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Do you think having a belief and obeying the rules make you less 'human' and ...

booksale

Do you think having a belief and obeying the rules make you less 'human' and less able to enjoy the life fully?

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Soul Winner

booksale wrote: »

Do you think having a belief and obeying the rules make you less 'human' and less able to enjoy the life fully?

Absolutely not. For the Christian the promise is deliverance from death to life. Jesus said: "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly". John 10:10. Having no belief in anything and obeying no rules is what would make us less human IMO. Even if I didn't believe in Christianity I would still want to have structure and purpose in my life. Rules and values are what gives us purpose and structure no matter what the discipline, be it religious or not. Without these we just have anarchy, heck even the animals have structures and purpose within their groups.

doctoremma

Jakkass wrote: »

For any effective morality to really hold up, there is a need for objective moral attributes. If these don't exist, one cannot really call ones system moral, as it is not mutually binding.

Agree in principle.

Jakkass wrote: »

Believing that these standards are derived from God is superior to the view that these are derived from ourselves. The latter falls apart on any real inspection.

Disagree vehemently. You do not need any god to provide the objective moral standard.

chozometroid

astroguy wrote: »

Assuming you mean "having a religious belief" and following the rules associated with that, then I believe it does render you less able to enjoy life fully. If you spend your time on this Earth believing in a higher power and a "better place" after death, then you are less likely to get the most out of and enjoy life. When you know this is not the case, you can really enjoy life and appreciate the wonders of Nature, evolved over billions of years. The idea is to make the most of your time here, as it's all there ever will be.

When you realize you will die and cease to exist in a short time, you can really enjoy life and appreciate the "wonders of Nature?" Actually, I think when you realize that it's all in vain, the beauty should be removed. It's only beautiful because of the illusion created by your primitive evolved brain. You are just an randomly evolved entity observing other collections of randomly evolved entities. Your purpose is only to help your DNA survive. You will die soon and never know if you existed or not.

philologos

astroguy wrote: »

It's true that ethics and morals do not require a deity.

Is it?

astroguy wrote: »

One of the most common criticisms of non-religious people by their religious counterparts is something along the lines of "without a religious book/ set of rules, how can you have a moral code?"

That isn't quite the objection I'd have.

astroguy wrote: »

Religion is clearly superfluous here as it is hypocritical to say that you need religion as a moral guidance yet then to pick and choose the rules that are appropriate in the current age anyway.

This is a different argument. I would hold to the position, that morality requires God. As in God puts the moral conscience into us, and gives us a moral standard to lead our lives. We can choose to live lives outside of His authority, or we can choose to respect and live in His boundaries which are there for our welfare and well being.

astroguy wrote: »

Clearly the argument becomes circular and any rational thinking person can realise that we don't need religion as a moral compass because it doesn't work anyway.

How does it? Again, shoving "rational thinking person" in there doesn't make your argument any more viable?

For any effective morality to really hold up, there is a need for objective moral attributes. If these don't exist, one cannot really call ones system moral, as it is not mutually binding.

Believing that these standards are derived from God is superior to the view that these are derived from ourselves. The latter falls apart on any real inspection.

PDN

I don't think having a belief and living with rules diminishes one's humanity in the slightest.

All of us live by rules, and life can become impossible when certain rules are ignored or simply don't exist.

For example, most of us at one time or another have moaned about traffic laws. Stopping at red lights, not being able to park on double yellow lines, observing speed limits etc. can all be irksome. But anyone who has ever tried to drive in Lagos or Nairobi will tell you to be grateful for those rules!

astroguy

It's true that ethics and morals do not require a deity. One of the most common criticisms of non-religious people by their religious counterparts is something along the lines of "without a religious book/ set of rules, how can you have a moral code?" . Religion is clearly superfluous here as it is hypocritical to say that you need religion as a moral guidance yet then to pick and choose the rules that are appropriate in the current age anyway. Clearly the argument becomes circular and any rational thinking person can realise that we don't need religion as a moral compass because it doesn't work anyway.

Boardnashea

I'm always surprised (or maybe reassured)by how much all the different sets of "rules" have in common. And that goes for the rules that people who believe there isn't any god(s) live by too. Ethics and morals don't require a deity ("deities" doesn't look right).

MrPudding

Malty_T wrote: »

I call JC.:D

That would be a special kind of hell.

MrP

astroguy

Assuming you mean "having a religious belief" and following the rules associated with that, then I believe it does render you less able to enjoy life fully. If you spend your time on this Earth believing in a higher power and a "better place" after death, then you are less likely to get the most out of and enjoy life. When you know this is not the case, you can really enjoy life and appreciate the wonders of Nature, evolved over billions of years. The idea is to make the most of your time here, as it's all there ever will be.

Turtwig

mardybumbum wrote: »

I was never happy as a believer.
All that making sure I dont go to hell business was a pain in the arse.
But when the rapture comes, I will make sure there is a Christian nearby to grap hold of.
I call Dibs on Jakkass. :P

I suppose it depends on the scale of belief you had, I personally never feared hell or for that matter saw it in the light I do now. Suppose I was always under the assumption I was going to heaven anyway.:pac:

I call JC.:D

mardybumbum

Malty_T wrote: »

As for enjoying life fully, well, when I was a believer I was happy, although I do think I'm much happier now. Yet the believers that I talk to seem to think that my view of reality is utterly depressing and chilling, which it probably is, but I love it anyway,:D
(Actually that probably goes for most people I talk to openly about that kind of stuff.)

I was never happy as a believer.
All that making sure I dont go to hell business was a pain in the arse.
But when the rapture comes, I will make sure there is a Christian nearby to grap hold of.
I call Dibs on Jakkass. :P

Turtwig

booksale wrote: »

Do you think having a belief and obeying the rules make you less 'human' and less able to enjoy the life fully?

Humans evolved to believe in God(s) so believing is natural. I'd argue that not believing in God makes you less human, but I think it's path a that humans will eventually head down. Religion formed the initial structures of society but it now seems we are slowly realising the flaws in those primitive structures.

As for enjoying life fully, well, when I was a believer I was happy, although I do think I'm much happier now. Yet the believers that I talk to seem to think that my view of reality is utterly depressing and chilling, which it probably is, but I love it anyway,:D
(Actually that probably goes for most people I talk to openly about that kind of stuff.)

chozometroid

booksale wrote: »

Do you think having a belief and obeying the rules make you less 'human' and less able to enjoy the life fully?

I'm sensing a translation error here.
You must be intending to say "a religious belief" and "obeying the rules of that religion."
As it turns out, not obeying God's commands actually makes life much worse. Sin is easy, instant gratification, but the meaningful things in life and worked for. This is a deep topic.

neuro-praxis

If you could show me a human being who does not have beliefs and does not obey rules, I'd be very interested.

Handsome Bob

booksale wrote: »

Do you think having a belief and obeying the rules make you less 'human' and less able to enjoy the life fully?

In a sense it does I'm sure, but only because we live in a society where it's becoming increasingly "uncool" to be religious among younger people, and thus one could potentially be treated as the religious "oddball" or "outcast".

In regards to the actual religious beliefs, I'm sure every Christian that posts here will tell you that the self-fufillment that they feel by obeying the rules is immense.