or "he got a new playground for the kids" then quite frankly we deserve to have politicians who don't have a clue about economics. There are idiots right across Irish politics.

The biggest idiots in Irish politics are as follws:

Fianna Fail:

Tom McElistrom (North kerry)
Mary Coughlan (Donegal North east)
Mattie McGrath (Tipp south)
Noel O'Flynn (Cork North Central)

Fine Gael:

Michael Ring (Mayo) don't even get me started on him
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath) remember his "ye let the midlands down" outburst when the government closed a barracks in Longford
Charlie Flanagan (Laois-Offaly) shows the level of talent in FG that they let that fool on the frontbench
Deirdre Clune (Cork south central) only a TD because her father was a TD in cork for years

Labour

Joan Burton- The thought of her as minister of finance is mind boggling and quite disturbing, I can't stand her whiny voice and the rubbish she comes out with.
Willie Penrose- a typical parish pump politician

There are propbably a couple of other Labour politicians who represent everything that is wrong with Irish politics, just can't think at the moment.

Sinn Fein:

Aengus O'Snodaigh- absolutely economically braindead with the crap he comes out with.

Independents

Michael Lowry- don't get me started
Jackie Healy Rae- its not even funny, there must be quite a few mentally disturbed people in Kerry South to continuously relect this medieval relic.

Be under no illusuons on the topic itself Bruton willbe just like McDowell he's best as Minister of Finance not FG leader, Varadkaar is probably too young to be leader and not enough experience but if a leadership vacancy was to arise in the next 6 years then he'd be a strong contender.

Beyond that I have absolutely no confidence in Kenny.

DublinWriter

If replacing Cowen with Lennihan is analogous to re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, then replacing Kenny with Bruton is akin to revising the snack-menu in the aft bar.

sesna

DublinWriter wrote: »

If replacing Cowen with Lennihan is analogous to re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, then replacing Kenny with Bruton is akin to revising the snack-menu in the aft bar.

And Fine Fail claiming they can get us out of this horrible mess they alone have created is analogous to the arsonist claiming he is the one best placed to put out the fire.

LoanShark

I haven't read all the posts on this..But I think that Bruton being the Leader of Fine Gael and potentially the next Taoiseach would a disaster..
For the obvious reason that he has the right head and vision for his financial role and would make a a very good minister of finance.Personally I do not like Leo Varadkar, I dont have any knowledge of him personally But when he is speaking publically I just dont feel any bond with him..I think he needs to serve a bit more time in theback bench and learn a bit more..
If Fine Gael do get an election this year they should leave Kenny at it, The man deserves his shot at the title, He is now the longest serving member in the Dail..He has done the time and should have his chance to see if he can lead the country..
I also believe that Fine Gael should change their PR people and stop making Kenny Look and Act Like he is an american politican, I think he should not have this I mean business attitude and should have more of an open and I'm prepared to work with you attitude...

And just for the record...I'm not a Fine Gael supporter..
I'm with the other crowd, Fianna Fail.

Pot Noodle =

The people have spoken that is all wake up and smell the coffee

peasant

Bruton is not leadership material ...he's a bloomin eejit.

There we have Biffo with the knife sticking in his back (the banking reports), bleeding profusely, ready for the cull.

Motion of confidence/no confidence is tabled and to run this week and what does Bruton do?

Dismantle the oppostion :rolleyes: this week of all weeks :rolleyes:

Wouldn't be surprised if he was geting backhanders from FF

T runner

who_ru wrote: »

i can remember that absolute prick McCreevy defending the high pay paid to politicians in this country compared to other jurisdictions, amongst other things he said the high level of pay was an incentive to attract the highest calibre people to political life in ireland. Holy **** i'd love to beat mcCreevy to a pulp:mad:

I think politicians here are overpaid also. However, If you think that gives you the right to threaten or assault someone: then you are even more deluded.

T runner

rightwingdub wrote: »

If people vote for parish pump politicians simply because "they got a medical card for my mother" or "he got a new playground for the kids" then quite frankly we deserve to have politicians who don't have a clue about economics. There are idiots right across Irish politics.

But politics is set up that way here. The TD is seen as the person who can do these things, thats the way it is. Its the system that creates the parish pump politicians, not the electorate.

Jackie Healy Rae- its not even funny, there must be quite a few mentally disturbed people in Kerry South to continuously relect this medieval relic.

But arguably he delivers more to the local economy than any other local politician could. Ofcourse they vote for him. Thats the system.
TDs have way too much input in local politics and too little in national politics.

jmayo

peasant wrote: »

Bruton is not leadership material ...he's a bloomin eejit.

There we have Biffo with the knife sticking in his back (the banking reports), bleeding profusely, ready for the cull.

Motion of confidence/no confidence is tabled and to run this week and what does Bruton do?

Dismantle the oppostion :rolleyes: this week of all weeks :rolleyes:

Wouldn't be surprised if he was geting backhanders from FF

The whole thing is being media driven.
Watch how much media space was given over the weekend to the FG leadership as opposed to how much was given to the fact our government is led by the guy that last week three leading economic/financial experts confirmed what we all knew about how he is hugely responsible for the mess the banks and the budget deficit is now in.

sam smyth was mouthing on over the weekend both on his own show on Sunday and on another show on Saturday about changing Kenny as leader.
Yet no peep out of him about clowen ?
Leading headline in SINDO/tribune about Kenny's leadership rather than what biffo has done.
Only paper that didn't have it as headline was IMOS.

Of all weeks for certain FGers to be doing this they pick the week that ff/yellows are in crisis what with cowen's responsibility being copperfastened in print and poor ould gormless not being told what bills were being pushed by ff before the summer recess.

Bruton has a lot to answer for his timing.
Lookout for the abvious characters like deasy and crieghton that are behind him.
Both of these would know they have a snowballs chance in hell of getting job under Kenny as toaiseach.

Bruton is good when talking about finance and I reckon would make great minister, but how is he at dragging his ar** around geeing up the troops ?
How is he at listening to others opinions, if he is leader ?
Remember he is probably the main reason poor ould georgie boy got the hump and threw his toys out of the pram.

Bruton has given cowen, ff and the yellows a get out of jail card and that seriously calls into question his thinking.

Banned Account

jmayo wrote: »

sam smyth was mouthing on over the weekend both on his own show on Sunday and on another show on Saturday about changing Kenny as leader.
Yet no peep out of him about clowen ?

Ahem ...

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/sam-smyth-brian-lenihan-only-one-who-can-save-fianna-fail-now-2216578.html

steelcityblues

Who leaked the information about Enda Kenny's leadership being under threat? I would like to know.

rightwingdub

T runner wrote: »

But politics is set up that way here. The TD is seen as the person who can do these things, thats the way it is. Its the system that creates the parish pump politicians, not the electorate.

But arguably he delivers more to the local economy than any other local politician could. Ofcourse they vote for him. Thats the system.
TDs have way too much input in local politics and too little in national politics.

Agree with you on our electoral system, thats why a list system is required so politicians can concentrate on national issues.

He got a new hosipital and the Castleisland bypass in last years budget.

Laminations

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Ahem ...

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/sam-smyth-brian-lenihan-only-one-who-can-save-fianna-fail-now-2216578.html

My goodness, that type of fanboy adoration amounts to blatant propaganda. Its the type of 'Lennyboy' comments that got users like Tommy Bateman banned on here for flame baiting (I assume thats where he went). When boardsies go off on a Lenihan love-in rant, in the back of my mind I think its the ultimate sarcasm and they are truly anti-FF but obviously there are people out there that like to overlook all the bad governance, turn a blind eye to poor ethics and corruption, brush over the condemnation from the banking reports and focus solely on Brian Lenihan, judging the entire FF party on this one mans performance - a performance that many say cost the country billions,

jmayo

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Ahem ...

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/sam-smyth-brian-lenihan-only-one-who-can-save-fianna-fail-now-2216578.html

FFS does he want to have lenihan's baby as well :rolleyes:
There are a few people that would question his appraisal of lenny as the most competent and respected politican in the country :rolleyes:

Banned Account

jmayo wrote: »

FFS does he want to have lenihan's baby as well :rolleyes:
There are a few people that would question his appraisal of lenny as the most competent and respected politican in the country :rolleyes:

Not my point really captain rolleyes. I was simply pointing out that you stated Sam Smyth hadn't said a word about Brian Cowen - you were wrong.

Not that people should pay any attention to what he says in the first place - just try to acquaint yourself with the facts before making incorrect comments.

Liam Byrne

jmayo wrote: »

FFS does he want to have lenihan's baby as well :rolleyes:
There are a few people that would question his appraisal of lenny as the most competent and respected politican in the country :rolleyes:

+1

That's one listener that he's lost for his Sunday Show, no matter what he calls it.

Banned Account

Laminations wrote: »

When boardsies go off on a Lenihan love-in rant, in the back of my mind I think its the ultimate sarcasm and they are truly anti-FF

You are suggesting either

A) Sam Smyth is a Boardsie or

I wrote that article

Both suggestions are wrong. Would you care to re-word?

jmayo

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Not my point really captain rolleyes. I was simply pointing out that you stated Sam Smyth hadn't said a word about Brian Cowen - you were wrong.

Not that people should pay any attention to what he says in the first place - just try to acquaint yourself with the facts before making incorrect comments.

Did you listen to him on over the weekend ?
Yesterday and Saturday he concentrated on FG leadership and you would have assumed that ff didn't have a trouble in the world.

Oh and that article doesn't so much read as a criticism of cowen more like a fawning sycophantic piece on lenihan.
I actually used to like listening to the guy, but now I guess I will be listening to music on Sunday mornings seen as marion is on RTE.

BTW captain rolleyes is not a bad nickname.

steelcityblues

Fergus O'Dowd on with Pat Kenny - would back Bruton in contest.

Banned Account

jmayo wrote: »

Did you listen to him on over the weekend ?
Yesterday and Saturday he concentrated on FG leadership and you would have assumed that ff didn't have a trouble in the world.

Oh and that article doesn't so much read as a criticism of cowen more like a fawning sycophantic piece on lenihan.
I actually used to like listening to the guy, but now I guess I will be listening to music on Sunday mornings seen as marion is on RTE.

BTW captain rolleyes is not a bad nickname.

I agree with what you are saying. I don't think Smyth is a first rate journalist by any stretch and was not defending his adolation of Lenihan. I was simply pointing out the fact that to say he has been silent of the FF leadership issue is not giving the full picture. Saying that only Lenihan can save FF amounts to the same as saying that it is doomed under Cowen.

Irlandese

jmayo wrote: »

FFS does he want to have lenihan's baby as well :rolleyes:
There are a few people that would question his appraisal of lenny as the most competent and respected politican in the country :rolleyes:

The problem may be that we are all talking about the "caste" , that is the "career politicians". As a former civil servant, I am well aware of the lack of real ability and total interest in self-interest that typifies our political "family" or caste system. Longer experience is code for being at the trough for a long enough time to be adept at all the many ways to rip off joe public.
Why are we not deciding to change all of them at the first available opportunity?
Yes, it is simple. They can all be replaced by new, first time and ideally "one-term only"
citizens who wish to help our country and not rip it off.
It would be so easy to clean house if we were a nation of fairly honest, moderately intelligent and sober citizens.
Enough said. Too many plonkers voting for the "ra-ra", "pub-quiz-team" approach to what passes for politics in this sad little gombeen country of ours.

By the way, ask Lenihan if he has been a member of Opus dei from his college days and how many other cabinet members and incidentally how many FG front bench TD's are also members in good standing???
Then ask every TD what personal interests they, or family, or lovers or business partners have had in ANY business deal or loan that was affected by the un-necessary and ruinous bank and builder bail-outs? Ask why their ( as opposed to "our" ) DPP will never order any investigations into such conflicts of interest?

Grow up, people and see the light ???

steelcityblues

Good post above! The fact that enough people still don't raise enough eyebrows about the scale of 'family ties' in Irish politics says it all.

astrofool

At this stage it's a matter of when, not if, for Kenny's leadership of FG. Better to get it over with now, rather than risk a party at war with itself going to election and leaving FF in charge (or worse, Labour in the majority).

Laminations

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

You are suggesting either

A) Sam Smyth is a Boardsie or

I wrote that article

Both suggestions are wrong. Would you care to re-word?

I suggested neither. You must have misunderstood.

1. I likened Sam Smyths article to FF fanboy propaganda.
2. I suggested that when I encountered this type of fanboy propaganda on Boards that I took it with a grain of salt as I was always unsure whether the poster was being a master of sarcasm.
3. I doubt very much that Sam Smyth writing in a national paper is exercising his sarcasm skills so his article made me reevaluate my views on people who present with blinkered FF love-in views.
4. He has made me worried that people actually exist who can sum up FF governance by merely examining Brian Lenihans (debatable) performance and overlooking all of the failings and ill-decisions this government has made to bring Ireland to the brink of bankruptcy.

I didnt suggest you were anything

Colm R

So here is my take on the whole problem (which involves some 'what ifs')

1. If Bruton pulls it off and becomes leader of Fine Gael, is there any room for Enda at the future cabinet table (or opposition front bench). I ask, because while people do not like him, he is clearly a good politician. One just needs to look at how has pulled Fine Gael from the brink since 2002.

2. If Kenny manages to hang on, is there any room for Bruton at the future cabinet table (or the opposition front bench). Obviously Bruton is well respected and considered to be a vital member of the Front bench.

astrofool

Kenny's only hope would be to work the backbenches for a while, and hope to get a cabinet table later on.

A bit like Hague has done in the UK.