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Sense in banning PVC windows in Planning permission

millriver

Hello all, Our palnning permission has a condition in it banning the use of PVC windows. A window company is telling us is 'almost' irrelevant and can be ignored, due to a multitude or factors. It is expected to be removed as a standard PP stipulation. Grounds for pending change are 1. initial purcahse cost, 2. maintainability 3. value from PVC as an insulation material.4. lack of policy to effectively control this. 5. non environmental aspects of other solutions such as oiling and treatement of wood 6. County specific treatment of this issue 7. the greens gone mad. The list goes on. Personally we have lived very well with uPVC for many years and are now sold on their uPVC triple glaze solution but still have this planning issue. Any experiences on how to deal with this.

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onq

sydthebeat wrote: »

a lot of recent development plans deal specifically with the issue of window material.

what i have seen generally is a restriction on the material choice in heritage towns, area of heritage, in town centres etc.

theres a lengthy thread about it here, on their ue in historical buildings, since 2004:
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=3267

Thanks Syd,

On the ball, as usual.

Y'know its funny, architects used to embrace new materials.

I suppose since all the hoi-polloi installed the cheap uPVC windows its not col to embrance them.
All this talk about embedded energy and re-usability seems to be doing the rounds now in this country.
All very well, but what the punter want's is affordable windows that keep in the heat and don't cause condensation.

I inspected an apartment building recently and saw a steady strema of condensate running out through a drain hole from a room with average levels of moisture vapour.
The window was ajar to vent the room at the same time - disaster: metal windows, not theremally broken at a guess and possibly not best of breed.
Still, it was only built within the last six years.

ONQ.

Mellor

onq wrote: »

I'd be a little wary of an impervious material like aluminium used to clad a material like timber that absorbs moisture.

ONQ.

Why?

sydthebeat

onq wrote: »

Why did this becoem an issue with your permission?

Does this follow a government guideline or a policy in the development plan?

Is there a white paper recommending this partisan view of PVC as a substance?

I'd be very interested to find out.

ONQ.

a lot of recent development plans deal specifically with the issue of window material.

what i have seen generally is a restriction on the material choice in heritage towns, area of heritage, in town centres etc.

theres a lengthy thread about it here, on their ue in historical buildings, since 2004:
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=3267

onq

millriver wrote: »

Hello all, Our palnning permission has a condition in it banning the use of PVC windows. <snip>

Why did this becoem an issue with your permission?

Does this follow a government guideline or a policy in the development plan?

Is there a white paper recommending this partisan view of PVC as a substance?

I'd be very interested to find out.

ONQ.

onq

markok84 wrote: »

Specify Timber windows, they last longer albeit with more maintenance, they look better and their embodied energy is about a third that of uPVC. Alternatively you could go for alu-clad timber frames if the maintenance issue is what's pushing you toward uPVC, though these don't look as good as timber framed.

Here's proof of the longevity of timber frames over uPVC
http://www.cibse.org/pdfs/Masif.pdf

I'd be a little wary of an impervious material like aluminium used to clad a material like timber that absorbs moisture.

ONQ.

One Cold Hand

millriver wrote: »

A window company is telling us is 'almost' irrelevant and can be ignored, due to a multitude or factors.

He's obviously going to say that! He wants you to buy his windows! If you ask a timber window manufacturer what they think they will tell you not to ignore the condition!

Mellor

The above two posts pretty much covered it all.

You can appeal, but you can't ignore the condition

sydthebeat

pvc windows look crap, they lack depth..

planning is all about how things look.

do as you have been conditioned to do, otherwise you are not building in compliance with conditions

Supertech

millriver wrote: »

Hello all, Our palnning permission has a condition in it banning the use of PVC windows. A window company is telling us is 'almost' irrelevant and can be ignored, due to a multitude or factors. It is expected to be removed as a standard PP stipulation. Grounds for pending change are 1. initial purcahse cost, 2. maintainability 3. value from PVC as an insulation material.4. lack of policy to effectively control this. 5. non environmental aspects of other solutions such as oiling and treatement of wood 6. County specific treatment of this issue 7. the greens gone mad. The list goes on. Personally we have lived very well with uPVC for many years and are now sold on their uPVC triple glaze solution but still have this planning issue. Any experiences on how to deal with this.

Don't take planning advice from a window sales company !! If it's conditioned, then it forms part of your planning permission which is a legal document. If you don't comply with all the conditions, you don't comply with the permission, and you may find yourself in difficulty if you ever try to sell the house. Whether it is about to be removed does not matter - if if it's a condition on your permission then it stays in your case. Where will the window sales people be if you have to apply for retention and are refused ? It's grossly unprofessional of them to suggest that a planning condition is 'almost irrelevant'

Secondly, most of the reasons being given for using pvc over timber are nonsense - this sounds like a company trying to force a sale !!

markok84

millriver wrote: »

...Any experiences on how to deal with this.

Specify Timber windows, they last longer albeit with more maintenance, they look better and their embodied energy is about a third that of uPVC. Alternatively you could go for alu-clad timber frames if the maintenance issue is what's pushing you toward uPVC, though these don't look as good as timber framed.

Here's proof of the longevity of timber frames over uPVC
http://www.cibse.org/pdfs/Masif.pdf