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Child Item

Serious question: Can someone explain something?

Biggins

Serious question: Can someone explain something why young possible psychopaths are allowed to be given new identities in most cases when they get out?
They get out at 18 (or younger), move away and where ever they go to, the law/police/employers are not able to find out how dangerous these psycho's are!
Their cases are sealed to all!
(Sending them to prison is punishment for their crimes - not treatment - so the likelihood is that they will come out the same, just older and stronger!!!)

News story today where two boys are brutally attacked...
During their terrifying ordeal the boys were subjected to the following:

NOTE: Covered by spoilers given the strong nature of the harm done.
Please don't read if easily upset.

Made to try and kill themselves
Stripped naked and forced to perform sex acts
Burned the eyelids and ears of the nine-year-old
Choked with a clothes line
Sink and heavy stones and other objects dropped on their heads
Forced to eat dirt and nettles
Told they would be killed
Had arm cut open and a lit cigarette pushed into open wound
Throats scratched with broken glass
Burned under plastic sheet
...and probably more that they "can't" prove

Such was the full level of violence and things done to the boys that the Gordon Brown himself is asking for a full legal review!

News story (again, not easy reading) that has me bloody wondering if sometimes the law is doing the right thing: HERE

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genericguy

this is because the world is run by liberal pc pricks who think that this kind of carry on is a cry for help, rather than cutting through the shit and saying things as they are - some people are cnuts, and cnuts beget more cnuts. in cases like this, keys should be thrown away, and bastards like that should be harvested for organs.

Dr. Feelgood

thats ****ing awful

Sanjuro

This is a failure on the parts of the police, social workers, parents of the attackers and society in general. These animals... actually, animals wouldn't do that to their own. These little sh*ts deserve to be named and shamed. What they have done should follow them to their graves. To hell with protecting their anonymity. They should be exposed and used as examples to others.

OutlawPete

Maybe they feel that a fresh name and start would make them less likely to re-offend.

The prison system gets a lot of stick for just punishing people while no effort is put into rehabilitation.

Most criminals come out more criminally educated than they went in.

extra-ordinary_

Absolutely awful, but the two perpetrators were only children themselves.

genericguy

Dr. Feelgood wrote: »

thats ****ing awful

awful isn't the half of it. those two bastards made one of the kids try to kill himself by forcing him to stuff a stick down his own throat. a child of 9 or 10. if that was ever to happen to any future child i may have, i'd dissolve the two pricks alive. whether the offenders are children or not, i hope they get fcuking tortured in prison.

Biggins

OutlawPete wrote: »

Maybe they feel that a fresh name and start would make them less likely to re-offend.

Possibly but (and I'm not sure what the statistic's are so I most likely can be wrong) I think the majority % of those that come out, do indeed re-offend again.

OutlawPete wrote: »

Most criminals come out more criminally educated than they went in.

Very true.

Depressing.

walshb

I read about that. These guys are plain evil, they will not be healed or rehabilitated.
Some people are born evil, it's no different than some people being born with red hair or black hair etc. These two are evil, always will be. Bullet to the head now to prevent any future damage

WindSock

Community mental health care doesn't work for violent psychopaths. A bad decision made by the services involved.

BluesBerry

If anyone did that to a member of my family I would get my justice
I would fúcking end those little bastards life scum like that dont deserve the animosity they will get, another case of protecting the offender
Their identities be made public they should be publicly flogged They are just pure evil and dont tell me the need rehabilitation they need to be locked up for LIFE and life should mean life

I feel sick after reading that those 2 poor boys what will there life be like now that was just horrendous what happened to them their lives will never be the same again they will have to carry that around with them forever

MaybeLogic

A whole re-examination of the society that can produce animals like this would be more appropriate than calling for the execution of children.
The name change is to protect them from further punishment after release ,one would assume.
If they are deemed fit for release,I'm sure the proper authorities will know how to locate them and something like a perma-tag to monitor thier movements should be fitted.

sbsquarepants

If you ask me anybody capable of doing something like that at, any age, is just bad plain and simple, they will never be any other way. Whether they get out in 5, 10, 20 or 50 years, they will still be the same nasty pieces of **** they are now. I'm sure if you looked into it their parents are also wastes of space and probably their parents too. Very few decent families produce scumbag kids, and certainly very few scumbag families produce decent kids. There are exceptions obviously, but not many. I look around my are and i can see 6 and 7 year olds that i could guarantee will be in jail in 10 - 12 years time. Sometimes people are just no good!

WindSock

They may be anonymous to the community but they are not anonymous to the services. I am sure they and the Bulger guys get regularlarly checked, it still doesn't ensure that the community are safe. The unfortunate thing about psychopaths is that they are generally quite intelligent.

extra-ordinary_

walshb wrote: »

I read about that. These guys are plain evil, thy will not be healed or rehabilitated.
Some people are born evil, it's no different than some people being born with red hair or black hair etc. These two are evil, always will be. Bullet to the head now to prevent any future damage

The sad truth is that these two boys were born the same as the rest of us and we are just as capable of this **** as anyone else given the right set of circumstances.

MissIT

I don't care if the offenders are children they should be locked up for good.

Even though i generally live by "an eye for an eye leaves the world blind"
i would have a bit of trouble being sympathetic if they ever did get a taste of there own medicine.

Disgusting.

Blazer

Absolutely horrific...scum like these cannot be rehabilitated no matter what do-gooders say.
I remember reading the Jamie Bulger story and my heart broke thinking "how could kids do something like this"?
If anything ever happened to any of my family like this I don't care what age the attackers were they'd be long dead before it ever came to court..
I'd gladly serve the rest of my life in jail just to save some other innocent life or having another parent go through something like this.

c - 13

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

The sad truth is that these two boys were born the same as the rest of us and we are just as capable of this **** as anyone else given the right set of circumstances.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that. What are the "right circumstances" for doing that to two children of a similar age ? There are none, that isn't normal human behavior.

Biggins

MaybeLogic wrote: »

If they are deemed fit for release,I'm sure the proper authorities will know how to locate them and something like a perma-tag to monitor thier movements should be fitted.

(Not necessarily disagreeing with the your good points, just following up on a few points.)
* The problem is that after the years they will spend inside, they will become (probably) very well educated as to what to tell the parole board and how to behave in front of them.
* Will the authorities really be able to track them day to day? They (the sick sods) might claim that such constant lengthy tracking would be an infringement of their human rights (sick twist of irony but wouldn't put it past such sick people to claim it)
* I like the perma-tag idea to some extent (short term) but for how long and as per the reason above just mentioned, would it really prove effective in the long run?

Sealing their records completely and changing their names absolutely, is highly risky (I suspect myself).
I 'm not advocating that their names and crimes should be shouted from the roof tops of a city hall but its seems either one extreme or the other, they are known to the police and subsequently be occasional observed or (wherever they will move to eventually) the local police will not have a clue about such possible phyco's in their (new) area.
I scratch my head for a compromise solution to such a problem.

sbsquarepants

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

The sad truth is that these two boys were born the same as the rest of us and we are just as capable of this **** as anyone else given the right set of circumstances.

Nonsense! To put it mildly.
Thats just politically correct bollox. We aren't all born the same, not by any stretch of the imagination, nor are we all capable of this. This is sick and disgusting and down right evil, just like the 2 little bastards who done it. I'm not anything like that and either are 99% of people

WindSock

c - 13 wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't believe that. What are the "right circumstances" for doing that to two children of a similar age ? There are none, that isn't normal human behavior.

There is no amount of social conditioning that produces psychopaths. They can exist in any spectrum of society.

miss_shadow

Unfortunately it's a cycle which gets pregressively worse, those boys parents were probably (obviously) very very bad parents who mentally and physically harmed them who thought nothing wrong them playing grand theft auto at the age of six.
And those boys will go on to have children of their own, taken into care with social workers as part of their normal day to day life and the cycle goes on and gets worse!!..

I don't think I have known a person who has been in care to be mentally and/or emotionally stable,and I have come across a few in my time. maybe the odd few have battled against it but in my own opinion the majority have issues they cannot resolve.

givyjoe81

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

The sad truth is that these two boys were born the same as the rest of us and we are just as capable of this **** as anyone else given the right set of circumstances.

Bullsh1t.. while some or all of us may have treated other kids cruely or mean when we were kids, 99.999999% of people would never come near doing what these kids did.. Not only did they do this to these two kids, they tried a week previously to do it to someone else. This time they went somewhere more secluded to ensure they wouldnt be disturbed. Im sure many of us could do fcuked up things if we were treated badly enough as kids but i highly many, if any of us would sink that low.

MaybeLogic

Biggins wrote: »

(Not necessarily disagreeing with the your good points, just following up on a few points.)
* The problem is that after the years they will spend inside, they will become (probably) very well educated as to what to tell the parole board and how to behave in front of them.
* Will the authorities really be able to track them day to day? They (the sick sods) might claim that such constant lengthy tracking would be an infringement of their human rights (sick twist of irony but wouldn't put it past such sick people to claim it)
* I like the perma-tag idea to some extent (short term) but for how long and as per the reason above just mentioned, would it really prove effective in the long run?

Sealing their records completely and changing their names absolutely, is highly risky (I suspect myself).
I 'm not advocating that their names and crimes should be shouted from the roof tops of a city hall but its seems either one extreme or the other, they are known to the police and subsequently be occasional observed or (wherever they will move to eventually) the local police will not have a clue about such possible phyco's in their (new) area.
I scratch my head for a compromise solution to such a problem.

They didn't actually kill anyone.
And as children they can only be punished to a certain extent ,as the law stands.
Then we would have to talk about keeping them locked up for their potential to commit crime,a dangerous road to go down.
One can only hope that the authorites will be dilligent in monitoring them after release.

Ickle Magoo

miss_shadow wrote: »

I don't think I have known a person who has been in care to be mentally and/or emotionally stable,and I have come across a few in my time. maybe the odd few have battled against it but in my own opinion the majority have issues they cannot resolve.

That's complete & utter horse-shít. How many people who have spent time in care do you actually know?! There are hundreds of thousands of fully functioning members of the public who have spent time in care & you would never know. :rolleyes:

extra-ordinary_

c - 13 wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't believe that. What are the "right circumstances" for doing that to two children of a similar age ? There are none, that isn't normal human behavior.

It's not 'normal' human behaviour, but it is human behaviour and these boys were born the same as the rest of us.

Give me two new-born babies, and I'm quite sure I could develop them into far worse monsters than these two boys.

Bazzy

Why hell was invented if you ask me and i hope they burn in the fires of it there.

The same should be done to them as punishment

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Sanjuro wrote: »

This is a failure on the parts of the police, social workers, parents of the attackers and society in general. These animals... actually, animals wouldn't do that to their own. These little sh*ts deserve to be named and shamed. What they have done should follow them to their graves. To hell with protecting their anonymity. They should be exposed and used as examples to others.

How have the police and social workers failed?

walshb wrote: »

I read about that. These guys are plain evil, they will not be healed or rehabilitated.
Some people are born evil, it's no different than some people being born with red hair or black hair etc. These two are evil, always will be. Bullet to the head now to prevent any future damage

There's an evil gene? :eek:

c - 13 wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't believe that. What are the "right circumstances" for doing that to two children of a similar age ? There are none, that isn't normal human behavior.

Conditioning I believe he meant. Psychopaths are born as they are, scientists believe and there is no cure. One could ask, is it their fault? Are there any known psychopaths that co exist with "normal" people? Who are not hate fueled monsters?

Society does not have a great understanding of psychopaths, nor do they have a good way of dealing with them. "lock 'em up for life" etc etc. It's not always the best way to deal with psychopaths. To know how to deal with them effectively and efficiently, more research needs to be done. Labotomy's worked, but well... that's not very PC, now is it? :P

Biggins

MaybeLogic wrote: »

(1) They didn't actually kill anyone.
(2) And as children they can only be punished to a certain extent, as the law stands.
(3) Then we would have to talk about keeping them locked up for their potential to commit crime, a dangerous road to go down.
(4) One can only hope that the authorities will be diligent in monitoring them after release.

(1) They tried damn hard enough, thankfully they failed (although given possible scared mental state of the two survivors in future years to come, one must wonder is it a blessing or a curse).
(2) Absolutely true in most cases and understandable.
(3) Very true.
(4) We can hope but given an already over burdened system, lack of staff numbers, funding (lack of too), etc, I wouldn't hold out much hope in that being successful at all.

uncleoswald

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Nonsense! To put it mildly.
Thats just politically correct bollox. We aren't all born the same, not by any stretch of the imagination, nor are we all capable of this. This is sick and disgusting and down right evil, just like the 2 little bastards who done it. I'm not anything like that and either are 99% of people

So you are saying they are born like this? Kind of like a disability? Maybe there is a test you can develop that you can give all children to find this evil gene and then they can be locked up/exterminated before they can harm anyone...?

ArmaniJeanss

Biggins wrote: »

Serious question: ]

Its not really a serious question is it, Biggins?
If it was you'd have asked it in Humanities or Politics and you'd have got a serious debate where your opinion would likely have been rebutted.
If it was a serious question you wouldn't have asked it in the immediate aftermath of this courtcase (knowing full well that the proximity of the case would lead to the boards nutjobs trying to outdo each other thinking up violent punishments).