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Calor Propane gas in same bottle as Butane

dowtchaboy

I've been using my van right up to Christmas Eve, and will be again from next Monday, so keeping it warm is important.
As soon as the outside temperature dropped to about 4 degrees my Butane (ordinary 11Kg Calor or FloGas yellow bottle) stopped.

So I decided to switch to Propane. I thought I would have to buy yet another regulator but I was surprised to find a local Calor stockist (4Home, Carrigaline) had 11kg bottles of Propane in the normal yellow Calor bottles with a red splash on the collar, and the SAME regulator as the ordinary Butane one.

FloGas also have propane but with a screw-in type regulator, and of course there is also Calor PatioGas which is Propane but in a grey bottle with, you guessed it, yet another type of regulator.

I don't like to get tied in to one supplier, but it is very handy to be able to swap bottles and not have to fiddle about with jubilee clips etc. So my question is - is it common to be able to get Calor Propane in yellow bottle with red splash and normal regulator everywhere around the country?

I spoke with a person from Calor who assured me these are easy to get hold of, but I have a feeling the ordinary country grocery shop and filling station will not have these.

I suppose another possibility is to get a yellow Butane bottle refilled with Propane? Actually this would suit very well as I have 3 or 4 small bottle (5ish kg). I usually get my butane bottles refilled at FloGas in Innishannon but never thought to ask them if they could put Propane in.

Any opinions??

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aerosol

Never come across a yellow bottle filled with propane,I guess the bottles are the same so its marked with a red splash to show its propane.(the green french bottle I have can be filled with either type of gas)
Regulators as far as I'm aware are defo different.

dowtchaboy

aerosol wrote: »

Regulators as far as I'm aware are defo different.

That's what surprised me too, though there is no technical reason why the same regulator and connector should not be used. The bottle and regulator I got in Germany with the van was marked butan/propan.

The reg on the Calor Patiogas (propane) has a 3 position switch on the side - Unlock/Off/On positions.
With this one (yellow bottle with red flash) I just popped the regulator off my butane bottle and pushed it onto this one. Usual sort of regulator - black plastic circle around bottom that gets pushed down until it clicks, and a tab with a dip in it on the top that flips on/off.
And what I've got must be propane for it is working away even in todays weather! (though the pressure at the gas rings seems a bit lower than with butane - might be imagination)
My van is set for propane I think, but possibly 50mbar rather than 28 or 30. The water heater and the air heater work fine on both.

dowtchaboy

Just an update: I've finally used up the Propane bottle after yet another couple of cold weeks at College. I was wrong - it's a FloGas bottle, not Calor. So I bunged in an email to Flogas and they replied that I had somehow stumbled upon a very old and rare beast indeed and that I should splash out and buy yet another regulator for their "normal" Propane bottles.
I don't think so. I am getting fed up with my growing collection of incompatible gas bottles (German, UK, Irish (3 types)) and regulators. I am also getting fed up with the price - just a touch under €30 for 11Kg here - and it's €12 in SuperU stations in France!

So I guess I will just have to go see if 4Home have another Propane one, and if not I will get my bottles refilled with Propane at the guys on Forge Hill (perhaps) or the helpful people in Innishannon until the weather warms up and switch back to easily available Butane then. At least this way I don't have to mess with jubilee clips in the dark to change bottles, and I can carry a little 'un (5Kg) just in case I run out (my gas locker will not hold 2 x big ones).

vinniem

dowtchaboy wrote: »

Just an update: I've finally used up the Propane bottle after yet another couple of cold weeks at College. I was wrong - it's a FloGas bottle, not Calor. So I bunged in an email to Flogas and they replied that I had somehow stumbled upon a very old and rare beast indeed and that I should splash out and buy yet another regulator for their "normal" Propane bottles.
I don't think so. I am getting fed up with my growing collection of incompatible gas bottles (German, UK, Irish (3 types)) and regulators. I am also getting fed up with the price - just a touch under €30 for 11Kg here - and it's €12 in SuperU stations in France!

QUOTE]
Hi ya, same thing happened to me sat night...heater stopped working and emptied water tank (Truma) freezing in campervan but had warm quilts..haha. Only found out later from reading manuals about Butane issues at low temps. My question is (now that will be using propane) can I just change bottle adapter to accept propane (grey bottle) or do I need to change that in line 'flying saucer' type regulator also? Also is propane more expensive than butane? Thanks

dowtchaboy

Vinniem - sounds like your system is newer than mine - I use the Jumbo bottle adaptor/regulator all-in-one - ie I don't have a separate in-line regulator screwed to the wall of the van as is now the standard. The "Jumbo" regulator is the one every country household has or had for kitchen cooker, SuperSer heater etc.

What type is your bottle of Butane? Is it the ordinary available at every hardware store type 11Kg yellow bottle? The point I was making is that I can get Propane in exactly the same bottle - I don't have to get the grey Patio gas bottle and its special regulator.

I'm not sure what's going on - FloGas are denying that such a thing exists yet I went back today (to 4Home/DairyGold Coop) and there were 20+ bottles of Propane some in totally orange bottles, and all with the bog-standard Jumbo type clip-on regulator connection.

Patio gas come in slightly smaller bottles and is dearer. Propane in the 11Kg is about 2 Euro dearer than Butane. I think the Propane is supposed to run at a slightly higher presssure (30 mb) whereas the regulator for Butane is 28. Mind you my van being '94 is probably set up for the old 50mb German standard so I am lucky it works at all!

There are people lurking around here who are much more knowledgeable about gas in camper vans - I am surprised they haven't popped up before now to ignite(!) the Propane versus Butane debate..... (see motorhomefacts.co.uk or motorhomefun.co.uk for more drama.....)

peasant

dowtchaboy wrote: »

There are people lurking around here who are much more knowledgeable about gas in camper vans - I am surprised they haven't popped up before now to ignite(!) the Propane versus Butane debate..... (see motorhomefacts.co.uk or motorhomefun.co.uk for more drama.....)

There is no need for any heated discussion ...Propane is the only gas that is any use for camping all year round ...argument settled

As for connectors and all that ...all the years in Ireland and on all my vehicles I've used the grey German bottles that came with the vehicle (both 5 and 11 kg) and the original connectors.

As the thread on the German bottles is the same as on the big Calor gas bottles having them refilled (with Propane) has never been much of a problem either ...some filling agents might balk at it first, but once you persist, it's ok.

vinniem

I use the Jumbo bottle adaptor/regulator all-in-one - ie I don't have a separate in-line regulator screwed to the wall of the van as is now the standard.

I have the standard gas bottle connector where you pull the ring up and then clip onto top of bottle.

What type is your bottle of Butane? Is it the ordinary available at every hardware store type 11Kg yellow bottle? The point I was making is that I can get Propane in exactly the same bottle - I don't have to get the grey Patio gas bottle and its special regulator.

Have the yellow butane bottle

Patio gas come in slightly smaller bottles and is dearer. Propane in the 11Kg is about 2 Euro dearer than Butane. I think the Propane is supposed to run at a slightly higher presssure (30 mb) whereas the regulator for Butane is 28. Mind you my van being '94 is probably set up for the old 50mb German standard so I am lucky it works at all!

Does this mean i will have to change line regulator?

Thanks dowtchaboy

dowtchaboy

You pull the black plasticky ring up, push the whole thing onto the bottle and then push the ring down until it clicks, yes? Then you flip the "switch" on the top? Yer common or garden Calorgas bottle regulator by the sound of it, though having a 2 regulators in a row seems odd. Maybe yours does not have the regulator (ie gas pressure reduction) built in.

Anyhow - if it's an ordinary Calor or FloGas yellow butane bottle (11Kg) then it would be worth your while checking round for a Propane filled one. They are roughly the same calorific value, and I have had no problems just popping one in in place of the other.

You wont find the Propane filled bottle at the local grocery store I suspect - you may need to check out a bigger dealer, a farmers' Co-op, builder's merchant and so on. Where I got mine they said they keep it in stock for guys who work outdoors doing stuff like torch-on felt and so on. It seems they are supposed to be coloured orange in Ireland.

Oh - my guy had no problem with me leaving him any kind of bottle, Calor, FloGas, Propane, Butane, Patio Gas - just as long as he got some sort of bottle for every refilled one he handed out.

vinniem

Thanks Dowtchaboy:D
Looked last night and deffo old type connector with pull up ring on bottle but then there is a bit of hosing and a 30mb regulator in line and then solid pipe into camper. Have an old patio heater at home, so took regulator off that (as its propane) Now I know Butane is about 28mb, but if I put propane connector/regulator on end of hose and connect..will the 30mb in line regulator blow as propane is higher pressure I think?

dowtchaboy

vinniem wrote: »

T Now I know Butane is about 28mb, but if I put propane connector/regulator on end of hose and connect..will the 30mb in line regulator blow as propane is higher pressure I think?

At this point I should be saying something like "Please consult with a Qualified Registered Gas Fitter" and if you blow your van up it's not my fault!
As far as I know the pressures in "ordinary" domestic gas bottles is much the same for Propane as for Butane and the regulators reduce that pressure to 28 or 30mb for distribution around the van. At one point Propane regulators used to put out 37mb I think but since 2004 EU regulations call for 30mb for both gases in domestic situations.

However - I am not experienced in gas fittings and I am not clear on how your connections would work - so I would strongly suggest you have a chat with a campervan or caravan dealer - they are quite a friendly bunch, even if it's obvious you are not that you are not going to be a customer - this week!

Aidan_M_M

Couldn't agree more with Peasant , Propane is the best Gas on the market . Full stop! I advise ALL our customers to use it . And I can buy it "off the shelf" as it were , in places like Nenagh , Roscrea etc , with the same conection on top as the standard Calor Gas bottle . It burns hotter , and lasts longer . The last course I did in Truma UK , they told us that1 kg of liquid Butane , yields 220 litres of gas
1 kg of liquid propane yields 260 litres . So even if it's dearer...it's actually cheaper!

vinniem

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with Peasant , Propane is the best Gas on the market . Full stop! I advise ALL our customers to use it . And I can buy it "off the shelf" as it were , in places like Nenagh , Roscrea etc , with the same conection on top as the standard Calor Gas bottle . It burns hotter , and lasts longer . The last course I did in Truma UK , they told us that1 kg of liquid Butane , yields 220 litres of gas
1 kg of liquid propane yields 260 litres . So even if it's dearer...it's actually cheaper!

Aidan-m-m, thanks for that:)...really had no clue about this issue till it happened so now wiser. So as your in the trade, can I just remove my old butane bottle and put a propane one in its place if connector the same...no issues with pressures etc? If connector is different I have a propane connector/regulator from old patio heater. Thanks

Aidan_M_M

vinniem wrote: »

Aidan-m-m, thanks for that:)...really had no clue about this issue till it happened so now wiser. So as your in the trade, can I just remove my old butane bottle and put a propane one in its place if connector the same...no issues with pressures etc? If connector is different I have a propane connector/regulator from old patio heater. Thanks

yes , the regulator controls the working pressure . I wouldn't use the patio heater one unless it clearly states Propane/Butane 29-37mb .
And I ALWAYS advise getting a gas leak test done . I tested 2 motorhomes lately , a 2005 and a 2007 , both with gas leaks....

vinniem

Thanks Aidan, will check it out. Had a fair idea that in line regulator set to 30mb would regulate pressure that was presented to it. If there is a small leak could one smell it?

Aidan_M_M

Not definitely . I have a decent sense of smell , and couldn't smell it in the campers . You can have a leak in a vented area too , like the back of the fridge , or in the Gas locker .

bido

Hold a lighted cigarette lighter near it and if it lights you have a leak.

only joking:D do'nt try that:P

Aidan_M_M

I use a proper pump with a guage , I pressurise it to 150mb , and watch for pressure drops . I find it a bit less nerve wracking than using a lighter...:p

DVD2009

hi , i got a bit lost inbetween the different regulaters propane/butane etc ....i just got a camper the was a screw on regulater and i just swapped it for the old type (push on , click the bottom ring and flick the lever on top like on my old super ser gas heater) is this ok or did i make a mistake?

Aidan_M_M

what year is your camper?

*Kol*

What type of regulators do they use in France? In the case it's different and a bottle of gas had to be bought on holidays would it just be a matter of swapping to a French type regulator?

DVD2009

hymer swing 2001

Aidan_M_M

*Kol* wrote: »

What type of regulators do they use in France? In the case it's different and a bottle of gas had to be bought on holidays would it just be a matter of swapping to a French type regulator?

Tis different to ours , see here http://www.gaslow.co.uk/pages/products/list_1.htm scroll down..

Aidan_M_M

DVD2009 wrote: »

hymer swing 2001

You're ok so as long as you've no leaks and a good hose .

proponent

Hi all,
im going to revive this thread now as it seems to be only one thats talking about this.

I recently got a lovely gift of a rather fancy gas barbeque for my birthday with regulator and all.

I got an old (yet full) gas bottle from my dad but the regulator will not fit it,

Attached are images of the gas bottle and top.. can anyone tell me what regulator will fit this bottle, do they even make them anymore?

All help greatly appreciated as i am trying to save myself the €60 for a new bottle.

http://tinypic.com/r/2w4mxp2/7

peasant

proponent wrote: »

can anyone tell me what regulator will fit this bottle, do they even make them anymore?

this kind, I think

Aidan_M_M

yup the good old standard one available in any hardware.

spaceHopper

There's a deposit on the bottles but most people foret an leave them in to the bring centers I got a camping caz bottle almost full for free ! Have it a as a back up. There were all kinds of bottles there. Take your self down to the local largis is bring center. I was at the ballyrogan one near carringmines in dublin.

alphabeat

any chance you could advise me ?

I would like to have a back up stove for my house
( portable , two ring )
which uses the standard calor gas yellow bottles .

in case of power cut etc.

is there anywhere in dublin that might sell them ?

thanks alot

*Kol*

Any camping store will sell you one and you can fit the regulator for the calor gas bottle to the end of the hose.

dereks

Hi,

I bouhgt a bottle of butane i think, bbq i got came with 37 mbar, i think i read i need 28 mbar, is that correct? If so do most hardware stores sell them? Having trouble finding one.
Thanks