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FAS Work Placement Program

ThomasCreeby

In a time of deep recession I am absolutely baffled how the government can sponsor a program where by companies are paid to take on new staff, who can then work for said companies for periods of up to 12 months while receiving only their dole as compensation for working the guts of a 40 hour week.
Slave labour and the reduction of the minimum wage is already here and its called the FAS Work Placement Program.
I'm 24 years old and I've been unemployed for over a year and frankly I find it disgusting. I'm really sick of logging onto the FAS website and finding that 90% of the jobs they now advertise are WPP schemes.
What I find even more insidious however is that a person can have their Jobseekers Allowance cut if they are not prepared to be forced by the government to work for less than the minimum wage???
This is the type of "innovation" is emblematic of the Irish Government's attitude towards young people trying to find work.
How many of the companies who have signed up for cheap labour are actually that poorly off that they aren't arsed paying a receptionist or an admin?
The whole WPP stinks to high heaven of incompetence and wasted money, not to mention offering zero financial incentive to get people back to work.
Does anyone else think this entire scheme is comically inept at trying to achieve what it set out to or am I alone in thinking its a pile of b*%$cks?

Cheers Boards,

Thomas

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RichardAnd

Vinyl Noodle wrote: »

I finished college last year too but I was lucky enough to do a six month internship while I was there cause I had to take a semester out. It was the best thing to happen because I realised how little I knew. I think this WPP1 brings some attention to a big problem with our colleges in Ireland.

On my first day of college I was told I would be earning €50,000 a year after I graduated by my head lecturer, what a joke I am now faced to work for free.

All college courses should aim to provide internships for its students, there is obviously a demand for cheap labour and either doing it over the summer or instead of a semester would give graduates like myself a real grounding in the real world.

Any foreign students in Ireland are usually alot older and have lots of experience before they finish college, as graduates Irish students aren't even in the same league.

Never felt so let down in my life then by my IT, careers office a joke and lecturers never giving one real piece of advice that has helped me since I left.

You didn't happen to go to DCU by any chance did you? I got told something similar when I started there back in the day. I knew 50k a year a BS then (and that was Celtic Tiger times). The careers office out there are pretty useless too.

My opinion of colleges has never been a high one. My advice to anyone in college is to take everything they are told about careers expectations with a pinch of salt (or an entire shaker). No matter how well you do academically, the cold facts are that the only person going to help you get a job is yourself. It's a harsh reality and one I find college plebs don't seem to grasp.

danman

Vinyl Noodle wrote: »

Also I am wondering if any one else felt unprepared after taking this scheme after coming straight from college, I was in UL and feel that I am definatley lacking a lot of practical skills that now seem to be completly pivitol to my job. After a 4 year course I feel cheated.:(

I finished college last year too but I was lucky enough to do a six month internship while I was there cause I had to take a semester out. It was the best thing to happen because I realised how little I knew. I think this WPP1 brings some attention to a big problem with our colleges in Ireland.

On my first day of college I was told I would be earning €50,000 a year after I graduated by my head lecturer, what a joke I am now faced to work for free.

All college courses should aim to provide internships for its students, there is obviously a demand for cheap labour and either doing it over the summer or instead of a semester would give graduates like myself a real grounding in the real world.

Any foreign students in Ireland are usually alot older and have lots of experience before they finish college, as graduates Irish students aren't even in the same league.

Never felt so let down in my life then by my IT, careers office a joke and lecturers never giving one real piece of advice that has helped me since I left.[/QUOTE]

When I went to university, 20 years ago, the University of Ulster had a compulsary employment year. Every course member had to do a year out of study to gain experience.

This experience was assessed by the university and a certain was issued upon completion.

It was a great scheme. I'm not sure if they still do it, but I'd be surprised if they're not.

Vinyl Noodle

I went to DkIT I didn't mention it in my post just because I didn't want to give anyone the idea that it was something only one college doesn't do. It just shows that colleges as intelligent as the people you run them think they are, they haven't identified the needs of employeers and to have experienced, grounded college graduates.

Its a bit tough to call them college plebs though I was talking to a friend recently and I was trying to give him some hope on finding a job after he finished his Masters. He just turned and said, "I'd expect with masters to get a job pretty quickly". We all find out how useless qualifications are now without experience

Stark

We're generally extremely happy with DCU and UCC graduates where I work (IT). Both colleges have provided us with bright motivated graduates who are capable of jumping right in. Although the quality of graduates from UCC has declined in the past year or so.

maninasia

Depends how deep you want to go into a subject, having an extra year of hard academic graft or exposure to a wider range of up to the minute research is very useful in science, maths, engineering, medicine and a whole host of other subjects. There is plenty of time to learn the world of work later.

Vinyl Noodle

maninasia wrote: »

Depends how deep you want to go into a subject, having an extra year of hard academic graft or exposure to a wider range of up to the minute research is very useful in science, maths, engineering, medicine and a whole host of other subjects. There is plenty of time to learn the world of work later.

Thats a very good point and experience may suit different courses more than most, but also people who are in any profession are expected to stay up todate to any development in their industry and they usually do.

Also many of the industries you have mentioned have minium entry tests to establish what you have learned in college while the interview is used to ask about your experience and this is where an internship could decided if you get the job or not.

But I agree with you an internship isn't the one solution to getting a job but I think a varied CV is important to have and a college could help its students alot if it thought outside just its academic role.

[Deleted User]

Eliza Lynch wrote: »

I have not read all the posts as there are ten pages.....

I am on this scheme - I am a recent graduate.

I was just wondering how much do employers(- ie my employer) get for taking part in the scheme? I know they get x amount but it would just be interesting.

I am getting good experience and I will be very happy to have it on my Cv as it was barren without it However it was HELL dealing with FAS who are incredibly incredibly inefficent - my dole was cut, I couldnt get rent allowance etc etc etc. I can't ever understand why in this country government bodies can't work together? It has made me incredibly suspicious of all public servants and public bodies. I have spent 4 months on the phone to different groups/offices etc and nothing, my bf's parents are putting me up as my placement is 3 hrs away from home. Although I am glad of the experience it has been very stressful and I am definately no financially better off.

I am optimistic but it really is hard.:o

Also I am wondering if any one else felt unprepared after taking this scheme after coming straight from college, I was in UL and feel that I am definatley lacking a lot of practical skills that now seem to be completly pivitol to my job. After a 4 year course I feel cheated.:(

Are you an employee on the WPP1 or an EMPLOYER ?
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64218760&postcount=2
Going by your previous posts you have your own business?

[Deleted User]

http://fas.ie/en/wpps.asp?v=538896
Debt collectors now for this scheme!

Stark

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you an employee on the WPP1 or an EMPLOYER ?
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64218760&postcount=2
Going by your previous posts you have your own business?

I'm sure employers love the scheme. In much the same way as I love ATM machines that spit out free money.

RichardAnd

Vinyl Noodle wrote: »

I went to DkIT I didn't mention it in my post just because I didn't want to give anyone the idea that it was something only one college doesn't do. It just shows that colleges as intelligent as the people you run them think they are, they haven't identified the needs of employeers and to have experienced, grounded college graduates.

Its a bit tough to call them college plebs though I was talking to a friend recently and I was trying to give him some hope on finding a job after he finished his Masters. He just turned and said, "I'd expect with masters to get a job pretty quickly". We all find out how useless qualifications are now without experience

That guy is in for a surprise allright, and not the good kind.

Qualifications are pretty useless when it comes down to it. My degree is just one line on my CV and, as best I can remember, no employer ever asked me much about what I did in college. Kind of make you wonder why the state pays for college for so many people when most of them will be taking off their mortarboards and heading to the nearest dole office.

But that subject of college fees is a can of worms that I'm not going to open.

the_syco

danman wrote: »

When I went to university, 20 years ago, the University of Ulster had a compulsary employment year. Every course member had to do a year out of study to gain experience.

This experience was assessed by the university and a certain was issued upon completion.

It was a great scheme. I'm not sure if they still do it, but I'd be surprised if they're not.

3 years ago, I knew a few people who did this in Maynooth. A year ago, I think many couldn't find a company to take them on for a year. The WPP1 should be used to get them a job in their sector, IMO.

AARRRRGH

Stark wrote: »

We're generally extremely happy with DCU and UCC graduates where I work (IT). Both colleges have provided us with bright motivated graduates who are capable of jumping right in. Although the quality of graduates from UCC has declined in the past year or so.

We must work for the same company because I would say exactly the same thing.
DCU, UL grads are excellent. But i would say it takes them a while to kick into the groove.
UCC have gone to sh!t. Trinity grads in IT are useless.

Of course there are exceptions, but generally thats what I see.

Some of those Unis offer work placement in 3rd year, which makes a huge difference. The students get paid a decent wage for their work experience too. And there is no cost to the tax payer.

katkin

Tigger wrote: »

no the employer gets a staff member
the staff member gets paid thier welfare and trained

its a very good deal as if someone comes to me looking for a job after working for six months effectivally for free then i'll know they are serious

anyone coming to me after 6 months on he dole has zerp chance thats just how it is

i don't care if you think you tried to get work the guy/gal who got work is the better motivated

I would imagine that logic is why people take up these positions. I've been on dole for a while now and recently started a one-day a week volunteer position to keep up and build skills, experience, network and for CV. I have plenty of company where I am so my employer gets loads of work done for nothing. I have always had my doubts about volunteering but they are confirmed now. It's inherently selfish - I'm doing it to benefit me but ultimately I'm shooting myself in the foot. And that goes for anyone taking up WPPs or any other work for nothing. Where I am there are around 50 volunteers compared to 5 well paid staff (it's not WPP). They say they have no money (I've heard that nearly five times a day since I started). If they had no volunteers working for nothing they'd have to take pay cuts and employ another member of staff or do the work themselves. Ultimately however, volunteers and WPPs keep certain people on a nice wage, others on nothing and leads to zero job creation. Anti-competitive and anti-jobs. The whole thing sickens me, and I will probably give it up. If all my dreams came true everyone else in the country working for nothing would do the same. But we're all too selfish and many are too blind to see the counter productive nature of this activity.

Mr Benevolent

I've just been accepted for a WPP2 HR position. I haven't worked for 10 months and desperately need to get out of the career rut I was in (low paid callcentre work). Fortunately I live at home and €40 - €60 per week for fares, lunch etc isn't excessive for me. To be blunt, this position is a fantastic opportunity for me to get skills and experience in an area I've always wanted to get into. A couple of certificates in training and HR after this and I'll be well on my way to a good job. I admit there's a lot of hard work ahead for me, but it will hopefully be worth it.

AARRRRGH

Confab wrote: »

I've just been accepted for a WPP2 HR position. I haven't worked for 10 months and desperately need to get out of the career rut I was in (low paid callcentre work). Fortunately I live at home and €40 - €60 per week for fares, lunch etc isn't excessive for me. To be blunt, this position is a fantastic opportunity for me to get skills and experience in an area I've always wanted to get into. A couple of certificates in training and HR after this and I'll be well on my way to a good job. I admit there's a lot of hard work ahead for me, but it will hopefully be worth it.

Now thats fukin ironic.
You get paid nothing to make sure all the other staff are underpaid

Lenny

Just had a quick scan through this topic..
I had applied to a job a few weeks ago(had 2 interviews, its not your standard office job, decent paid)
there was 2 positions going.. I had just recieved a phone call.. informing me that I was unsuccessful for both psoitions, BUT they could offer me a WPP position, this baffles me a bit, they said I was unsuccessful because there was other people who had better experience in the field than myself. The distance to the job would be 80Kms everyday,
so I am going to be using a bit more petrol(curretly use 30-40PW) is there any sort of allounce I could get. ie that fas does?
By tkaing up this job will it save me using up my JB stamps?
AM I allowed to request that I work 25 hours in the sompany and not a full week?

28064212

Lenny wrote: »

so I am going to be using a bit more petrol(curretly use 30-40PW) is there any sort of allounce I could get. ie that fas does?

Not that I'm aware of. It may be worth asking Fás, but I doubt it

Lenny wrote: »

By tkaing up this job will it save me using up my JB stamps?

No, you're still on JB while on the WPP, it doesn't affect it

Lenny wrote: »

AM I allowed to request that I work 25 hours in the sompany and not a full week?

You can request it, but if the company says no, you can't take it any further. You either accept their terms or you don't get the position

Lenny

Thanks for that 28064212
I rang fas there alright myself.
Not entitled to anything extra, the girl was nice & plesent on the phone
she did warn me though, that if I started this experance for say.. 9 months, and if I only have 3 months left on my stamps. my payment will just stop after 3 mponths and then its up the social to deciede what to pay me(means tested etc.)
last time I was means tested 8 years ago(i was 18/19) I was only getting 80e per week, but was short lived got a job 2 weeks later)
Also, seeing as I'm not on the dole for 6 months yet, I am not able to get my payments into my bank account. So if I take this placement I assume I will get paid into the bank?

Lenny

28064212

Lenny wrote: »

last time I was means tested 8 years ago(i was 18/19) I was only getting 80e per week, but was short lived got a job 2 weeks later)

Were you living with your parents? If so, you were probably tested against their incomes as well, that won't be the case this time

Lenny wrote: »

Also, seeing as I'm not on the dole for 6 months yet, I am not able to get my payments into my bank account. So if I take this placement I assume I will get paid into the bank?

You will be able to get it paid into your bank account, but it doesn't happen automatically, you have to inform the welfare office that you're on the WPP and ask for it to be done

danman

Fair play to you Lenny.
I really hope it goes well for you.

Lenny

28064212 wrote: »

Were you living with your parents? If so, you were probably tested against their incomes as well, that won't be the case this timeYou will be able to get it paid into your bank account, but it doesn't happen automatically, you have to inform the welfare office that you're on the WPP and ask for it to be done

Yep, and I still am, under pressure to move out with the gf at the mo. and by starting this wpp I haven't a hope in hell of being able to pay for a place.. to think eh, this time last year I was looking at buying a place and had the deposit ready!
not gonna get approved for years now! lol

Lenny

Just another quick qestion, if I start this scheme.. am I able to start work part time elsewhere So I could do the WPP & earn a little more elsewhere?

28064212

Lenny wrote: »

Just another quick qestion, if I start this scheme.. am I able to start work part time, or do self employed commision based work? So I could do the WPP & earn a little more elsewhere?

I believe so, yes, but you would have to report it to the welfare office, same as if you weren't on the scheme

Lenny

OK, went up to the fas today to register but they only see people for it between 9-1
nice working hours they have up there for people looking to do course etc.!
Due for an interview tomorrow might ask the person about the working an that, but from speakin to the girl on the phone earliler. fas have pritty much nothing to do with this at all but just advertise it, as all the payments come from the social

ryanster

Hi Blind Justice,

I checked with FAS on this and there are NOT more WPP placements than jobs in the FAS site.

It just appears that way cos jobs go up and down quickly cos they are filled faster.

The WPP ones stay up longer and some never fill (the less attractive ones we have all been talking about) so it just looks like there are more. Their head office checked for me and WPP ones account for only 6% of all advertised jobs on the site since the programme began last year.

So there you go, perception is skewed, there are way more jobs than WPP placements.

Deleted User wrote: »

wanting pay is now "an attitude" sorry your majesty

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64537072&postcount=121
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64519009&postcount=109
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64524193&postcount=112
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64399835&postcount=67
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64123656&postcount=26
These arent 4th year or college placements, and now nearly one third of all jobs on fas.ie are WPP1/2

Lets make the next generation pay for everything

maninasia

Well did you check with somebody independent also i.e. not FAS!

Demonon

ryanster wrote: »

Hi Blind Justice,

I checked with FAS on this and there are NOT more WPP placements than jobs in the FAS site.

It just appears that way cos jobs go up and down quickly cos they are filled faster.

The WPP ones stay up longer and some never fill (the less attractive ones we have all been talking about) so it just looks like there are more. Their head office checked for me and WPP ones account for only 6% of all advertised jobs on the site since the programme began last year.

So there you go, perception is skewed, there are way more jobs than WPP placements.

I find this very very difficult to believe without some google-cached statistics or something. At the moment there are 1408 wpp jobs and 2486 non-wpp jobs. That's 36% of all jobs. Anyway needless to say employers are most definitely abusing this scheme. Some very good points made earlier in the thread that there's no need for me to repeat.

28064212

Demonon wrote: »

I find this very very difficult to believe without some google-cached statistics or something. At the moment there are 1408 wpp jobs and 2486 non-wpp jobs. That's 36% of all jobs. Anyway needless to say employers are most definitely abusing this scheme. Some very good points made earlier in the thread that there's no need for me to repeat.

Except there is no proof of that at all, not even anecdotal examples on this thread. The examples given are, at best, showing employers trying to abuse the scheme. Instead, as borne out by the Fás figures, these positions end up on the site for months on end

[Deleted User]

Demonon wrote: »

I find this very very difficult to believe without some google-cached statistics or something. At the moment there are 1408 wpp jobs and 2486 non-wpp jobs. That's 36% of all jobs. Anyway needless to say employers are most definitely abusing this scheme. Some very good points made earlier in the thread that there's no need for me to repeat.

your including part time jobs.

Its actually 47% of full time jobs as of today.

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=15819_3&SERVICE=CRITERIUMTREE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_VALUE.HTM&CRITERIUM=WPP&TYPE=LTREE&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC.HTM