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Wine for beginner

muppet_man

Hi all,

As it implies I'd like some suggestions for wines for a beginner.
I've wanted to like wine for ages but wouldn't know one wine from the other.
With the WC on I had planned to watch the matches with a few beers at home so why not try some wine instead.
When I've drank wine in the past I generally preferred reds. Whites had a dry after taste I wasn't too fond of. But willing to try anything.
No point suggesting something too expensive as it would probably be just wasted on me. Something easy to pick up from local off license/Tesco/lidl. Around 15 quid or less.

I look forward to your replies

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Bearhunter

I think what cheapened the brand was that it became a commodity wine - produced to a specific template, ie green, zingy, gooseberry characters and a smell like a sweaty armpit. Originally, each winery had its own little idiosyncracies, but as it became hugely popular, they became more generic and now it can be hard to tell the more commercial brands (like Oyster Bay or Montana or even Wither Hills) apart. Thankfully there are still some wineries that produce different wines, such as Forrest Estate, Johanneshof (which uses wild yeast to ferment the juice), Hunter's, Lawson's, Alan Scott and the single-vineyard wines from the likes of Villa Maria and Stoneleigh. Sadly there aren't any of what used to be called Fume Blancs down here, oak-aged savvies that had a genuine character and weight to them. The export markets wanted samey, two-dimensional wines and sadly that's what they got. The overproduction was also - as you rightly point out - a factor. Going for tonnage rather than flavour, the wines have become slightly dilute, although that should change from the 2010 vintage. Certainly the barrel samples I've tried have been more impressive than usual.

Sorry for the essay, but I tend to get carried away...:)

the beer revolu

Bearhunter wrote: »

No they didn't "go bust". They are restructuring their capital situation after a $900K loss, but they are still in a reasonably good position. I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but according to any of the wineries I deal with there has been no forced discounting to compete with Oyster Bay. There have been cases of wineries sending bulk wine overseas and creating new export labels to soak up the large grape/juice surplus, but I can honestly say I haven't heard anyone blame Oyster Bay for anything.

But surely it is fair to say that Oyster Bay cheapened the Kiwi Sauv Blanc 'brand'. Prior to them Kiwi SB, particularly Marlborough was very much a premium product.
Or was it overproduction, generally, cheapened the 'brand'?

Bearhunter

They most certainly will, Sean and I can promise you a fantastic experience once New Zealand's 2010 wines get to Ireland, because the barrel samples I've had from Marlborough, Hawke's Bay, Martinborough and Central Otago are outstanding.

Sean T Burke

I'm glad their very tasty wines will still be available. Thanks for the good news.

Bearhunter

Sean T Burke wrote: »

The company that produce Oyster Bay actually went bust last week and filed for financial protection in New Zealand. Their discount policy went wrong but they have caused huge problems for other NZ producers who were forced to reduce prices to compete with them.

No they didn't "go bust". They are restructuring their capital situation after a $900K loss, but they are still in a reasonably good position. I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but according to any of the wineries I deal with there has been no forced discounting to compete with Oyster Bay. There have been cases of wineries sending bulk wine overseas and creating new export labels to soak up the large grape/juice surplus, but I can honestly say I haven't heard anyone blame Oyster Bay for anything.

desk1

Slouch wrote: »

This seemed like the appropriate thread to post this. If someone is interested in taking an introductory sommelier course in Ireland, where would be the place to go?

try this link for Dublin Wine Academy
http://www.cooksacademy.com/category.php?intCategoryID=13

kenmc

I've not seen anyone mention South American wines yet, so I'll throw my oar in here with some Malbecs, I've only ever had one bad one, a sainsburys own-brand 5quid jobbie which ended up as cooking wine. It's my go-to red, a deep, dark, blackcurranty, sometimes slightly peppery. Can often get Trapiche which I really like, tends to be in around 12 euro or so.
Having just gotten married in the Carmignano region of Tuscany, would also recommend some of the wines from there, although to be fair I've never found any of them over here, but will be keeing an eye out.
Otherwise whites-wise I tend to go for Sauvignon Bs or Pinot Gs.

WooPeeA

thelynchfella wrote: »

Blossom Hill, white zinfandel rosé.......its like lemonade!!!!

White/Rose Zinfadel can be good for beginner who doesn't like acid wines as Zinfadel is sweet enough. Although it's the last wine I'd recommend to someone who wants to start some real adventure with wine..

muppet_man wrote: »

Sorry to be rude but really don't want somthing that tastes like breezer and just neck it! more prefere something I can relax over.

Got a btl of Rioja Monteclielo 2005 from Lidl for €8 and have to say I really enjoyed it. Thanks OP. Nice easy to taste, not too sharpe. Yes I liked it,

Italian Pinot Grigio can be a good bet. It's the most popular white wine in italy which makes it cheap enough comparing to French ones and the weather is just perfect for this type of grape which makes them worth a check. Prices starts from €7. Pink Pinot Grigio can be good choice too.

Don't hesitate to try some good cheese or pasta with lots of parmegiano with that wine.

IrishWhiskeyCha

Bearhunter wrote: »

Maybe once, but no longer. Now that NZ has some decent older vines, the pinots are far superior to anything from Aussie, while the syrahs have more class, complexity, structure and elegance than the archetypal big Aussie shiraz. All personal taste of course, but you can't dismiss the Kiwi reds any more. I was at a tasting of Waiheke Island (from near Auckland) wines last month and was stunned by the quality. Bloody pricey, but glorious wines. Meanwhile I'm off to a Hawke's Bay red tasting this afternoon and i fully excpect to be floored by the syrahs, cabernets, and even tempranillos and sangioveses. Hoor of a life, really...

Thanks for that BearHunter sometimes nuggets like that stick in the memory and that can be for the bad and it was a Kiwi that told me. Must admit I was in New Zealand a few years ago and I did not come across a bad Red while at any the Vine yards but I'm no expert so have a habit of going "what do I know" when thinking about wine. We actually stayed on a small family Vin Yard and all their wine was wonderful.

Sean T Burke

Mini Driver wrote: »

Oyster Bay is a New Zealand wine I have only tried the white but it is by far my favourite Wine. It is usually on special offer in some of the bigger shops like Tesco, etc. My local corner shop has it for €9 usually about €12 in Tesco when not on offer. Its lovely wine and doesn't have a strong aftertaste

The company that produce Oyster Bay actually went bust last week and filed for financial protection in New Zealand. Their discount policy went wrong but they have caused huge problems for other NZ producers who were forced to reduce prices to compete with them.

Sean T Burke

Vat on wine in Ireland is 21% but the excise duty is 2.50 Euro no matter what the wine costs in most cases.

(mostly..below 9.5% or above 15 % alcohol or for sparkling wines is different).

So spending a fiver on a bottle leaves very little for the wine producer.
4.99Euro less 21% vat is 4.12... less excise duty of 2.50 is 1.62...less retailer mark-up...less wholesaler/importer (all wine in Ireland is imported)..less transport from Chile or New Zealand...what is left for the actual wine?

0.62 cents??

Spending 10 euro on a bottle means 8.26 without vat..take away 2.50 excise duty leaves 5.76 ..less the other costs which are the same for all bottles anyway..

but you will get a far better wine ...at least 2.00 Euro MIGHT have gone to the wine producer for a 10.00 Euro bottle..

Look out for the supermarket or the offiee wines that are half price and still cost 7 to 10 Euro...The wine will be many many times better than the 4.99 bottle...

The situation is different if you are buying in a pub or restaurant...

Hope this helps...I'm happy to help with any wine queries

Sean

Bearhunter

IrishWhiskeyCha wrote: »

Some body told me once as a rule of thumb (and this has to be taken as a lose rule as you can never generalise too much)

Australia for Red & New Zeland for White when you are deciding between those two countries.

Maybe once, but no longer. Now that NZ has some decent older vines, the pinots are far superior to anything from Aussie, while the syrahs have more class, complexity, structure and elegance than the archetypal big Aussie shiraz. All personal taste of course, but you can't dismiss the Kiwi reds any more. I was at a tasting of Waiheke Island (from near Auckland) wines last month and was stunned by the quality. Bloody pricey, but glorious wines. Meanwhile I'm off to a Hawke's Bay red tasting this afternoon and i fully excpect to be floored by the syrahs, cabernets, and even tempranillos and sangioveses. Hoor of a life, really...

IrishWhiskeyCha

Some body told me once as a rule of thumb (and this has to be taken as a lose rule as you can never generalise too much)

Australia for Red & New Zeland for White when you are deciding between those two countries.

drunkmonkey

BrianJD wrote: »

New Zealand really make some lovely wines,

+1 Nearly any white wine from the Marloborough region in New Zealand is great tasting wine, the newer the year the better, there's some very nice 2009 vintage around at the moment.
You can pick up bottles from 6 euro plus in some supermarkets, can't recommend it enough.

Slouch

This seemed like the appropriate thread to post this. If someone is interested in taking an introductory sommelier course in Ireland, where would be the place to go?

irish_goat

muppet_man wrote: »

I'm in Kildare Town and do be up around Leixlip/Maynooth and citywest a lot. There used to be one in Newbridge but belive it's closed now. If anyone can recommend one that would be great

The Wine Cellar, diagonally opposite from the Roost in Maynooth is good for wine (and foreign beer) and Tesco Maynooth has a huge wine selection as well.

muppet_man

BrianJD wrote: »

...I'd recommend a Cassilero Del Diablo Cab Sauv...

Just picked up a bottle of this. I'm looking forward to trying it later. Thanks Brian.

muckety wrote: »

If you say here where abouts you are based you could get a good wine shop recommendation.

I'm in Kildare Town and do be up around Leixlip/Maynooth and citywest a lot. There used to be one in Newbridge but belive it's closed now. If anyone can recommend one that would be great

muckety

If you have a wine shop near to you go in there and ask them what they recommend you try. Having something recommended by someone who knows the wine is a great way of trying something that you otherwise might not try, especially if they let you taste it before you buy (a lot of good wine shops will have a few wines open to try, different ones each week).

If you say here where abouts you are based you could get a good wine shop recommendation.

BrianJD

LifesgoodwithLG wrote: »

This conversation is enticing me to have a cheeky glass - love Casillero Del Diablo:o

Not on a school night!!

LifesgoodwithLG

BrianJD wrote: »

New Zealand really make some lovely wines, a little bit more pricey than Chile, Austalia but not in the French League. I actually manage an Off Licence and it's really only since I changed to White that I've really developed an enjoyment of wine despite doing a fairly detailed wine course years ago. I'd recommend a Cassilero Del Diablo Cab Sauv or if you want to try a white, you can't really go wrong with a Chilean or New Zealand Sauv Blanc.

Enjoy experimenting!

This conversation is enticing me to have a cheeky glass - love Casillero Del Diablo:o

BrianJD

Mini Driver wrote: »

Oyster Bay is a New Zealand wine I have only tried the white but it is by far my favourite Wine. It is usually on special offer in some of the bigger shops like Tesco, etc. My local corner shop has it for €9 usually about €12 in Tesco when not on offer. Its lovely wine and doesn't have a strong aftertaste

New Zealand really make some lovely wines, a little bit more pricey than Chile, Austalia but not in the French League. I actually manage an Off Licence and it's really only since I changed to White that I've really developed an enjoyment of wine despite doing a fairly detailed wine course years ago. I'd recommend a Cassilero Del Diablo Cab Sauv or if you want to try a white, you can't really go wrong with a Chilean or New Zealand Sauv Blanc.

Enjoy experimenting!

LifesgoodwithLG

Hi there, rent out Sideways

Me, I Love Wyndham Estate Bin 555 Shiraz - aussie wine retails approx 9 euro's, the Bin 333 pinot noir is very drinkable ( and may induce some spelling mistakes ). Campo Viejo Reserva or Grand Reserva if you feel like splashing out.

For whites, I adore Kiwi Sauv Blancs defo Montana Sauv Blanc or Oyster Bay, I hate Chardonnays with a passion,

Experiment have fun and go to Lidl / Aldi and look for 'Reserva' on the label. Mark & Spencers are surprisingly reasonable however have only their own label brands.

defo last tip, if you like a bottle take a photo of the label as you will forget.

Frisbee

Clos du Val Zinfandel or Ravenswood Zinfandel are both nice American Reds that have a nice bit of taste off them but at the same time aren't too in your face so would be a decent place to start.

thelynchfella

it was my gateway to red wine....thats why i mentioned it. never liked red wine before i had rosé

muppet_man

thelynchfella wrote: »

Blossom Hill, white zinfandel rosé.......its like lemonade!!!!

Sorry to be rude but really don't want somthing that tastes like breezer and just neck it! more prefere something I can relax over.

Got a btl of Rioja Monteclielo 2005 from Lidl for €8 and have to say I really enjoyed it. Thanks OP. Nice easy to taste, not too sharpe. Yes I liked it,

I liked it so much so i had to go out and get a btl of Paul Masson red from Centra. Don't know if it was my taste buds dulled but liked Rioja more.

More suggestions for tonights wine are welcome. Have a look at http://www.carryout.ie/customer/index.asp

On side topic, for a beginner you lot mention a lot a big names and years that we newby's like me don't' understand. Only cop'ed that Rioja was a region of spain until I wiki'ed

thelynchfella

Blossom Hill, white zinfandel rosé.......its like lemonade!!!!

Mini Driver

Oyster Bay is a New Zealand wine I have only tried the white but it is by far my favourite Wine. It is usually on special offer in some of the bigger shops like Tesco, etc. My local corner shop has it for €9 usually about €12 in Tesco when not on offer. Its lovely wine and doesn't have a strong aftertaste

muppet_man

Davidth88 wrote: »

How about if you are watching a game you drink a bottle from one of the countries involved

Good thinking, I'll be an expert by the end of it...either that or an alco

Hopefully France won't be in their too long so get that one out of way tonight!

Davidth88

You know , you have given me an idea ....

How about if you are watching a game you drink a bottle from one of the countries involved

You may struggle with group E games ( Camaroon/Denmark/Japan and Holland, with the exception of Japan I can't think of any wine from the others ) however looking at the fixtures , 90% of the games involve at least one wine producing nation .

Bit of fun !!

Roaster

I really only like white wine myself and am in no way an expert. I buy most of my wine out of Tesco and will suit your price range. My aul' reliables are Black Tower Resling and Rosemount Sauvignon Blanc. I'll always try a Pinot Grigio and Frascti too.