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Project Maths sample paper

pathway33

What do you think of the project maths sample paper?

http://www.examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=sc&sc=ma

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amacachi

mercury127 wrote: »

The bell curve will still be adhered to, marking will be merciless.

Yes, but there'll be more people doing it, so those who would usually have been doing Ordinary maths will take up the lower marks, so all those who would've been doing higher maths will be further up the curve than they would be usually. Very unfair to those doing the old paper.

Fringe

What is up with the proof layout thing? The whole step by step method. It's almost like it's expecting you to learn off proofs rather than properly understanding them. This is terrible with what they're doing to maths. There's so many nice things about maths. In paper 2, there were some nice show that xxxx questions but it looks like they're completely gone.

pathway33

I think according to the timetable for project maths http://www.projectmaths.ie/overview/ the full changes to paper 2 won't become apparent until strands 3 and 4 are implemented. At the moment I think the sample paper takes account of strands 1 and 2 only. It will be september 2011 before 5th years (2013 LCers) start studying strands 3 and 4 and therefore the full new paper 2. But still like....come on :eek:

The___________

So I guess none of you lot are actually doing project maths then?
Well I'm and i sat that sample paper in nov/oct before you complain about how 'easy' it is you have too study the marking scheme it is BRUTAL.

After the exam our teacher copied our scripts before she sent them away,she corrected them using the standard marking scheme which involves losing 3 marks per mistake(so if you make a mistake in the first line of a 20 marker you can still get 17 marks for that question).Our results under this method were good mainly 75+ percent.

However when our scripts were finally returned after 4 MONTHS we all got a shock the marking scheme involves 'stages' i.e in a 20 mark question there will be a 5,10,15,20 mark stages you have too get a certain level of work done to gain a stage.This means that on mistake in the first line means that you will only get to the 5 mark stage meaning 12 marks lost in comparison to the old method.

All our results were in and around 30-40 percent lower than how our teacher had marked them previously.

dambarude

pathway33 wrote: »

I think according to the timetable for project maths http://www.projectmaths.ie/overview/ the full changes to paper 2 won't become apparent until strands 3 and 4 are implemented. At the moment I think the sample paper takes account of strands 1 and 2 only. It will be september 2011 before 5th years (2013 LCers) start studying strands 3 and 4 and therefore the full new paper 2. But still like....come on :eek:

But are strands 3/4/5 not just the strands that will be examined in Paper 1?

I know this paper is easier, but I'm still glad that I did the older one. I actually liked the old paper two. I don't like the look of this one at all.

pathway33

dambarude wrote: »

But are strands 3/4/5 not just the strands that will be examined in Paper 1?

According to the timetable strands 3 and/or 4 seem to overlap between papers 1 and 2

dambarude

The___________ wrote: »

However when our scripts were finally returned after 4 MONTHS we all got a shock the marking scheme involves 'stages' i.e in a 20 mark question there will be a 5,10,15,20 mark stages you have too get a certain level of work done to gain a stage.This means that on mistake in the first line means that you will only get to the 5 mark stage meaning 12 marks lost in comparison to the old method.

Most questions in the old course had stages of some description too. They probably weren't broken up as much though.

If making a mistake in the first stage means you won't get any marks in the next one, it will be very hard to do well in.

dambarude

pathway33 wrote: »

According to the timetable strands 3 and/or 4 seem to overlap between papers 1 and 2

But if strand 3/4 are number and algebra I don't see how they can overlap significantly.

pathway33

dambarude wrote: »

But if strand 3/4 are number and algebra I don't see how they can overlap significantly.

me neither. But why are they saying for June 2012 there will be changes to paper 2, and for June 2013 there will be a new paper 2. They won't have the new paper 2 until students have completed strands 3 and 4

amacachi

dambarude wrote: »

Most questions in the old course had stages of some description too. They probably weren't broken up as much though.

If making a mistake in the first stage means you won't get any marks in the next one, it will be very hard to do well in.

TBH when the questions are of the standard of that paper they should be all or nothing.

But really, if they're looking to keep the same perceived difficulty then what the hell exactly is the point? If people still think it's hard from the results they're not going to be more likely to do higher maths, so we're going to be stuck with still low numbers doing Higher Maths, but leaving school with an even lower standard. From what I've seen so far in first year of college I really feel for future 1st year if the expected standard in maths falls much further, and for lecturers.

pathway33

Now we know the real reason the maths exam will be dumbed down. It's not to make it easier for the students. It's to make it easier for the teachers

http://www.careerguidance.ie/news/news.php?newsId=307

Fad

pathway33 wrote: »

Now we know the real reason the maths exam will be dumbed down. It's not to make it easier for the students. It's to make it easier for the teachers
http://www.careerguidance.ie/news/news.php?newsId=307

Because there arent enough maths teachers.......think about it, if you have a quota of 40 staff, you're hardly going to hire some one who can just teach maths (Applied Maths at a push) when you can hire a Science teacher who can teach Maths just as adequately, on top of JC Science, an LC Science (maybe even two)...

Mazda

i effing HATE project maths

give me th regular paper anyday.. It's ridiculous to turn around and give students a whole new way of learning maths two years before they're to sit the LC. The teachers haven't a clue, we have 1 sample paper and a bunch of crap examples supposed to be our "book". If they'd brought this in from first year and worked it up I think it would have worked out much better, it's so unfair on both the students sitting PM and the students sitting the regular paper.

amacachi

Fad wrote: »

Because there arent enough maths teachers.......think about it, if you have a quota of 40 staff, you're hardly going to hire some one who can just teach maths (Applied Maths at a push) when you can hire a Science teacher who can teach Maths just as adequately, on top of JC Science, an LC Science (maybe even two)...

Should be though. To me maths is above any other subject in terms of the need for the teacher to be qualified beyond the Leaving Cert standard. I won't start making disparaging comments about other subjects but really, maths, languages and the sciences were the one subject I felt that the teachers had a clue beyond what they were reading from the book.

Fringe

It's not just about the difficulty. If this course is to prepare you for university, it's definitely not properly doing it. It looks like matrices are completely gone. The question on vectors is a joke. The further calculus section is gone and the geometry looks like Junior Cert stuff. Even the stats/prob is elementary. I feel sorry for the lecturers who will have to work much harder.

Making It Bad

Fringe wrote: »

It's not just about the difficulty. If this course is to prepare you for university, it's definitely not properly doing it. It looks like matrices are completely gone. The question on vectors is a joke. The further calculus section is gone and the geometry looks like Junior Cert stuff. Even the stats/prob is elementary. I feel sorry for the lecturers who will have to work much harder.

That was my reaction too. Have the universities been consulted about the new syllabus?

rebel girl 15

Making It Bad wrote: »

That was my reaction too. Have the universities been consulted about the new syllabus?

They probably have been - all stakeholders are consulted about any new syllabus, teachers, parents, businesses etc

Jammyc

All I can say is that anyone who wants to study maths in college after doing that shite, will be totally fucked.

rebel girl 15

Jammyc wrote: »

All I can say is that anyone who wants to study maths in college after doing that shite, will be totally fucked.

Yeah, defo +1.

I'm doing maths studies in college and its hard enough having done higher level maths in school, most the maths courses require a C3 in HL afaik, they will be looking for A1's when this syllabus is fully implemented

**Timbuk2**

That paper is a joke! My JC would have been harder than that! Even if somebody got an A1 in that, they would be unprepared for 3rd level Maths. Why are they trying to fix something that isn't broken?

rebel girl 15

The whole curriculum is changing, there are major reviews at the moment, but I don't see how this maths course is gonna help at an economic level - dumbing it down like that is ridiculous. But then again, the curriculum in Ireland is a product driven curriculum, not a process curriculum like it tries to set itself out as.

Look at the exams, at the end of the day it is not necessarily the most intelligent that get on well, it is the people who can memorize the material, apply the exam techniques and deal with the pressure that comes with the exams. Come this time next year, unless the students are doing it in college, they will have forgotten the material that they learned from the exams

The Irish curriculum gives the air that all learning occurs in the classroom, but that is far from the truth - learning occurs everywhere, everyday, not just in a class. Critical thinking and analysis is out the window, no wonder there is such a high drop out rate from first year of college. Critical analysis is required in college, and trying to get students used to that is hard enough, but now to basically have the colleges teaching the former HL LC course plus the college course is ridiculous - I've a feeling it will end up that there will be less and less going doing maths in college as a result of this, the direct opposite of what the Minister wanted to happen

gamgsam

Wayyy easier than the old paper.
Remember how the c questions used to really get you to think in some abstract way about the question? There's nothing like that there!

OxfordComma

This is absolutely outrageous (not to mention stupid). I'm completely shocked by how dumbed-down and infantile the Higher Level paper is. I'm actually kind of at a loss for words! I presumed the new curriculum would be perhaps slightly less demanding than the current one, but this is just beyond belief. If this course is implemented, Leaving Cert HL Maths is going to be far, far easier than any other LC subject. I really don't see the logic behind that

I did my LC last year and got an A1 in HL Maths, and the thought of peope doing such an incredibly easy paper is infuriating when students just a few years earlier were compelled to put in a lot of hard work and acquire an excellent standard of Mathematical skills to cope with the demands of the LC paper.

almostover

Bit of a joke whoever does this and goes into engineering is screwed

SligoBrewer

Matrices and vectors the two things that should have been expanded upon, have been culled. These two things are basically all that we do in Maths in College.

What the **** are the Department playing at?

pathway33

Colleges will probably make anybody currently needing a HC3 or above in maths for entry, do the special maths exam that currently allows people into engineering. Basically same course as the current leaving cert. So those people will have to study the new and old maths syllabus in a few years....maybe

[Deleted User]

Wow. I feel sorry for the folk I know doing this course, and for anyone wanting to do maths at 3rd level after this!

OxfordComma

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow. I feel sorry for the folk I know doing this course, and for anyone wanting to do maths at 3rd level after this!

Yeah, the universities are complaining about students' standard of maths as it is, and I really don't see how making the course colossally easy like this will help! Engineering courses in particular have massive drop out rates because students simply can't cope with the level of maths demanded of them.

marooose

Thats a joke!!! They should bring back the old old course! Now that was real maths......that stuff is bloody ridiculous!

felic

Is this a joke? You have GOT to be kidding me with this!
This paper could be done by someone in 6th class of Primary school.. with a little bit of work. My jaw is on the floor here!
What has happened to the Irish Education system? Ok the points system is crazy but this is an insult! BAsically, 10 years ago, I had the upmost respect for anyone getting 500 points or more in their Leaving Cert. Now? If this new paper is anything to go by? 600 points will mean 'Baa Baa Black sheep!'. Drop out rates at university will go through the roof if this is the standard now being expected of secondary level students. At uni, material is covered so so fast in lectures and its up to the student to do most of the work in their own time.
Talk about the American 'feel good' system being unrealistic? This is feel good on another level again! What next, a question on, list the 2 times tables up to x 12? Full marks? A1!

Come off it! This is infuriating!!!