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What happened to the Pub??

ardinn

For those of you who have left the pub scene and taken up home-drinking, what were your reasons?

What would you like to see happen in your local that would get you out again?

What do you think the local means in your area / or should mean?

Do you believe people have been forced into their homes by drink-drive laws / the smoking ban?

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stepbar

ardinn wrote: »

For those of you who have left the pub scene and taken up home-drinking, what were your reasons?

What would you like to see happen in your local that would get you out again?

What do you think the local means in your area / or should mean?

Do you believe people have been forced into their homes by drink-drive laws / the smoking ban?

It's quite simple. 4 cans of Carlsberg for under a fiver where I live in Dublin. The same 4 pints in a pub in Dublin range anywhere from 16 - 22eur.

ardinn

But is money that tight that people cant go to the pub? Is this such a big issue. Before I go any further, I am a publican and will probably be slated here as so, but, is the social scene of the local not a draw to people anymore due to / Facebook, Boards, CSI??

budgemook

stepbar wrote: »

It's quite simple. 4 cans of Carlsberg for under a fiver where I live in Dublin. The same 4 pints in a pub in Dublin range anywhere from 16 - 22eur.

Indeed, The "few pints" thing is still going strong in England but over there you can have a few for a tenner. Here a few will cost you about twenty. The Government and greedy pubs ruined it for everyone. For shame.

koHd

Double post. Sorry. Using mobile phone and it can act up.

Lando Griffin

I used to go to my local play pool, darts poker you would be serving yourself pints and leaving money in the till the odd night as the owner would be a bit under the weather from the long day serving his clients. It was a great pub until he sold it and the new owner ripped it apart and tried to make it cool and modern and attract a younger crowd but it didnt work. A small pubwith a few drinkers is far better than a large pub with few drinkers

koHd

The price gap between a few cans in and a few pints out is too great. Price of cans should be raised, and price of pints should be lowered.

Right now I can get 8 cans of bavaria for 8.99 and have a good laugh in. Or spend 40 euro on pints out. And also have to get a taxi home for a tenner. Adding up to 50 quid versus 8.99.

I can't be spending 50 quid on one night out right now. So 8.99 wins every time.

If pints in pubs were around 1 euro more expensive than a can I would definitely go out more often as the extra euro per drink is worth it for the atmosphere. But right now pints are 3 euro more than a can. Which really adds up over the night.

questionmark?

Money is the biggest barrier. Think about a night out even a quite one. U plan on drinking no more than three pints. So first you cant legally drive so taxi lets say average 12€ - 20€ (i know it varies widely) three pints anywhere between 4.30 and 5.00 depending on where u live plus the taxi home. Thats a lot of money. I know you can say maybe ur local is within walking distance but think about the irish weather. Or €5 in ur local offie and the comfort of ur own sitting room and the idea of one or three isnt really an option for many people.

ardinn

budgemook wrote: »

Indeed, The "few pints" thing is still going strong in England but over there you can have a few for a tenner. Here a few will cost you about twenty. The Government and greedy pubs ruined it for everyone. For shame.

Look, Pub prices are not there to try and bankrupt you while turning publicans into millionares! They are a generally a fair reflection on the costs incurred + a profit margin (which every business needs) in order to operate. We have 2 pubs and both are struggling. overheads eat any money making ability the business needs to develop and continue.

But that said your point is that the cost of €4.00 (average) per pint is excessive?

Compared to many other leisure activities I strongly believe it is one of the best value.

Cinema Ticket for 2 - €20 + Snacks could come close to €50 (yes it does, I often go and usually in the €45 range for me and the missus)

Bowling for 2 for one Hour - €40

Etc Etc

Does anyone agree after having a good think about it that maybe the price is not the issue.

Im just trying to look at other activities and loosen peoples thinking a bit, not shying away from the fact that most answers will be the price.

_blank_

ardinn wrote: »

But is money that tight that people cant go to the pub? Is this such a big issue. Before I go any further, I am a publican and will probably be slated here as so, but, is the social scene of the local not a draw to people anymore due to / Facebook, Boards, CSI??

Firstly, you will be treated with respect here, as all of our posters are. I'll make sure of it.

Secondly, fair play to you for coming and posting here, I really hope you stick around to address points, and engage in discussion. You'll have to realise that people are going to have fairly robust opinions on this subject. Don't take them personally, and try to ignore anyone who is rude etc.

Now, where to start with your question.

A. I don't like lager, or guinness on tap. I do, however, like Ale. So, what are MY choices in a pub? Smithwicks normally, some places have Macardles, but they are few and far between and large bottles of Guinness aren't that prevalent either, but it's getting better. I just don't want to pay nearly a fiver for something I don't really want to drink, when I can go to a off licence, or Tesco and get what I want for about 150% cheaper.

B. When do I go to a pub, either me or my OH is driving, To drink coke all night is more expensive than drinking beer. To drink cordial most publicans charge more than a bottle of cordial costs them for a splash in a glass with some water. Simply, it's a rip-off, so I'd rather stay home with some friends, or go to a friend's house with the beer I want to drink.

C. there is a pub near me that is a nice stroll on a summer evening, or a cheap-ish taxi trip. They DO sell something I like on tap (O'Hara's Stout), at a decent price (€4 a pint). I go there probably about once a month, they have nice, reasonably priced, food too, which is a bonus. The food isn't some deep fried crapola either.

D. Blaring thump-thump music. No thanks. Again, that pub I mentioned with the O'Hara's, they have a small band playing every Saturday night, but they don't interfere with my night. They play at a volume that isn't intrusive. If I want to listen, I can hear them, but if I want to have a chat, I can do that without getting hoarse.

E. I don't like being treated like a piece of dirt by the staff. I want to be made feel welcome. I want the barman to remember my order, even if it's two- or three-deep at the bar. When he catches my eye I want him to ask me "Same again?".

F. I like the bar staff to be properly trained. I want to be able to ask for a Smithwicks with a Guinness head and not have to teach the moron behind the counter how to pour it. Or wait for five minutes as he waits for it to fizz down again, after the fifth time he's pulled it incorrectly.

G. I want a proper place to smoke, not some street corner.

H. It's not that I prefer to be at home, it's just that the pub isn't attractive as an option to me any more.

What would get me back?

Cheaper prices.

More choice. I actually enjoy going to that pub for the O'Hara's. I also enjoy going to places like The Porter House, The Bull & Castle to try new stuff, and not have Carlsberg, Heineken, Bud and Guinness shoved down my throat.

Publican's not being all over the radio claiming poverty when the prices keep going up.

ardinn

questionmark? wrote: »

Money is the biggest barrier. Think about a night out even a quite one. U plan on drinking no more than three pints. So first you cant legally drive so taxi lets say average 12€ - 20€ (i know it varies widely) three pints anywhere between 4.30 and 5.00 depending on where u live plus the taxi home. Thats a lot of money. I know you can say maybe ur local is within walking distance but think about the irish weather. Or €5 in ur local offie and the comfort of ur own sitting room and the idea of one or three isnt really an option for many people.

O.K. Forgetting the taxi the most your going to spend is €15.00 for three hours (or whatever) in the local with the locals, having a drink and a laugh. I understand that some people actually need taxi's and others require babysitters etc but most people are in walking distance of a pub.

If you go into an off licence, Even only to get 2 cans for yourself for the night or a bottle of wine, Your going to spend a tenner. Not much difference really...

questionmark?

ardinn wrote: »

Cinema Ticket for 2 - €20 + Snacks could come close to €50 (yes it does, I often go and usually in the €45 range for me and the missus)

Bowling for 2 for one Hour - €40

:eek:

Sweet jebus a trip to the cinema for two costs me 8.50 x2

Bowling 30€ or 20€ if i print off their internet vouchers.

Often people are put off by the hassle of going out sometimes. Waiting for taxis, bouncers on power trips, fights etc...

jimmycrackcorm

My local pub is to far to walk. A few years ago I'd have chanced driving after two to three points but those days are gone.

Also the price differential is so great now compared to off licence prices that pubs just appear to be extortionate in comparison.

_blank_

ardinn wrote: »

But that said your point is that the cost of €4.00 (average) per pint is excessive?

Mate, the average price of a pint is NOT four quid.

_blank_

ardinn wrote: »

O.K. Forgetting the taxi the most your going to spend is €15.00 for three hours (or whatever) in the local with the locals, having a drink and a laugh. I understand that some people actually need taxi's and others require babysitters etc but most people are in walking distance of a pub.

If you go into an off licence, Even only to get 2 cans for yourself for the night or a bottle of wine, Your going to spend a tenner. Not much difference really...

Two bottles of my favourite beer costs €4 in Tesco.

Two pints of Smithwicks in a pub costs between €9 and €10

That's 150% more expensive.

Also, what cans cost a fiver each?

koHd

I know prices are where they are because of costs involved. What are the costs? Tax? Staff? Premises?

I think pubs here need to seriously look at ways to reduce costs so that the price of a pint is attractive for us to go out instead of just getting cans.

How can cans be so cheap v a pint? It's all the same stuff. Obviously the things I mentioned above like tax contribute.

I think it's in the countries interest to get people drinking in pubs again. So the government should make it easier for lower prices on pints and maybe rise the price of cans.

If you don't mind, could you break down the costs, and maybe we can put ideas forward to help reducing the costs in the long run.

ardinn

Des wrote: »

Firstly, you will be treated with respect here, as all of our posters are. I'll make sure of it.

Secondly, fair play to you for coming and posting here, I really hope you stick around to address points, and engage in discussion. You'll have to realise that people are going to have fairly robust opinions on this subject. Don't take them personally, and try to ignore anyone who is rude etc.

Now, where to start with your question.

A. I don't like lager, or guinness on tap. I do, however, like Ale. So, what are MY choices in a pub? Smithwicks normally, some places have Macardles, but they are few and far between and large bottles of Guinness aren't that prevalent either, but it's getting better. I just don't want to pay nearly a fiver for something I don't really want to drink, when I can go to a off licence, or Tesco and get what I want for about 150% cheaper.

B. When do I go to a pub, either me or my OH is driving, To drink coke all night is more expensive than drinking beer. To drink cordial most publicans charge more than a bottle of cordial costs them for a splash in a glass with some water. Simply, it's a rip-off, so I'd rather stay home with some friends, or go to a friend's house with the beer I want to drink.

C. there is a pub near me that is a nice stroll on a summer evening, or a cheap-ish taxi trip. They DO sell something I like on tap (O'Hara's Stout), at a decent price (€4 a pint). I go there probably about once a month, they have nice, reasonably priced, food too, which is a bonus. The food isn't some deep fried crapola either.

D. Blaring thump-thump music. No thanks. Again, that pub I mentioned with the O'Hara's, they have a small band playing every Saturday night, but they don't interfere with my night. They play at a volume that isn't intrusive. If I want to listen, I can hear them, but if I want to have a chat, I can do that without getting hoarse.

E. I don't like being treated like a piece of dirt by the staff. I want to be made feel welcome. I want the barman to remember my order, even if it's two- or three-deep at the bar. When he catches my eye I want him to ask me "Same again?".

F. I like the bar staff to be properly trained. I want to be able to ask for a Smithwicks with a Guinness head and not have to teach the moron behind the counter how to pour it. Or wait for five minutes as he waits for it to fizz down again, after the fifth time he's pulled it incorrectly.

G. I want a proper place to smoke, not some street corner.

H. It's not that I prefer to be at home, it's just that the pub isn't attractive as an option to me any more.

What would get me back?

Cheaper prices.

More choice. I actually enjoy going to that pub for the O'Hara's. I also enjoy going to places like The Porter House, The Bull & Castle to try new stuff, and not have Carlsberg, Heineken, Bud and Guinness shoved down my throat.

Publican's not being all over the radio claiming poverty when the prices keep going up.

Before I go on I will state that the Bars we have are in Carlow (rural village) And (Wexford) Large village with 2 bars 2 hotels and plenty of restaurants - I dont have experience of the dublin trade so bear that in mind should I post in relation to pricing etc.

A) We have Smithwicks and Bottles of Mac (the latter being one of my best selling drinks) We do have an off licence and are currently trying to introduce a large craft beer range for choice. In the location we are in in wexford due to alot of passing trade, I am considering introducing more drinks to the taps, but there is only so many one Pub should have, For example we have excellent Guinness by all accounts, I put this down to a good flow that starts early in the morning and continues all day, Should I introduce Beamish and Murphy's into the mix, as with the nature of all beers on taps that a good flow is better than not, Can I risk the quality of all 3? It is an option however and something we will look at soon but for smaller pubs this is sometimes not an option.

Soft drinks are too expensive, no arguments there. But on Many occasions people have come to me and said that a particular person is driving, can we sort him out, and I usually give 1 + 1 free. Im not making on the coke/7up whatever but there is people about having a pints and Im glad of the business, Has anyone ever tried doing this or am I just a soft touch??

C) Im glad to hear it.

D) Answered with A)

E) + F) I think the problems with most staff is that they are not in a career job! Most bar staff are young students etc or working in between jobs for extra pocket money, Although proper training has a lot to do with it you will probably not see a higher staff turnover figure in the economy than pubs / hotels, and they don't care because they are not staying anyway! My guess is the best people you will find behind the bars are owners/career barmen and they are hard to find, However, a well run establishment will have even those who are not career catering people trained very well and to standard.

Compared to clothing shop staff recently however you would think you were a god in any bar!

G) Well again nothing is cheap, a good beer garden or even nice deck area is going to cost a couple of grand to develop. The money just is not there for most at the minute. But In saying that I do believe we are one of the best country's by far for some of the facilities some pubs offer, Taking into account the weather in this country compared to spain etc, they dont need it and based on their climate have been set up for outdoor service, We however have had to adjust. And Think of some places where facilities are lacking, do they actually have the space to provide what is needed?

H)

Brian CivilEng

Like Des I'd like to repeat that the biggest problem I have with pubs in Ireland is lack of choice on tap. You go into some pubs with about 20 taps, but can really only get Guinness, Smithwicks and 5 lagers that taste identical to each other. Since I lost my job and could no longer afford to go drinking every friday and saturday I made a vow that I was going to enjoy every pint I got. Since then I only make two trips a month to the pub (and drink much less), but make the effort to go into town to The Bull & Castle or the Porterhouse (leaving before the last DART). Drinking in pubs is expensive enough as it is, and I'd prefer to pay for something I know I am going to enjoy. Hopefully I will be working soon again, but I have learned that I enjoyed my trips to the Bull & Castle with two pints of Galway Hooker much more than my old nights out to the local with five or more pints of Guinness, so I think I will stick to going where I can find good beer.

Jam-Fly

Des wrote: »

Two bottles of my favourite beer costs €4 in Tesco.

Two pints of Smithwicks in a pub costs between €9 and €10

That's 150% more expensive.

Also, what cans cost a fiver each?

btw, pints being 150% more expensive than cans is not the same as cans being 150% cheaper than pints, it's impossible for something to be 150% cheaper

ardinn

Des wrote: »

Mate, the average price of a pint is NOT four quid.

The whole country does NOT live in Dublin!

koHd

ardinn wrote: »

The whole country does NOT live in Dublin!

Yes but surely the country's average price is heavily affected by Dublin ?

ardinn

Des wrote: »

Two bottles of my favourite beer costs €4 in Tesco.

Two pints of Smithwicks in a pub costs between €9 and €10

That's 150% more expensive.

Also, what cans cost a fiver each?

None! But if I go into an offie ill get a few cans maybe some crisps etc and be left with very little out of a tenner, The post was not written in precise terms but I shall however be more precise with future contributions, and even with that said I am a good way off with a tenner so my apologies to you sir!

ardinn

koHd wrote: »

Yes but surely the country's average price is heavily affected by Dublin ?

Yes true but I am aware of many pubs (if you insist on me finding the names I will but it may wait until 2moro evening) In dublin selling pints for €3.00

ardinn

koHd wrote: »

The price gap between a few cans in and a few pints out is too great. Price of cans should be raised, and price of pints should be lowered.

Right now I can get 8 cans of bavaria for 8.99 and have a good laugh in. Or spend 40 euro on pints out. And also have to get a taxi home for a tenner. Adding up to 50 quid versus 8.99.

I can't be spending 50 quid on one night out right now. So 8.99 wins every time.

If pints in pubs were around 1 euro more expensive than a can I would definitely go out more often as the extra euro per drink is worth it for the atmosphere. But right now pints are 3 euro more than a can. Which really adds up over the night.

I agree, but why should the price of cans go up? Im not trying to shoot myself in the foot but if you want to stay at home and drink thats up to you and you should'nt be penalised for it. Look at the 0.5% decrease in the recent budget that amounted to 15c in the price of a pint, Speaks volumes on the current tax situation.

HavingCrack

For me theres a couple of issues.

A-Price My local off licence sells 10 cans for 10 euro while the local pub charges 5.50 for one pint of equivilent lager. No contest.

B-Customer Service-The employees of the local off licence know me by name and chat to me when I come in while the 5 local pubs are full of rude, ignorant unpleasant individuals who do nothing to attract people to their pubs.

C-Age-I'm only 20 and the youngest patrons of my locals are early 30's. That's quite an age gap. Theres literally nothing attracting "younger" (18-30) people to pubs in my area at least. It's seen as an older persons hang out.

D-There s a lot more social outlets in Ireland now than even 10-20 years ago. Restaurants, cinemas, nightclubs, pool halls, casinos, late night gyms etc etc etc are competing with pubs for peoples social outlets in the cities and big towns at least. (I've no experience of rural areas so I apologise but I can only comment on personal experience).

amacachi

Price and choice are far and away the two big issues. between 4 and 5 quid for a pint of piss adds up all too quickly when I can get 4 cans of piss for 3.09 in Lidl and hit the park or a mate's house. You say that everyone lives near enough a pub to not need a taxi, while that may be true (and I'd argue about it tbh), unless all those going for a few live near each other most will have to get a taxi or the bus.
Choice is a huge thing though. While most of the time I stick to cans of piss, if I'm going to be paying 4-6 times what I usually pay for my drinks I want it to be outstanding. A proper ale would be good, hell even a proper pint of guinness is getting harder and harder to find.
Then there's atmosphere. ****ty seats (only applies to some pubs), ****ty lighting, not showing sport, music too loud, waaaaaaaaay too hot, and then the staff who really don't seem to want anybody to ask them for a drink.
For me as well I live near the border so I can pick up a litre of vodka for about 12 quid, or wine at about 3.50 a bottle.

On the cost issue though, people speak from experience. Taxi home + food + the ridiculous amount I smoke when I'm out is a good 20 quid on top of the pints. Yes you can argue they're discretionary, but so is spending 25 on cinema food for two people as you claim to do. So on a limited income I do what I can, I can spend 20 quid and get wasted and well fed while watching a film or TV or any number of things, or I can go to the pub, listen to whatever crap music is on and sweat my balls off.

On the cost issue, I know in England a lot of Landlords are being run into the ground by the breweries, but when I see a country pub charging 3.50 a pint and only having about 8 people in each night and €5+ being charged elsewhere, ostensibly to pay the rates I have to wonder how high the rates are. I also wonder if pubs are allowed sell cans, I know of a few which do (and charge full pint prices for it), and wonder why more don't, charge say 2.50 a can. It tastes no worse than the crap pouring of most barstaff I've come across.

koHd

Re: cans in pubs.

I was thinking about that idea a while back myself. If it was possible, I would buy a can to drink in a pub, with a glass of course, for 3 euro, rather than 5 euro for a tap pint.

Is this legal? If it is, why don't pubs do it?

ardinn

amacachi wrote: »

Price and choice are far and away the two big issues. between 4 and 5 quid for a pint of piss adds up all too quickly when I can get 4 cans of piss for 3.09 in Lidl and hit the park or a mate's house. You say that everyone lives near enough a pub to not need a taxi, while that may be true (and I'd argue about it tbh), unless all those going for a few live near each other most will have to get a taxi or the bus.
Choice is a huge thing though. While most of the time I stick to cans of piss, if I'm going to be paying 4-6 times what I usually pay for my drinks I want it to be outstanding. A proper ale would be good, hell even a proper pint of guinness is getting harder and harder to find.
Then there's atmosphere. ****ty seats (only applies to some pubs), ****ty lighting, not showing sport, music too loud, waaaaaaaaay too hot, and then the staff who really don't seem to want anybody to ask them for a drink.
For me as well I live near the border so I can pick up a litre of vodka for about 12 quid, or wine at about 3.50 a bottle.

On the cost issue though, people speak from experience. Taxi home + food + the ridiculous amount I smoke when I'm out is a good 20 quid on top of the pints. *Yes you can argue they're discretionary, but so is spending 25 on cinema food for two people as you claim to do. So on a limited income I do what I can, I can spend 20 quid and get wasted and well fed while watching a film or TV or any number of things, or I can go to the pub, listen to whatever crap music is on and sweat my balls off.

On the cost issue, I know in England a lot of Landlords are being run into the ground by the breweries, but when I see a country pub charging 3.50 a pint and only having about 8 people in each night and €5+ being charged elsewhere, ostensibly to pay the rates I have to wonder how high the rates are. I also wonder if pubs are allowed sell cans, I know of a few which do (and charge full pint prices for it), and wonder why more don't, charge say 2.50 a can. It tastes no worse than the crap pouring of most barstaff I've come across.

ardinn wrote: »

I understand that some people actually need taxi's and others require babysitters etc but most people are in walking distance of a pub.

*Good Point

O.k. but why would you go into a pub that you dont like?? (Loud Music, too hot) Go to one that suits you, (this is open for questioning as people go out to meet people and most people are in these places but I cant try and explain everything). You say you can get wasted in your own house - Thats fine because you wont be getting "wasted" in any of my pubs anyway! I believe people getting "wasted" in pubs is a reason so many dont go there anymore!

On the rates issue my current rates in Wexford are €11,589.00 for a premises with a bar/restaurant, capacity about 100patrons. And a very small off licence.

I was also wondering about the cans issue - I personally dont have an issue with it, but some older people see it as a sign of a poor establishment (rough etc) I might do a poll on this tho to get the general view. Would anyone here frown upon a few 18/19 yr olds drinking cans at the bar. I do think it would be kind of intimidating. And no it is not illegal.

ardinn

HavingCrack wrote: »

For me theres a couple of issues.

A-Price My local off licence sells 10 cans for 10 euro while the local pub charges 5.50 for one pint of equivilent lager. No contest.

B-Customer Service-The employees of the local off licence know me by name and chat to me when I come in while the 5 local pubs are full of rude, ignorant unpleasant individuals who do nothing to attract people to their pubs.

C-Age-I'm only 20 and the youngest patrons of my locals are early 30's. That's quite an age gap. Theres literally nothing attracting "younger" (18-30) people to pubs in my area at least. It's seen as an older persons hang out.

D-There s a lot more social outlets in Ireland now than even 10-20 years ago. Restaurants, cinemas, nightclubs, pool halls, casinos, late night gyms etc etc etc are competing with pubs for peoples social outlets in the cities and big towns at least. (I've no experience of rural areas so I apologise but I can only comment on personal experience).

A) I very much doubt they are selling the same lager in the off-licence for €1 as they are on tab in the bar, Maybe im wrong but i very much doubt.

Thats unfortunate - have you ever told the owner this, Have you said you would be more likely to enter his premises should his staff be more courteous to you and take the time to do the chatting and have the craic? If this is an issue with anyone here, make a point of telling your publican - Im sure he is unaware of it or at least does'nt know the level at which it's occurring - I would very much like to be told! And you would see an immediate improvement!

In Saying that the culprit might be the owner/manager, That's just people for you and unfortunately you get them in every profession!

C) Nothing I can say here really only to try it out - If you had a few people that age going in then im sure he would accommodate you in some way regards entertainment etc. If no-one your age is going in there tho then he has no way of knowing! I was asked and I put on Wii nights during the week and poker tournaments on fridays, Alot of my younger patrons attend these events only.

D) Yep one of the biggest issues - But I stand by my comments that bar the pool halls, The "local" pub is still the cheapest of all these by far

koHd

Re:Re: cans in the pub

If you sold the cans at the bar with a pint glass and made sure people poured into the glass themselves, then disposed of the can into some kind of recycle bin set up, then it wouldn't be too bad.

I'm 25, and personally, I would love to be able to do that at a bar and pay 3 euro a pop for a can.

ardinn

koHd wrote: »

Re:Re: cans in the pub

If you sold the cans at the bar with a pint glass and made sure people poured into the glass themselves, then disposed of the can into some kind of recycle bin set up, then it wouldn't be too bad.

I'm 25, and personally, I would love to be able to do that at a bar and pay 3 euro a pop for a can.

I would'nt mind doing it but we do have a very mixed clientele where I am. I just dont see the mix of families having dinner while 4 fellas drink cans at the bar. If it was poured yes, but still...

Im 27 btw so I was brought up on cans in the fields too!