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[US/IRL] 6x06 - "Sundown" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Sad Professor

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "SUNDOWN" -

Episode Title: "Sundown"
Airdate: March 2nd 2010

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

Sayid is faced with a difficult decision, and Claire sends a warning to the temple inhabitants.

Next New Episode: 6x07 - March 9th 2010

SPOILER WARNING:

From now on, this thread shall reveal details of the episode mentioned above. If you have not yet seen this episode, please do not move any further down the thread.

A REMINDER ABOUT USE OF SPOILERS:

No discussion of future episode spoilers. That includes anything the writers may have revealed in interviews, podcasts, etc. Even behind spoiler tags they don't belong in this thread. Promos for next week shouldn't be posted in here either.

And out of respect for those following the show on RTE, this episode should NOT be discussed outside of this thread until it has aired on RTE.

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Comments

Dempsey

How?? There has been 5seasons and now 6episodes of 'snails pace' Can you honestly tell me that from the end of S2 to now you understand the story? NO!

I dont have a clue what you are trying to say to me tbh.

From the time Juliet hitting the bomb until now has been slower than it needs to be for the audience to follow the program. From S3 until now, I understand everything that the writers have explained. What they have explained in 6 episodes could have easily been explained in one

e.g Sayid wanting to prove himself to be different from the man that tortured people in the Republican Guard was done already. We know that he strives to be a good man because of his past. There was nothing in the flash sideways that seemed to matter.

If the writers want people to care about something, they need to show the audience why its important or at least hint at it. They havent revealed the importance of the flash sideways and the majority of their audience dont go looking at lostpedia or listening to podcasts. Their audience is bored of all this now, reasons why people continue to watch the show should be a large cause for concern to the network.

Its all going abit like Prison Break!! :pac:

Sad Professor

I loved this ep.

I expected Dogen to die. In fact I expect a lot more people to die soon. This is the final season and they have too many characters. There's bound to be a culling soon. Although I will miss John Hawkes's character. I wish we'd gotten a bit more about him.

MIB so totally evil. Jacob asks for sacrifice, while MIB offers everything on a silver plate. His behaviour is perfectly consistent with with him being a Satanic figure. In fact he reminded me of Randall Flagg in this episode. Which is great because I've been waiting for a Randall Flagg-type figure to show up since the start. Funnily enough, it was initially theorised by many that Locke would be it.

Also, just like the False Aslan in the final Narnia book, UnLocke is leading people astray with his lies. Basically he wants everyone to abandon their mission on the island, destroying everything Jacob has worked for.

Jacob saving Dogen's son's life is very similar to what happened with Juliet's sister in season 3. Jacob cured her and in return Juliet had to stay on the island.

Sid_Justice

Also, who were the people at the end with locke? Were they people that were previously in the temple? i didn't spot the air hostess the rest I wouldn't recognise.

sprinkles

me-skywalker wrote: »

Although the kicker here is that we all assumed it would be Nadia yet he appeared as Locke... But is it not true that Sayid never knew that Locke was dead?

I thought it would be Locke. Didn't Sayid know that Locke was dead before heading back to the island?

me-skywalker wrote: »

*Dogen and Lennon dead - what was with the baseball that Dogen kept an eye on?

it was his sons I assume - his story about the car crash etc.

me-skywalker wrote: »

*How did llana , frank etc get to the temple and Richard has not appeared yet?

Richard wasn't with them, he ran off into the jungle after Locke let him go. Wonder where he's off to!

Sad Professor

Yes, Sayid knew Locke was dead. We saw him tell Hurley in the season 4 finale.

[-0-]

Best part of the episode - Miles saying Claire was still hot.

Sad Professor

me-skywalker wrote: »

Did they contradict themselves with the whole MIB becoming dead people?

I don't think so. I think they confirmed it actually. Dogen said it would be someone dead. There may just be limits to Dogen's knowledge, which is why he didn't know he is stuck as Locke.

What I found interesting was that Dogen said he was trapped and is only free since Jacob died. Smokey has been roaming the island since the pilot. I wonder if this has something to do with the cabin?

* So whats with the Ash now we know that Dogen was the one that was protecting the Temple.

Some connection between Dogen and the ash perhaps? I'm not sure but I think magic circles require the magician who created them in order to work.

Mr E

Good episode, liked it alot.

Still no idea where the flashsideways bits are going, but I have a feeling that its all building towards something cool that will bring everyone into a big "Wasn't Lost great? Aaah .... grouphug!" moment at the end of the final episode.

Dempsey

How did Smokie appear as Walt to Shannon & Sayid? How come some bodies disappear (Christian & Yemi) and some dont (Locke)

Yea, what some people say shouldnt be assumed to be "fact". Alot of characters generalise rules and facts which later do be proved to be inccurate (especially alot of waffle Ben says)

sprinkles

Dempsey wrote: »

How did Smokie appear as Walt to Shannon & Sayid? How come some bodies disappear (Christian & Yemi) and some dont (Locke)

I'd imagine it probably wasn't smokie as Shannon or Walt. These need to be explained though!!

Also while Christian's body was never found it could have been taken by the smoke monster and hidden somewhere. As for Yemi - was his skeleton not in the plane? Can't remember.

Dempsey

sprinkles wrote: »

I'd imagine it probably wasn't smokie as Shannon or Walt. These need to be explained though!!

Also while Christian's body was never found it could have been taken by the smoke monster and hidden somewhere. As for Yemi - was his skeleton not in the plane? Can't remember.

Yemi, it was at first but after the pyre it was gone.

Also, wasnt Christians coffin locked and Jack smashed it open?

InTheTrees

I'm unhappy.

From watching the entire five seasons over christmas i'm really having trouble with the week to week progression os season 6.

I think i'm going to have to take a break and watch them all in a block just before the series finale, but I dont think i can because I'm an addict...

Dempsey

InTheTrees wrote: »

I'm unhappy.

From watching the entire five seasons over christmas i'm really having trouble with the week to week progression os season 6.

I think i'm going to have to take a break and watch them all in a block just before the series finale, but I dont think i can because I'm an addict...

Was thinking of doing that myself but its like watching a delayed live football match, its not the same as watching it in real time. :pac:

opr

Your hardly watching in real-time judging by your location! I am in the same boat with this being my first full season watching from week to week and I am actually really enjoying getting to read all the theories and comments from week to week. I think its part of the fun of LOST. Even when I was watching full seasons I used to go hunting for old threads after watching certain episodes to see what the reaction was like at the time.

Opr

AnonoBoy

Are we not missing the real issue here?

Why does Keamy make such good eggs?

astrofool

I'd imagine the baseball was a reminder of his son (Dogen). I can also see the flash sideways being the alternate that MIB is promising (Sayid had Nadia but pushed her to his brother, Jack has a son, Locke is married, Claire has Aaron), the unravelling of which will be what brings the timelines together.

stevejazzx

So the evil Locke as one part of a duo of Egyptian? gods is fed up with judging the souls of those trapped in a 'limbo', people whose fate hangs in the balance and their choices on the island dictate whether or not they will have good lives and pass from the gateway back to their respective realities.
This god (wh is trapped himself in this limbo) has had enough; people were not choosing evil; they were choosing good. So he's found a loophole (have a mortal kill his partner) in the rules to kill his co-god (the good guy Jacob) and now he's building a little evil army of islanders in anticipation of destroying the gateway (island) because he does not believe people deserve a chance at redemption and maybe becasue noone can replace him unlike Jacobs position, which is up for candidacy. Now this is all very nice but it doesn't exactly relate to the first 2 seasons; vaguely to 3; slightly better 4&5 and now is moving somewhat slowly in the 6th despite killing a bunch of unknowns tonight in a not so shocking episode. If someone was to plot out on a piece of paper the entire story of lost consecutively from season 1 episode by episode it would make little sense. It's disappointing the writers have not referenced other majors events (i.e the season finale endings to date remember the scientists discovering the electric magnetic anomaly for Penny to find Desmond?). Without this complex cross referencing the show makes little if any sense; there is some time left, still a chance they might connect the 108 billion dots they've left behind but it seems from season 6 to date that the newest dots are all that count. In this episode we at least get further evidence that gods were somehow off island (not really explained but anyways) and recruiting for their candidacy (the story of Dogens son).
This explains how losties end up connected at least. I need more of this for the show to come full circle.

Dempsey

Sorry steve, your well off the mark

The pugartory/limbo theory has been squashed by the writers

cooker3

That was a weird episode but I enjoyed it.

I'm delighted Dogen and Lennon are dead. They just never did it for me. Of course Dogen in keeping with the golden rule of lost, as soon as he started telling his life story you know his time had come to an end.

In general the temple has been a slight disappointment. I'm glad they have progressed the story on from there. The end musical sequence was really weird with Claire singing to catch a falling star.

I thought the flash sideways were pretty decent. I enjoyed seeing Keamy again. I remember watching the season 4 dvd extras and the actor who plays Omar said after he got killed off, who knows maybe I will comeback and I laughed out loud. Well Anthony Azizi, you get the last laugh.

It's rather convenient that Ilana et al got into the temple without Flocke noticing. I mean really?

I think this is the end of part 1 of season 6 and I am very hopeful things are really going to pick up in pace now.

stevejazzx

Dempsey wrote: »

Sorry steve, your well off the mark

The pugartory/limbo theory has been squashed by the writers

It's not a limbo as much a gateway to aother reality (but kind of a limbo also:pac:)
Years ago the limbo thing meant something else entirely; I am aware it was one of the first theories ever posited and subsequently denied, however after Cartlon revealed during season 4 that "our houses would have more rooms than we thought" I knew the show would be about alterneate realities; the current flash sideways is a flash to a reality where the losties would go if succesful now (in this limbo:D). The island is a gateway; think Mr. Paik Seoul Gateway Hotel as a clue. The wrtiers have a way of denying a theory in a way that doesn't completely rule out elements of it.

there's a lovely theory here
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=121748

abelard

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Why does Keamy make such good eggs?

Frankly, his technique seemed to involve cracking them into a pan. That was it. No fancy garnishes. No herbal twist. No quick flip.

I was unimpressed.

:pac:

blue_steel

I so want to love season 6 but its just not happening for me. Don't get me wrong its still a great show but something not clicking this year. I get the feeling Jacob vs MIB conflict will be all we're going to get from here on out. Dharma, the others, 815ers, Black Rock folk, in short everyone and everything will be explained using that premise.
MIB sends Clare with a message... Dogan sends Sayid with a message... MIB sends Sayid with a message... you are safe in the temple... you aren't safe in the temple... the pool brings people back to life... then it doesn't... Sayid is possessed... then he isn't... then he is... ENOUGH OBFUSCATION ALREADY

Dempsey

stevejazzx wrote: »

It's not a limbo as much a gateway to aother reality (but kind of a limbo also:pac:)
Years ago the limbo thing meant something else entirely; I am aware it was one of the first theories ever posited and subsequently denied, however after Cartlon revealed during season 4 that "our houses would have more rooms than we thought" I knew the show would be about alterneate realities; the current flash sideways is a flash to a reality where the losties would go if succesful now (in this limbo:D). The island is a gateway; think Mr. Paik Seoul Gateway Hotel as a clue. The wrtiers have a way of denying a theory in a way that doesn't completely rule out elements of it.

there's a lovely theory here
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=121748

The writers were very strong on the point that the island actually exists in the real world and that the people are not dead

stevejazzx

Dempsey wrote: »

The writers were very strong on the point that the island actually exists in the real world and that the people are not dead

OK; you're not quite getting it/me. I never said they were dead, think limbo more metaphorically. They have been brought guided to the island to help resolve this thing between Jacob and the now Flocke. Their limbo is there between these two gods who are key to their destiny.
The fashbacks etc. are in the real world, the island has real world consequences in that thier decisions dictate where they end up; the island is not the real world so to speak. The island is a gateway to a reality, a timeline. Flocke is a not real world character; he is a god; the island is all smoke and mirrors; anything can happen. If the island is a real world place then it is only so in the sense that it exists in a realm and the events there are real only in the sense that they are supernatural events happening in reality:rolleyes:; the writers have again and again shown themselves as being, at the very least, disingenuous in answering questions. Thye've said a lot of things over the years - even suggesting a psuedo sicentific explanation at one stage; we're way past that now; although the real world attempts (pennys guys) to find a hidden island will have a scientific basis, as will the dharma's experimental history. But no so Jacob, the wirters employ these layers in the storytelling to mislead (red herrings we think are major clues but are really diversions or complex connections around the main story; think Widmores storyline or the valenzeti equation; or even the degroot ancestry and Walt. With so much going the on writers occupy a win win situation in terms of the spectrum of possible explanations. Whether or not it all sticks together is something we'll have to wait to see.

tok9

Another great episode imo. I've really enjoyed the last 3 episodes now.

It was just so dark. I was gutted to see Sayid go all bad.. that scene with Ben and Sayid was class

The final scene was excellent too.. really liked the catch a falling star music and Lockes group going through the jungle.

I wonder why Locke couldn't get in because of Dogen. Pity he died, i liked his character..

Flash Sideways were interesting and obviously meeting Jin was the big one. Where is Sun?

So far so good for me!

the_monkey

Speaking of Jin ... anyone get a translation of what he said to Sayid ..??

edit just checked on lostpedia ...

"Don't Kill me. Please. Let me live."

Dempsey

OK; you're not quite getting it/me. I never said they were dead, think limbo more metaphorically.

I read you fine.

If you believe that theory then fair enough but remember that its been shot down by writers, head writers and producers to the point where they wind up fans about it.

I'd be very very disappointed if that theory was it and in fact, a page later, there is quite a few hole shot through it.

Whilst there is alot of recurring themes right through out all the seasons, remember that this is a TV Show for Americans, it wont be expecting you to have researched philosphy or the valenzetti equation to enjoy the ending. Its a method of making the story seem far deeper than it actually is.

Sad Professor

I don't see any problem with the island being a metaphoric purgatory. Purgatory is just a mid-point between one world and another. If the wormhole theory is correct, then there might be some truth to it.

I think season 2 comes very close to explaining what the island is. I think Jacob and MIB are fighting over the island similar to way Jack and Locke fought over the button. I reckon the island may just be a bigger version of the Swan station. It's important to point out that the electromagnetic anomaly isn't gone, Desmond just sealed it.

don ramo

anyone else wondering why we saw dogen with his son in the flashsideways, surely if the island was sunk jacob wouldnt have been around to save his son in the first place,

flocke is pure evil undoubtably, but is he now gonna leave the island, he told sawyer theres noting special about this island, that was just a stinking island, and sawyer seems to have bought it hook line and sinker, which is moronic seeing as he has just spent 3 years in the 70s, i cant see flocke leaving, and i hope sawyer is just taggin along but realises flocke is pullin his strings,

jack is gonna be the hard one to call, he is seriously conflicted as to the meaning of it all, and with flocke manipulating so many it will be interesting to see what jack does, id be inclined to believe hell side with ellana and the others, but i would have doubths, currently id give him 70% likely to go with ellana,

also looking at the bigger picture why is kate still around, shes not a candidate, is there is gonna be a final candidate choosen to protect the island, you would assume it would be one of the main cast, and that all the main cast would be candidates,

JohnK

Dempsey wrote: »

e.g Sayid wanting to prove himself to be different from the man that tortured people in the Republican Guard was done already. We know that he strives to be a good man because of his past. There was nothing in the flash sideways that seemed to matter.

I’d disagree here, the flash sideways show that while he certainly strives to be a good man he ultimately fails and returns to the world of violence and killing which was mirrored on the island when he killed Dogen and the other guy. From what we’ve seen everyone elses life seems markedly different in the sideways world but Sayid isn’t really different at all – he ends up being a killer in both.

don ramo wrote: »

anyone else wondering why we saw dogen with his son in the flashsideways, surely if the island was sunk jacob wouldnt have been around to save his son in the first place,

Unless I'm mistaken, with all the other people Jacobs influence began when they were very young so its likely that Jacob was working on Dogen for quite some time and its possible he even engineered the promotion that lead to the drinking which caused the car crash. So with Jacob out of the picture that promotion may have never happened which would mean Dogen wouldn’t have been drinking so the crash would have never occurred.