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What to do if undergraduate degree does not qualify?

mcranty

hey,
i have just realised that teaching is the career option i want to take - after a very lengthy career process! better late than never people keep telling me.
i have a degree in communications from dcu, a PG Cert in lifestyle journalism from london college of fashion and an MA in cultural policy and arts management from ucd. i want to teach english at second level. now i know for sure that comunications does not qualify as a teaching subject. i also get the impression that my cert and ma will count for nothing as they do not ostensibly translate directly into a teaching subject.
does anybody know what you do to bring your education up to the qualifying level for the teaching council? i really don't want to invest in another masters - financially or time-wise, especially just to bring me to hdip level.
i would really appreciate any advice
- do i have to do another masters?
- do i have to do a BA?!
- do i go to the UK?
- is it just not gonna happen for me?!

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pathway33

This is not what you want to hear but find out from the teaching council about the possibility of just doing the literature modules in the DCU Oscail BA. It's a distance learning degree. The teaching council recognise this degree. You already have a degree so less than half of the Oscail degree should suffice providing you focus on th literature modules. www.oscail.ie for more info

cloneslad

Hi Pathway (sorry to hijack the thread too McRanty but it's along the same likes as your question)

I have an honours degree in Business Studies (1:1 if it makes a diff) and an Msc in Marketing. (2:1)

I previously taught English in Korea for 18 months and I'm back here again until next March.

I know my course is recognised to get on the Pgde program but would this only be for marketing / business/ finance etc or would I stand a chance of getting into English teaching from it?

I would prefer to be an English teacher who can also cover business than a full on Business Teacher.

Would I have to do those modules on the oscail site previously mentioned (6 modules x €825 is too much for me to want to pay to get onto the PGDE) or would I be able to get on it with my qualifications and Experience?

Thanks

Powerhouse

cloneslad wrote: »

Hi Pathway (sorry to hijack the thread too McRanty but it's along the same likes as your question)

I have an honours degree in Business Studies (1:1 if it makes a diff) and an Msc in Marketing. (2:1)

I previously taught English in Korea for 18 months and I'm back here again until next March.

I know my course is recognised to get on the Pgde program but would this only be for marketing / business/ finance etc or would I stand a chance of getting into English teaching from it?

I would prefer to be an English teacher who can also cover business than a full on Business Teacher.

Would I have to do those modules on the oscail site previously mentioned (6 modules x €825 is too much for me to want to pay to get onto the PGDE) or would I be able to get on it with my qualifications and Experience?

Thanks

You could get onto the PGDE as a Business teacher, but it would be traditional for English teachers to have actually studied the subject to degree level. In fact the Teaching Council insists on that.

There is also a huge distinction between TEFL and teaching English literature in a secondary school. Not saying you wouldn't like that but three years of studying medieval literature in college might take its toll.

cloneslad

Powerhouse wrote: »

You could get onto the PGDE as a Business teacher, but it would be traditional for English teachers to have actually studied the subject to degree level. In fact the Teaching Council insists on that.

There is also a huge distinction between TEFL and teaching English literature in a secondary school. Not saying you wouldn't like that but three years of studying medieval literature in college might take its toll.

Oh, I know the difference is quite large, I don't consider myself a proper teacher out here in so much as I would if I was teaching back home. I suppose it's because I make my classes fun and my kids enjoy them and my memories of school were mostly of boring teachers not making my time in their class fun, memorable or indeed intellectually stimulating.

You would be very right about the medieval literature study, I couldn't face doing three more years of university let alone studying medieval literature.

I know I would get into most business studies PGDE programs, especially when they get rid of the teaching hours points (as I have none in Ireland) but I suppose it's because I didn't like studying business studies myself, I much rathered the practical side of it, especially the marketing side that makes me not 100% committed to becoming a business studies teacher.

I wouldn't mind computers and business, as long as I could break up the monotony of teaching business everyday.....I would def have to give my students some practical assignments as studying by the book is not the best way to keep teenagers motivated.

spurious

Studying by the book is not the best way to keep anyone motivated.
'Proper teachers' do not bore their students, bad ones do.

cloneslad

spurious wrote: »

Studying by the book is not the best way to keep anyone motivated.
'Proper teachers' do not bore their students, bad ones do.

I agree 100% unfortunately most, if not all of my former teachers fall into the category of bad teacher and I only finished my schooling 7 years ago. Actually quite a few of my former lecturers where guilty of it too.

I suppose it is an easy option for some to choose.

rainbowtrout

cloneslad wrote: »

I agree 100% unfortunately most, if not all of my former teachers fall into the category of bad teacher and I only finished my schooling 7 years ago. Actually quite a few of my former lecturers where guilty of it too.

I suppose it is an easy option for some to choose.

Well you also seem to think that it would be an easy option to become an English teacher but don't want to get the qualifications to do so.

Good teachers make their lessons fun and interesting.

If you are not interested in teaching business and that is your only route into secondary teaching do not do it. If you are bored with business that is the attitude you will convey to your classes as it is the only subject you will be able to teach. You will not be given English classes.

peanuthead

cloneslad wrote: »

I agree 100% unfortunately most, if not all of my former teachers fall into the category of bad teacher and I only finished my schooling 7 years ago. Actually quite a few of my former lecturers where guilty of it too.

I suppose it is an easy option for some to choose.

Not only is it an easy option, some teachers are almost bullied into it by parents and peers.

Some of my classes have very little written work in their copies, maybe half a copy book since the start of the year. While my peers don't teach like that they understand why I do it (It being the whole creative approach they teach you in PGDE) However I was challenged by parents about it at a parent teacher meeting!!

Which is funny, as my students are very happy with the way I teach and have agreed that they actually know the material rather than having it in a copy. Note to parents - find out what you're children actually know before you come up giving out to me for teaching them nothing!!!!

@cloneslad You can do the English methods in your PGDE and while you will not be recognised as an English teacher by TC, you will get a cert from college to state that you have completed methods and this means you may get some hours teaching it to supplement your timetable. You will not be eligible to interview for a permanent job in English though.

cloneslad

peanuthead wrote: »

Not only is it an easy option, some teachers are almost bullied into it by parents and peers.

Some of my classes have very little written work in their copies, maybe half a copy book since the start of the year. While my peers don't teach like that they understand why I do it (It being the whole creative approach they teach you in PGDE) However I was challenged by parents about it at a parent teacher meeting!!

Which is funny, as my students are very happy with the way I teach and have agreed that they actually know the material rather than having it in a copy. Note to parents - find out what you're children actually know before you come up giving out to me for teaching them nothing!!!!

@cloneslad You can do the English methods in your PGDE and while you will not be recognised as an English teacher by TC, you will get a cert from college to state that you have completed methods and this means you may get some hours teaching it to supplement your timetable. You will not be eligible to interview for a permanent job in English though.

The parents here in Korea are quite similar, I teach a very high standard class of 14 year olds and it's a speaking class using a terrible book full of repitition and grammar / vocab the kids already know and understand. My principal and the korean teacher who teaches them in her class both know and want me to engage in conversation with the students and brush up on their writing skills a little (the korean teacher is teaching a writing book so I should really just be doing a minimal amount of writing)

However, as the parents are paying a lot of money to send their kids to my class I have to give them something tangible to make them feel better about spending the money, this usually means I spend 2/3rds of my class speaking / listening to the class / having debates / getting them to give presentations / speeches etc and the other 1/3rd is spent with them filling in blanks in a book and doing boring writing assignments.

I wouldn't waste my time with the English PGDE if it didn't allow me to gain full time employment. I will prob end up doing it in business, if I decide to do it at all.

peanuthead

cloneslad wrote: »

The parents here in Korea are quite similar, I teach a very high standard class of 14 year olds and it's a speaking class using a terrible book full of repitition and grammar / vocab the kids already know and understand. My principal and the korean teacher who teaches them in her class both know and want me to engage in conversation with the students and brush up on their writing skills a little (the korean teacher is teaching a writing book so I should really just be doing a minimal amount of writing)

However, as the parents are paying a lot of money to send their kids to my class I have to give them something tangible to make them feel better about spending the money, this usually means I spend 2/3rds of my class speaking / listening to the class / having debates / getting them to give presentations / speeches etc and the other 1/3rd is spent with them filling in blanks in a book and doing boring writing assignments.

I wouldn't waste my time with the English PGDE if it didn't allow me to gain full time employment. I will prob end up doing it in business, if I decide to do it at all.

Taking english methods alongside your business is not a huge amount of extra work - it's actually only two extra assignments

cloneslad

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Well you also seem to think that it would be an easy option to become an English teacher but don't want to get the qualifications to do so.

Where did I say I thought it would be easy to become an English teacher? I asked if my qualifications would allow me a shorter route onto becoming one, I never once suggested it was easy to do it.

I don't want to teach English because it's easy, I would like to teach it because it is a subject I enjoy teaching.

I think after having studied for 4 years for my honours degree, working for two years to pay for a masters, then studying again for a further year for my masters degree and now working again with the thought of possibly doing a PGDE shows that I am not lacking in hard work and commitment to gain qualifications, I just don't think I could afford the expense or the time required to do a 3/4 year bachelor of arts to become an English teacher.

If I was to become a buisness teacher I would only do so if I knew it was possible to give my students more practical classes and get them working interactively like some of my lecturers used to do, not just a read and write class following the book. you have to remember my only experience of business studies school teachers has been from my time and school and these classes were not made to be enjoyable nor did they have any effort put into them and the teachers who taught me are still using the exact same methods in my old school to this day despite the great new facilities that have been provided for them.

cloneslad

peanuthead wrote: »

Taking english methods alongside your business is not a huge amount of extra work - it's actually only two extra assignments

You mean I do the English methods along with business for my PGDE?

I am totally clueless on this tbh. What is the length time, approx cost etc?

Considering I am in Korea until next march it would be september 2011 when I would be doing the PGDE (I would be 27) so I really coudln't see myself doing another 2-3 years in full time education.

peanuthead

cloneslad wrote: »

You mean I do the English methods along with business for my PGDE?

I am totally clueless on this tbh. What is the length time, approx cost etc?

Considering I am in Korea until next march it would be september 2011 when I would be doing the PGDE (I would be 27) so I really coudln't see myself doing another 2-3 years in full time education.

Yeah, you apply for the PGDE before Dec 1st of the year before you want to do it. In your case you apply December of this year.

You apply to teach in the subjects that you will be recognised to teach, in your case business, in my case English and Spanish.

When you get there you may choose to adopt the methodolgies of other subjects, which means attending the classes on them and submitting assignments on them (2 in total) You can choose to do this for as many subjects as you like, although 3-4 is the recommended max as there is a lot more going on during the year.

I took CSPE, was going to take maths too, sorry I didn't now. You could take English for this.

The info I'm giving you is Maynooth specific as that's where I am. You should get info on the other colleges to make sure its the same.

This year the PGDE was about 6.500 give or take a hundred euro or so. It's no more expensive if you do more methods.

cloneslad

peanuthead wrote: »

Yeah, you apply for the PGDE before Dec 1st of the year before you want to do it. In your case you apply December of this year.

You apply to teach in the subjects that you will be recognised to teach, in your case business, in my case English and Spanish.

When you get there you may choose to adopt the methodolgies of other subjects, which means attending the classes on them and submitting assignments on them (2 in total) You can choose to do this for as many subjects as you like, although 3-4 is the recommended max as there is a lot more going on during the year.

I took CSPE, was going to take maths too, sorry I didn't now. You could take English for this.

The info I'm giving you is Maynooth specific as that's where I am. You should get info on the other colleges to make sure its the same.

This year the PGDE was about 6.500 give or take a hundred euro or so. It's no more expensive if you do more methods.

Cheers for that mate, nice to know a bit more about it, I'm still in the information gathering stage at the minute

mattyhislop

Sorry to dig up an old post but I'm in a similar situation to some of the posters above. I have an honours Business & Law degree but after a few years doing various different jobs, I think I would like to go back to train as a secondary school maths teacher. According to the TC's website, the subjects my degree allows me to teach are business, economics & accounting.

Does anyone know if the TC will allow you to teach maths if you undertake a year long diploma course in maths rather than doing another lengthy degree? I read something on the TC website about having to do a 3 year degree with a 30% minimum maths content from each of the 3 years. Ive tried phoning the TC to discuss the situation with 1 year courses but it seems quite hard to get through to them at the moment.

Has anyone had similar experiences in the past?

Here is one of the courses I was looking at:

http://www.ucd.ie/graduatestudies/prospectivestudents/taughtprogrammes/empstaught/higherdiplomainmathematicalstudies/

Thanks

Avery

Heya

Yeah I noticed that course aswell. I too, coming from an Economics/Business background have some third level maths and might like to build on it at some point. It seems to suggest that

"The programme may be of particular benefit to teachers or potential teachers who would like to include mathematics among the subjects that they are eligible to teach at Leaving Certificate Level."

I would be wary until you get any kind of confirmation from the TC on that.., but you would have thought UCD would have clarified this.

You need to have covered a certain amount of maths during your undergrad to get on the course (10 University Credits), it seems like its quite a big step up.

mattyhislop

Hi Avery

Thanks for that. Yeah, I figured it would be best to run it by the Teaching Council first. Just can't get through to them at the moment!

It does look like a very good course but if it's not acceptable by the TC, it probably wouldn't be worth it.

I'll send them email and post back up here when I get a response.

Anyone else done this / similar course?