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Naturism and Irish beaches

normar

My partner and I enjoy naturism and we regularly go to a number of Irish beaches which are considered naturist tolerant. This tolerant bit is important since there are no official naturist or clothing optional beaches ( or indeed any areas for that matter) in Ireland.
This makes Ireland the only country in Europe without a designated naturist area or beach, and we find that pretty sad and sorry.
Why is this? Is the naked human form still considered shameful, repulsive or offensive in our country? Is it that we Irish are not happy or as comfortable with our bodies as the hundreds of thousands of people - individuals, couples and families, who enjoy naturism in the rest of Europe.
Of course we don't believe this to be the case, but we do sometimes wonder when we are enjoying naturism, naked with the sun and warm wind on our bodies why there are such a tiny few people who have discovered this wonderful experience.
We know for example that there are many Irish who visit and enjoy naturist beaches abroad, but for the life of us we don't know why irish people don't enjoy it at home. And just before you all start to say it's too cold here, that's not true. There are many beautiful warm sunny days in Ireland in which it's a joy to be a naturist.
So what is it about us Irish that we don't seem to enjoy naturism, something which considered so natural and normal in every other country in Europe.
It can't be that the Guards are patrolling the beaches to arrest naturists, because we have walked and swam naked on beaches here often and never had any problem. Other beach users who see us don't faint or collapse at the sight of us. They just go past, sometimes with a nod and sometimes a wave but never belegerant towards us.
So tell us what you think. Why are just a tiny tiny few Irish people practising naturists. We would love to see more out on our beautiful beaches where there is plenty of room for all groups of people.
And finally to those who may have been considering becoming naturists we say do it. You will enjoy it as we do.

Mick and Nora

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simu

normar wrote:

We are prevented by law, from being nude on any beach anywhere in Ireland, on pain of a criminal prosecution. We are the only country in Western Europe (maybe the whole of Europe) where naturism is a criminal offence on all beaches.

That is pretty crazy actually.

looksee

OK, thats clear enough, in fact that paragraph was more informative than the whole rest of the thread. So I have no problem with any of that, but how does it help?

Do any of our legislators read Boards I wonder?

Yes, I know, Boards is a forum for discussion, but the people who are going to squawk 'immorality' are not likely to be the ones who read Boards. Doesn't it come back to the argument that you are looking for approval of your preferred lifestyle, even though the approval of Boards members will not make any difference to the likelyhood of your getting the 'clothing optional' beach you are looking for.

I suspect that no members would object to you pursuing your naturist activities on Boards though, so maybe thats a start!

simu

Maybe they're trying to convert one person at a time but you're right - they need to lobby TDs etc to see some real change.

I don't see what's so offensive about nudity tbh. Time to do away with this sort of Victorian prudery the remnants of which haunt us to this day.

Wibbs

simu wrote:

Maybe they're trying to convert one person at a time but you're right - they need to lobby TDs etc to see some real change.

Actually doing that might make an actual difference. If nudist, naturists want change, make the change.

I don't see what's so offensive about nudity tbh. Time to do away with this sort of Victorian prudery the remnants of which haunt us to this day.

Agreed. Nudity per se isn't really the issue. The only issue I have are some of the attitudes of interest groups attached to things like this. It all too often has the prostelysation, bordering on the religious about it. If you want to go around naked, fine. Whatever greases your wheel. It's when it drifts into "lifestyle" and all that, I'm dubious. When it appears to be an overwhelming need for others to agree and "join us". When it drifts into the realms of accusations of weirdo, pervert, idiot, porn addled fool etc(which has been touted here) if you don't embrace (insert left field lifestyle choice here), then I have the issue with the purveyors of such.

normar

simu wrote:

Maybe they're trying to convert one person at a time but you're right - they need to lobby TDs etc to see some real change.

I don't see what's so offensive about nudity tbh. Time to do away with this sort of Victorian prudery the remnants of which haunt us to this day.

Hi simu...

The Irish Naturist Assiciation, both as an organisation and through individual members have lobbied our TDs on this issue on many an occassion. But not one single TD was prepared to support the provision of Clothing Optional Beaches in Ireland, at least publicly anyway. Sad really. But we have tried.

The Board is one great way of raising issues for debate, naturism being just one of the many.

Its not about conversion to a lifestyle. Sorry if that is what comes across. We dont really mind if no one else wants to be naturists. for us at least its all about trying to gain a personal freedom to be naked within the law. A freedom and priviledge enjoyed by naturists of every other European country....except Ireland.

And we agree with you. There is nothing offensive about the naked human body.

Mick and Nora

WindSock

Ahh thats nice

from my experience, Naturists seem to mostly be nice middle aged or elderly couples.

simu

Normar, why do you think the TDs ignore you? Are they embarassed by the topic or is it that there are no votes in it? Just wondering!

Sangre

Try the ECHR.

JupiterKid

Actually, going to the European Court of Human Rights would be a good idea, but first you would have to get an ardent naturist campaign going by challenging the law and going through all the Irish courts first (i.e. getting arrested on a beach) and as Normar says, the Gardai are unlikely to do that in the naturist "tolerated" areas. Naturists also wouldn't want to create a confrontational mood lest it would lose them wider support.

I really like swimming nude - when I was over in Holland visiting my sister recently and with weather just like here in Ireland, there were five, yes, five indoor public swimming pools within a 20 minute train journey from her town where naturism is designated for a hour or two, once or twice a week. It's not seen as a big deal at all.

Look, Ireland is 30 or more years behind the rest of the Western world on this issue - time to change. I think that the reason not a single TD will push for this is because their fear of being ridiculed more than being denounced or losing votes. And sad to say, there would probably be very few votes to be gained by taking a pro-naturist stance.:(

Some sort of high profile media event is needed, where perhaps a celeb or two could voice their support to create a proper debate on the issue. Nothing will change otherwise. The INA needs to take more action here. Perhaps INA should not timidly ask Irish society for their wishes and rights, but demand them instead. Maybe what is needed is for some "outraged" textile person to give out about one of the naturist tolerated places and demand action by the Gardai against the naturists that use it. That might stir up the necessary debate and push for change.

normar

WindSock wrote: »

Ahh thats nice from my experience, Naturists seem to mostly be nice middle aged or elderly couples.

Hi Windsock.

It's a short sentence. (sometimes the best type)

But...I would like to hear more about your experience. Was this in Ireland or abroad? Strange how one experience can be different from another. We would be interested to know more if possible?

Normar

FonixDude

Hi folks.

I have only had a chance to read as far as page two on this thread. There are two point I would like to address. They are mainly being batted between Normar and Wibbs.

1. The question whether Naturism is natural or not is somewhat irrelevant unless you are hung up about the name of the pasttime. The issue is that it should be accpetable and provided for as much as any other pasttime.

2. The idea that Naturism is sexual is agreeably questionable. The reason for this however, is because of the way our culture, in particular popular media has conditioned us. 100 years ago, to see a womans ankle would be seen as sexual or erotic, do you suggest that women should remain covered in a similar manner today. The main reasons for naturism are (i) physical comfort and liberation and (ii) psycological / spiritual liberation. It is almost certain that some naturists practice for reasons of a sexual nature to some extent, but not all naturists do. Plus, even those that do, would not disrespect the limits of naturism. Admittedly in most of the Western World, nudity = sex, but what naturists would like to show the world is that this is not necessarily the case.

3. The reason Normar are denying that there are any sexual overtones in naturism are for the sake of naturism itself, I assume. For the most part, sex is always going to be in the atmosphere in any social gathering. The fact is that it is no more prevelant in naturism than in a textile enviroment. In fact it is conciously suppressed in the case of erections, whereas in a textile enviroment it isnt. I think at some point or other naturists feel as sexual and aroused as anyone, however they deny it and suppress it so as to be accepted and so that the textile community do not deny naturist rights on sexual grounds. That is to say, naturists' official line is to deny any sexuality as textilers assume it is all about sex, which it isnt. Otherwise why would families worldwide enjoy naturism together.

Hazlittle

The beach in Dalkey is a good spot during the day. Get a few nudes on a daily basis. I have no problem taking my kit off and jumping in. But I think nude sunbathing in an unofficial nudist beech is a bit wierd. Especial if kids come along.

Other than that there's nude night swimming in Howth.

Fuinseog

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Will there be boobies?

relective of the childish attitude the irish have towards the human body,a lmosa s bad as the american one. they freak out if you go naked into the sauna.

Hazlittle

Fuinseog wrote: »

relective of the childish attitude the irish have towards the human body,a lmosa s bad as the american one. they freak out if you go naked into the sauna.

I dont think nudity should be forced on people. Either be naked or not. Its your choice. Similar people can choose not being around naked people.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Hazlittle

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

How about we switch things around? Everyone everywhere has to be naked and clothists need to rally for a clothes only beech.

Pace2008

Hazlittle wrote: »

How about we switch things around? Everyone everywhere has to be naked and clothists need to rally for a clothes only beech.

I reckon the "clothist" movement would gain support pretty quickly when people start dying from exposure.

This is one of the greatest threads I’ve ever seen on Boards; thanks for resurrecting it. Well worth reading from the top for anyone who’s joined the party late.

Zombrex

Fuinseog wrote: »

they freak out if you go naked into the sauna.

We have boundary issues I think :pac:

Elle Collins

Not everyone is going to enjoy the sight of tits, arses, fannies and bollockes in their faces when they go to the beach, and personally I don't think anyone has a right to expose themselves in the name of 'naturism' or anything else on a non-designated beach where there will certainly be children and families. I wouldn't oppose a designated beach though, where people could spend all day buck-naked if they wanted to.

looksee

I genuinely doubt that children would be concerned about nakedness, they only get disturbed about things they are taught to be disturbed about. They are just as likely to shout out embarrasing observations about people whether they are clothed or not.

On the other hand many people would probably prefer to be on a beach where they will not feel embarrassed by other people's lack of clothing, so it would be better for everyone if some beaches were designated nude bathing.

Tramore for example has a very long beach that a more distant section could be marked off for nude bathing and if people don't wish to see nude bathing, they don't have to go to that end of the beach. It would give the lone lurkers in the dunes something else to look at anyway

Elle Collins

looksee wrote: »

I genuinely doubt that children would be concerned about nakedness, they only get disturbed about things they are taught to be disturbed about.

Well I'd be quite prepared to teach young kids to be disturbed by oul fellas exposing themselves Looksee, and I think it'd be a very irresponsible parent who wouldn't.

Stark

In the pool where I go swimming, plenty of parents seem to be very happy to take their (sometimes 12 year old) girls into the men's changing room to see all the men getting naked. Whether the men there like it or not. This is in spite of family changing rooms being provided.

The kids really don't seem to give a toss either. Granted, the men there were all reasonably young. Maybe it would be a different matter if there were a few over 65s there, what with elderly bodies being shameful and all that :rolleyes:

AARRRGH

looksee wrote: »

I genuinely doubt that children would be concerned about nakedness, they only get disturbed about things they are taught to be disturbed about.

Spot on.

Nudity is completely natural. It is our sick world which has made it seem wrong.

looksee

Elle Collins wrote: »

Well I'd be quite prepared to teach young kids to be disturbed by oul fellas exposing themselves Looksee, and I think it'd be a very irresponsible parent who wouldn't.

But there is a world of difference between an 'auld fella' specifically drawing attention to himself and people minding their own business wandering around on a beach. And I suspect people exposing themselves are more pathetic than dangerous. I would be more concerned about fully dressed, respectable looking people offering children sweets or rides in a car.

I have no particular interest in naturism, but I don't worry about it either.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Elle Collins wrote: »

Well I'd be quite prepared to teach young kids to be disturbed by oul fellas exposing themselves Looksee, and I think it'd be a very irresponsible parent who wouldn't.

Go to a beach on the continent and you'll see how silly you're being. If anything a bikini/mens togs will play on a child's natural curiosity. Bet you a tenner your kids will be looking at porn on the internet earlier than nudists kids

Macha

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Go to a beach on the continent and you'll see how silly you're being.

Indeed. Most beaches are topless for men and women on the continent anyway.

It's actually much healthier for children to see what normal bodies look like to provide a contrast to the freakishly perfect bodies they see in the media.

topper75

normar wrote: »

This makes Ireland the only country in Europe without a designated naturist area or beach, and we find that pretty sad and sorry.

This naturism thing is not big in my agenda. However, I am disturbed by the above fact. It reflects poorly on us. All that media nonsense over the last ten years about the new confident Ireland. Where are we really?

taconnol wrote: »

It's actually much healthier for children to see what normal bodies look like to provide a contrast to the freakishly perfect bodies they see in the media.

Good point.

Fuinseog

Stark wrote: »

In the pool where I go swimming, plenty of parents seem to be very happy to take their (sometimes 12 year old) girls into the men's changing room to see all the men getting naked. Whether the men there like it or not. This is in spite of family changing rooms being provided.

The kids really don't seem to give a toss either. Granted, the men there were all reasonably young. Maybe it would be a different matter if there were a few over 65s there, what with elderly bodies being shameful and all that :rolleyes:

men still swim naked in palces like the forty foot.

when did the penis and breasts become objects of disgust? its something we cannot blame on our catholic upbringing as the Americans are even more paranoic about the naked body than we are. even a naked toddler is unacceptable there, while it seems to be tolerated here.

going into a sauna here is a bit of a joke. wear a swimsuit and you are not getting the full benefits, yet the naked body seems to cause offence.

I notice a lot of women here leave shortly after men entering the sauna.

Elle Collins

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Bet you a tenner your kids will be looking at porn on the internet earlier than nudists kids

I remember you arguing for the natural and inoffensive nature of pornography not too long ago. It seems you need to decide which camp you're in on that issue.

As I've said, I wouldn't have a problem with designated beaches for nudists, live and let live and all that, but I wouldn't like it to be acceptable on beaches generally because I am one of those majority who is not going to enjoy the sight of tits, arses, fannies and bollockes in their face when they go to the beach.

I've been on plenty of beaches on the continent by the way, and seen some horrific sights while I was there. I've no apologies to make for being repulsed by big fat hairy arses, miles of cellulite, rolls of flab, and breasts six inches wide but three foot long.

Hazlittle

taconnol wrote: »

It's actually much healthier for children to see what normal bodies look like to provide a contrast to the freakishly perfect bodies they see in the media.

Spot on. I dont know if there is a study but I would wager that kids brought up nudist friendly are less likely to have unplanned pregnancy or STDs.

Elle Collins wrote: »

As I've said, I wouldn't have a problem with designated beaches for nudists, live and let live and all that, but I wouldn't like it to be acceptable on beaches generally because I am one of those majority who is not going to enjoy the sight of tits, arses, fannies and bollockes in their face when they go to the beach.

In my view all beeches should be nude friendly and then have special beeches for the clothed.