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What happened to the Pub??

ardinn

For those of you who have left the pub scene and taken up home-drinking, what were your reasons?

What would you like to see happen in your local that would get you out again?

What do you think the local means in your area / or should mean?

Do you believe people have been forced into their homes by drink-drive laws / the smoking ban?

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Heroditas

guildofevil wrote: »

If antisocial behaviour is a problem, then we need to crack down on anti social behaviour, not interfere with legitimate businesses and their customers, most of whom are not out causing problems, no matter where they bought their booze or what they paid for it.

Hear hear!
We've had enough of the nanny-state mentality.

the_syco

THall04 wrote: »

"In fact over the weekend just gone we had 31 serious assaults across Strathclyde, only two of those were actually in licensed premises.

In Ireland, all nightclubs close at the same time. Lots of drunks converge onto the streets, and fights happen. I wonder what are the stats for these fights?

=-=

I buy cheap supermarket drink. Why? Because it costs €24 for a 0.7L bottle of Southern Comfort in a local off license. At €4 a shot, it would probably cost over €80 in a pub.

Monkey61

I haven't had time to read through the whole thread,so sorry if I am repeating anything that has already been said.

I live in London now and the main thing that I missed when I moved was the pubs at home....but...after a couple of years here and a few trips back, a few things have jumped out at me as I find myself increasingly less happy with all of my favourite pubs when I go home.

The main one is the choice of drinks. I am a cider drinker and I will travel miles across the city I live in to go for a single pint of a decent cider - for which I will pay a premium. The selection is far better here (not everywhere, but I have figured out where to go) and I have counted up to 11 different ciders behind the bar in some pubs (ordinary pubs, not specialist ones) with 2 on tap. Even having one decent cider on tap makes such a change from the tooth stinging sugar buzz that is Bulmers.

Wine drinkers are also catered for to a much bigger extent. Your average pub here will have a wine list and will pour you a glass from a whole bottle as opposed to there just being one red, one white and maybe if you are in luck one rose in mini bottle form. Also,and this is one of my favourite things, most pubs will sell you wine by the bottle very reasonably, which I have never found in an Irish pub.

This means that I will have more reason to go to the pub than I would in Ireland. I would go myself with a book for a decent pint of cider on a quiet afternoon. I can share a bottle of wine with my girlfriend in a nice atmosphere - something very nice about having a bottle to drink at leisure rather than just glasses.

Loads of ales and different beers on tap too. I don't drink these usually, but just for the experience sometimes I would be tempted to have an interesting sounding foreign beer or a local ale with a friend, just to try something different.

Also pubs here seem to do their best to put on different and interesting nights out. Loads of interesting club/band nights take place in pubs. Decent jukeboxes too.

Food is also very reasonably priced in comparison to the drinks and there are far more options available.

Brian CivilEng

Hear, hear guildofevil. The majority of people can enjoy a night out or pick up a slab of beer without causing trouble, why punish those because of the actions of the few.

It's a shame that Septemberfest was cancelled this year, I think that was a great advertisment for responsible drinking. Last year 30,000 people visited Farmleigh to sample many alcoholic beverages, some arriving as early as 11am. What followed was a relaxing afternoon where many people enjoyed themselves. If this can happen at an event where "shock, horror" the only reason people went there was to drink alcohol I think it shows that the problem is not the drink, it's the attitude of the drinkers.

Saruman

+1 on that.

guildofevil

Hold on.
People get drunk in a pub and then get rowdy, it's the pubs fault?
People get drunk at home can cause trouble, it's the supermarkets fault?

Wrong. If someone gets drunk and starts causing trouble it's THEIR FAULT. Not the person who sold them the drink.

I drink. I buy in pubs and I buy off sales. I don't go out and cause trouble.

If antisocial behaviour is a problem, then we need to crack down on anti social behaviour, not interfere with legitimate businesses and their customers, most of whom are not out causing problems, no matter where they bought their booze or what they paid for it.

THall04

Most of the anti-social behaviour I see happens in my housing estate between 10-11:30pm...and then again around 3am.
People getting pissed on cheap supermarket drink....then heading into town ,to a late bar/nightclub...for a couple of hours....then back to the house party ,until they drop down drunk.

In the centre of town (Waterford) I don't see as much goin on as thre're plenty of Gards around......but ye can never find a Garda when a gang of lads on the street are throwing cans into your garden or busting beer bottles on the side of your house

BeerNut

THall04 wrote: »

That's not just bad for yer liver , but also for the anti-social behaviour it causes.

Most of the anti-social behaviour I see happens on city centre streets, caused by people who have been drinking in licensed premises. Besides which, supermarkets are always going to sell booze cheaper than pubs. Making a can cost €2 instead of €1 isn't going to encourage anyone to buy a €4 pint instead.

Some copper wrote:

only two of those were actually in licensed premises.

Well duh! Can we have the figures for the streets outside the pubs, please?

THall04

Cheap supermarket drink should be banned!
Earlier in this thread ,somebody said they would drink an average of 14cans at a house party , when they'd never drink that much in a pub
That's not just bad for yer liver , but also for the anti-social behaviour it causes.
See the quote below from today's BBC website , as more and more people leave pubs and have house parties......anti-social behaviour and drunken violence is only going to get worse

"Stephen House, the chief constable of Strathclyde Police, told BBC Radio Scotland that an increasing trend of people buying cheap alcohol to drink at house parties rather than going to the pub was contributing to violent crime and anti-social behaviour.
He said: "We've seen a trend in the last few years of an increase in violence associated with drink parties and a move away from proper licensed premises.
"In fact over the weekend just gone we had 31 serious assaults across Strathclyde, only two of those were actually in licensed premises.
"We are seeing that licensed premises are actually better run and safer places to be than these house parties that can get out of control and go on for hours."

nachoman

I think good food can be a big draw, I go at least once a week to my local to try some of its delicious pub food.

irish_goat

Any pub that does craft beer or decent European ones will get my custom, if I'm Dublin I generally make it my mission to get to a Porterhouse and will hassle my friends to go there. Aside from the great beer they're also lovely pubs (and not too expensive). Usually I'm going out in either Derry and Maynooth though and there's pretty much no option for microbeers in either place apart from a Wetherspoons pub in Derry. Also a beer menu is great, gives you something to read if you're waiting on someone and it encourages you to try other stuff.

Good staff are essential too, in Maynooth each pub is generally busiest on a specific night of the week. My fav pub is the one everyone goes to a Monday and I try to aim to make Monday my night out (and convince others to go out Monday). Simple reason is because the staff in the Monday pub (O'Neills) are the best. .

Every pub should have newspapers if they're open during the day.

With regards to free pub nibbles, I was in a bar in Surrey on a Sunday afternoon that laid out plates of crackers and cheese on the tables, which was lovely and probably didn't really cost them much.

the_syco

I actually had quite a long detailed report, but then Opera crashed. Holy fúck, I'm pissed off right now :mad:

Saruman wrote: »

Secondly is advertise. I don't mean take out ads I mean advertise your wares. Put a full drinks menu outside your pub or in your window so people can see what you have.

Fridges at eye level behind the pub is a nice idea. It allows people to see what you have, and if people ask what you have, the barstaff can ask if they like cider/ale/beer, and show them the relevant bottles. Porterhouse I think does this.

Saruman wrote: »

Thirdly is atmosphere. Keep it nice and relaxed for the most part. If you feel the need to increase the tempo and volume when it gets late on a Friday and Saturday night then that's fine I think, just not every night and not all the time.

Look around, and see what age group fills the THUMP THUMP THUMP music clubs nearby. If it's 18-25, maybe go for the 22-30+ age group, by not playing so much latest hits sh|te, and play music that is at least 10 years old. Get a few bands in that play the easy listening music, and get a rep of a pub has bands, but is chilled. Get the people who don't goto the other pubs to come to yours, and maybe some of the fickle crowd as well.

Saruman wrote: »

Also I think free Wi-Fi is a big draw for people, especially professionals who want a relaxing drink, check email and maybe do a little work.

Put a password on it, put the password behind the bar, and change it every so often, so that little johnny down the road doesn't download all sorts of porn with your broadband. Also look into capping the Wi-Fi, so that people can browse the web, but not stream videos. Streaming videos kills the speed, and stops people from browsing the web, if two or three people are doing it.

Saruman wrote: »

Sixthly is web presence. This is only useful if you become a beer specialist bar promoting Irish or world craft beers but it is very easy thing to get a website put up with pictures, opening hours, contact details and a full menu of your drinks and food if you serve it.

Local pub does this www.ryevale.ie - you can do a more basic version yourself by just reading a quick tutorial on making a website. Have a picture of the front of your bar (people may forget the adress, but not forget what your place looks like), and tourists doing a search in google of bars in your area will see your site, and goto it.

Saruman wrote: »

Lastly, and I have no idea if this is economical but snacks are a mans best friend in a pub.

May not be economical giving one per pint, but if you do a "free bowl of peanuts with every round of 5 drinks bought" it may be. It'll also ensure they're eaten, as in a group of 5, there'll always be at least one who'll eat them :P

Steodonn

ardinn wrote: »

It is illegal to serve you if you have had to much to drink, Some places have a dress code, Regards accents they probably tell you no before you speak to them and therefore you have either had too much alcohol or dont meet the dress code (if applicable) If your the wrong colour skin then report it!

In matters where people are refused entry to a premises and you believe there is no good reason, ask to speak to a manager or head of security and politely explain there is no good reason for stopping you, Be calm, and not aggressive or forceful, - if you have a case then generally you will be let in - but if your speech is slurred due to consumption, you stink of beer or you have had trouble in the past on the premises then you have no right to enter and the establishment is well within their rights to refuse entry.

Also doormen in many towns are now linked, letting others know who is causing trouble etc. So if you are not behaving everywhere you go and you are refused entry somewhere else - they are also well within their rights to refuse entry, if they believe you are a danger to staff or customers.

But this makes going out more hassle. Why should I go out when there is a chance I might not get in ? . I can go to a friends house knowing I will have a great time less hassle and cheaper

thelynchfella

For me, i dont really mind the price of beer so long as i feel i'm getting value for the money i'm handing over.
I'm in dublin, I dont go to my local, the only bars i go to are in town where i have a choice of beers. I'd happily go to my local if they stocked O'Haras stout, or Galway Hooker, or Friarweiss, or just a decent ale whether its on tap or bottled.
As for asking your local to get a beer in for you. Surely it's up to the publican to do his research and not rely on customers to come asking him what beer he should get in. Personally, if a pub doesnt have a type of beer i like i'll happily just go elsewhere.
Ardinn, I think what you are doing is right, in that your going out looking for answers yourself, doing your own market research. And for it i hope your business is a success. Don't knock the idea of getting in Irish craft beer, especially since you are in Carlow and have a really great brewery on your doorstep.

koHd

Saruman wrote: »

Ardinn I think you are a publican from what I have read so where is your pub? Is it in the sticks, City centre or suburb?

If you are looking to make it different then, well there have been many suggestions but I will condense what I think makes a great pub.

Firstly drinks choice. If you are in a good location, especially a city centre location then traffic is not a problem so you need to make yourself stand out. Get in and promote beer from Irish breweries. Not Guinness, Carlsberg, Heineken etc as none of them are Irish. I mean actual Irish breweries like Porterhouse, Carlow, Galway Hooker, Dungarvan, Trouble Brewing, White Gypsy, Whitewater, Hilden, Franciscan Well and others....
Some of them like Franciscan Well or Carlow will actually commission a beer to be made for you. If you get new beers in you must promote them. Don't expect average Joe's to decide to give them a go.

This is a great point. I always find it shocking that Irish pubs don't have much in the way of Irish beers. lager especially. The only pub I love to go to in Dublin City centre is The Porterhouse. Mainly because they have unique, Irish brewed beerss. It's also nice flicking through their beer booklet and having the odd fruity European beer. The O/H loves The Porterhouse for the fruity bottled beer selection. The booklet with a description and history of each beer is a great touch.

Pixelcraft

I've lost any sympathy I would have had for publicans before. See, I remember the laughable 'price freeze' the VFI brought in, and without exception every pub I went to before that was implemented raised their prices in anticipation of the move. There's few industries I can think of that shows this kind of contempt for its customers.

Anyway, to answer the question - like the others, for me it's choice of beer. I regularly visit the porterhouse and other pubs that stock great beers. I do drink more and home with friends though. I'm not sure there's anything pubs can do now to counter that, peoples habits have changed - and as we see, take years to form, to be honest you guys blew it with the gouging that went on.

Saruman

ardinn wrote: »

Before I go on I will state that the Bars we have are in Carlow (rural village) And (Wexford) Large village with 2 bars 2 hotels and plenty of restaurants - I dont have experience of the dublin trade so bear that in mind should I post in relation to pricing etc.

I missed this earlier so now I have a better idea of where you are.

Carlow obviously has its own brewery so get them in. Instill some local pride in local beer.

The Wexford pub does not have a local brewery as such since Letts is long gone but there is Waterford so you still have regional pride, even if it is a different province

Like I said earlier though, you will never push anything new if you don't promote it. Big chalk boards with specials, maybe get some T-shirts from the breweries and have staff wear them to promote the beer.

The big problem when it comes to promoting new beer in Ireland is that we are as a nation very brand loyal. Get national pride going and remind people that it has been a long time since Guinness, Murphy's and Beamish have actually been true Irish companies.

IrishWhiskeyCha

Another question to the Bar owners/managers. Why do ye put up with the suppliers prices? Especially if they are proving bad value in comparison to the rest of the retail market (Loss leaders asside). Why do alot of bar owners feel obligued to buy those baby split bottles and make their customers feel ripped off. Now I know some of ye don't and offer other forms of splashes but it really is not the norm. If the Pub trade in conjunction with the Vintners Association started on the supplers you might be able to reduce your costs. I see musgraves had to close some of their operations but no wonder. The stuff they were selling to the corner shop was the same price as the supermarkets. Now that is not right. A local independent supermarket in Galway decided to buy direct from the North and they are now undercutting Tescos & Dunnes in a lot of lines. You can't blame them for feeling ripped off by southern suppliers/wholesalers and something is very wrong if they can under cut the big boys by sourcing in the North.

The morale of the story is that this country is totally over priced in every retail sector and the whole sector needs to get a grip. The retail sector cried over people flocking to the north but the fundamental problem was not the customer going to the north but te customer getting ripped off.

In my opinion the whole issue is one where the whole supply chain is not responding to the economic crisis. You can be sure that some manufacturers and wholesales have not gone out of their way to reduce prices. But they in the long term they will lose out from dropped sales.

We really need a total over haul of the entire system from start to finish.

That is something that will take time to sort out. So as well as looking at your paying customers you should also be looking as a customer yourselves at how ye can get the better deals from your wholesaler/ supplier.

I'm sure it is probably very much a shut shop but if the Vitners associaion asked all their member for one week not to do businees with suppliers that would send a shock to the suppliers. The suppliers in turn would need to deal with the manufacturers ... now I'm talking of Diageo and Pernod ricard not the small guy. These massive companies and wholesales are the ones that really need to be targeted if you say you can't compete with offlicences.

Saruman

Ardinn I think you are a publican from what I have read so where is your pub? Is it in the sticks, City centre or suburb?

If you are looking to make it different then, well there have been many suggestions but I will condense what I think makes a great pub.

Firstly drinks choice. If you are in a good location, especially a city centre location then traffic is not a problem so you need to make yourself stand out. Get in and promote beer from Irish breweries. Not Guinness, Carlsberg, Heineken etc as none of them are Irish. I mean actual Irish breweries like Porterhouse, Carlow, Galway Hooker, Dungarvan, Trouble Brewing, White Gypsy, Whitewater, Hilden, Franciscan Well and others....
Some of them like Franciscan Well or Carlow will actually commission a beer to be made for you. If you get new beers in you must promote them. Don't expect average Joe's to decide to give them a go.

Secondly is advertise. I don't mean take out ads I mean advertise your wares. Put a full drinks menu outside your pub or in your window so people can see what you have. Once inside make sure there is a drinks menu available on pretty much every table listing off all the drinks and include descriptions, country of origin etc.

Thirdly is atmosphere. Keep it nice and relaxed for the most part. If you feel the need to increase the tempo and volume when it gets late on a Friday and Saturday night then that's fine I think, just not every night and not all the time.

Fourthly is price. Don't rip people off, obvious I know. I have no problem paying €4 - €5 for a pint of micro brewed beer and sometimes I can get them cheaper even in the pub. Don't increase prices after a certain time if you can avoid it as it is just seen as dishonest among people, even if you advertise the fact it is still seen as wrong by punters.

Fifthly is entertainment. I think TV's are great for when there is a match on but there is no need to have them on all the time, unless you have a separate room you can turn in to a dedicated sports bar.
Also I think free Wi-Fi is a big draw for people, especially professionals who want a relaxing drink, check email and maybe do a little work.

Sixthly is web presence. This is only useful if you become a beer specialist bar promoting Irish or world craft beers but it is very easy thing to get a website put up with pictures, opening hours, contact details and a full menu of your drinks and food if you serve it. If you are in a good location your tourism may increase even if it is only from a small sector of people like myself. Beer Tourists who travel the world and then write about beer and bars we have been to on blogs etc. It is huge in the US and there are a lot in the UK as well. Keep the website simple, avoid flash as it is very hard to update.

Lastly, and I have no idea if this is economical but snacks are a mans best friend in a pub. In the US and around the continent when you go in to a bar they give you free snacks and keep them coming. A bowl of peanuts or crisps etc. Salty snacks basically. On the one hand it might be seen as trying to keep people drinking by making them thirsty but on the other I think people will appreciate it a lot more and Irish people as a whole absolutely love free stuff.

rugbyman

Ardinn,
i have just skipped through this thread. I like the way you have come on here looking for info.
Clearly the pub trade is in trouble, with many reasons, customers having less disposable income, minimum wage, high rates,water charges, and perhaps the biggest is the prices paid for pubs in the last ten years.
Even pubs that have been owned for a long time and standing less money suffer.
I would never have dreamed that once booming, good pubs
would now have half a dozen customers.
I have no solution to offer you, just that I understand your position.
Thanks for coming on here.
Rugbyman

Table Top Joe

pa990 wrote: »

I only occasionaly go to pub's now, generally only for special occasions, ie birthdays etc

That was me for most of last year,i just got really fed up of it,one of my buddies who likes the same pubs as me(decent music,not chart rubbish and at decent levels)broke up with his girlfriend a few months back so i have a drinking buddy again....yay!!:D

I wasnt really expecting anyone here to like those pubs but most people obviously do or they wouldnt go to them,the atmosphere in our pubs was the envy of publicans around the world at one stage,now you could be anywhere in Europe when you drink here,damn shame

worded

marceldesailly wrote: »

An example from last night why I tend to avoid most pubs.

Choice of beers.
Draught:Coors light,Miller,Becks,Bavaria,Heineken,Carlsberg,Guinness,Cider.
Bottles: Coors light,Miller,Corona,Heineken,Cider

I think this list is probably representative of the majority of pubs, a sad fact i'd say.6 lagers that taste of nothing and a stout not much better. So I'll buy a nice bottle of beer...oh no I can't do that either!

If I'm going to a pub I expect to be able to buy a beer that tastes of something,or have a choice. It's pretty depressing walking to the bar and to be faced with the choice above. Is it not a bit depresing for the publican too?

I like a bottle of Pauliner. Its frequently served in pubs in a warm glass just out of the dish washer and the bottle has been chilled for a few minutes, if at all.

Great, so it was brewed to perfection and then served at the wrong temp for 5.20 euros.

Did I ask for it to be heated FFS!

ardinn

charlemont wrote: »

SORRY NOT TONIGHT.........why ? wrong colour skin. wrong accent. wrong clothes. too mu ch to drink...HYPOCRITES i laugh when i hear publicans look for sympathy

It is illegal to serve you if you have had to much to drink, Some places have a dress code, Regards accents they probably tell you no before you speak to them and therefore you have either had too much alcohol or dont meet the dress code (if applicable) If your the wrong colour skin then report it!

In matters where people are refused entry to a premises and you believe there is no good reason, ask to speak to a manager or head of security and politely explain there is no good reason for stopping you, Be calm, and not aggressive or forceful, - if you have a case then generally you will be let in - but if your speech is slurred due to consumption, you stink of beer or you have had trouble in the past on the premises then you have no right to enter and the establishment is well within their rights to refuse entry.

Also doormen in many towns are now linked, letting others know who is causing trouble etc. So if you are not behaving everywhere you go and you are refused entry somewhere else - they are also well within their rights to refuse entry, if they believe you are a danger to staff or customers.

pa990

Table Top Joe wrote: »

..............
Does anyone here actually like pubs with really loud music? serious question

I stopped going to my regular pub, because the music that was always at an acceptable level, got louder and louder, seemingly in corolation with the the downturn in the economy and pub trade.

It just wasn't enjoyable anymore to have a drink and a chat there.
I was constantly asking people to repeat themselves.

I've since done most of my alcohol drinking in the comfort of my own home.

I only occasionaly go to pub's now, generally only for special occasions, ie birthdays etc

Saruman

Table Top Joe wrote: »

Does anyone here actually like pubs with really loud music? serious question

Certainly not me. That is why I find Sunday afternoons the best time to be in a pub to be honest. The music playing is easy listening and at a low volume.

koHd

rubadub wrote: »

Very strange that most are sold for more than bottles then. Most (Irish) bud, heineken & carlsberg I see usually costs more in cans to the end customer. Makes sense since in general they are 500ml vs 330ml.

I actually always see the opposite. For some reason it's more to buy bottles in and offo than the can version. Which I always find strange, since there's more in a can. Bottles would suit my drinking pace better.

But cans always are better value for money except when Tesco sell a big box for a ridiculously low price on one of their offers. But as mentioned, they're most likely making a loss on those offers to get people into the shop that might then buy other stuff.

Blisterman

I've studied in England for 4 years, and there's a very big difference in drinking culture. Specifically young people.

Nights out
In England:
Go to a local pub. Pay £1.50-£2 a pint. Have about 5 or 6.
Go to a club. Free in. Couple vodka and Red bulls. £2.50 each
Total cost of night £15

In Ireland:
Drink at someone's house, cause pub's too expensive. 5 or 6 cans at €1.50 each
Go out to a club. €10 in. Ask at the bar how much Vodka and red bull is. Have tap water.

See the problem?

Table Top Joe

charlemont wrote: »

SORRY NOT TONIGHT.........why ? wrong colour skin. wrong accent. wrong clothes. too mu ch to drink...HYPOCRITES i laugh when i hear publicans look for sympathy

Yeah the arrogance of some bouncers doesnt help either,myself and 5 other guys walked up to the door of a pub a few weeks ago and got stopped,"not tonight lads",the most any of us had were 2 pints and 2 of the lads hadnt drank anything! purely down to the fact that we were 5 guys i think,but we're all late 20s and were well dressed,one of my buddies who works in a bar was stunned,a lot of pubs do themselves no favours

Table Top Joe

Gaunty wrote: »

Now after reading all that i imagine some people will be thinking that we must be a very busy pub with such value on offer and being in a prime location in the center of my town. Well you'd be wrong, the majority of people still go to the overpriced pubs in my area, pay €5 for pints and God knows what for their spirits and mixers. So i have no sympathy for people giving out about pub prices. As long as eejits keep going to the overpriced establishments every weekend they have no reason to lower their prices. Until people become more vocal about it and more careful where they spend their money then the odd greedy publican will continue to give all publicans like myself and the OP a bad name.

Really feel for you here,its baffling how people can be happy to go to these terrible,loud,expensive inpersonal pubs when theres a proper one across the road! theres 5 pubs near me,one of them is fairly small(about average size for a rurul pub id say),it has music on all night,loud enough for you to hear it but nowhere near being loud enough to interfere with a conversation,the staff are friendly and know your order after you've ordered once,its clean,reasonably priced(cheapest around in fact)etc....and its the quietest pub in the area! to be fair one of the other pubs does well and its more old fashioned,but the most successful 3 are the loud expensive ones where your crammed in like sardines,unfortunatly for me these 3 are where my friends like to go most nights

Does anyone here actually like pubs with really loud music? serious question

charlemont

SORRY NOT TONIGHT.........why ? wrong colour skin. wrong accent. wrong clothes. too mu ch to drink...HYPOCRITES i laugh when i hear publicans look for sympathy