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WPP1 / WPP2

kkelly77

Hello all,

I see a lot of jobs advertised on FAS on the Work Placement Programme (WPP).

Has anyone been offered a job under this scheme? Are you still paid whatever you were receiving on the social welfare while working in that particular area?

K

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Guell72

mood wrote: »

We should have a name and shame thread!

Im not going to name my employer now. I might if I no longer work for them though

maninasia

Raekwon wrote: »

Yeah that's an excellent idea. Unfortunately the words "excellent idea" and "FAS" will never share the same sentence.

A similar scheme was used to pretty good effect in Taiwan (economy has recovered already so not neccessary now for younger people/new grads, however it is in operation to encourage employers to employ older people) and probably other countries such as Germany etc.

billybigunz

Guell72 wrote: »

I found out today that my company was contacted and asked to re-word their ads. By re-word i mean to hide the fact that they require experienced workers in the ads and leave asking for experience until they call people for interview. They were not asked to take them down or to not abuse the system.

Get those email records and you could take down this scheme. That is scandalous.

28064212

Guell72 wrote: »

I found out today that my company was contacted and asked to re-word their ads. By re-word i mean to hide the fact that they require experienced workers in the ads and leave asking for experience until they call people for interview. They were not asked to take them down or to not abuse the system.

And by "by re-word I mean" you mean that's what you took it to mean. Even though if the ad says no experience required, how many people with experience do you think are going to apply?

Guell72

28064212 wrote: »

And by "by re-word I mean" you mean that's what you took it to mean. Even though if the ad says no experience required, how many people with experience do you think are going to apply?

Editing post ... Probably best to remove what i posted here.

Guell72

billybigunz wrote: »

Get those email records and you could take down this scheme. That is scandalous.

Im told it was a phone call.

[Deleted User]

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64910258&postcount=31
^^^ Some craic

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=10575_18&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=23&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

AARRRGH

Deleted User wrote: »

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64910258&postcount=31
^^^ Some craic

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=10575_18&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=23&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

That's messed up alright.

Typical Ireland, we don't enforce regulation so it's not long before people are taking the piss.

Frenzy

sarahzxe wrote: »

Hey does anybody know wat the story is with signing on if u take one these placements do ustill have 2 sign on every month??? And how exactly do u collect ur dole from post office if ur working fulltime do they put in2 ur bank account?

I've been working under the WPP1 scheme for the last month. You need to go to the social welfare office and tell them you're on the scheme and ask to transfer you payments to your account. If you're work placement is outside your social welfare offices area they will transfer it to your account but if not they might move your post office. Totally depends on who you talk to.

Also ask to be put you on the 'sign on by post' scheme. I had to go in 4 times and filled out the same forms every time so be prepared for a good bit of hassle. My social welfare office didn't have a clue what to do when I said I was on the WPP1 obviously not many people partaking in my area.

If you have a medical card you may be entitled to get travel expenses as you are not getting paid.

mood

Frenzy wrote: »

I've been working under the WPP1 scheme for the last month. You need to go to the social welfare office and tell them you're on the scheme and ask to transfer you payments to your account. If you're work placement is outside your social welfare offices area they will transfer it to your account but if not they might move your post office. Totally depends on who you talk to.

Also ask to be put you on the 'sign on by post' scheme. I had to go in 4 times and filled out the same forms every time so be prepared for a good bit of hassle. My social welfare office didn't have a clue what to do when I said I was on the WPP1 obviously not many people partaking in my area.

If you have a medical card you may be entitled to get travel expenses as you are not getting paid.

How are you finding the placement?

Frenzy

Yeah its going really well. It's a really great office to have on my CV and I don't feel like I'm being used (architectural graduate intern positions are the norm in most european countries so its just a culture that ireland will have to get used to) Its a small office and we're working on (if goes ahead) a great project but obviously I would prefer to get a bit more money so I could afford to move out. If work picks up (depending on projects going ahead) I'll be in a good position to be employed full time but at the moment nobody knows.

It wasn't a position advertised on the FAS site. I applied directly to architect's offices and gave them information on the scheme to give them another option if they wanted to employ me as I really need experience to get my professional qualifications and currently there really is no other way of doing it.

lukin

I haven't the time to read the whole of this thread so apologies if this has been answered already: I see a lot of the WPP1 schemes are short-term (6 months, 9 months). Does this mean these are contract positions?
Surely this is grossly unfair as if I am offered a job with a salary while working for nothing, I can't take the job?
I know little about the scheme but there should be something to prevent companies who use it from making you sign a contract (maybe there is already).

mood

lukin wrote: »

I haven't the time to read the whole of this thread so apologies if this has been answered already: I see a lot of the WPP1 schemes are short-term (6 months, 9 months). Does this mean these are contract positions?
Surely this is grossly unfair as if I am offered a job with a salary while working for nothing, I can't take the job?
I know little about the scheme but there should be something to prevent companies who use it from making you sign a contract (maybe there is already).

I assume you can leave when ever you wish if offered a job or whatever. It's not like the company are paying you or anything! But maybe someone who actually did or is doing a WPP can tell us for sure.

eclectichoney

mood wrote: »

I assume you can leave when ever you wish if offered a job or whatever. It's not like the company are paying you or anything! But maybe someone who actually did or is doing a WPP can tell us for sure.

Yes - Fás are only too delighted if you find a job before the placement is up!

lukin

eclectichoney wrote: »

Yes - Fás are only too delighted if you find a job before the placement is up!

That's a relief. One other thing, I have applied for a WPP1 job and been called for an interview but I am actually still employed. I will be finished for sure in three weeks but my boss has told me I can leave straight away if a pemanent job comes up soemwhere else.
What happens if I am offered the job?If I hand in my notice straight away will I be OK?Can the employer find out from FAS that I am still working?

mood

lukin wrote: »

That's a relief. One other thing, I have applied for a WPP1 job and been called for an interview but I am actually still employed. I will be finished for sure in three weeks but my boss has told me I can leave straight away if a pemanent job comes up soemwhere else.
What happens if I am offered the job?If I hand in my notice straight away will I be OK?Can the employer find out from FAS that I am still working?

As far as I know if you leave a job of your own accord you don't get the dole for about 6 weeks so it's not a good idea to leave you current job early. What would you live on? I also thought you had to be unemployed 3 or 6 months to even be able to apply for a WPP!

Also you need to stop thinking of it as a job because it isn't. On a WPP you get paid your dole and possibly rent allowance but nothing else. I would also get it in writing that the company will give you a proper reference after the WPP is completed.

lukin

mood wrote: »

As far as I know if you leave a job of your own accord you don't get the dole for about 6 weeks so it's not a good idea to leave you current job early.

Ive only got a few weeks left in my current job so if it's a choice between
working for a few weeks and then having nothing or leaving early and having experience but dole then it's an easy choice. I think I can persuade my employer to say he let me go rather than I left as they don't really need me anymore, my work there is pretty much done.

mood wrote: »

What would you live on? I also thought you had to be unemployed 3 or 6 months to even be able to apply for a WPP!

from the FAS website:
Anyone who is unemployed is eligible to apply for the Work Placement Programme.

If you are a graduate with a level 7 qualification you can apply for both the graduate placements (WPP1) and the non-graduate placements (WPP2). Otherwise, you can apply for all non-graduate placements (WPP2).

mood wrote: »

Also you need to stop thinking of it as a job because it isn't. On a WPP you get paid your dole and possibly rent allowance but nothing else. I would also get it in writing that the company will give you a proper reference after the WPP is completed.

That's a good idea but I would hope at the end of my placement they would keep me on (and pay me obviously). It's an IT job, sorry placement, so at worst the experience will help me get a paid job.

oppiuy

I have post this in a different thread but i think its an example of abuse that this thread is talking about

OK so update on this situation.

In a different department 23 people have been made redundant until July and 23 Fas "workers" have been brought into our department for "training".

And we have been asked to take an hour cut of 2.5 per week while these guys are here. Met management and the union on Friday who said it had been accepted without consultation with any worker.

I pressed them on 2 things. why let these folk go when they could have moved departments?
why are we still taking these people in who are effectively working. Union basically laughed and said its just giving others an opportunity. And they weren't effecting hours, pay or productivity.

I asked what happens next if some people don't agree to the hour reductions and my reply was that they weren't sure but that it would probably happen anyway. Ive refused and I'm happy to push them as far as i can on this. I know from other threads and links to the citizens info page that they can make my position redundant, at this stage i cant really afford for that to happen but would be prepared to meet that end as i think i need to make a stand somewhere.

What im really looking for is maybe some advise on what to do next. I will be handing in the forms of acceptance tomorrow and will make sure they understand that i have not accepted the change and why.
I think i will probably need to clarify these reasons and make it clear they cannot change my terms of employment without my consent..

What do you think i should do or say.

billybigunz

oppiuy wrote: »

I have post this in a different thread but i think its an example of abuse that this thread is talking about

OK so update on this situation.

In a different department 23 people have been made redundant until July and 23 Fas "workers" have been brought into our department for "training".

And we have been asked to take an hour cut of 2.5 per week while these guys are here. Met management and the union on Friday who said it had been accepted without consultation with any worker.

I pressed them on 2 things. why let these folk go when they could have moved departments?
why are we still taking these people in who are effectively working. Union basically laughed and said its just giving others an opportunity. And they weren't effecting hours, pay or productivity.

I asked what happens next if some people don't agree to the hour reductions and my reply was that they weren't sure but that it would probably happen anyway. Ive refused and I'm happy to push them as far as i can on this. I know from other threads and links to the citizens info page that they can make my position redundant, at this stage i cant really afford for that to happen but would be prepared to meet that end as i think i need to make a stand somewhere.

What im really looking for is maybe some advise on what to do next. I will be handing in the forms of acceptance tomorrow and will make sure they understand that i have not accepted the change and why.
I think i will probably need to clarify these reasons and make it clear they cannot change my terms of employment without my consent..

What do you think i should do or say.

Make it political. Get some FG or labour politician who would take on your cause. Your employer would back than fairly quick I reckon if it was making any kind of news.

[Deleted User]

billybigunz wrote: »

Make it political. Get some FG or labour politician who would take on your cause. Your employer would back than fairly quick I reckon if it was making any kind of news.

Alert the media that workers are being laid off to be replaced by this Fas scheme work for free crap. Do it now:

joe@rte.ie (Joe Duffy)
drivetime@rte.ie

morningireland@rte.ie

lastword@todayfm.com

therighthook@newstalk.ie

here is a list of politicians:
http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14604&hilit=blitzkrieg
Do contact some opposition members even possibly some FF or Green backbenchers. This could be brought up in the Dail.

Do it for all of us dude! :mad:

28064212

Report it to Fás. Be persistent, since I have no doubt the lower levels will try and fob you off. Fás have the power to end the company's right to participate in the WPP, meaning the instant end of their right to the employees. Also, try and get in touch with any of the dismissed workers, and have them consult a solicitor, they would have a strong case for unfair dismissal

Little My

Just found this on Fas site... do a work placement for free, gain vital experience.....????

http://jobbank.fas.ie/servlet/Watis?SESS=9680_6&SERVICE=CRITERIUMBROWSE&TEMPLATE=WWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_BROWSE.HTM&ROW=17&BACK=TEMPLATE%3DWWW_JS_VAC_CRITERIUM_OVERVIEW.HTM

Washroom Technician- WPP2
Job Reference: JB530883

Description:
Area of activity: The role would involve the servicing of our washroom customers in the Connaught area - Galway county and city mostly.

Elements of experience offered:

1. The servicing of sanitary bins, air freshener units, sanitizers, toilet seat sanitizers, vending machines and additional washroom products.

2. Site set ups which include the installation of sanitary bins, air freshener units, sanitizers, toilet seat sanitizers, vending machines, toilet roll holders, hand towel holders and additional washroom products.

3. Small deliveries to customers when required. Person specification: Full clean driving licence. Excellent communication skills. Fluent English. Excellent interpersonal skills.

AnnyHallsal

For God's sake. I can't see the media touching this, though. After the Bill Cullen appearance on Frontline it seemed like many working people have little sympathy with those on the dole - one of the Boards threads was quite nasty. I can see people saying, so what, it's better than sitting on your ar$e, why aren't you out with a mop and bucket, let them work for free etc etc..

It is potentially damaging the economy. If those companies genuinely can't afford to pay someone 8.65 an hour is one thing, but many of us are rightfully suspicious.

lukin

AnnyHallsal wrote: »

For God's sake. I can't see the media touching this, though. After the Bill Cullen appearance on Frontline it seemed like many working people have little sympathy with those on the dole - one of the Boards threads was quite nasty. I can see people saying, so what, it's better than sitting on your ar$e, why aren't you out with a mop and bucket, let them work for free etc etc..

It is potentially damaging the economy. If those companies genuinely can't afford to pay someone 8.65 an hour is one thing, but many of us are rightfully suspicious.

It's not a case of being sympathetic or not to people on the dole. It's a case of false advertising. Since the conditions of WPP1 was changed the FAS site has gone to pot. Every single job on there is WPP1, I don't object to that but there are a lot fo cowboys putting jobs on there now. I knew it was too good to be true when I saw 30 IT jobs for Cork & Kery returned by a search.
A lot of them are just plain p***-artists. i got badly stung myself there yesterday. FAS are obviuosly not doing any vetting of companies that put ads on there. It's just a case of "come on here stick on a job". The job details are misleading or in some cases completley false. It's a disgrace that a Government agency can be allowed to do this. To be honest I am looking into working voluntary for a charity instead, at least I can find out myself what I am getting into.

AnnyHallsal

lukin wrote: »

It's not a case of being sympathetic or not to people on the dole.

My point is why are the media not covering it but making a hooha about the passports office?

a) Don't want to pi$$ off fas
b) Don't want to pi$$ off the powers that be
c) Don't think the public will be interested
d) Don't think it's much of an issue.

I'm of the opinion that the first three are all a factor. They certainly know about it.

eth0_

lukin wrote: »

That's a relief. One other thing, I have applied for a WPP1 job and been called for an interview but I am actually still employed. I will be finished for sure in three weeks but my boss has told me I can leave straight away if a pemanent job comes up soemwhere else.
What happens if I am offered the job?If I hand in my notice straight away will I be OK?Can the employer find out from FAS that I am still working?

I'm going to be blunt - this is pretty low of you. WPP is for people who are unemployed and in need of training and a foot in the door. You are NOT unemployed and therefore you are not eligible for WPP. You will be found out if the employer offers you the "job", because they have to OK it with the social welfare office and they will immediately see you are not registered unemployed.

lukin

eth0_ wrote: »

I'm going to be blunt - this is pretty low of you. WPP is for people who are unemployed and in need of training and a foot in the door. You are NOT unemployed and therefore you are not eligible for WPP. You will be found out if the employer offers you the "job", because they have to OK it with the social welfare office and they will immediately see you are not registered unemployed.

Yes I admit I was wrong there but it was really the dread of the dole that made me do it. As it turned out the "job "was a bit of a joke as the employer said stuff in the job spec and interview that turned out to be bs.
I was wrong to do what I did but a lot of employers are taking the p*** with this WPP thing.

saol alainn

I think the gist of the WPP idea is good, but I don't think it was thought out properly. I mean, 6/9 months at 40 hours per week is too much. Considering it won't cost the employer a penny, it should be set at a strict maximum of 25/30 hours. At least then the 'employee' can have some time to job-hunt, and not feel as if they're being abused. And jobs like the one about cleaning toilets and such should be a strict no-no. Not that the work itself is not commendable, but what, exactly, is the point of gaining experience in such work?

These jobs would also be a good way to get people, especially women, like myself working again. Those of us who, for one reason or another, hadn't been able to work full-time, or regularly, these past few years find we're entitled to nothing, except credits. We can apply, of course, and it won't cost anyone anything - except ourselves if the place is out of town, or have to pay for childcare. I don't think we'd mind doing a couple of months for absolutely nothing, but 9 months?

28064212

saol alainn wrote: »

I mean, 6/9 months at 40 hours per week is too much. Considering it won't cost the employer a penny, it should be set at a strict maximum of 25/30 hours. At least then the 'employee' can have some time to job-hunt, and not feel as if they're being abused.

There's plenty of time to job-hunt even if you are working a 40-hour week. Especially since the companies are required to give you time off for any interviews you have

saol alainn wrote: »

I don't think we'd mind doing a couple of months for absolutely nothing, but 9 months?

So leave after however many months you want. There is no commitment on your part in the WPP. There's no period of notice, the company can't prevent you from leaving. Obviously it's better to be up-front about your intentions from the start if you want a good reference or the potential for a future full-time position with them, but while you don't have the rights of an employee, you also have none of the responsibilites

AnnyHallsal

The heart of the matter is: why would any employer pay new staff when they can get highly experienced people free through WPP schemes?

Any ad that states experience is required is flouting the purpose of the scheme. Ads posted here prove that the system is being abused. And businesses are using it to get low-skilled/non-skilled labour for free.

This is detrimental to the economy if it is inhibiting the creation of paid employment.

If positions were going to people with no experience and were being offered by companies that genuinely could not pay a new employee, it would be beneficial to both. At present, it is ludicrously exposed to exploitation.

There is the basis of a significant piece of investigative journalism here.