nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

unemployed - sign on by text !!!

PCPhoto

Seriously .... theres something fundamentally wrong with the people in the government.... talk about trying to encourage thole on the dole to become lazier*

*= not claiming that dole recipients are lazy or anything like that.

http://examiner.ie/ireland/social-welfare-claimants-to-sign-on-via-text-120978.html

JUST a year after it said social welfare recipients should produce photo ID because it was losing millions in fraudulent claims, the Government is planning to let claimants "sign on" by text.

In a move which Fine Gael TDs say will leave the system wide open to fraud, the Department for Social Protection has awarded a €1m contract to Hewlett Packard in Kildare to "develop and support a mobile phone-based solution for dynamic selection of and self-certification by claimants of unemployment benefits".

To qualify for jobseeker’s benefit or jobseeker’s allowance, a jobseeker must fulfil a number of conditions, including being available for and genuinely seeking work. At regular intervals they must make a declaration that they are still unemployed, available for and actively seeking work.

At present this certification process is done by attending the social welfare local office. However, the department’s new project "examines the potential to develop an additional channel for Jobseeker’s certification via the mobile phone".

It said selected customers would be invited to register for and avail of this service, which would be rolled out on a phased basis, once a "solution performance evaluation" process has been completed.

"This service will potentially allow people who receive Jobseeker’s Allowance and Jobseeker’s Benefit to complete the certification process by mobile phone," a spokeswoman said.

"Potentially the service will provide an alternative to the requirement for Jobseeker’s Allowance and Jobseeker’s Benefit claimants to attend their Social Welfare Local Office to certify and it will provide improved customer service and also reduce the departmental resources required to administer certification."

Cost savings would accrue from reducing the effort required to certify jobseekers at the department’s local offices, meaning staff would be freed to concentrate on client, claim, payment and control issues. However, Fine Gael’s social and family affairs spokes-woman Olwyn Enright said the proposed scheme left "huge room" for fraud, for example claiming while not even in the country.

"Why did they bother changing the legislation so that new people have to sign on and be visible?"

Last year a spot check found up to 10% of dole claims were fraudulent – mostly made by, or in the name of, people living outside of Ireland. At the time it was decided photographic identification would be required of the growing number of people collecting the dole and other social welfare payments.

Hewlett Packard has refused to comment on the new scheme.

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Banned Account

Nodin wrote: »

So if your company goes bust, and you end up on the stamps, then the dole, are you going to come back here and make stupid remarks at yourself?

Nope, I will turn up at the office to present myself whilst I look for something else to do. I certainly won't expect to be allowed do confirm my status by text message.

Nodin

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Nope, I will turn up at the office to present myself whilst I look for something else to do. I certainly won't expect to be allowed do confirm my status by text message.

Why would you be turning up at the office, When faced with the statement that the idea was "to free up resources and improve efficiency in the public sector, and save money" you replied

They could do this by actually working a bit.

Not practicing what we preach?

Banned Account

Nodin wrote: »

Why would you be turning up at the office, When faced with the statement that the idea was "to free up resources and improve efficiency in the public sector, and save money" you replied

Not practicing what we preach?

Not sure what your issue is, but I'll put it as bluntly as I possibly can in the hope that my stance on the issue may become clear to you.

I do not think that it is a good idea to allow people to confirm their continued eligibility for work from an unknown location by a text message that can be sent by anyone. If there is an issue with efficiency in the public sector ten deal with the real issues of staff allocation, outmoded work practices and unwillingness to work to targets or accept transfers.

Your attempts to quizz me as to what I might post should I have the misfortune of becoming unemployed are quite petty and have no relevance to this thread. Your insinuations about practicing what I preach - equally so.

One of the constants in this world is the ability of a person with a holier than thou attitude to burst in one everything which they think may be slightly related to their own, unknown agenda in a vain attempt to beat others with the same shitty stick which they beileve has been foisted upon them by the big bad world of social injustice.

If you don't like my posts - fine, hit the ignore button. If you don't like the fact that I have reservations about a mobile and anonymous system for welfare benefits that's fine too but do us all a favour and stop inventing ways to turn it into forum for bitching about those that are fortunate enough to have a job.

28064212

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

I do not think that it is a good idea to allow people to confirm their continued eligibility for work from an unknown location by a text message that can be sent by anyone. If there is an issue with efficiency in the public sector ten deal with the real issues of staff allocation, outmoded work practices and unwillingness to work to targets or accept transfers.

The problem is that there is no extra level of security involved in signing on at the office.The exact same checks happen there as happen at the post office on a weekly basis. The only difference is that the recipients have to queue up for 90 minutes in the welfare office. This is an 'outmoded work practice'. Signing on works purely on the honour system anyway, whether it's done in the office or by mobile (or online, which would have made a lot more sense). Fraud prevention occurs in an entirely different manner, which this will free up staff to focus on

Banned Account

28064212 wrote: »

The problem is that there is no extra level of security involved in signing on at the office.The exact same checks happen there as happen at the post office on a weekly basis. The only difference is that the recipients have to queue up for 90 minutes in the welfare office. This is an 'outmoded work practice'. Signing on works purely on the honour system anyway, whether it's done in the office or by mobile (or online, which would have made a lot more sense). Fraud prevention occurs in an entirely different manner, which this will free up staff to focus on

There is the fact that people cannot be working if they have to be in the office. Secondly, if you think that the staff on the counter will be (a) willing or (b) allowed to work on fraud prevention, then you have missed the point of the "outmoded work practices" part. There is a startling rigidity attached to public sector posts - one man, one job and all that malarky.

molloyjazz

jesus i hope the mobile networks will be able to handle the traffic on sign day once a month!

PeakOutput

our social welfare system is a joke

they are unemployed what could they possibly be doing thats so important they dont have time to go to the post office once a week or whatever it is

FearDark

gsxr1 wrote: »

Would be great if we could do it Via Face book Status instead.

social networking while signing

What, you havn't heard of Fásbook?

28064212

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

There is the fact that people cannot be working if they have to be in the office. Secondly, if you think that the staff on the counter will be (a) willing or (b) allowed to work on fraud prevention, then you have missed the point of the "outmoded work practices" part. There is a startling rigidity attached to public sector posts - one man, one job and all that malarky.

You think people can't be working if they have to spend 90 minutes a month in the welfare office? In fact it's much longer than a month in many places because the offices don't have the ability to get everyone signed on once a month.

No-one in the DSFA is employed solely to man the counters for signing-in. It's one part of their jobs, that consumes a disproportionate amount of their time. You think that if the hours they spend on handling signing-in is cut to almost nothing, they're just going to be allowed sit around doing nothing? No, they're going to be assigned more time to spend on their other tasks. I agree that the public sector has many areas of inefficiency, but that's not a reason to block efficiency in other areas

PeakOutput wrote:

they are unemployed what could they possibly be doing thats so important they dont have time to go to the post office once a week or whatever it is

Another person that doesn't have a clue what this proposal means or what's involved. Some of the ignorance on this thread is astounding

ghostdancer

geeky wrote: »

- aside from the cost of implementing it
- aside from the fact that it makes fraud considerably easier
- aside from the technical difficulties that arise if someone doesn't have a phone (let's face it, they'll have to maintain a staff presence to cater for people without mobiles/credit, which defeats the 'overstretched' argument)

It's a great idea.

except it doesn't make fraud any way more easy.
nor does it REQUIRE people to do it by phone.

in the first point, you don't understand how the current system works.

as for the 2nd, i presume you didn't bother to read the article.

ghostdancer

munchkin_utd wrote: »

they can have all the gps/ triangulation/ whatnot they want to ensure the phone is IN ireland.

if it just means then that your best mate in Ireland sends the text instead (maybe even give him your phone and get a cheap second one), so you can still swan off to Lanzarotte for months on end without a bother!!!

and how exactly do they pick up their money if they're in Lanzarote?

you still have to go to the post office each week and collect your money.

whether or not you go to the social welfare office once a month and sign a sheet and do NOTHING ELSE, or whether you send ina text saying that you're still seeking working, doesn't make a difference.

PeakOutput

28064212 wrote: »

Another person that doesn't have a clue what this proposal means or what's involved. Some of the ignorance on this thread is astounding

feel free to educate

will this proposal allow people to sign on without showing up in person?

skelliser

The ultimate goal of this is to reduce the queues at the dole offices. Ya know those nice news clips of people quing up! Well our gov. dont want this so hence bring in a method whereby you literally make the bad PR dissappear.
If the general population dont see or hear about a problem it doesnt exist.

28064212

PeakOutput wrote: »

feel free to educate

will this proposal allow people to sign on without showing up in person?

Yes, but there's a difference between signing on and collecting your payment. You collect your payment every week at the post office, you show your card and sign for it. Every month, you're required to sign on at the welfare office, where you show your card and sign an index card. The only difference is that in the welfare office the queue is typically a minimum of an hour. This proposal only removes the welfare office part of it

Mike 1972

ghostdancer wrote: »

you still have to go to the post office each week and collect your money..

Are you sure ?

Admitidely it was about fifteen years ago but when I was living in Dublin one had to sign on the appointed day/approximate time (unless you have notified them about a job interview or similar excuse) but once the money went into the post office you could wander in at your leisure to collect it (same as child benefit/pensions etc)

28064212

skelliser wrote: »

The ultimate goal of this is to reduce the queues at the dole offices. Ya know those nice news clips of people quing up! Well our gov. dont want this so hence bring in a method whereby you literally make the bad PR dissappear.
If the general population dont see or hear about a problem it doesnt exist.

When have the media showed clips of a dole office? All the attention has been given to Live Register figures, and huge queues for jobs, I haven't seen a single clip of a queue at a dole office

nachoman

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

You still have the toe option available? - obviously not long term unemployed then, I just used the last of my mickey yesterday.

I use heroin to inject me eyeballs

28064212

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Are you sure ?

Admitidely it was about fifteen years ago but when I was living in Dublin one had to sign on the appointed day/approximate time (unless you have notified them about a job interview or similar excuse) but once the money went into the post office you could wander in at your leisure to collect it (same as child benefit/pensions etc)

You don't have to go in on the same day as your payment arrives, but you do have to go in within a week, otherwise it just gets returned to the DSFA. You can't get it held at the post office for multiple weeks

skelliser

28064212 wrote: »

When have the media showed clips of a dole office? All the attention has been given to Live Register figures, and huge queues for jobs, I haven't seen a single clip of a queue at a dole office

They show them all the time on the news, particularly the sw offices in cork and galway.

nachoman

mickdw wrote: »

They will certainly have to provide the people on the dole with mobiles free of charge now. After all, it would be unconstitutional to make people who couldnt afford a mobile have to actually do more work to get there payment than those who have a phone.

Anything other than an iphone and i'm gonna be holdin a protest outside me local dole office, are yis with me lads, i know me entitlements rabble rabble rabble

Run_to_da_hills

munchkin_utd wrote: »

they can have all the gps/ triangulation/ whatnot they want to ensure the phone is IN ireland.

if it just means then that your best mate in Ireland sends the text instead (maybe even give him your phone and get a cheap second one), so you can still swan off to Lanzarotte for months on end without a bother!!!

They will get you when you will be made tag in / out of the country with your social welfare smart card / e_passport.

Odysseus

nachoman wrote: »

I use heroin to inject me eyeballs

I would suggest using a syringe and a needle, or a barrle and a spike if you perfer to admister your heroin, it will work a tad better than tying just using heroin.

Nodin

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Not sure what your issue is,(.....)

Your sneering indifference to the fact that the vast majority are unemployed through no fault of their own. Your remark about "free money" which rather ignores that for one section required to sign on, thats money they've paid in. That kind of thing.

nachoman

Odysseus wrote: »

I would suggest using a syringe and a needle, or a barrle and a spike if you perfer to admister your heroin, it will work a tad better than tying just using heroin.

yeh, just end up smearin it all over my face:pac:

stepbar

Sign on by text... I've heard it all now.... never mind that... the Dept of Social Protection hasn't even a system where you can submit an application for dole over the web! :rolleyes:

I used to work in a Dole office many years ago.... I'm sorry but anyone signing on for dole should have to appear in person at least once a month. Someone flying in to sign on might think twice about abusing the system. "Signing on" should be verified by signature verification software using a machine within the social welfare office and certainly not by text. Verification by thumb print would be the preferred option but I acknowledge that civil liberty issues may prevent this happening.

mysons

That,s fcuking great for Pawel in Poland(please text back when you finnish on the building site) now he doe's not have to come back every month and lie about been on holiday cause he could not get back cause of the ash cloud.

Well done FF/GP,when Hollywood make the movie about the Country that went bust the rest of the world will piss themself laughing at us.

K-9

mysons wrote: »

That,s fcuking great for Pawel in Poland(please text back when you finnish on the building site) now he doe's not have to come back every month and lie about been on holiday cause he could not get back cause of the ash cloud.

Well done FF/GP,when Hollywood make the movie about the Country that went bust the rest of the world will piss themself laughing at us.

Except he has to turn up every week at the post office with photo id.

Venom

Wonder if there will be free phone credit giving out so the texts can be sent :P

28064212

stepbar wrote: »

Sign on by text... I've heard it all now.... never mind that... the Dept of Social Protection hasn't even a system where you can submit an application for dole over the web! :rolleyes:

I used to work in a Dole office many years ago.... I'm sorry but anyone signing on for dole should have to appear in person at least once a month. Someone flying in to sign on might think twice about abusing the system. "Signing on" should be verified by signature verification software using a machine within the social welfare office and certainly not by text. Verification by thumb print would be the preferred option but I acknowledge that civil liberty issues may prevent this happening.

Why? They have to show up once a week at the post office, how is having to show up at the welfare office once a month going to stop them from abusing the system? Signing-on verification, either by software or thumb-print, is not going to happen anytime soon, it's a pipe-dream at best. If it is brought in, then fine, have everyone sign-on by whatever means necessary, but at the moment, there is zero difference between signing on at the office and signing on by text, except signing on at the office requires more resources and has a much greater scope for human error

mysons wrote: »

That,s fcuking great for Pawel in Poland(please text back when you finnish on the building site) now he doe's not have to come back every month and lie about been on holiday cause he could not get back cause of the ash cloud.

Well done FF/GP,when Hollywood make the movie about the Country that went bust the rest of the world will piss themself laughing at us.

More retardness. At least read a couple of the posts on the thread and try to understand the issue

stepbar

28064212 wrote: »

Why? They have to show up once a week at the post office, how is having to show up at the welfare office once a month going to stop them from abusing the system? Signing-on verification, either by software or thumb-print, is not going to happen anytime soon, it's a pipe-dream at best. If it is brought in, then fine, have everyone sign-on by whatever means necessary, but at the moment, there is zero difference between signing on at the office and signing on by text, except signing on at the office requires more resources and has a much greater scope for human error
More retardness. At least read a couple of the posts on the thread and try to understand the issue

If someone is claiming dole from outside the country then obviously they will have to fly here to sign on. Allowing someone to sign on by text means that said person can happily leave a phone in a friends hands, safe in the knowledge that the social welfare won't come snooping as long as a text is sent in every week / month and so on.

It's sad that I had to point all of the above out.