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FAS Work Placement Program

ThomasCreeby

In a time of deep recession I am absolutely baffled how the government can sponsor a program where by companies are paid to take on new staff, who can then work for said companies for periods of up to 12 months while receiving only their dole as compensation for working the guts of a 40 hour week.
Slave labour and the reduction of the minimum wage is already here and its called the FAS Work Placement Program.
I'm 24 years old and I've been unemployed for over a year and frankly I find it disgusting. I'm really sick of logging onto the FAS website and finding that 90% of the jobs they now advertise are WPP schemes.
What I find even more insidious however is that a person can have their Jobseekers Allowance cut if they are not prepared to be forced by the government to work for less than the minimum wage???
This is the type of "innovation" is emblematic of the Irish Government's attitude towards young people trying to find work.
How many of the companies who have signed up for cheap labour are actually that poorly off that they aren't arsed paying a receptionist or an admin?
The whole WPP stinks to high heaven of incompetence and wasted money, not to mention offering zero financial incentive to get people back to work.
Does anyone else think this entire scheme is comically inept at trying to achieve what it set out to or am I alone in thinking its a pile of b*%$cks?

Cheers Boards,

Thomas

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katkin

28064212 wrote: »

There are no jobs, so Fás put together a scheme to give people who didn't have experience a chance to get some. If you have some kind of solution to the jobs crisis, I'm sure Fás would love to hear it, but in the meantime, this is a practical program to increase job-seekers' employability for when there are jobs.

Well for a start why don't they scrap the WPPs and instead offer to keep providing social welfare to recipients who take up employment with businesses of any kind as long as the payment is matched by the employer. The scheme could be for one year minimum. If they are kept after that they might keep the subsidy for a total of two years, after which it is halved and hopefully the employer might be in a better position to keep them on and pay full wage. At least that's some incentive to employ people and provides people with a wage, which however small they would pay a little tax on and hopefully more in the future. The govt still has dole bill but they do anyway.

Whatever they come up with it has to be better than an anti-jobs incentive for employers to get free workers.

28064212

katkin wrote: »

Well for a start why don't they scrap the WPPs and instead offer to keep providing social welfare to recipients who take up employment with businesses of any kind as long as the payment is matched by the employer. The scheme could be for one year minimum. If they are kept after that they might keep the subsidy for a total of two years, after which it is halved and hopefully the employer might be in a better position to keep them on and pay full wage. At least that's some incentive to employ people and provides people with a wage, which however small they would pay a little tax on and hopefully more in the future. The govt still has dole bill but they do anyway.

Whatever they come up with it has to be better than an anti-jobs incentive for employers to get free workers.

Well for a start, many companies simply can't afford to take on a worker, even at €11,000 a year. And even if they can afford it, they will more likely save the money and just spread the work among their existing employees. And even if they don't do that, it will encourage them to let go employees so they can replace them with workers from this scheme.

And even if all that wasn't true, it wouldn't matter a jot to the people who actually need experience. All jobs created from a scheme like that would be taken up by people with experience, because (from their point of view) twice the dole is better than just the dole, and (from the companies' point of view) they get a fully trained worker ready to go with no training needed. The only way for the WPP scheme to actually work for people with no experience is to make it completely unattractive for experienced people

28064212

mickeyk wrote: »

I was speaking in theoretical terms here:

thought that would be clear if you read the whole post, I am not trying to prove that experienced people are taking the jobs up, nor do I believe they are.

K, sounds like we're in agreement so. Some companies are trying to abuse the scheme, but it's extremely unlikely that they will actually succeed.

katkin

28064212 wrote: »

Well for a start, many companies simply can't afford to take on a worker, even at €11,000 a year. And even if they can afford it, they will more likely save the money and just spread the work among their existing employees. And even if they don't do that, it will encourage them to let go employees so they can replace them with workers from this scheme.

And even if all that wasn't true, it wouldn't matter a jot to the people who actually need experience. All jobs created from a scheme like that would be taken up by people with experience, because (from their point of view) twice the dole is better than just the dole, and (from the companies' point of view) they get a fully trained worker ready to go with no training needed. The only way for the WPP scheme to actually work for people with no experience is to make it completely unattractive for experienced people

Fair enough, I shouldn't have really tried to come up with something because I have neither the skills nor the resources, however I would imagine FAS and the DETE should have.

Just a question, how did you gain experience to get into your line of work. Did you work your way up like most people, perhaps even offered to work for nothing for a while, did you benefit from an internship or work placement through college. I know I used some of these routes. So why are they not ok now. Why the need for this scheme? I think there is no need for it. One of the reasons it bugs me is the danger that it may result in employers chosing this route instead of taking on paid employees. It bugs me also because it helps the government appear to be engaged with the issue of unemployment when they are really too busy protecting those they have always protected.

28064212

katkin wrote: »

Just a question, how did you gain experience to get into your line of work. Did you work your way up like most people, perhaps even offered to work for nothing for a while, did you benefit from an internship or work placement through college. I know I used some of these routes. So why are they not ok now. Why the need for this scheme? I think there is no need for it. One of the reasons it bugs me is the danger that it may result in employers chosing this route instead of taking on paid employees.

The need for this scheme is that work placements and internships are for the privileged who can afford to take a year off with absolutely no income. I know there is no way I could afford to have that amount of time off to gain experience, no matter how important it is. Especially with the possibility of a loan gone out the window with the recession. At least the WPP lets me keep the dole while on a placement. It's not great, but it's better than nothing. Also, all those routes are still available to the people who can use them, the WPP hasn't replaced them

katkin wrote: »

It bugs me also because it helps the government appear to be engaged with the issue of unemployment when they are really too busy protecting those they have always protected.

That's not true at all, if anything it makes the statistics look worse than they are. People on the WPP are still unemployed, they still show up on the Live Register figures

[Deleted User]

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=10956_16&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=55&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

Area of Activity: ECCO Shoes, Retail Sales Consultant. Handling cash, stockroom duties, administration duties, selling shoes.

Ecco shoes are hoping to take on 4 people to work in their shops for free on the non graduate internship. You dont need much experience to work in a shoe shop to be fair. How will this help our economy?
How this wont increase unemployment I dont know

97i9y3941

i know some people say the experience will be rewarding,but would there be a case for a company's profile and reputation,you be passed over by someone whose a graduate?...

__________

Deleted User wrote: »

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=10956_16&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=55&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

Area of Activity: ECCO Shoes, Retail Sales Consultant. Handling cash, stockroom duties, administration duties, selling shoes.

Ecco shoes are hoping to take on 4 people to work in their shops for free on the non graduate internship. You dont need much experience to work in a shoe shop to be fair. How will this help our economy?
How this wont increase unemployment I dont know

Where does it say they are looking for 4 people? Even still though, that kinda sh1t needs to be stopped. Although nothing will probably be done, I'm reporting that ad to fas.

97i9y3941

think better reporting it to one of the national papers,best of luck anyway fair play to you for doing it..

Stark

Deleted User wrote: »

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=10956_16&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=55&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

Area of Activity: ECCO Shoes, Retail Sales Consultant. Handling cash, stockroom duties, administration duties, selling shoes.

Ecco shoes are hoping to take on 4 people to work in their shops for free on the non graduate internship. You dont need much experience to work in a shoe shop to be fair. How will this help our economy?
How this wont increase unemployment I dont know

**** like that represents a backdoor donation straight to Ecco. I'd be fairly certain that if the WPP program wasn't in place, Ecco would still be in a position to hire people and we could have 4 people off the dole or at the very least 4 students with a bit of extra cash to spend in the economy.

[Deleted User]

__________ wrote: »

Where does it say they are looking for 4 people? Even still though, that kinda sh1t needs to be stopped. Although nothing will probably be done, I'm reporting that ad to fas.

sorry i got it wrong they have 6 places not 4!!!!

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=19944_3&REQUEST=WWW_JS_VAC_SHOWJOBS&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_SELECT.HTM

40% of the full time jobs goin on fas are WPP1 or WPP2 now..... Im tracking the numbers and taking screen shots. Any dodgy ads I see now are gettin a screen capture too

billybigunz

Stark wrote: »

**** like that represents a backdoor donation straight to Ecco. I'd be fairly certain that if the WPP program wasn't in place, Ecco would still be in a position to hire people and we could have 4 people off the dole or at the very least 4 students with a bit of extra cash to spend in the economy.

This **** really needs somebody in the media to do a devastating expose. Secretly record interviews, go over company financial records. It is sick beyond belief.

katkin

billybigunz wrote: »

This **** really needs somebody in the media to do a devastating expose. Secretly record interviews, go over company financial records. It is sick beyond belief.

Wouldn't you wonder why they haven't already, how long has this scheme been in place, why have we no statistics on it, why are they just happy to print off press releases about WPP from Govt depts, no looking into it. We really have no media to speak of.

donkey balls

this another one http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=23985_4&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=55&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

there is a guy over on the work&jobs forum who is a producer for prime time im surprised he has not looked at the tread that was started there must be about 10 pages long know.

billybigunz

40.+ Canteen/Cleaning Assistant - (WPP2) 30 Limerick City JB538647
Area of Activity: Canteen Assistant - facilities for staff/ordering supplies and maintenance of canteen. Light cleaning duties. Elements of Experience Offered: Communication skills. Ordering supplies and accountability. Maintenance of staff canteen. Pride in work. Linking with visitors. Pastoral care of students. Person Specification: Canteen/cleaning assistant. Motivated. Flexible. Excellent communication skills. Excellent organisational skills. Applicants must supply suitable character references and be prepared to complete a Garda vetting application form.

OMG

[Deleted User]

Checkout staff - Please send your CV to James Masterson, Supervalu Ballinamore, Main Street, Ballinamore, Co. Leitrim
Jobseeker - Contents Vacancy

Floor Staff
Jobseeker - Contents Vacancy

The list goes on:
Jobseeker - Contents Vacancy

Jobseeker - Contents Vacancy

[Deleted User]

All while the lads in Anglo get pay rises

Stark

Shelf stackers in Supervalu. Wow, just wow. Given the size of the country's social welfare bill, this is potentially very serious.

97i9y3941

billybigunz wrote: »

This **** really needs somebody in the media to do a devastating expose. Secretly record interviews, go over company financial records. It is sick beyond belief.

there is a prime time team member on boards,hopefully they see this thread...

donkey balls

Fred83 wrote: »

there is a prime time team member on boards,hopefully they see this thread...

this is the guy that got in contact with people on the work/jobs forum about working for the min wage going drop him a mail with a link to this thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055811243

[Deleted User]

Driver - HGV/ C Licence Licence - WPP2

Description:
Area of activity: Required for our Dublin based office. Pick up and delivery department. Elements of experience offered: You will gain a geographical knowledge of the City of Dublin and also the day to day activities of a truck/ commercial vehicles franchise. Person specification: We need someone who is experienced in driving buses, vans and HGV vehicles in order to pick up and deliver to clients. Full clean HGV licence required.

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=9877_15&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=2&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

Taxipete29

Deleted User wrote: »

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=9877_15&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=2&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

As was said above, what person with that experience is going to do this??

This is an obvious scam to get free labour and not what the WPP was intended to do. I still believe in esscence its still a good programme, however those employers using the programme need to be monitored so that positions like above are not eligible.

The_Honeybadger

Taxipete29 wrote: »

As was said above, what person with that experience is going to do this??

This is an obvious scam to get free labour and not what the WPP was intended to do. I still believe in esscence its still a good programme, however those employers using the programme need to be monitored so that positions like above are not eligible.

I would be willing to bet that if somebody took on this job that they would get cash under the table at the end of the week, a clear attempt to abuse the scheme and defraud the taxpayer, FAS should not allow ads like this to be placed on their site. Nobody with that type of experience could possibly benefit from this position as it was intended, maybe if they were willing to train somebody with a regular B licence and pay for their lessons / test you could make a case for it.

97i9y3941

its clever as well,the wpp was meant to give you experience everywhere,but of course it barred you from the public sector :rolleyes:

donkey balls

mickeyk wrote: »

I would be willing to bet that if somebody took on this job that they would get cash under the table at the end of the week, a clear attempt to abuse the scheme and defraud the taxpayer, FAS should not allow ads like this to be placed on their site. Nobody with that type of experience could possibly benefit from this position as it was intended, maybe if they were willing to train somebody with a regular B licence and pay for their lessons / test you could make a case for it.

the company that advertised that job is the biggest dealer of Scania trucks&buses in Ireland,their customers would include Bus Eireann
/Superquinn ESB and a load more bus&trucking companies.
they also service the vehicles for the DOE test(nct test for trucks done once a year)

AARRRRGH

Ive just looked at the jobs again.

OMFG - The minimum wage in Ireland has just become €0.00 /hr

Major, major scandal there.

toughbuttfair

Great news for our competitiveness. Now we can compete with China, India, and Vietnam. Labour costs haven't been this cheap in the western world since 1865 (parts of Amsterdam excepted). Who knows? We might even get those Dell jobs back.

[Deleted User]

toughbuttfair wrote: »

Great news for our competitiveness. Now we can compete with China, India, and Vietnam. Labour costs haven't been this cheap in the western world since 1865 (parts of Amsterdam excepted). Who knows? We might even get those Dell jobs back.

ah but we still need to tackle high insurance, high rents, rates and electricity costs! Suppose its easier to reduce graduates pay to 0.00 euro an hour rather than reduce the pay of the legal sector, have landlords reduce rents or introduce real competition into the electricity market

Stark

billybigunz wrote: »

This **** really needs somebody in the media to do a devastating expose. Secretly record interviews, go over company financial records. It is sick beyond belief.

Financial health of the company should be irrelevant. As a friend of mine said, if you start subsidizing unprofitable companies with free government labour, then that's a distortion of the market. If the unprofitable Supervalu starts having its workers provided for by the state, then it will be in a position to drastically undercut the profitable Tesco next door and drive it out of business. Result: even more job losses.

__________

Something like this should be done in the public sector, where the state would actually save money rather than some private business like a supermarket or shoeshop.

But that probably makes too much sense for this government to go ahead with it.