monument wrote: » It isn't irrelevant. Take the "like a concentration-camp train" comment: Do you think the Dart at peak times is comparable to concentration-camp trains?
DWCommuter wrote: » I said "sentionalist or not". But the situation remains the same in the context of the service offered. You are literally focusing on the presentation rather than the many great facts contained within. Therefore it is irrelevant.
dowlingm wrote: » Monument - let's deal with your points one at a time. You ask if 4-tracking the Kildare Line is a waste. Well, actually it is IF IT IS NOT USED AS INTENDED. The 4 tracking was intended so that IC express trains could overtake stopping commuter trains. If it's not being used for the purpose intended, it's a waste.
"Our Mark 3 carriages... are close to the end of their useful life unless one spends a lot of money on refurbishment. However, a Mark 3 carriage in itself is inert and needs something to pull it, a locomotive. That is a very traditional way of doing things because, given the relatively short distances we have in Ireland, it means uncoupling the locomotive and putting it to the other end,"
Cookie_Monster wrote: » in terms of shunting etc, could they fix semi-permanent rakes together to avoid this?
Victor wrote: » Other than running around, I suspect that rakes stay together for weeks on end and only change if there is a problem or a maintenance milestone.
JHMEG wrote: » monument, your how could it be overcrowded if people are using the bus in droves is simplistic. I'm not familiar with the northern line, but I know if you took 20% of the passengers off the Maynooth peak services trains and put them on buses, it'd still be very over crowded. I imagine the northern line is similar.
Cookie_Monster wrote: » never mind the fact that the trains will sit in the station in Heuston or Cork or Galway or wherever for an hour or so between runnings anyway, a whole 5 mins of that devoted to running around is hardly a major issue.
GM071class wrote: » It's always lovely to see the management of IÉ getting a trashing.
KC61 wrote: » Until the next tranche of 22K sets are delivered from next year, there is insufficient rolling stock to operate extra services on the Kildare route, particularly with Pace coming on stream this year. However, this was partly due to the fact that two 3-car sets were destroyed en route from Korea to Ireland and are to be replaced in the forthcoming delivery programme. That element of the story is probably a tad sensationalist as the 4-tracking has delivered peak-hour improvements whereby intercity services can overtake commuter services in the event of trains being delayed rather than being kept behind them. I understand that the two outbound tracks (the old ones) are now being fully relaid so there is some time yet before the KRP is able to deliver its full potential.
monument wrote: » Take your example of 20% of passengers off the Maynooth line, that's going to be a lot more bearable, overcrowding is going to be less of an issue. After all, trains are designed to be full at peak time.
dowlingm wrote: » You ask if 4-tracking the Kildare Line is a waste. Well, actually it is IF IT IS NOT USED AS INTENDED. The 4 tracking was intended so that IC express trains could overtake stopping commuter trains. If it's not being used for the purpose intended, it's a waste.
DWCommuter wrote: » But surely the thrust of the story is the fact that after the next tranche of 22Ks are delivered next year, there still won't be any additional services provided.
penexpers wrote: » I don't understand why 22Ks were going to be used for Hazelhatch-Heuston - my understanding is they are completelty unsuited to routes where there is frequent stopping/starting.
monument wrote: » Sensationalism is a distraction. It won't be taken seriously.
KC61 wrote: » I don't think that is necessarily the case - that will not be until the second half of next year and into 2012. Things will have changed by then. The article is referring to the end of 2010.
monument wrote: » Sensationalism is a distraction. It won't be taken seriously. It makes Barry Kenny's job easier, not harder. It's far easier to dismiss the valid points when such are surrounded by sensationalist nonsense. It allows others in Irish Rail and those in power feel like all of the valid points are also hyperbole. Barry Kennys job has always been easy because he has spent most of it backed by hundreds of millions in investment and the ability to promise the sun moon and stars. Those days are gone and I think his more agressive tone lately is due to the fact that IE are in real trouble financially and he now has to justify these savings measures and can no longer roll out the usual baloney of "after decades of under investment, we are now investing very heavily in many areas." He once had an answer to every question from radio listeners. He even had a cosy set up on Newstalks the right hook programme where he regularly boasted about this that and the other, often unchallenged. But the landscape is vastly different now and he's on the receiving end of the sensentionalism for a change. Will he cope? I doubt it.
Barry Kennys job has always been easy because he has spent most of it backed by hundreds of millions in investment and the ability to promise the sun moon and stars. Those days are gone and I think his more agressive tone lately is due to the fact that IE are in real trouble financially and he now has to justify these savings measures and can no longer roll out the usual baloney of "after decades of under investment, we are now investing very heavily in many areas." He once had an answer to every question from radio listeners. He even had a cosy set up on Newstalks the right hook programme where he regularly boasted about this that and the other, often unchallenged. But the landscape is vastly different now and he's on the receiving end of the sensentionalism for a change. Will he cope? I doubt it.
DWCommuter wrote: » The article states that the KRP will be completed later this year. (2010) It then states that planned extra trains for next year (2011) have been put on hold. An IE spokesperson is quoted as calling it "a pause in expansion that will be reletively short term". Both your "things will have changed by then" quote and IEs "reletively short term" are heavily dependent on an economic upswing, which is hugely unpredictable anyway.
KC61 wrote: » The point that I am making is that the earliest that extra trains could start is December 2011 as there are no trains available to operate them.
DWCommuter wrote: » I know that, but IE have confirmed that this won't be happening. So how is it a red herring? All additional services on the KRP have been postponed. What does it matter about when they were meant to start.
KC61 wrote: » I don't read it as that at all. Given the manner that timetables are developed within the company, the planning for the December 2011 timetable would only be in its infancy if even started yet. I read it as meaning that nothing will happen until after the new trains are delivered. Given that planning for timetables changes right up until the last minute, saying now that nothing will happen in the December 2011 timetable is a complete red herring.
GM071class wrote: » I actually texted George Hook when he had 'The King of PR' Barry Kenny on with him. In the text I posed the question of why its slower, by an HOUR in some cases, than it was in the 80's to get to Cork from Dublin. Especially with new carriages, newer locomotives, new track, and signalling and so on. The response by Barry was on short of a literary masterpiece! He said; "the trains are slower now due to health and safety reasons, as well the trains are now running on lines that are more congested...." Without the priviledge of a one-one live debate with him, this was just left alone by the Hooky-monster. Its amazing what he gets away with saying... Truely the PR king!!
Judgement Day wrote: » Yes, despite being a fan of 'The Right Hook' the unchallenged IE/Barry Kenny 'love-in' is enough to make me spew. How much are Newstalk being paid by CIE/IE for this spot? As much as the Phoenix magazine were paid in pointless double page spread adverts from CIE/IE for dropping ALL vaguely critical pieces about the company? The simple fact is that the CIE/IE Board/senior management are past the end of their useful life as is that useless prick Noel Dempsey not the MkIIIs ......or the Cravens with their 'steam' heating....:D
KC61 wrote: » The point that I am making is that the earliest that extra trains could start is December 2011 as there are no trains available to operate them. So regardless of what is said in the article it is a red herring.
