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2010 Dublin Marathon- Sub 3 mentored thread

ecoli

Okay I have been approached about setting up a sub 3 mentoring thread. Before i start to issue clarification this thread is alot like Lynx ads. Just because links ads say Lynx will get you beautiful women doesnt make it a certainty. Likewise here the aim is to do are best to get you to 2.5X.XX but I cannot guarantee it.

This is geared towards the DCM and is a 18 week plan starting at 40 miles with a 4 week buildling phase getting up to 65 miles during course of plan. The plan includes 1 long run (15-20) one medium length (10-13) and culmination of hill work and marathon specific sessions @ MP and HMP

The plan will start 21st of June so anyone who is interested should be trying to hit around 40 miles coming into the plan however the fact that the first four weeks is base building gives people a chance to catch up. Anyone interested in following the plan put your name down and get to know each other. The idea behind these mentoring threads is not just to provide a training plan but also i full support in terms of encouragement and advice. I will also be here to answer questions as best i can and hopefully get a few of the Sub 3 guys from this forum to give there only insight and advice.

So put your name down and your previous best and Lets get to work:D

Name|Previous best |Mileage this week | Comments

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smmoore79

Will be keeping an eye on this one with keen interest. I'll be aiming sub 3 in Dublin but will be following a plan with a little less mileage (P&D 18 week 55 mile max plan).

theboyblunder

ecoli wrote: »

Okay I have been approached about setting up a sub 3 mentoring thread. Before i start to issue clarification this thread is alot like Lynx ads. Just because links ads say Lynx will get you beautiful women doesnt make it a certainty. Likewise here the aim is to do are best to get you to 2.5X.XX but I cannot guarantee it.

This is geared towards the DCM and is a 18 week plan starting at 40 miles with a 4 week buildling phase getting up to 65 miles during course of plan. The plan includes 1 long run (15-20) one medium length (10-13) and culmination of hill work and marathon specific sessions @ MP and HMP

The plan will start 21st of June so anyone who is interested should be trying to hit around 40 miles coming into the plan however the fact that the first four weeks is base building gives people a chance to catch up. Anyone interested in following the plan put your name down and get to know each other. The idea behind these mentoring threads is not just to provide a training plan but also i full support in terms of encouragement and advice. I will also be here to answer questions as best i can and hopefully get a few of the Sub 3 guys from this forum to give there only insight and advice.

So put your name down and your previous best and Lets get to work:D

Name|Previous best |Mileage this week | Comments

good idea ecoli. thanks.

Im trying for sub 3 but in longford...will be watching closely for good advice

donothoponpop

Name|Previous best |Mileage this week | Comments
donothoponpop|3:10||

Great, look forward to working on this!

theboyblunder

ecoli wrote: »

The plan includes 1 long run (15-20) one medium length (10-13) and culmination of hill work and marathon specific sessions @ MP and HMP

Just checking - thats per week right?

Oisin11178

theboyblunder wrote: »

Just checking - thats per week right?

Are you a man or a mouse:-)
Good idea. Its come to early for me but ill be dipping in and getting some training tips.

RacoonQueen

Not that I'm aiming for sub-3 at this point but how many 65 mile weeks will there be? Do people reckon that you need to push the mileage that high in order to run sub 3? I think the clown ran it on the 55 mpw schedule?

ecoli

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Not that I'm aiming for sub-3 at this point but how many 65 mile weeks will there be? Do people reckon that you need to push the mileage that high in order to run sub 3? I think the clown ran it on the 55 mpw schedule?

65 is the max the mileage would go during the plan. There are only 2 60+ weeks the majority are around 55. Agree that there are some people who can do it on less, I know people who have missed out on the 3hr mark doing 65+ and know people who have done it on 40 but as this is a general plan rather than tailoring for a specific person.

ecoli

theboyblunder wrote: »

Just checking - thats per week right?

yes that is in one week. Don't be alarmed though there is a building phase to this you are not thrown in at the deep end.

theboyblunder

ecoli wrote: »

yes that is in one week. Don't be alarmed though there is a building phase to this you are not thrown in at the deep end.

Cheers ecoli. Thats great - im more or less doing that kind of thing at the moment most weeks so feel nice and validated (wont last long - prob until my next pmp run

). I am following P&D but substituting the med-long runs for PMP runs of similar distances.

Looking forward to your take on things training the Dublin hopefuls.

ecoli

Just to give people a taste of the schedule i will post a few of the key weeks from the schedule to give people a better idea of where i am coming from

Week 1
Mon Rest
Tues 8 miles easy
Wed 6 miles easy + 4x200m strides
Thurs 8 miles easy
Fri 4 miles easy
Sat 7 miles easy
Sunday 8 miles easy

Week 5
Mon Rest
Tues 4 miles easy, 4x2 min hills, 2 mile cooldown
Wed 10 miles easy
Thurs 8 miles easy
Fri 2 mile warm up, 3x2k @ HMP, 2 mile cooldown
Sat 6 miles recovery
Sun 16 miles easy

Week 10 (max week)
Mon Rest
Tues 8 miles easy
Wed 12 miles easy
Thurs 2 mile warm up, 2 x 3m @ HMP, 2 mile cool down
Fri 8 miles easy
Sat 6 miles easy
Sun 20 miles easy

Week 13 (race week)
Mon rest
Tues 8 miles easy
Wed 7 miles easy
Thurs Rest
Fri 2-3 miles recovery
Sat HALF MARATHON
Sun 6 miles easy

Week 15
Mon Rest
Tues 8 miles easy
Wed 10 miles easy
Thurs 2 miles warm up, 5 x 3 min hills, 2 miles cool down
Fri 8 miles easy
Sat 4 miles easy
Sun 10 miles easy 10 miles @ MP

Krusty_Clown

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Do people reckon that you need to push the mileage that high in order to run sub 3? I think the clown ran it on the 55 mpw schedule?

'...the clown'? 55 mpw schedule maybe, but I ran a fair bit more than the plan specified. I was running 55-62 miles a few weeks. The only difference between that and 65 miles is a 4-5 mile recovery run.

Looks like a good plan... No doubles?

ecoli

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

'...the clown'? 55 mpw schedule maybe, but I ran a fair bit more than the plan specified. I was running 55-62 miles a few weeks. The only difference between that and 65 miles is a 4-5 mile recovery run.

Looks like a good plan... No doubles?

I was considering putting them in as i am a great advocate of doubles(as seen in my own log) but with life's stresses i thought getting out once a day would be a better option for people in general as it can be hard to get out once a day with commitments in general.

tempo

I think this is a good idea,hopefully people can share their ideas and problems along the way.
While your input an enthusiasim is great im not sure if you are experienced enough to be giving out plans for sub 3hour marathon.

Krusty_Clown

ecoli seems has a solid understanding of the necessary principles (far more than most sub-three runners). I'm sure the more experienced runners will be quick to drop in and offer some advice and encouragement, and where it's done in a positive way, productive feedback.

I look forward to watching this thread develop, and hopefully use some of the advice for my next goal.

shels4ever

Looks good one thing that I found really helpful in some plans was the flexibility of an optional session, not sure if this is something you coudl work in.

It mainly focused on the person and what their strong and weak areas were. For for example someone how may have slightly slower base speed could work on that in one session, and another person could do strenght work on the same day. In that way the plan would cater for people across the board and not be just another generic plan.

This way its closer to coaching as apposed to just setting a ridged plan to follow. But would need more communication between coach and running.

Peckham

Will be watching this with interest and hopefully will be able to contribute, but I'm aiming for Berlin (4 weeks before Dublin), so won't make sense for me to follow the training.

ecoli - do you plan to include anything faster than PMP within your long runs? Having read Daniels I'm interested in the tempo pace segments he includes within a few long runs.

Also, what pace range would you use for "easy" for a sub-3 candidate? Do you differentiate between long run easy and recovery?

ecoli

tempo wrote: »

I think this is a good idea,hopefully people can share their ideas and problems along the way.
While your input an enthusiasim is great im not sure if you are experienced enough to be giving out plans for sub 3hour marathon.

I understand your concern regarding me giving out plans. The truth is when i was first approached about mentoring this thread i said the exact same thing and some where approached and given first refusal because while i feel that i can get people under three like you pointed out i have not completed a marathon. My running experience extends extends to half marathons of which i have ran 1.17 and paced a 1.29. This plan was not taken lightly and alot of research and my own experience of 70+ mile weeks has been thought out to create the plan.
Many people may not want to follow my advice for this reason which is understandable but it gives the people the option if they are looking for one or have tried with other plans and they didnt work out for them

ecoli

shels4ever wrote: »

Looks good one thing that I found really helpful in some plans was the flexibility of an optional session, not sure if this is something you coudl work in.

It mainly focused on the person and what their strong and weak areas were. For for example someone how may have slightly slower base speed could work on that in one session, and another person could do strenght work on the same day. In that way the plan would cater for people across the board and not be just another generic plan.

This way its closer to coaching as apposed to just setting a ridged plan to follow. But would need more communication between coach and running.

This seems to be alot more like coaching and depending on the numbers i may be able to do this. I have few athletes which i have started to coach like this but this thread was more lines of the other mentoring threads. Ideally schedules should be completely specific to the athlete but some times we can't always get that. Again the numbers may be determinant of how much personal communication can be given

aero2k

Hi ecoli,

Great idea for a thread. Best of luck with it, the structure looks good.

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Do people reckon that you need to push the mileage that high in order to run sub 3?

Hi RQ,

I'm still working on my detailed retrospective training log for Edinburgh. I was surprised to find that over 30 weeks, my average mileage was 55pw, and since I run every day that's only 7.9 per day. If I skipped an easy run I'd only have been at 50pw. The longest week was 69 miles, with a few over 60.
I'll have to have a look back for DCM '09, but I suspect the mileage was a little less then. I'd put the improvement since down to more quality, i.e. faster sessions.

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I look forward to watching this thread develop, and hopefully use some of the advice for my next goal.

Come on now Krusty, don't be coy....

ecoli

Peckham wrote: »

Will be watching this with interest and hopefully will be able to contribute, but I'm aiming for Berlin (4 weeks before Dublin), so won't make sense for me to follow the training.

ecoli - do you plan to include anything faster than PMP within your long runs? Having read Daniels I'm interested in the tempo pace segments he includes within a few long runs.

Also, what pace range would you use for "easy" for a sub-3 candidate? Do you differentiate between long run easy and recovery?

Mostly within the long runs the quickest would be at MP. There are workouts which work at HMP which will clock a up to 8 miles in the session as this pace. These sessions as well as hills help to give the strength needed to compliment long runs.

Easy runs should be at comfortable talking pace while i don't like giving exact figures but rather an athlete to listen to there body i would say pace should be somewhere between 7.15 - 7.45

Krusty_Clown

aero2k wrote: »

Come on now Krusty, don't be coy....

Lol. There's no coy! 2:48:xx or die trying (not literally!).

shels4ever

ecoli wrote: »

I understand your concern regarding me giving out plans. The truth is when i was first approached about mentoring this thread i said the exact same thing and some where approached and given first refusal because while i feel that i can get people under three like you pointed out i have not completed a marathon. My running experience extends extends to half marathons of which i have ran 1.17 and paced a 1.29. This plan was not taken lightly and alot of research and my own experience of 70+ mile weeks has been thought out to create the plan.
Many people may not want to follow my advice for this reason which is understandable but it gives the people the option if they are looking for one or have tried with other plans and they didnt work out for them

I dont think you need to have run sub 3 to coach some to sub 3 . Ok it may help in some regards but not all great coaches were great runners . I'll be keeping a good eye on this thread now

tempo

shels4ever wrote: »

I dont think you need to have run sub 3 to coach some to sub 3 . Ok it may help in some regards but not all great coaches were great runners . I'll be keeping a good eye on this thread now

I do agree with what you say and i have alot of experience of running myself but If you havn't ran a certain distance how can you relate to people on the so called ''wall'' or differn't aspects that are specific to the marathon.
I think its a great idea and probably Ecoli is one of the most knowledgeable on this site.
hope we get good feedback from People on here and who want to share there thoughts and ask some questions.

ecoli

13 days till the plan kicks in time for a Roll call to get people to know each other (if we have any:p)

Name|Previous best |Mileage this week | Comments
donothoponpop|3:10||
smmoore79| 3.10||

smmoore79

ecoli wrote: »

13 days till the plan kicks in time for a Roll call to get people to know each other (if we have any:p)

Name|Previous best |Mileage this week | Comments
donothoponpop|3:10||

Im not very good with IT so Stick me down in that table above! Cheers! PB is last years Dublin in 3 hr 10 mins. Hopefully next PB will be Dublin this year :rolleyes:

runningcoach

100 % agree with shels4ever. Best of luck Ecoli with it.

Speedy44

ecoli wrote: »

Okay I have been approached about setting up a sub 3 mentoring thread. Before i start to issue clarification this thread is alot like Lynx ads. Just because links ads say Lynx will get you beautiful women doesnt make it a certainty. Likewise here the aim is to do are best to get you to 2.5X.XX but I cannot guarantee it.

This is geared towards the DCM and is a 18 week plan starting at 40 miles with a 4 week buildling phase getting up to 65 miles during course of plan. The plan includes 1 long run (15-20) one medium length (10-13) and culmination of hill work and marathon specific sessions @ MP and HMP

The plan will start 21st of June so anyone who is interested should be trying to hit around 40 miles coming into the plan however the fact that the first four weeks is base building gives people a chance to catch up. Anyone interested in following the plan put your name down and get to know each other. The idea behind these mentoring threads is not just to provide a training plan but also i full support in terms of encouragement and advice. I will also be here to answer questions as best i can and hopefully get a few of the Sub 3 guys from this forum to give there only insight and advice.

So put your name down and your previous best and Lets get to work:D

Name|Previous best |Mileage this week | Comments
Speedy44 - 3:26 - 47mls - On the way

donothoponpop

Name|Previous best |Mileage this week | Comments
donothoponpop|3:10|40|
smmoore79| 3.10||
Speedy44|3:26|47|On the way:)

smmoore79

donothoponpop wrote: »

Name|Previous best |Mileage this week | Comments
donothoponpop|3:10|40|
smmoore79| 3.10|26|
Speedy44|3:26|47|On the way:)

update

ecoli

Name|Previous best |Mileage this week | Comments
donothoponpop|3:10|40|
smmoore79| 3.10||
Speedy44|3:26|47|On the way:)

Hope everyone's training is going well. Just a quick reminder that training plan will start from next week i will put up the weeks training in the next day or two. If we have anyone else who is interested dont be afraid to speak up and let yourself be known we dont bite i promise