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Child Item

JFK tower allowed a kid to direct air traffic

[Deleted User]

Just heard this on the radio :eek:.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35683779/ns/travel-news/

NEW YORK - A child apparently directed pilots last month from the air traffic control center at John F. Kennedy Airport, one of the nation's busiest airports, according to audio clips. The Federal Aviation Administration said Wednesday that it was investigating.
"Pending the outcome of our investigation, the employees involved in this incident are not controlling air traffic," the FAA said in a statement. "This behavior is not acceptable and does not demonstrate the kind of professionalism expected from all FAA employees." The agency declined to comment beyond the statement.
Recordings from mid-February — during a weeklong winter break for many New York schoolchildren — were posted last month on a Web site for air traffic control-listening aficionados.

I presume his Dad is definitely fired.. but what a legend of a kid.
20 years later when he goes for the job..
"what experience do you have?" ... "well.. funny story.."

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Kensington

Unbelievable how many people are of the "ah sure it's grand, what harm was he doing" opinion.

It's no wonder this country is as ****ed as it is...

Overheal

Minstrel27 wrote: »

Do you condone children sitting on their parents lap while they are driving?

What harm if the parent is telling them what way to turn.

Riddle101 wrote: »

It dosen't matter if the father was telling him what to say, there is no excuse for such disregard like that. It's an air traffic control tower, that is trusted to land planes, and when you do something like allowng your kid to land a plane you a putting the lives of the people on those planes in Jepordy.

My question is, did the pilots of the plane know it was a kid directing them [Yes they did. Audio: http://consumerist.com/2010/03/listen-as-a-kid-directs-air-traffic-at-jfk.html - Overheal] . If I was a pilot i'd be seriously angry with whoever allowed a child on the air, let alone direct a plane. I'd make sure it was a professional.

JFK TOWER: Jet Blue 171 contact departure
PILOT: Over to departure jet blue 171, awesome job.
The child appears to be supervised as a controller explains the reason for the young voice.
JFK TOWER: That's what you get guys when the kids are out of school. (laugh)

partyatmygaff wrote: »

It mightn't seem like a big deal to you guys but relaying instructions by a child could have caused a major accident. The kid could have called out the wrong callsign or directed them to a wrong heading or altitude. It's far too risky.

We're not talking about driving a car or hard-banking a Jet Liner. Theres enough Time for the Parent to intercept a bad radio call an Override it "*Callsign* Strike Last; *Correct Command*" - More importantly Im not sure he actually issued any other commands besides Contact Departure and Cleared for Takeoff? Well, Adios and Adios Amigo :pac:

We're also not talking about any G-Forces preventing the ATC from getting back in the hotseat to avoid a major catastrophe. Even if he cleared a plane for takeoff in Error, there is a good minute before clearance and the actual takeoff burn. Plllenty of time to tell a plane to abort and throttle down before it releases brakes and begins its run.

I can understand why some people may be upset but I think this was harmless. My comment on Consumerist:

Overheal wrote:

Nobody understands the risks of being an ATC better than an ATC. I hardly think one of them would jeopardize anyones safety, doing something like that.
It sounds every bit like a slow session where the ATC had time to bring his kid to work AND let him get coached on a couple simple radio commands. I dont imagine he did this during Peak Hours or anything and more importantly No this would not affect my feeling of safety next time I fly. IF ANYTHING is a friendly reminder that theres still Humans in the loop. And I like knowing that, frankly.

And the response I got from a Reader-come-Air Traffic Controller:

fs2k2isfun wrote:

Using the call signs, I was able to determine the recording took place around 7:00 p.m., Eastern time. I'm not familiar with the flow at JFK at that time, but I would think that would be a fairly busy time. Regardless, the kid did a good job and was easier to understand than some of the controllers I work with every day.

partyatmygaff

Kensington wrote: »

Unbelievable how many people are of the "ah sure it's grand, what harm was he doing" opinion.

It's no wonder this country is as ****ed as it is...

FFS, do we have to drag politics in to every single damn thread in this forum?

Sir Gallagher

I wonder if one of the pilots lifted the lid on the whole thing, i know that if i was one of the pilots taking off or landing a plane and some asshole's kid started giving me instructions i wouldn't be too pleased.

JohnK

None of them sounded unhappy with it in the audio.

Sir Gallagher

Kensington wrote: »

Unbelievable how many people are of the "ah sure it's grand, what harm was he doing" opinion.

It's no wonder this country is as ****ed as it is...

I reckon you must say this at least twenty times a day.

Dave!

Letting child verbalise father's instructions = no big deal

Letting child fly the plane = big deal

Overheal

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

I wonder if one of the pilots lifted the lid on the whole thing, i know that if i was one of the pilots taking off or landing a plane and some asshole's kid started giving me instructions i wouldn't be too pleased.

Its a good question how it ever leaked. Maybe the kid bragged about it or something. Or someone else in the tower got annoyed with it.

PirateShampoo

Is it to late for a "dey turk errr jerbs!" post?

rgt320q

Look lads, the ATC may be short but there's no need for namecalling.

G_R

ah lads come on, the kid came to work with his dad, and the dad let him give very simple instructions on the radio, cleared for departure etc.

Anyway, as far as I know, could be wrong, but i think that this controller only taxis the plane to the runway, a different controller takes over then to get it into the air. Nothing could really have gone wrong.

If the father left the kid sitting there for 20 mins, then there would be a problem, but he didnt, he was sitting beside him the whole time, making sure that everything he said was right and he didnt touch any buttons he shouldn't.

Pretty slow news day that this made it all around the world

Herb Powell

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

You don't remember the Aeroflot plane that crashed because the pilot let his child hold the controls while it was on auto-pilot. He was standing beside him telling him what to do too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_593

that is very different now in fairness

aDeener

Minstrel27 wrote: »

You do realise what the ATC do yes? They inform all pilots of what's happening in the air around them and give clearances for landing and so on.

what difference does it make once the instructions given are correct?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Minstrel27 wrote: »

Unless he is trained then it is a big deal.

No it's not.

If something serious happened, or the kid was left alone to control traffic then there would be a problem. This, more than likely, happened in a very controlled environment

Minstrel27

aDeener wrote: »

what difference does it make once the instructions given are correct?

I found it hard to understand what he was saying.

donvito99

We should let kids run everything in Dublin Airport. We've got nothing to lose.

MikeC101

partyatmygaff wrote: »

FFS, do we have to drag politics in to every single damn thread in this forum?

Drag politics in, like the way the current government have dragged this country down? It's no wonder *completely unrelated topic* is *in a shambles / rising / falling / staying the same* with people all thinking *reference to attitudes displayed in the thread*.

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

I reckon you must say this at least twenty times a day.

In between being outraged, appalled, shocked and disgusted at things, along with regular doses of "only in Ireland could this happen!" I'd imagine.

CrazyRabbit

The planes where all on the ground. The parent was issuing the commands and the kid just repeated them. Any mistake by the kid would have been instantly corrected.

I don't see anything dangerous in this particular case, but a child/unauthorised person should not have been in the control tower at all.

flowersagogo

i wonder i'f he'll let the kid sign on for him...

Padraig Mor

FFS some people here would really want to get a life. This was a completely harmless incidebt blown out of proportion. Read the article:

The few quick exchanges between the elementary-school-aged child and jets waiting to take off from JFK, one of the nation's busiest airports, appeared to delight pilots at the time.

"I wish I could bring my kid to work," one said, wistfully.
.............................................................................

On the recording, which lasts about a minute, the boy appears to repeat instructions fed to him by his father. At no time does the child tell aircraft how to maneuver or where they should go.
.................................................................................

the boy instructs the same JetBlue flight to contact departure controllers. The pilot responds: "Over to departure JetBlue 171, awesome job!"

There are a few more similar exchanges. A pilot laughs. The boy can be overheard giggling.

In his last call, the youngster signs off, "Adios, amigo." The pilot responds in kind

...............................................................................

LiveATC [planespotter site where the recordings were posted] founder Dave Pascoe, a pilot and radio enthusiast, said he was sickened at the thought that the controller could be disciplined.
"I absolutely believe that this is being blown out of proportion," he said. "This is just a completely controlled situation. A child was being told exactly what to say."
He added: "I think it's just fantastic that this guy cared enough to take his kid to work. How many parents take their kids to work these days?"

Overheal

Minstrel27 wrote: »

I found it hard to understand what he was saying.

You're not an ATC or a Pilot Im guessing.

Oh look! An Aviation Worker that responded to my comments on Consumerist.com:

fs2k2isfun wrote:

Using the call signs, I was able to determine the recording took place around 7:00 p.m., Eastern time. I'm not familiar with the flow at JFK at that time, but I would think that would be a fairly busy time. Regardless, the kid did a good job and was easier to understand than some of the controllers I work with every day.

donkey balls

if you think the kid directing traffic at jfk is mad have a read of this.
http://redirectingat.com/?id=42X487496&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thaindian.com%2Fnewsportal%2Fworld%2Fdutch-authorities-arrest-boeing-737-pilot-who-had-no-valid-pilot-license-2_100329347.html

Tom_

What an over-reaction, what next?

Nurse asks kid in hospital to hold a pair of scissors whilst she cuts bandage to appropriate length, who when given the scissors runs amoc in the hospital stbbing everyone in sight.

Sorry but what an over-reaction on moost peoples behalf, as someone mentioned alot worse must go on in those towers

[Deleted User]

Complete tools might think this is ok but the fact is that kids shouldn't even be allowed near the towers.

You may aswell let a kid answer 999 calls if his dad is next to him.

JohnK

Deleted User wrote: »

You may aswell let a kid answer 999 calls if his dad is next to him.

Oh for **** sakes theres absolutely no comparison between what that kid was doing and answering 999 calls :rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

JohnK wrote: »

Oh for **** sakes theres absolutely no comparison between what that kid was doing and answering 999 calls :rolleyes:

Yes there is.. Because I say there is. :cool:

Mitch Connor

said it when i first heard it, and stand by it now: Don't see what the problem is.

The kid's dad is obviously sitting right beside him, telling him exactly what to say and the kid is saying the exactly right things. No one was put in danger as a result of this.

If the kid had got free of his dad and had been on the radio trying to tell the pilots about bob the builder or (even worse) giving them false information putting them in danger I could see the problem, but that didn't happen. The situation was under control and the pilots/plane were told the right pieces of information at the right time.

[Deleted User]

Mitch Connor wrote: »

said it when i first heard it, and stand by it now: Don't see what the problem is.

The kid's dad is obviously sitting right beside him, telling him exactly what to say and the kid is saying the exactly right things. No one was put in danger as a result of this.

If the kid had got free of his dad and had been on the radio trying to tell the pilots about bob the builder or (even worse) giving them false information putting them in danger I could see the problem, but that didn't happen. The situation was under control and the pilots/plane were told the right pieces of information at the right time.

So where's the line then?

tipperaryboy

fair play to them.whats the big deal about nothing bad happened.

Run_to_da_hills

Mark200 wrote: »

I don't see the big deal really. Obviously it shouldn't have happened, but I'm sure his dad was right beside him just telling him what to say.

Children and aviation don't exactly go hand in hand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_593