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Child Item

Getting drunk in front of children

Jinxi

I don't know if I have this in the right forum as I am not looking for parents opinion in particular.

I recently got really angry at my partner for getting drunk(I mean act stupidly, slurring words, sloppy, dodgy memory drunk) in front of his neices and nephews. We have no kids at all, but in my family, we drink, but rarely to acess. On special occasions, when the kids go to bed we might let loose, but its an unsaid rule that there is serious self control in front of the kids.
Now, my partner agrees that he went over board but thinks I am blowing it out of proportion. This maybe truthful. I am ultra vigilant about his drinking habits, He had two "fond of their drink" irish parents(i.e. people who drank every evening at home and once or twice down the pub at night, to the point they were neglectful of my partner as a kid), He has admitted that he finds it hard to know when to ease off and when to stop at social fuctions. The problem is we are of an age group(and a social group) that loves getting LOCKED!
I have always been the " dry sh*te" that cannot physically get rip roaringly drunk. And I am cool with it(as is my partner)
I secretly always thought that I am right and everyone else is wrong:D
Yesterday, though, I began to question myself.
I was chatting to my "sister-inlaw", who I am close to, who is the mother of said neices and nephews(are you keeping up). I was telling her about my issues with my partners drinking habits in certain social situations(ie family events like christenings bithdays etc) with emphasis on the children. She really surprised me by saying I was over reacting.
She is a great mom in every way. But when we do go to theres for a few bottles of vino, I am the only one who remembers the night and stops drinking after a certain amount when her kids are up.
She is enlightened about alcoholism and yet excused my patners(her brothers) behaviour on his age, his upbrining etc.
Am I just being up-tight? I fully agree that responsible drinking in front of kids is ok, I would have thought tho after they, on numerous occasions, slag and give out about their parents boozing habits, would be more sensitive to their kids. I have seen their kids do the rolling eyes when their parents are drunk. Hpw much is too much

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silverharp

everything in moderation. There are basic safety issues, ie if there are kids in the house there should normally be somebody who is sober in case there is a medical emergency. Otherwise it isnt a big issue if the kids have gone to bed. I'd feel more sorry for kids that are dragged around pubs at weekends so that the "adults" can get plastered during the day time or that every family occassion is seen as an opportunity to get a days drinking in. Ultimately it means that the kids are being ignored.

the_syco

silverharp wrote: »

I'd feel more sorry for kids that are dragged around pubs at weekends so that the "adults" can get plastered during the day time or that every family occassion is seen as an opportunity to get a days drinking in. Ultimately it means that the kids are being ignored.

Having worked in a pub, said bored children will often run around screaming their heads off, and the parents would be too drunk to care. I'm thinking this is why the "no kids after 9pm" signs went up so easily.

Jinxi

I really don't compare it with people who "drag their kids to the pub". That was the kinda childhood my partner had. That is blatent child abuse.
But because we don't do this, they(my partner and his sister) think that being drunk, and obviously so in front of children(5, 8,10,12) who take the piss out of their uncle(and funnily its encouraged by their parents who think its hilarious) they thinks its fine.
I don't reallly think its important form a H & S point of view. But froma role modeling point of view I'm a bit horrified.
As I said my family don't drink to access in front of kids. But I clearly remember every incidince of my childhood involving drunk people. A few time my dad got drunk and I remember them all clearly.
Are my own experiences tilting my sensitivity to this?

The Big Red Button

Personally I think that, as long as it's on an occasional basis and as long as the kids' health and well being isn't being compromised, it's not that big a deal.

If it were your own children and you wanted to shield them from alcohol, that would be one thing. But I don't think it's really fair to judge other peoples' parenting choices.

You also have to remember that the eldest of the children in question are ten and twelve. Chances are that, over the next couple of years, they're going to be in situations with other teenagers where alcohol is being consumed/abused. Maybe because they have parents who are open about their alchol consumption, there won't be such a big "mystery" surrounding it for the children. Also, if they've seen their parents getting tipsy, they might be wary of potentially making fools of themselves and therefore drink more sensibly.

It's all well and good talking about parents being "role models" for their children, but when it comes to issues such as alcohol, of course most kids are going to rebel. My opinion is that if parents are open about alcohol consumption, it'll give the kids less to rebel against, you know?

cbyrd

i don't think having a social drink in front of kids in a family enviornment is unacceptable but i'd draw the line at slobbery drunk. it's horrible to look at for one and i think anyone who looks at an occasion to get *locked* is a good sign of immaturity..

I had my sons christening on sunday, at home, i bought in 6 bottles of wine, there was 38 here, 16 of those were kids, i opened a bottle when my kids were in bed to share a glass with my husband.. no-one wanted any, we had great craic and all went home by 8..(they were here from 10am) i went through gallons of coke 7-up and orange:D

i think any adult who doesn't take responsibility for their kids well being if they want to drink is shameful. a pub is no place for a child. its an adults right to go out and have a few drinks without having other peoples bored kids running amok..just as its a kids right to be looked after... in a perfect world i guess.. i do think its time the laws were upgraded;)

smelltheglove

I dont think you are over reacting at all but then I would be of the same mindset of you. Growing up my dad never drank in the house or got locked in front of us, we knew he drank and he got locked but he didnt drink to excess when we were around. My mother enjoyed a bit of wine in her house though, often every evening. My daughters fathers house (he lived with his parents) had a bar in it and they would enjoy a oparty every now and then with friends so I decided when I got my own house there would be no drink, so she could see both sides of it. I have relaxed now and do have an occasional drink at home but I do not like excessive drinking in front of kids, adults might not remember what they have said or done but the kids will and never mind behaviour ultimately the children will most likely lose respect for said adults.

cynder

When my fella moved in with me our daughter was 2, the one rule i had when he moved in was - he couldn't come home drunk, and 8 years later he has only come only drunk around 5 times and the kids were always in bed.

If he wants to have a good bit to drink he spends the night at his mates as they have 6 bedrooms and no kids.

I don't mind people having 1 or 2 drinks around kids but getting tipsy and drunk a definite NO.

Also i had a few friends that were single mothers, they would get pissed and send the babysitter home, i hated that as if there was a fire or a medical emergency they would in no shape to look after the child. I say single mothers because there was no one else in the house with them, if i talked about a married couple of a cohabiting couple there should always be a sober one to look after the kids. If the baby sitter stayed when the drunk mother come home then i have no problem at all, but the baby sitters never stayed.

Nevyn

I have no problem with my kids seeing me have a drink or a glass or wine or two but I don't want them to see me drunk. It's irresponsible and not fair on them to see adults acting 'funny', I never liked seeing it at family gatherings when I was a child and I don't subject my children to it.

Jinxi

Thanks for your opinions. I'm feeling a little less self-doubting.
I cannot(and should not) tell my sis-in-law how to be about her children. I did start up a converstion with her yesterday about it. She defended herself saying that she only ever falls asleep on the couch without actually being sloppy when she is drinking. But I did point out that she ONLY does this when drinking so what her children were seeing was her passing out while drinking and she was a bit taken aback.

My issues, truely, is not how she chooses to raise her kids, but how my partner thinks its normal to do that in front of children. When we have our own is too late for us to have that converstion.
So yesterday we had a bit of a chat and he finally agreed to go to al-anon to talk about his childhood with someone other than me. people who have more experience and are not as involved. He went to the first one last night. he came home emotional but he says he is definatly going again.
I think thats progress.

Khannie

Thaedydal wrote: »

I have no problem with my kids seeing me have a drink or a glass or wine or two but I don't want them to see me drunk. It's irresponsible and not fair on them to see adults acting 'funny', I never liked seeing it at family gatherings when I was a child and I don't subject my children to it.

+1. I still have some crappy memories of seeing my folks drunk.

ntlbell

Jinxi wrote: »

I really don't compare it with people who "drag their kids to the pub". That was the kinda childhood my partner had. That is blatent child abuse.
But because we don't do this, they(my partner and his sister) think that being drunk, and obviously so in front of children(5, 8,10,12) who take the piss out of their uncle(and funnily its encouraged by their parents who think its hilarious) they thinks its fine.
I don't reallly think its important form a H & S point of view. But froma role modeling point of view I'm a bit horrified.
As I said my family don't drink to access in front of kids. But I clearly remember every incidince of my childhood involving drunk people. A few time my dad got drunk and I remember them all clearly.
Are my own experiences tilting my sensitivity to this?

I think you're slightly over sensitive about the whole thing.

I mean calling people who bring a child to a pub child abuse is a tad excessive, there is a right way and a wrong way to do everything. Taken kids to the pub and leaving them with a coke and a bag o crisps while you spend hours getting slaughtered is one thing.

A family meal on a Sunday afternoon in a quiet pub is another. (I don't do this personally, but I don't see the abuse)

I think it's important that kids see drink been taken in a responsible fashion but I can't see too much harm in seeing a bit of excess as long as it's not aggressive/violent (falling around drunk). Again, depends on the age of the kids, their personality traits etc.

My father liked a pint and my mother never drank but she never tried to hide me away from the situations and seeing both sides of the coin has made me a very responsible drinker

were people who I knew were kept away from it seem to be more inclined to abuse it especially in the teenage years.

It's about balance and judging what's right for your own kids and mostly only their parents can do that.

Anxious/nervous/shy/inward kids tend to not be very comfortable around it where more bouncy/outward/social-able kids love being around it, I have no evidence to back that up, it's just what I witness personally.

I think your right to have double taken on your BF's drinking, as it has a baring on your future and what you want for yours. But I'd tend to leave the sis to get on with what she thinks right for hers.

ash23

I used to have a real hangup about drinking at home. My dad was an alcoholic and my mother has a real thing about drink and never allowed it in the house and thought anyone who drank at home had a problem.

I used to feel a sense of dread when my ex had a beer in the evenings and I felt a sense of shame when buying alcohol with the weekly groceries.

However, in the last couple of years I became a single parent and I socialise more at peoples houses and i have more people socialising at mine.

I've never gotten "drunk" in front of my child but I would have gotten tipsy or merry. By that I mean I can feel the effects of the alcohol but I can walk and talk normally albeit a little more enthusiastic than usual.

My daughter has seen me hungover and once or twice very badly hungover (not a proud moment for me!).

I think I used to be extreme in my views because my attitude to alcohol was skewed. I've a more relaxed approach now.

Kimono-Girl

in my opinion,
coming from my back ground where every major family occasion was a 'piss up' i personally loved them as a child although some members of my family drank heavily (mostly the ones we tapped for money when they were drunk:D) i loved the staying up late and playing with my cousins till late into the night, and the chipper, and the taxi ride home and falling into bed, although this would only happen at max 5 times a year i loved it! and it never effected the respect we had for our relations,

as a parent now, i have no problem with my daughter seeing family members drinking, we have however a rule in place where there is at least one sober adult with her at all times, mostly me

as i do not drink alcohol well not in the past two years. but she has been at a few family occasions on both sides where people have been smashed, they are just not let near her when they are.

The Big Red Button

You know, I'm not a parent myself. But I do consider myself to be in a "position of responsibility" as such when it comes to my youngest sisters, aged seventeen and nine.

My father very rarely drinks. If my mother ever drinks at home, it is a glass of wine with/after dinner the odd evening, she certainly never gets drunk.

However, myself and three of my younger brothers (who are aged 19-23) have mini-parties the odd weekend when we're at home, where a few of our friends come over before a night out. We drink, we chat, we have fun. My two afore-mentioned younger sisters are almost invariably a part of these "parties", and are the centre of attention, and they love it!

My seventeen year old sister is extremely open with me about what her and her friends get up to. For her, there is no mystery about alcohol. You drink it, you get drunk, whatever. No big deal. If she ever wants to taste whatever it is we're drinking, I'm happy to give her a glass. She doesn't get drunk, or look for more. She doesn't drink with her friends - she just isn't bothered spending the money. In fact, for a seventeen year old, she has a really healthy attitude towards alcohol. She has never gotten drunk, or even tipsy. She might have the occasional drink at home, but I don't believe that this does her any harm.

Similarly I would hope that my nine year old sister will be the same. Even at her age, she gives out sh*t to my brothers if they drink more than a couple of cans before they go out! And she will take the p*ss of them the next day if they got tipsy. Even at her age she can see how alcohol can be fun, but how it can also turn you into an idiot.

Just to stress, even if me/my siblings/my friends are drinking, my parents are always around and are sober.

Maybe it's harsh, but as far as I'm concerned, kids will have to confront alcohol and the surrounding issues at some stage. And that time will always come earlier than expected rather than later. It's naive not to acknowledge that.

I am aware that my family situation is a bit unique, with the large age differences etc. But even so ... it should be acknowledged that teenagers will drink. Even the "sensible" ones! No matter how vigilant you are as a parent, you cannot shield them from this - and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. In my opinion, it's just better to meet the problem head-on. At least then your children might feel comfortable talking to you about it.

Das Kitty

Khannie wrote: »

+1. I still have some crappy memories of seeing my folks drunk.

Yep me three. I remember one particular occasion where one of my parents' judgement was so compromised that they actually took us home in a car driven by someone who couldn't even keep the engine running they were that drunk, terrifying. I sincerely hope to never be drunk in front of my son, I hate even being drunk at all.

LC2010HIS

a girl i know - her parents are heavy drinkers. As a result, she has a drinking prob. She ticks all the boxes..

TargetWidow

I came from non-drinking parents (my dad was the child of an alcoholic, and he "gave it up" for my older sister when she was little and very dangerously ill in hospital -deal with god type situation). Our house was a strictly no drinking atmosphere. I never grew up around normal drinking. My older sister got pregnant at 24 (the girl he had quit drinking for as the biggest sacrifice he could think of

), and he fell off the wagon. He went on a bender for a week, drink driving and being really abusive to her and her boyfriend, but like a really quiet man the rest of the week. I never saw him so quiet at home! I put two and two together and figured out he had a drink problem himself. He was a fairly difficult man to deal with without the drink, because he was a dry drunk.

My brother does not and never has drank. He is married to an alcoholic. She drinks all afternoon some days with her pals in the kitchen, and hangs out with people who collect their kids from school after a feed of Irish coffees with her. He makes a big demonstration at parties of pouring her drink for her so that we can all see how ok with it he is. Parties at their house are weird. He doesn't drink at all (fine by me, I'm often the driver in the group and don't bother myself 8 times out of 10) but his wife will get slaughtered. I mean vomiting all over the Christening of her child, saying really inappropriate things just as soon as it starts to hit her system.. all the usual markers. She never drinks moderately. Ever. So their kids have no role model at home for "normal" drinking either. Now one of their daughters looks like she has a problem too. The other kids are fine, they don't seem to put such a high value on it. This one's facebook status updates are a litany of hangover updates and quantities drank. It is tragic.

Out of the 8 of us,
One drinks moderately himself but married an anorexic (diagnosed and still suffering)
The one above doesn't drink at all but married an alcoholic.
Sister gets fairly hammered at all family events and married gambling addict.
Brother drinks "normally" and married really nice teacher, but is workaholic himself.
I hardly bother with the stuff (much preferring cake) and when I do its one or two, but I married a recovering alcoholic.
Younger brother is daily smoker of hash whose partner looks and behaves suspiciously anorectic
Other younger brother is out and out drug addict/says ex-sometimes dealer who dates these fabulous straight laced strong women who he hopes will reform him,
Youngest sister is recovering addict/alcoholic.

So in summary, breeding beats feeding. We all have the "ism's" despite growing up in a drink free house. The drink is just the tip of the iceberg. The whole culture of the family and how it does business is much more important. If it's in them it will come out. Somehow. Regardless of how much you try to protect them. Having said that they need to see the full spectrum drinking behaviours so that they have a clear understanding that while people may occasionally get tipsy, getting out of your box on a regular basis is dangerous and unhealthy and is not normal. The best you can hope for is to instill in them the idea that you trust them to make their own minds up, and that you are there for them if they ever run into trouble with drink or drugs.

I certainly wouldn't permit my children to be around someone regularly who is drunk. The AlAnon idea is a great one. I do however disagree with the outmoded idea that AA and Alanon have that someone has to hit bottom themselves before they can be offered help. Some people's bottom is 6ft under and I have been involved in several interventions with the successful outcome of "raising the bottom" for the individual concerned. As they say there, take what you like and leave the rest.

Jinxi

Thanks TargetWIdow,

I completely agree that alcoholism is a disease(and a family one at that). The history in my partners family is another version of your own. The norm in their family is off centre. All the children are "heavy drinkers", some I would describe as functioning alcoholics. Its not the freqency or amounts that make me say that, but the emotional relationship they have with alcohol.

As I said, I can't interfere in the way my sis-in-law parents her children(she too married an addict), but I feel like before my partner and I have children, I can make him confront his and his family's weird relationship with alcohol. I would hate one of my kids to be effected by their fathers relationship with alcohol. And as TW pointed out clearly, you don't have to be activley drinking to have an effect on your childrens habits.

I think that if you have to question or analyse your relationship with alcohol, then something is amiss.

In my house, it was never a big deal. My mothers family owned a pub, and so she never wanted to be in one(we lived next door to it). We would pop in to see our grandparents during the day. My mum rarely drank(3 time a year) my dad was a friday night in pub guy. As I said previously, I clearly remember the rew time he came home sozzled...was not a nice feeling.

I was allowed to have three cans of beer at christmas from 16 onwards. I rarely drank outside the home. Didn't "go out" with my mates until I was almost 18. Never loved the pub/nightclub scene.

Now I like a bottle of wine on a saturday night and maybe a glass on a wednesday. I'm fine with that. Will probably revisit it when we have kids.

astrofool

I would be careful about going to extremes on the anti-drink, kids are going to be exposed to drink at some stage, and seeing their parents be responsible with drink, is a good way to ensure they do the same. If an incident does occur (partner being too drunk as above), the child should know why it happened, and what the consequences of that were (everybody making fun of you, large headache the next day).

gsxr1

Both my wife and I would have a bottle of wine on a friday night with the family pizza (or the like).

Kids would be in bed by the time we where on to out second glass .

We would also go to the pub with them. On a sunday evening. Everyone knows them in the bar.
I dont think it is bad parenting. They are only there till 7pm to see the trad band. They love it. So do we.

They know how ugly a person gets when they have had one to many.

Cant see the problem in it to be honest. Its a good example for when they become old enough to have a pint.

joes girls

My ex husband came from a family that seeing their dad drunk was very normal. He is what i would call someone that has a DRINK PROBLEM.
A drink problem to me is when someone does not know when to stop.
All of my ex's family would be very fond of drinking, and every occasion would involve drinking, and me knowing that my EX would be drunk, would normally not drink because i always felt someone should be able to look after the kids, plus i knew what was coming when we would get home.
My ex was an aggressive drunk, more mental than anything else, and always only against me not the kids, until my teenager became old enough to have an opinion, then he started on her, first time i let it go(which i know i should not have) second time i asked him to leave the house, it was at 11pm on a Saturday night, i had been at work till 10 so i had no idea how long he had been drinking, asked him to leave, which after the normal shouting and pushing he did about an hour later, that was the end of my marriage.
I can honestly tell you i loved my husband very much, but his drinking turned me against him, and i had lost any love i had for him a long time before we split. I never talked to him about it or ever told other people or my family about it, just let on to be happy. I often do think that if i had of confronted him about his drinking maybe things would have been different!
I do have a drink at home at the weekend if i want one, normal when the kids are in bed, i have been drunk on more than one occasion my life, i have no real big issues with drink,and would ask my 17 year old if she wants one, she never does.
Drinking and a load of empty cans in the kitchen in the morning was the norm for my kids, it's not anymore, i would never hide that i have a drink from them, but they have never seen me drunk.

Nevyn

joes girls have you considered letting her go to AL-Teen to see if she'd get anything out of it? or going to al anon yourself to deal with the fall out yoruself?

joes girls

Thanks for your reply Thaedydal, i never did either of the two. Drink is no-longer a big deal in my home. I did turn my home to alcohol free zone after he went, but a few weeks later i wanted to sit down and relax with a glass of wine, so that ended. Don't think there is harm in letting kids know that there is a normal way of drinking.
I wont stop any of my 3 lads from drinking, but i will be keeping my eye on them when and if they do start.
As for my teenager, yes i should have looked into something like al-teen for her, was a hard year for her after the split, and alot of what was going on in her head she kept from me, things are better in that area now.
But yes Defo anyone out there that has had the same sort of story as mine, should look for help for older children, it would have been easier for her to talk to someone away from the family.

Nevyn

Even if the person with the drink problem is not in the house there can be patterns of behaviour in the family that persist from when they were living there, children of alcholics who have been impacted can often have a range of coping isms which can hold them back in life unless they are aware of them.

http://www.dcu.ie/students/counselling/adultchildrenalcoholics.shtml

Has alcohol affected your life?

Alcoholism runs in families. Children of alcoholics run a higher risk of developing alcoholism than other children. Adult children of alcoholics also tend to marry alcoholics. Although they may not be aware of it at the time, a pattern is being created.

Adult children of alcoholics tend to adopt roles within their families in an effort to cope with the everyday dysfunction. Such roles may include the following:

Responsible: Over serious and self reliant, difficulty in trusting others, unable to relax, need to be in control

Adjuster: Pride themselves on being flexible. Avoids taking charge

Placater: Takes care of others, while ignoring their own needs.

These have been characterised as:

The Care Taker: Self esteem based on how many people they take care of, the “fixer”,

The People Pleaser: Someone who is unable to say no, who never wants to make anyone angry,

The Martyr: Self esteem is based on suffering more than anyone else who always puts others first

The Workaholic: Self image based on activity. S/he has learned from the family that you are only as good as what you produce,

The Perfectionist: No matter how well they perform or how much they do, it is never good enough,

The Stump: Self image is based on survival. Survival and safety is achieved by fading into the woodwork to such an extent that no one knows they are there.

These roles and characteristics have also been described as the Family Hero/, Super Kid, Scapegoat, Problem Kid, the Lost Child, Mascot or Family Clown.

A family in which there is an alcohol problem becomes a dysfunctional family where members avoid, rationalise or cover up problems and carefully guard or deny secrets. There is a tendency among family members to indulge and distrust feelings and conceal them in order to avoid dealing with their own issues. They do this by judging, criticising, blaming or attempting to control others. In addition, family members may violate one another's personal boundaries or remain aloof and unavailable behind well fortified emotional and psychological defences.

There are a number of core issues which affect the adult children of alcoholics. They can hate and fear being out of control in any situation. They may distrust both themselves and others. This is frequently the result of being told lies within the family. Adult children of alcoholics learn to minimise and ignore their feelings as emotions and feelings are perceived as being wrong and bad. They often see things in black and white terms and engage in “all or nothing” thinking. They may suffer from dissociation which provides them with an emotional anaesthetic. They can learn to separate themselves from the reality of what is going on in the family. Such adult children may be adrenaline “junkies”, creating crisis after crisis to survive. They may also take on responsibility for everything that is going on.

These core issues are often triggered by:

* Intimate relationships requiring warmth, trust and sharing
* Major life transitions or stressors which encourage that these adult children of alcoholics return automatically to old patterns of behaviour
* Performance and the imperative that “I must get it right”.

Can an adult child of an alcoholic move on from here?

Therapy / counselling involves looking at the painful family experience that the person comes from and which promoted low self-esteem, secrets, jealousy, suspicion, rigid attitudes, entangled relationships, manipulation and control. The goal is to move towards a healthier family system that builds self-worth, where communication is open, where there is trust, love independence and growth. The person is encouraged to break the pattern of secrecy and create new traditions and open mindedness. Assertiveness techniques may be acquired. Role playing may also be used to challenge the inner critic in order to identify the critic and the message it sends.

cynder

Well I know I'm defiantly the responsible one.