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How do humans differ from other species?

paky

How do humans differ from other species other than our physical characteristics? Are we a super natural species? What defines us?

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Gary L

Excellent question. In terms of mental traits I would say what makes us special is the capacity for self awareness. It's not an innate sense though. Abstract thinking maybe.

paky

Im not religious or anything but Im seriously considering that there is a purpose for human beings on this planet...that maybe there is a god or maybe something has intended us on being here.

Gary L

I think to believe that is to deny your incredible freedom. For all we can tell, we are the pinnacle of existence. Why grasp for a master?

paky

i cant argue with that

WindSock

paky wrote: »

Im not religious or anything but Im seriously considering that there is a purpose for human beings on this planet...that maybe there is a god or maybe something has intended us on being here.

I would say this is one big aspect of us differing from other species, the idea of worship and superstition. Also imagination and creativity.

LilOc

What do you guys make of the fact that scientists have spoken of classifying dolphins as "non-human persons"?

...

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/02/is-a-dolphin-a-person.html

Glenster

LilOc wrote: »

What do you guys make of the fact that scientists have spoken of classifying dolphins as "non-human persons"?

Scientists really like making the evening news.

Gary L

LilOc wrote: »

What do you guys make of the fact that scientists have spoken of classifying dolphins as "non-human persons"?

...

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/02/is-a-dolphin-a-person.html

There are some ideas that people today are not ready for. Dolphins are intelligent, individual, thoughtful, linguistic, environmentally aware, capable of self recognition, capable of complex social development. That hardly means we should consider them equal to us in all our magnificence does it?

SmellyBumFace

paky wrote: »

How do humans differ from other species other than our physical characteristics? Are we a super natural species? What defines us?

Why do you think we are super natural? Whats so good about us?

All we do day after day is kill eachother, hate eachother etc, murder, divorce. Fair enough, we kill other species so we can see whats inside them. We look up at the stars.
But just because we can think about our surroundings and our past and future,doesn't make us anything other then animals, with a higher brain capacity then other animals in our planet.

We read papers and look at the news JUST so we have something to talk about. Usually its about death, and bad things that happen to other people.

Like those natural disasters (earthquakes etc). people seem to like talking about it, and other like to profit from it.

Also, all we want to do is take more.
We build one thing, knock down ten things, and then build another.
We rape and pillage the planet we've been given. There's already over 6 billion of us, we're spreading, and eating and destroying everything around us. we're like a virus.

Not supernatural beings.

Woow_Aqualung

SmellyBumFace wrote: »

Why do you think we are super natural? Whats so good about us?

All we do day after day is kill eachother, hate eachother etc, murder, divorce. Fair enough, we kill other species so we can see whats inside them. We look up at the stars.
But just because we can think about our surroundings and our past and future,doesn't make us anything other then animals, with a higher brain capacity then other animals in our planet.

We read papers and look at the news JUST so we have something to talk about. Usually its about death, and bad things that happen to other people.

Like those natural disasters (earthquakes etc). people seem to like talking about it, and other like to profit from it.

Also, all we want to do is take more.
We build one thing, knock down ten things, and then build another.
We rape and pillage the planet we've been given. There's already over 6 billion of us, we're spreading, and eating and destroying everything around us. we're like a virus.

Not supernatural beings.

I find people who insist on saying how evil the human race is extremely infuriating.

Also, all we want to do is take more

Do you think that animals in the wild have designed their lifestyle so to have as little impact the world? All animals would like to have a constant supply of food without danger. It's just that humans are the only species with the mental capacity to obtain it. And, referring to your comment that there are to many of us

We rape and pillage the planet we've been given. There's already over 6 billion of us

, this would happen to any species if they had as much resources as us. It's not like were evil purely because we're very good at doing what we're programmed to do, pass on our genes. In a way humans aren't supernatural but "Super Natural" as in we are a paradigm of what all species aspire to be.

And the statement

we're like a virus.

is straight out of the film "The Matrix".

paky

SmellyBumFace wrote: »

Why do you think we are super natural? Whats so good about us?

All we do day after day is kill eachother, hate eachother etc, murder, divorce. Fair enough, we kill other species so we can see whats inside them. We look up at the stars.
But just because we can think about our surroundings and our past and future,doesn't make us anything other then animals, with a higher brain capacity then other animals in our planet.

We read papers and look at the news JUST so we have something to talk about. Usually its about death, and bad things that happen to other people.

Like those natural disasters (earthquakes etc). people seem to like talking about it, and other like to profit from it.

Also, all we want to do is take more.
We build one thing, knock down ten things, and then build another.
We rape and pillage the planet we've been given. There's already over 6 billion of us, we're spreading, and eating and destroying everything around us. we're like a virus.

Not supernatural beings.

I never said we were super natural. I asked are we super natural? capisce?

panda100

Super natural? No I dont think we are. We just have better evolved parts of our brains than other animals.

Cannibal Ox

I think there are problems with the question. If you ask what defines us, you're asking what strictly differentiates us from other species. I'm not a big city biologist, but I'd suggest that we share some basic characteristics with varieties of species. We need food, water, air, we reproduce, we have a capacity to be social beings, and we communicate. We share these basic functions with many other species, (some of) these basic functions are what allows us to live. I think the strict distinction that we try to answer in that question, is probably a more interesting question, that is, why do we look for a strict distinction between us and other species.

So, I think it would be more interesting to ask how did we differentiate ourselves from other species, and why did we do that. I'm going to stick with the "West" here, and I'm going to generalize and possibly not be entirely accurate, but that's okay, because I'm not expecting a nobel prize for this post, just trying to play around with some ideas.

Some Pagan religions revered animals, they worshipped them, and they tried to harness their powers for human use. It isn't that they didn't make a distinction between human's and animals, they did, and it wasn't a harmonious, hippy friendly, relationship, but I think the key point (for the next part) is that they didn't turn the beast in to something wicked, something evil, something entirely seperate and beneath human beings.

Catholicism I think was different. Man becomes above all beasts, and humans start to actively differentiate themselves from the beast. Not only do they differentiate themselves from the beast, as an entirely different creature, but the beast becomes all that is evil within Man. All of our sinful impulses are beastly instincts. Particularly sex. Catholicism being obsessed with sex, and controlling sex, sex became a beastly, carnal, act that is linked to the wicked, cloven hoofed, part-man, part-animal Satan.

I think you could argue that Catholicism made a very clear and very definite distinction between Man and Beast that lasted with us at least until Darwin came along and re-esthablished that link under science.

So, why? Why did Catholicism link sin to the Beast? What was the point? What was the function? I think the Beast is what Man falls to. When Man sins He becomes the Beast, he becomes no longer Human, he looses the spark of the divine, and he falls to damnation and earthly instincts. We held up animals as the symbol of the earth, and all of it's sinful wretchedness, and the earth was not what Catholicism was seeking. Heaven was what Catholicism was seeking. Not this life, but the next. What does Man have? A soul. Does the Beast have a soul? No. Man goes to Heaven, rids himself of his mortal coil and embraces the divine, while the animal remains on the wretched earth.

We differentiated ourselves from animals because they symbolised earthly, physical life and all of its apparent horrors. Human beings were more then animals, we were more then just physical life. We had to be more then animals because all animals do is live and die, and that's it. There doesn't seem to be any point in their lives. They don't go to Heaven, they don't have a soul, and they don't erect cathedrals, paint, write philosophy, or compose music.

Hmm. I can't remember where I was going with this

I think what I'm trying to say is that we, through Catholicism, made a specific distinction between human beings and animals, for a specific reason, and that specific distinction has stayed with us, even past Darwin, and continues to manifest itself in the question, how are we distinct from animals, how are we a super-natural species, what separates us from animals. I think that question isn't the right question, because I think that question is built on the thinking of Catholicism, and assumes that there is a strict, definitive, difference. I think it's a question we need to go past, and we need to re-think what question we should be asking instead. What is the right question? I don't know :pac:

Pablo_

Cannibal Ox wrote: »

Some Pagan religions revered animals, they worshipped them, and they tried to harness their powers for human use.Catholicism I think was different. :pac:

I would say the distinction started before Catholicism.Jewish and Greek philosophers would see themselves as something quite different than animals, or Nature. They would assume dominion.

I would say urbanisation is a big factor here; we came together in close space, in a controlled and ordered environment ie the city. It was EXCLUSIVELY a place with human purpose as its defining factor. The chaotic wild was outside, we fear not having control and we soon saw our ordered world as superior to Nature. Our world was not shared with animals anymore. So is that one reason to distinguish ourselves? from other species?
Pagan religions were immersed in Nature, but Judeo-christain thought was an adaptation to urban life and was "removed" from Nature. Religions used to be guides on how to live ... the new religions morphed with our living patterns ...

Oh and the humans as virus; we are yes, but no need of any self-chastisement or anger. We are just doing what we do ... the mental trait that distinguihes us in one huge way is communication ( self awareness is in primates and prob many more). We are like a really successful growing beehive, using up resources. But our communication and organisation as a species is unprecendented, dialogue is not very 'animal'. A chimp troop for example gets to 40 or so max in numbers .. we are now nations due to communication, working (well:rolleyes:) in one general direction with a somewhat common purpose ... thats one successful pack, clan, tribe, society, whatever name makes you feel superior!!

DublinWriter

Gary L wrote: »

Excellent question. In terms of mental traits I would say what makes us special is the capacity for self awareness.

It's been scientifically proven that certain primates and elephants exhibit self-awareness.

Pablo_

paky wrote: »

Are we a super natural species?

... i don't see why we are, or have to be.

Turtyturd

WindSock wrote: »

Also imagination and creativity.

Personally I think they are big ones, I used to think that a concept of time was another one, but not so much now.

Woow_Aqualung

Turtyturd wrote: »

I used to think that a concept of time was another one, but not so much now.

Well I think most animals have a concept of time to a certain extent. An example of this would be how clams open and close with the cycle of the moon.

I think that humans are really the latest model of, as Dawkins says, machine which genes use to replicate themselves. I also think viruses are better at this in some respects: They're more numerous, they make exact copies of themselves and they have an extraordinary ability to adapt, which, as Darwin said, is the defining trait of the superior being.

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.

Stephentlig

Gary L wrote: »

I think to believe that is to deny your incredible freedom. For all we can tell, we are the pinnacle of existence. Why grasp for a master?

there is a freedom that leads us to love and a freedom that leads us to evil, our creator gives us these guidelines to love in the Gospel. but the very fact that we cannot prove there isnt a God, is a leap of faith and gives us all the more reason to search for a master.

for something that is unintelligent such as a spoon, cannot create itself, it needs someone with intelligence behind it to create it. therefore things such as the universe, the earth, etc etc, that harbours no intelligence of its own, needs a creator with intelligence behind it to form it.

Pax Christi
Stephen

Pablo_

last post kind of in the wrong thread or even forum but to try and reel it back to original topic .... if its tools and intelligence that defines humans, its not unique, primates use different tools for different purposes, certain twigs when catching termites and different rocks when cracking nuts, using 'hammers and anvils'.

And here'sa question? I don't believe we are the pinnacle of existence .. too homocentric and too much of a teleological interpretation of evolution but do scientists know of any animal/plant that evolved after 10,000 years ago? ie evolved into existence after homo-sapiens ?

Capt'n Midnight

It used to be said that we were the only animal that could run a mile , walk 20 swim a river and climb a tree.

Truth is that physically we are actually one of the best long distance hunters on the planet. Thousands can run a marathon, the bushmen of south africa, the austrialians , and some americans can all chase down large prey. And when you consider that kangaroos are perhaps the most efficient users of energy that is doubly impressive.

We are underdeveloped, IIRC they reckon we are born premature, compared to apes our hair folicles , slope of face, density of bones that sort of thing, and most importantly our brain connections haven't been wired up. So we are more of a blank slate than other animals and so more adaptable.

The great thing we invented is language, so we can learn from the experiances of others (or rather a few of us do

)

Turtyturd

Woow_Aqualung wrote: »

Well I think most animals have a concept of time to a certain extent. An example of this would be how clams open and close with the cycle of the moon.

I was talking more along the lines of living in the here and now. An animal will hunt its food and eat what it needs to do it until the next hunt. I used to consider that a big difference but hibernating animals kind of blow a hole in the theory.

Capt'n Midnight

Pablo_ wrote: »

And here'sa question? I don't believe we are the pinnacle of existence .. too homocentric and too much of a teleological interpretation of evolution but do scientists know of any animal/plant that evolved after 10,000 years ago? ie evolved into existence after homo-sapiens ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3322455/Why-elephants-are-not-so-long-in-the-tusk.html

Elephants are evolving smaller tusks due to pressure from hunting and poaching for ivory, according to conservation experts.

The average tusk size of African elephants has halved since the mid-19th century. A similar effect has been spotted in the Asian elephant population in India.

Researchers say it is an example of Darwinism in action, caused by the mass slaughter of dominant male elephants - but whereas evolution normally takes place over thousands of years, these changes have occurred within 150 years.

For animals as long lived as elephants 150 years is only a few generations.

sponsoredwalk

Cannibal Ox wrote: »

I'm not a big city biologist, but..

Hilarious

Here's a good book outlining the genetic similarities of all species & their evolutionary development
http://www.amazon.com/Endless-Forms-Most-Beautiful-Science/dp/0393060160 . It goes into some detail about the amazing ice-fish, the formation of limbs and genetic similarities to Drosophilia Melanogaster etc...

Whatever nonsense & blatantly socially biased judgements we fall privy to [such as a ladder-like categorization of species based on human values], & continue to fall privy to [such as a ladder-like categorization of species based on human values], the following quote by Stephen Jay Gould may help shed some light on the situation;

there's only one direction for change -- toward more complexity. But very few creatures move in that direction. Occasionally a couple of species dribble off in the direction of complexity, but that doesn't define a trend or a thrust. The most outstanding feature of life's history is that through 3.5 billion years this has remained, really, a bacterial planet. Most creatures are what they've always been: They're bacteria and they rule the world. And we need to be nice to them.

--http://motherjones.com/politics/1997/01/stephen-jay-gould

Victor

What separates us? Not a lot. Humans and pigs both get sunburn. We both suffer from swine flu and foot & mouth. Our current relationship is almost symbiotic. However, the whole "pigs in space" thing hasn't quite caught on yet.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The great thing we invented is language, so we can learn from the experiances of others (or rather a few of us do )

Humans are intelligent, people are stupid. While that sounds glib, we still engage in many behaviours that were learned hundreds of millions of years ago, e.g. if the herd runs, all its members will run, even if they don't know why they are running, simply because it is a measure that has evolved as a protection. It removes food from the reach of predators and tramples other predators. Drive a train past some horses and the horses will run with the train as they perceive it to be a herd and if the herd is running, they should be running also. Note there is no requirement for the herd to be of the same species - if 10,000 buffalo are running, getting out of the way makes sense.

Turtyturd wrote: »

I was talking more along the lines of living in the here and now. An animal will hunt its food and eat what it needs to do it until the next hunt. I used to consider that a big difference but hibernating animals kind of blow a hole in the theory.

Many animals, humans included, hoard food whether in cupboards or on their bodies. Give a dog or a bear food and they will eat a lot more than they need for one day. Give human or a squirrel food and they will try to store what they don't need immediately.

Pablo_ wrote: »

do scientists know of any animal/plant that evolved after 10,000 years ago? ie evolved into existence after homo-sapiens ?

Isn't that a bit homo-centric?

Chickens and other domesticated animals are a lot different to what they were 10,000 years ago. Wildlife is always adapting to circumstance, e.g. the field mice that became beach mice on Bull Island that first demonstrated Darwin's ideas.

Nebit

Gary L wrote: »

Excellent question. In terms of mental traits I would say what makes us special is the capacity for self awareness. It's not an innate sense though. Abstract thinking maybe.

Dublinwriter is correct

certain studies on primates have shown that they too are self aware, this was proven by placing them in front of a mirror to which they touched themselves acting out as we would. Therefore i wouldnt consider this a unique trait on to us.

Pablo_

Victor wrote: »

Isn't that a bit homo-centric? Chickens and other domesticated animals are a lot different to what they were 10,000 years ago. Wildlife is always adapting to circumstance, e.g. the field mice that became beach mice on Bull Island that first demonstrated Darwin's ideas.

Ya Victor, I see the dogs/chickens variation as homocentric, and the elephant tusks scenario, i.e. its got mans hands all over it but I got reading about the beach mice you mentioned. That really is evoluton in recent times, an adaptation to their environment, by their paler colouring.

Maggie Fuing

Humans are socialised beings . .unlike animals . .

Victor

Pablo_ wrote: »

Ya Victor, I see the dogs/chickens variation as homocentric

I mean that picking 10,000 years is homo-centric, just because its a mile stone for your species, doesn't mean it is for all species.

Turtyturd

Maggie Fuing wrote: »

Humans are socialised beings . .unlike animals . .

Humans are not naturally socialised either, its something we learn from the moment we are born. Animals can be socialised to a certain degree also.