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Child Item

The Human Cost of an iPad

starbelgrade

Concern over human cost overshadows iPad launch

By Martin Hickman

Thursday May 27 2010

The American electronics giant Apple was investigating damaging allegations last night that Chinese workers making its new iPad device were subjected to such "inhumane" treatment that some of them took their own lives by jumping off factory roofs.

An update to the US firm's supplier codes in February revealed that a majority of its 102 facilities flouted its "rigorous" rules on working hours, which include a weekly limit of 60 hours a week - equivalent to 12 hours a day. Some 39pc broke rules on workplace injury prevention and 30pc broke guidelines on the management of toxic chemicals.

Audits uncovered violations involving child labour, falsified records and disposal of hazardous waste.

The company has been embarrassed by publicity surrounding 11 suicide attempts at the vast Foxconn facility near the southern boom city of Shenzhen, where the iPad is made, which threatens to overshadow the global launch of the touch-screen computer tomorrow.

Yesterday a "saddened and upset" Apple promised to investigate whether the plant, which employs 300,000 people who earn around 35 cents an hour, should continue to make its products, which sell for hundreds of euros each.

At the 1.2-square mile Foxconn facility, which also makes products for Dell, Hewlett Packard and Acer, nine workers have died and two have been gravely injured in roof jumps in the first five months of 2010.

All the incidents involved workers aged under 25, who apparently have been disturbed by the long shifts and strict discipline. Talking and music are banned during shifts, which last at least 10 hours. Workers must perform a certain number of repetitive operations per shift, under the eye of allegedly harsh military-style supervisors.

In an attempt to prevent more suicides, the Taiwanese-owned firm has hired 2,000 singers, dancers and gym trainers. It is also putting up netting to thwart future suicides.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/asia-pacific/concern-over-human-cost-overshadows-ipad-launch-2196991.html

Would reports like this affect your decision to buy the product?

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Biggins

Pittens wrote: »

...Typical Apple bashing rehashed by the half wits who use the majority OS and are appalled that a minority OS even exists...

Well like I mentioned in an earlier post, I looked at the Ipad and its usefulness and found it wanting.

* No keyboard, on-screen or not.
* No usb port.
* Will not allow flash - so that's hundreds of thousands of sites it won't display.
* The document formats it will allow are limited and some rights restricted.
* You can't multi-task.
* Very few productivity apps.
* Only allows Safari.
* No webcam
* No SD or similar slots.
* No mainstream apps. Word? No, Photoshop? No. Anything else substantial? No.

I must be a half-wit too for not buying something that even the media reviews are scratching their heads at and wondering, just what is its central use!

I'm a happy half-wit then with my money still in my pocket.

thirtythirty

Pittens wrote: »

the latter will then repeat the headline : The title of this tread is not the human cost of a DELL.

so of course this is manipulated..

Well the first death was of a guy accused of losing a prototype iPhone, which ultimately sparked it.

ScumLord

spottyelephant wrote: »

I heard the iPad is blood-cooled.

That sounds true to me, I also heard most apps are made out of children's nightmares.

Eoin

marco_polo wrote: »

Persecution complex much?

It is not Apple bashing, happens to all big corporations at some point and on this occasion happens to be apples turn.

The article in the OP says:

"At the 1.2-square mile Foxconn facility, which also makes products for Dell, Hewlett Packard and Acer, nine workers have died and two have been gravely injured in roof jumps in the first five months of 2010."

So why is the focus on Apple products?

Confab wrote:

I refuse on principle to buy Apples goods because Apple users are insufferably smug about devices that do nothing new or unique.

Speaking of nothing new or unique, that thread has already been done this week.

Pittens

I must be a half-wit too for not buying something that even the media reviews are scratching their heads at and wondering, just what is its central use!

it's um, central, use is as a consumption device. A bit like a Kindle, but more than an e-reader, although it is that too. Although it has productivity packages as well, not unsurprisingly produced by Apple. You will be waitng a while until MS produces Office for an iPad.

But who cares. The amount of song and dancing made by people who wont buy Apple products is beyond belief. Nobody gives a f*ck. I am about as interested in your reason for not buying an iPad - which isnt what this thread is about - as you are in my reasons for not buying an xBox.

But since you didnt ask. here are my reasons for not buying an xBox

No keyboard, on-screen or not.
* No usb port.
* Will not allow flash - so that's hundreds of thousands of sites it won't display.
* The document formats it will allow are limited and some rights restricted.
* You can't multi-task.
* Very few productivity apps.
* Doesnt allows Safari.
* No webcam
* No SD or similar slots.
* No mainstream apps. Word? No, Photoshop? No. Anything else substantial? No.

Am i missing something here. Is it not a computer?

thirtythirty

eoin wrote: »

Speaking of nothing new or unique, that thread has already been done this week.

That won't stop apple from trying to re-launch it! Hay-oohh!

(sorry, no more thread deviations)

marco_polo

Pittens wrote: »

If FoxConn - which has been around for ages and has produced Dell and others for ages, and has presumably had the same work practices for ages - has not been featured before in the Western Media, and is miss-classified as an iPad factory, then clearly the writer has an anti-Apple agenda.

It gets clicks from Apple fans, but most likely these days from Apple haters.

the latter will then repeat the headline : The title of this tread is not the human cost of a DELL.

so of course this is manipulated..

This is true and just for the record I think the story doesn't really stand up to scrutiny however, it could just as easily have been lazy/poor journalism?

[Deleted User]

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/foremski/media-gets-its-facts-wrong-working-at-foxconn-significantly-cuts-suicide-risk/1356

''working at foxconn significantly cuts suicide risk''

thirtythirty

Pittens wrote: »

Am i missing something here. Is it not a computer?

Nope, it's a console.

gaz wac

"Yesterday a "saddened and upset" Apple "

Gurgle

Pittens wrote: »

Am i missing something here. Is it not a computer?

Erm, no.
Its not called a computer, why would you think its a computer?
Its a portable media player. AKA a toy.

cornbb

Biggins wrote: »

Well like I mentioned in an earlier post, I looked at the Ipad and its usefulness and found it wanting.

* No keyboard, on-screen or not.
* No usb port.
* Will not allow flash - so that's hundreds of thousands of sites it won't display.
* The document formats it will allow are limited and some rights restricted.
* You can't multi-task.
* Very few productivity apps.
* Only allows Safari.
* No webcam
* No SD or similar slots.
* No mainstream apps. Word? No, Photoshop? No. Anything else substantial? No.

I must be a half-wit too for not buying something that even the media reviews are scratching their heads at and wondering, just what is its central use!

I'm a happy half-wit then with my money still in my pocket.

Fair enough, it that's your take on it. I just have a problem with the assumption that anyone who's bought one and likes using it is some sort of moron.

If you spend a lot of money on something that you never use, maybe you're a moron. If you spend a lot of money on something that you enjoy using every day, causing you to discard your laptop in the corner gathering dust, how is that something moronic? Because the specs don't say so?

"Those idiots! How dare they get better value out of the iPad than out of their Windows laptop which has USB PORTS!!"

Talk about not being able to see the wood for the trees.

marco_polo

spottyelephant wrote: »

I heard the iPad is blood-cooled.

Nah that was just the prototype, the cooling system in production models were upgraded to use the tears of little orphans.

dr.bollocko

http://gizmodo.com/5549893/foxconn-workers-receiving-20-percent-salary-increase

Here. Have some money. Don't spend it on razors or rope please. Kthxbai.

chin_grin

So we can all agree to disagree.

I'll leave you with this.

df1985

i love the part that theyre getting singing and dancers..... but if all else fails install some nets to catch the jumpers!! then theyll be swiftly brought back to work id imagine!

ScumLord

Regardless of how many companies do it nothing justifies the way people are treated to manufacture overpriced consumerist junk. It's intolerable that any company would sink so low and have such disregard for a persons one and only chance to experience life and the universe.

I try to avoid Chinese products as much as possible but it is pretty close to impossible.

What can be done though, ban these products from entering the EU? We do it for many other reasons I don't see why all companies exporting to the EU shouldn't have to face an additional audit of employees working conditions and only allow companies that have similar human and worker rights to Europe. It can easily be included in quality controls.

Biggins

Pittens wrote: »

it's um, central, use is as a consumption device. A bit like a Kindle, but more than an e-reader, although it is that too. Although it has productivity packages as well, not unsurprisingly produced by Apple. You will be waiting a while until MS produces Office for an iPad.

But who cares. The amount of song and dancing made by people who wont buy Apple products is beyond belief. Nobody gives a f*ck. I am about as interested in your reason for not buying an iPad - which isnt what this thread is about - as you are in my reasons for not buying an xBox.

But since you didnt ask. here are my reasons for not buying an xBox

No keyboard, on-screen or not.
* No usb port.
* Will not allow flash - so that's hundreds of thousands of sites it won't display.
* The document formats it will allow are limited and some rights restricted.
* You can't multi-task.
* Very few productivity apps.
* Doesnt allows Safari.
* No webcam
* No SD or similar slots.
* No mainstream apps. Word? No, Photoshop? No. Anything else substantial? No.

Am i missing something here. Is it not a computer?

Yea, but as a consumption device (which is a very nice PR term) what is its central use?
It can use small lite applications and thats it.
So far there has been no substantial mainstream applications built for it - by any company - even its own.

As for what this thread is about, someone origonally had a go at people who give out about Apple and their products - and inferred that such people must be bad for doing that! (Why? We can't criticise Apple now! If we do, we're evil?)
So I mention the Ipad (as others before) - and state why I dislike Apple currently with their ever range of products so far that are limited, restricted in many ways, and far over priced to boot.
I don't dis-like Apple just because it's Apple. I do so for the over-priced crap their making.
Fair play to them for making it and fair play to getting others to fork out for their cash - thats the capitalist system for you.
Me, I pass on their stuff as currently I have no use for it. I have an E-reader (which displays a lot more formats, you can put your own stuff on it/off it/can connect to a lot more via cables, etc), I have a number of laptops what do a lot more and each are a lot cheaper than this Ipad limited use tool. End of story there.

And no, I' don't have an x-box (which is a games console with a cpu - as does your dish-washing machine and spin-dryer) either.

...by the way, the mention of USB ports etc. are mentioned because Apple (for good business reasons) wish to restrict the items you can put on it, and more so how you do it.

cornbb

ScumLord wrote: »

Regardless of how many companies do it nothing justifies the way people are treated to manufacture overpriced consumerist junk. It's intolerable that any company would sink so low and have such disregard for a persons one and only chance to experience life and the universe.

I try to avoid Chinese products as much as possible but it is pretty close to impossible.

What can be done though, ban these products from entering the EU? We do it for many other reasons I don't see why all companies exporting to the EU shouldn't have to face an additional audit of employees working conditions and only allow companies that have similar human and worker rights to Europe. It can easily be included in quality controls.

This is the way that international commerce works, unfortunately. Unless you go down the route of growing your own vegetables, making your own shoes and living without 21st century technology you can't be sure that your money hasn't been going towards exploiting workers, destroying ecosystems etc.

It doesn't just happen in Asia. Look at the whole debacle in the Gulf of Mexico. There's been an ecological disaster because of BP's epic ****up. Of course Shell has been causing a life of hell for people in the Niger delta for decades but people are less likely to take notice than when it's happening on their (the USA's) doorstep.

Whether you're buying an iPad, a €59 phone, a pair of shoes, a tank of petrol or a bunch of bananas, chances are that someone somewhere got screwed over because of it.

It's not just "consumerist junk". The vast majority of things we consider essential for modern living come from far away, poor countries.

dr.bollocko

cornbb wrote: »

This is the way that international commerce works, unfortunately. Unless you go down the route of growing your own vegetables, making your own shoes and living without 21st century technology you can't be sure that your money hasn't been going towards exploiting workers, destroying ecosystems etc.

It doesn't just happen in Asia. Look at the whole debacle in the Gulf of Mexico. There's been an ecological disaster because of BP's epic ****up. Of course Shell has been causing a life of hell for people in the Niger delta for decades but people are less likely to take notice than when it's happening on their (the USA's) doorstep.

Whether you're buying an iPad, a €59 phone, a pair of shoes, a tank of petrol or a bunch of bananas, chances are that someone somewhere got screwed over because of it.

So you're saying that hairy hippie students boycotting nestle products a few years ago didn't fix the world forever?
I'm sickened.

ScumLord

Biggins wrote: »

Yea, but as a consumption device (which is a very nice PR term) what is its central use?
It can use small lite applications and thats it.
So far there has been no substantial mainstream applications built for it - by any company - even its own.

As for what this thread is about, someone origonally had a go at people who give out about Apple and their products - and inferred that such people must be bad for doing that! (Why? We can't criticise Apple now! If we do, we're evil?)
So I mention the Ipad (as others before) - and state why I dislike Apple currently with their ever range of products so far that are limited, restricted in many ways, and far over priced to boot.
I don't dis-like Apple just because it's Apple. I do so for the over-priced crap their making.
Fair play to them for making it and fair play to getting others to fork out for their cash - thats the capitalist system for you.
Me, I pass on their stuff as currently I have no use for it. I have an E-reader (which displays a lot more formats, you can put your own stuff on it/off it/can connect to a lot more via cables, etc), I have a number of laptops what do a lot more and each are a lot cheaper than this Ipad limited use tool. End of story there.

And no, I' don't have an x-box (which is a games console with a cpu - as does your dish-washing machine and spin-dryer) either.

To be fair did Apple ever sell it as a PC better? I always assumed it was basically just a big iPhone in a way only meant for light browsing and with little to no business applications and it's never going to be anything other than a toy if the business world can't get any use out of it.

I'm still waiting for something similar to an iPad, I like the design and ease of use and would be nice to have one around the house to replace magazines in the toilet and such.

ScumLord

cornbb wrote: »

It's not just "consumerist junk". The vast majority of things we consider essential for modern living come from far away, poor countries.

I'd say at least 50% of what's manufactured in the world today is unnecessary and pointless consumerist junk. Hairy gel balls on a string that make silly noises, iPhones and a thousand variations on the iPhone oversupply of that junk while we're being told at the same time we'll run out of essentials if we keep making junk.

I don't buy food that's produced outside of the EU, that's one I don't compromise on.

cornbb

ScumLord wrote: »

I'd say at least 50% of what's manufactured in the world today is unnecessary and pointless consumerist junk. Hairy gel balls on a string that make silly noises, iPhones and a thousand variations on the iPhone oversupply of that junk while we're being told at the same time we'll run out of essentials if we keep making junk.

I don't buy food that's produced outside of the EU, that's one I don't compromise on.

So no bananas, chocolate, tea or coffee? If that's the case, hats off, I'm impressed by your moral fortitude.

previous user

stovelid wrote: »

It could be worse: they could be assembling aesthetically inferior PCs.

/rubs cock lovingly against Apple hardware.

Oh, dear I think i just pissed myself laughing.

Biggins

ScumLord wrote: »

...I'm still waiting for something similar to an iPad, I like the design and ease of use and would be nice to have one around the house to replace magazines in the toilet and such.

I'd hold out for the next version of the Kindle or Ipad similar tools out shortly.
Probably cheaper too.

ScumLord

cornbb wrote: »

So no bananas, chocolate, tea or coffee? If that's the case, hats off, I'm impressed by your moral fortitude.

Oh yeah coffee and chocolate bananas, Veg and meat is all from within Europe. The others bar coffee and bananas are luxury goods that I wouldn't buy all that often.

johnp

pickarooney wrote: »

What does that work out at for a 10-hour shift?

About three-fi....... oh wait, I see what you did there

Dravokivich

Aids By Google wrote: »

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6cf3f994-4437-11df-b327-00144feab49a.html

Were I work there are two of us. If one of us kills ourselves that means 50%, that's right, you heard me 50% of the employees would have committed suicide.

Shocking when you think about it.

I'm the only guy...

fúck...

--Kaiser--

cornbb wrote: »

This is the way that international commerce works, unfortunately. Unless you go down the route of growing your own vegetables, making your own shoes and living without 21st century technology you can't be sure that your money hasn't been going towards exploiting workers, destroying ecosystems etc.

It doesn't just happen in Asia. Look at the whole debacle in the Gulf of Mexico. There's been an ecological disaster because of BP's epic ****up. Of course Shell has been causing a life of hell for people in the Niger delta for decades but people are less likely to take notice than when it's happening on their (the USA's) doorstep.

Whether you're buying an iPad, a €59 phone, a pair of shoes, a tank of petrol or a bunch of bananas, chances are that someone somewhere got screwed over because of it.

It's not just "consumerist junk". The vast majority of things we consider essential for modern living come from far away, poor countries.

QFT

That's capitalism for ya. I'm sure a lot of people will get in a huff about this sort of stuff (and rightly so), but are they willing to pay a couple of grand for a basic laptop, or 300 euros for a pair of trainers.....not likely

ScumLord

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

QFT

That's capitalism for ya. I'm sure a lot of people will get in a huff about this sort of stuff (and rightly so), but are they willing to pay a couple of grand for a basic laptop, or 300 euros for a pair of trainers.....not likely

You won't pay those type of prices unless your buying handmade, which rarely happens in electronics anyway.

Allot of electronics manufacturing can be automated it's just the initial outlay cost is very high so it's cheaper to get some poor sod to do the work that would be done by a machine in this country. Electronics are fairly cheap where ever they're made. Allot of factories in Japan are nearly completely automated with staff sitting around doing nothing all day thanks to they're union deals.

Shoes and the likes can be made by machines just as easily here, the cost of manufacturing in Europe isn't really all that much higher when automation is brought in, your only paying for the security of the employees and the training they receive from our education centres.
It's more than likely the same education that is behind Chinese experts and I'd say a fair few of the engineers working over there are from Europe and the US and being paid as much if not more than they would in the west. So the only saving your making is on the backs of 3rd world people and your taking a massive drop in quality and service.

Products made by hand are much more prone to error and it's harder to trace where any problems occur, the quality can't be guaranteed as easily as with machines and can't be tested as easily.