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Child Item

Aid Floatillas Attacked

EuskalHerria

I wouldn't be starting a political thread in here if it wasn't so serious and needed immediate attention. If people could try not to deviate away from the main issue here it would be appreciated as this is important and something that extends beyond merely politics, but has become a humanitarian issue

Reports coming in at the minute, and hopefully will turn out not to be false in the morning, that volunteers on the boats bringing badly needed aid and supplies to Gaza were killed when the IDF opened fire on them leaving some injured and a reported 3 dead.

It would astonish me if this did not become a huge international issue. The agenda of those on the ships were clear and yet Israel continued, in international waters, to fire on innocent men and women only trying to deliver much needed aid to a region that has been crippled by blockades. I Believe ,in case of a situation like this, many political activists from across the world and many media representatives were included on the flotilla to document what goes on. So hopefully a transparent report of events will come to light very soon.

As I'm typing there is live footage on this link http://www.livestream.com/insaniyardim, you can hear gunfire as IDF soldiers are lowered upon one of the vessels.

There can be no justification for any of these actions by the IDF, regardless of anyone being dead which is still obviously unconfirmed among all the commotion aboard the flotillas. In international waters attacking ships trying to deliver aid is outrageous and any right minded individual would condemn this.

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Comments

arybvtcw0eolkf

magma69 wrote: »

When is the rest of the world going to say enough is enough? Our apathy will only encourage more of this behaviour from Israel. Time for sanctions from the international community, Israel is a so called "western democracy",, if it wants to be treated as one, it must behave like one.

It is sickening. Poor people just trying to deliver aid and make the world a little easier for another human being, killed in cold blood. :mad::(

Those idiots are not interested in delivering aid, would ya cop on.

Their out for provacation and nothing else.

'Humanitarians' my arse. If they're so humanitarian and interested in getting aid through why didn't they allow representitves access to Gilad Shalit?.

As regretable as these deaths are there are also reports of an Israeli soldier being stabbed onboard one of the ships, how humanitarian is that?

The lad is only doing his job, pretty much like our own naval personnel boarding illegal trawlers and drug running shipments.

jimi_t2

Jay D wrote: »

Will wait and see what exactly IS true. Not a fan of Israel at all to be perfectly honest, but does anyone remember the child martyr? Staged shooting by French journalist.

QFT

Alarmism and facetiousness (and I'm accusing NO poster here of either, just to be clear) is not going to help either the Palestinian or Israeli people. Internet outrage is only going to muddle the facts and make both positions less credible.

When people start quoting media whose human-rights records and religious-bias wouldn't be the most admirable (Turkey, Al Jazeera etc...) I start to get itchy. There's already been a plethora of cases where nutjobs on either side have tried to incite a reaction from other countries/governments using staged events or misinformation. Its one of the oldest tenants of a guerrila war in disputed territory.

Hell, SKY NEWS said that protestors had, and I quote, ''stormed the Irish Parliament'' about three weeks ago, so forgive me if I take my news with a pinch of salt.

Of course its a disgrace that civilians anywhere around the world are starving or live in an urban war zone, but its important to take these things somewhat in context. I'm sure wikileaks will have the gist of it in a bit, but the facts from reuters are

1. Civilian flotilla with ''pro-Palestinian activists'', 10,000 tonnes of aid was intercepted in International waters. The convoy set off in international waters off Cyprus on Sunday in defiance of an Israeli-led blockade of the Gaza Strip and warnings that it would be intercepted. Some of the ships were flying Turkish flags.

2. When they heard the flotilla was coming a week ago, they warned them that they'd be intercepted if they tried to cross a Military blockade. The official explanation was their fears that arms supplies could reach Hamas by sea.

3. Israel has previously halted such activist ships, without casualties, although some others have reached Gaza before.

4. This time, injuries have been confirmed. No deaths have been confirmed by anyone, including the Free Gaza movement who haven't been in contact with the ships. Popular opinion suggest between 10 and 16 deaths depending on whom you believe.

5. Captured ships were sailing towards Israel's southern Mediterranean port of Ashdod, media said. Not elsewhere as the FreeGaza movement suggested.

halkar

Have the MV Rachel Corrie join the Flotilla yet? It appears only the Turkish ship attacked so far.
This is fecking sick :mad:

rubberdiddies

magma69 wrote: »

When is the rest of the world going to say enough is enough? Our apathy will only encourage more of this behaviour from Israel. Time for sanctions from the international community, Israel is a so called "western democracy",, if it wants to be treated as one, it must behave like one.
It is sickening. Poor people just trying to deliver aid and make the world a little easier for another human being, killed in cold blood. :mad::(

Unfortunately because the US are Israels biggest ally and supporter, this story will fizzle out pretty quickly. I hope I'm proved wrong as it's an absolute disgrace.

Sky News who normally run with a story like this fir hours and hours have given a whole 60 seconds to it since 7am. I wonder whythey aren't too interestes in it!

Again Israel will get away with doing whatver they want in the face of international law.

galwayrush

Someone said Hamas are a reactionary group, i think they are more of a provocation group.

cyrusdvirus

This certainly paints Israel and the IDF in a bad light, because no matter what the provocation, the first ones out with the story will always have a lead on the rest. In this case among the first ones out were those bastions of clear and concise reporting Al-Jazeera or whatever the hell they call themselves.

If it had been Fox News reporting it the other way around, that Israeli inspectors landed on the ships to check for contraband and were attacked, i have no doubt that certain media outlets would twist it to suit themselves. Hell, how do we know that that wasn't the case??

jimi_t2

gatecrash wrote: »

If it had been Fox News reporting it the other way around, that Israeli inspectors landed on the ships to check for contraband and were attacked, i have no doubt that certain media outlets would twist it to suit themselves. Hell, how do we know that that wasn't the case??

10,000 tonnes of a convoy, some flying the flags of an Islamist state not known for its light-handedness, approached a military blockade despite repeated warnings.

Similar convoys had been there before, and had been refused, so they knew what they were in for.

Oh, and the territory they were headed for was controlled by an Islamist extremist group known for suicide bombings and firing rockets into the suburbs of their neighbouring territories.

The flotilla was boarded (presumably) after they refused to stop going towards the blockade with a lot of very opinionated and presumably vocal people who described themselves as ''Pro-Palestinian activists'' hanging off said boats.

Seriously, you don't see MSF or the Red Cross trying to run a military blockade flying the flags of other countries, and for bloody good reason. It's provocative and accidents can happen.

Especially since they were WARNED that this would be the case.

Fair enough, the warning may have been illegal or immoral, but this, to me, seems to be effective martyrdom.

cyrusdvirus

jimi_t2 wrote: »

10,000 tonnes of a convoy, some flying the flags of an Islamist state not known for its light-handedness, approached a military blockade despite repeated warnings.

Similar convoys had been there before, and had been refused, so they knew what they were in for.

Oh, and the territory they were headed for was controlled by an Islamist extremist group known for suicide bombings and firing rockets into the suburbs of their neighbouring territories.

The flotilla was boarded (presumably) after they refused to stop going towards the blockade with a lot of very opinionated and presumably vocal people who described themselves as ''Pro-Palestinian activists'' hanging off said boats.

Seriously, you don't see MSF or the Red Cross trying to run a military blockade flying the flags of other countries, and for bloody good reason. It's provocative and accidents can happen.

Especially since they were WARNED that this would be the case.

Fair enough, the warning may have been illegal or immoral, but this, to me, seems to be effective martyrdom.

Jimi, i wasn't defending ther actions of the convoy organisers, or defending the IDF.

But as you said, it does sound like a case of suicide by cop.

Wagon

It wasn't in international waters. It was in an area of water banned for all ships. The turkish vessels were given clear warning to turn around and were offered to dock in a port in main Isreal, not in Gaza.

They didn't do that so Isreali soldiers boarded the ships to check out what was going on. When they did, they were attacked by men with knives who tried to kill them so they shot them. The news reports say that the boats contained about 10,000 tonnes of aid but what kind of "humanitarian aid" boats also contain women, children and men armed and prepared to kill? Who was the aid for?

Padraig Mor

Nijmegen wrote: »

Secondly, on the wider topic, Israel and Hamas are at war, Hamas took Gaza in a bloody coup against the elected governement, and have been shelling Israel for years. They offered to let this gear come in through Israel over land. These activists were wrong to try and play Israel on this one..

Sweet suffering Jesus. It's amazing the way people can be brainwashed by propaganda. Hamas ARE the democratically elected government of Gaza (and the West Bank too). They won elections which were widely regarded as being the most free and fair in the Arab world. Israel and "the west", however, simply ignored the result because they didn't like it. The fact that Hamas has repeatedly seriously pushed for a peaceful resolution to the situation is, of course, also ignored.

dublincelt

gatecrash wrote: »

Jimi, i wasn't defending ther actions of the convoy organisers, or defending the IDF.

But as you said, it does sound like a case of suicide by cop.

The apologists are clearly out in force this morning. More than 10 people made a decision to die by "suicide by cop"

You really, truly believe that??!!

Israel boarded this vessel in INTERNTIONAL waters. They had no right to do that. An act of piracy is what has occurred. Israel must be punished for this outrageous act.

The boat was bringing AID SUPPLIES. Wake up for Christ sake!!!!

Mister men

Israeli ambassador needs to be kicked out of Ireland and sanctions need to be introduced here forth againest Israel. Sky news have dedicated more time to entertainment in the past hour than the savage attack.:mad:
I need to get satellite.

Adamisconfused

Sad way to start the day. Absolutely disgusting attack on civilians who were trying to assist the innocent people of Gaza and bring public attention to the illegal Israeli imposed blocade. The Israeli ambassadors should be run out of every state on the planet.
Unfortunately, that won't happen and their right wing friends will just defend them yet again and propagate the lie that sixteen people with knives attacked commandos and therefore needed to be put down. Yeah right....

[Deleted User]

Military Blockaid. I like it.

TheZohanS

Nijmegen wrote: »

Much as I think Israel was always going to incur PR wrath for going after this flotilla, some things come to mind:

Firstly, reports are that the soldiers were attacked with knives and other weapons to hand when they boarded the vessel. Orders or no, if I was an Israeli soldier landing and someone came at me with a meat cleaver, I would put him down. At this point it is not entirely clear, but I would not think they boarded and started shooting randomly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE5pGeCUM-Y

Yeah.

Pauleta

Israel shouldnt be intercepting aid convoys full stop. They should be punished for this. These people on the ship should of surrendered when the commando's arrived on the ship instead of attacking them and trying to wrestle their guns off them. Im concerned about the aid being intercepted on international waters. The people who were killed, engaged in a battle on board they stupidly thought they could win. If they surrendered they would be still alive, so ive no pity for them.

Dyr

Fremen wrote: »

It's up on BBC news now:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm

The Israelis called the boats "provocation intended to delegitimise Israel".
Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.

Ah yes, the BBC Humanitarian orientated liberal media at its finest. Oh wait...

gurramok

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

Those idiots are not interested in delivering aid, would ya cop on.

Their out for provacation and nothing else.

'Humanitarians' my arse. If they're so humanitarian and interested in getting aid through why didn't they allow representitves access to Gilad Shalit?.

As regretable as these deaths are there are also reports of an Israeli soldier being stabbed onboard one of the ships, how humanitarian is that?

The lad is only doing his job, pretty much like our own naval personnel boarding illegal trawlers and drug running shipments.

You conveniently forgot something. They intercepted the ships in international waters, not Israeli waters.

bbc wrote:

The incident happened about 40 miles (64 km) out to sea, in international waters.

Israel should have waited for the flotilla to reach their shores if they wanted to stop it. They have scored an own goal by storming the ships in international waters.

dublincelt

Pauleta wrote: »

Israel shouldnt be intercepting aid convoys full stop. They should be punished for this. These people on the ship should of surrendered when the commando's arrived on the ship instead of attacking them and trying to wrestle their guns off them. Im concerned about the aid being intercepted on international waters. The people who were killed, engaged in a battle on board they stupidly thought they could win. If they surrendered they would be still alive, so ive no pity for them.

Steady on there chief. Are you really going to believe the likes of Mark Regev et al? The same stooge that claimed there was NO wrongdoing going on in Gaza by his forces whilst the UN compund blazed away in the backround.

The Israeli propaganda machine certainly works a treat for the uneducated!

Dravokivich

Anyone read the reports were the people on board the boats started attacking with knives and axes before the Isrealies opened fire?

gurramok

Dravokivich wrote: »

Anyone read the reports were the people on board the boats started attacking with knives and axes before the Isrealies opened fire?

What reports?

General Zod

jimi_t2 wrote: »

10,000 tonnes of a convoy, some flying the flags of an Islamist state not known for its light-handedness, approached a military blockade despite repeated warnings.

First off, they were turkish registered ships, of course they are going to fly the Turkish flag. You've brought this up several times, but if Israel were to attack all ships in international waters that are flying flags of countries they don't like they'd be attackingt ships left right and centre.

Israel say they allow 15,000 tons of aid into Gaza a week. the UN say that's only 25% of what is actually needed. 10,000 tonnes isn't alot by that scale.

Similar convoys had been there before, and had been refused, so they knew what they were in for.

Similar convoys weren't stormed and their occupants fired on by commandoes.

Oh, and the territory they were headed for was controlled by an Islamist extremist group known for suicide bombings and firing rockets into the suburbs of their neighbouring territories.

Aid workers have been shot, but lets keep talking about Hamas as if it's relevant.

The flotilla was boarded (presumably) after they refused to stop going towards the blockade with a lot of very opinionated and presumably vocal people who described themselves as ''Pro-Palestinian activists'' hanging off said boats.

Aid workers in international workers, but it's their own fault they were shot because they are "pro-palestinian".

Seriously, you don't see MSF or the Red Cross trying to run a military blockade flying the flags of other countries, and for bloody good reason. It's provocative and accidents can happen.

FFS there was nothing "accidental" about this.

Especially since they were WARNED that this would be the case.

Fair enough, the warning may have been illegal or immoral, but this, to me, seems to be effective martyrdom.

you're being extremely disengenuous here. There's no "may have". It was illegal and immoral. Just as storming ships in international waters is illegal and immoral. But hey, it's Israel who did it, so lets jump through hoops to defend their actions.

Pauleta

dublincelt wrote: »

Steady on there chief. Are you really going to believe the likes of Mark Regev et al? The same stooge that claimed there was NO wrongdoing going on in Gaza by his forces whilst the UN compund blazed away in the backround.

The Israeli propaganda machine certainly works a treat for the uneducated!

You call me uneducated on the strenght on 1 post :rolleyes:

Secondly i have seen one of these videos of the people on board hitting the soldiers with Iron bars and trying to wrestle a gun from a soldier. When you try a take a gun off a soldier its an act of aggression which warrants being shot.

Dravokivich

gurramok wrote: »

What reports?

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Palestinian-Aid-Convoy-Two-Killed-As-Israeli-Navy-Clashes-With-Boats-Sailing-To-Gaza-Strip/Article/201005415640829?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15640829_Palestinian_Aid_Convoy%3A_Two_Killed_As_Israeli_Navy_Clashes_With_Boats_Sailing_To_Gaza_Strip

Witnesses said the violence happened when Israeli soldiers boarded a Turkish ship that was leading the six-ship flotilla.

They opened fire after passengers attacked them with axes and knives, said Israeli private channel 10 television.

gurramok

Dravokivich wrote: »

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Palestinian-Aid-Convoy-Two-Killed-As-Israeli-Navy-Clashes-With-Boats-Sailing-To-Gaza-Strip/Article/201005415640829?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15640829_Palestinian_Aid_Convoy%3A_Two_Killed_As_Israeli_Navy_Clashes_With_Boats_Sailing_To_Gaza_Strip

"said Israeli private channel 10 television. "

Yeh, totally impartial source there:rolleyes:

iguana

Danny Wooden Savannah wrote: »

Those idiots are not interested in delivering aid, would ya cop on.

Their out for provacation and nothing else.

Really and you know that for a fact do you? Some of my friends were on those ships and all they were interested in was bring aid into a region that badly needs it. They were bring food, medical and education supplies for children. One of the passengers was a holocaust survivor. Some of the funding for the flotilla came from the Kennedy family, with Sen. Ted Kennedy being heavily involved in it.

You haven't the slightest clue what you are on about or about the flotilla, so how about you keep your nonsense opinion to yourself. I woke up this morning to find out that my friends might be dead so I don't particularly appreciate having their characters defamed. It's not only nasty but it also leaves you and the boards open to legal action.

biko

They opened fire after passengers attacked them with axes and knives, said Israeli private channel 10 television.

I'd like to get confirmation for a non controlled source before I believe anything the Israelis say. It could easily be the other way around.

Fuhrer

gurramok wrote: »

Israel should have waited for the flotilla to reach their shores if they wanted to stop it. They have scored an own goal by storming the ships in international waters.

Seen as they were in international waters the Isreali wont have to charge them with any crime since it was outside their jurisdiction

Ms.Odgeynist

Pauleta wrote: »

You call me uneducated on the strenght on 1 post :rolleyes:

Secondly i have seen one of these videos of the people on board hitting the soldiers with Iron bars and trying to wrestle a gun from a soldier. When you try a take a gun off a soldier its an act of aggression which warrants being shot.

Listen to yourself. Trying to wrestle a gun off a soldier is an act of aggression?
Not dropping onto an aid ship from a heavily armed helicopter while armed to the teeth with machine guns and grenades and whatever other weapons are en vogue these days.
Thats the same fuzzy logic invoked to justify bombing Gaza.

cyrusdvirus

biko wrote: »

I'd like to get confirmation for a non controlled source before I believe anything the Israelis say. It could easily be the other way around.

What if that is the way it was though? Al-Jazeera certainly won't report it like that, nor will many other news organisations.

And anyone who does report it that way will just be dismissed as pro israel right wing apologists