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Feral teenage gangs - what can be done to protect us?

gurramok

Last night on Ringsend Rd(between Pearse st and Ringsend bus garage) in Dublin I was in my apt at the back and I heard constant screaming from teenage kids at the front.

Now me thinking, they are noisy kids playing whatever they get up to and they always trot about while passing on the main road. I could hear girls screaming and fella's shouting, all about 15 yrs of age. This went on for a few minutes and when I finally went to look out the front window to see what the commotion was, i couldn't believe what I saw and heard. Squad cars lined up at the neighbours gate with the family next door at their gate in tears while a bunch of scum teenagers laughing and joking at them with about a dozen Gardai between the 2 sets.

From what I could make out especially from the teenagers mocking impersonations of a fight, punches were thrown from the teenagers at the father and kid(yeh, he's about 8). Now, whatever happened initially between the 2 groups over maybe words exchanged, there was no justification for a mob like that to pick on a father & mother & child huddled together with the father under severe distress while his wife and kid were balling with tears on the street.

I asked the neighbours afterwards what happened and they wouldn't say, I reckon they just want to move on and deal with it privately so i didn't pursue it. They were still crying over what happened. They are foreign(think Polish) so maybe their English was not great and they were probably still in shock. Very nice people, the last you'd think of who would of been involved in such an incident. It was such a sight to see the mother and child still crying about 30minutes afterwards when i did approach them, i'll never forget it and i''ve seen some nasty crap over the years while growing up in a deprived area.(yeh for the smart aleks i'm not really from D4 :P)

The Gardai(fair dues to them for being quick in response) moved the perpetrators on after a few words and they headed on their way towards Pearse St flats. No arrests though:mad:.

Thing is, do these kids have no moral awareness of what they just did?
I asked myself, was this a racist attack? If the family was Irish and local, would they not have been so persistent in picking on them?

It might seem fun to them having a few punches with a strangers family and bragging about it to each other but the damage they caused to that family is immense. Its not the first time i've seen teenagers up to no good picking on strangers, it makes you think how often this harassment goes on. I've seen security guards in shops locally been picked on by groups of teenagers 'for the fun of it' and co-incidentally all those security guards were foreign.

Vandalism along the busy road has occurred in the past few weeks, like bus shelters and panes of glass on the nearby bridge put in(there goes anyone else's safety as protective barrier on McMahon bridge is made of glass). Rumours from speaking to other neighbours was that it was passing teenagers doing the damage.

Should there be a law thats enforced restricting large groups of teenagers congregating at that hour of night(incident happened just after 9pm) like in the US or something else done to prevent teenagers harassing people?

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southsiderosie

So let me get this straight:

* Guards are understaffed
* No curfew
* No/few after-school programs
* No active parents - and especially no active fathers - in many of these homes

Therefore, there is no figure of authority at home, in school, or in the streets that could check anti-social behavior from kids. Something has to give here; at the point where people in a community are too terrified to tell 14 year old kids to keep it moving, you're ****ed.

A curfew might be a good start. The kids who aren't causing problems will be more likely to observe it, and the kids who are willing to break the law are the ones that the guards would be likely to have to deal with anyway. Plus if is the kind of curfew where you parents have to come get you and/or are fined, 2-3 months of strict enforcement at the outset might get the parents (even if they are deadbeats) to also help with enforcement if, for no other reason, to save themselves the bother of having to pay and/or go to the police station. So it may end up being only a short-term strain on the guards.

ScumLord

RonMexico wrote: »

I agree with some of what you are saying here but a lot of people are afraid to stand up to these kids as you can't lay a finger on them or you will be the one to end up in trouble and people are afraid that there house will be targeted afterwards. It is not much fun to have your car windows smashed, house windows smashed, car keyed, garden plants ripped up etc etc.

But that's where a good solid community would be able in unison, to run the kids off the estate and should anything happen the poor fellas they fell of their own accord and there's 200 witnesses here that will say the same thing.

People need to stop depending on the government for everything. It's not their fault your community in tatters. You can get so much done without them. Anything from playgrounds to securing your own town or area.

Bonito

southsiderosie wrote: »

So let me get this straight:

* Guards are understaffed
* No curfew
* No/few after-school programs
* No active parents - and especially no active fathers - in many of these homes

Therefore, there is no figure of authority at home, in school, or in the streets that could check anti-social behavior from kids. Something has to give here; at the point where people in a community are too terrified to tell 14 year old kids to keep it moving, you're ****ed.

A curfew might be a good start. The kids who aren't causing problems will be more likely to observe it, and the kids who are willing to break the law are the ones that the guards would be likely to have to deal with anyway. Plus if is the kind of curfew where you parents have to come get you and/or are fined, 2-3 months of strict enforcement at the outset might get the parents (even if they are deadbeats) to also help with enforcement if, for no other reason, to save themselves the bother of having to pay and/or go to the police station. So it may end up being only a short-term strain on the guards.

Haven't seen you post in a while Rosie how's things, your xmas go well?

Now to these pressing issues!

Curfew? YES
Guardaí should adopt a "take no guff" attitude, regardless of age? YES
Hefty fines for neglegent parents? YES
Reducing age punishable to full extent of law to 16? YES

Whoever condones behaviour displayed by these "thugs" should be slapped!

May we all pray that some day they'll all turn on each other and we'll be rid of the lot of them :rolleyes:

hooradiation

aDeener wrote: »

what do you think should be done oh enlightened one,:rolleyes:

It's been shown time and time again that better social programs and encouraging a better home have a better effect on anti-social behavior than any of this zero tolerance shit.

The problem is that they aren't instant and don't give the keyboard warriors of AH a chance to tell everyone how they should be allowed to beat/kill/sterilise anyone that they are afraid of.

Angry Troll

ScumLord wrote: »

But that's where a good solid community would be able in unison, to run the kids off the estate and should anything happen the poor fellas they fell of their own accord and there's 200 witnesses here that will say the same thing.

People need to stop depending on the government for everything. It's not their fault your community in tatters. You can get so much done without them. Anything from playgrounds to securing your own town or area.

that would be a good start for sure…once those kids are faced by a united community response and understand they can no longer pester people with impunity, that sort of antisocial behaviour stops pretty quickly…and then some things in society have to change to reduce the number of teenage gangs and all that...which would of course be more complex and long-term...the best short term solution will always be a group of unflinching community members with baseball bats…their mere presence should clear the area of teenage thugs in no time…

BraziliaNZ

just outside my window now a load of kids in pyjamas etc (presume from the flats around corner) were throwing snowballs at people waiting on LUAS, not sure entirely what happened but some knacker woman came out and started screaming her head off at a girl that works at a cafe near here, probably because she told them to stop, and then more and more flats people started gathering and wouldn't let her on the LUAS and started kicking and punching her and the guy who tried to protect her. This is right outside the bridewell too. Garda came eventually and broke it up. Jesus Christ though that was scary. The knacker woman was shouting that she wanted to press charges against the girl who was attacked for "assaul'in her youngfellit!"!!!
Poor girl was dragged off luas and in tears when garda came.

pickarooney

For once in a blue moon it snows - the lot of youse should be out in the streets engaging in one massive snowball fight stretching across the country.

Nevyn

meditraitor wrote: »

If the parents are scumbags then almost invariably the offspring will be little scumbags,
But there are other reasons for scumbag kids, bad parents are not always scumbags just bad parents with problems that keep them from giving the kids the upbringing they need. Respect and honesty for a start.

Most of the little scumbags I know are from broken homes, children of people with mental/drink/drug problems and of course scumbag parents....

The answer to this is ................................................

Mandatory free contraceptives for male and females and you have to do a parenting course and pay a 100 quid to get the antidote and try for a child.

Mossy Monk

This **** has been going on for years. Nothing has changed.

Jumpy

pickarooney wrote: »

For once in a blue moon it snows - the lot of youse should be out in the streets engaging in one massive snowball fight stretching across the country.

*pulls out gun*

Promac

hooradiation wrote: »

oh please, this whole "ZOMG TEENAGERS ARE OUT OF CONTROL" bullshit is as old as time itself.

for example

You're just getting old and crotchety OP, your rocking chair and sanctioned list of "things what were better when i were a lad" have been sent to you and will arrive shortly.

Your counter-argument is just as old and does nothing but allow the problem to continue.

It's a real problem encountered by anyone who lives anywhere near a block of flats in this country. The surrounding area becomes a lawless kip that no-one wants to live anywhere near.

Promac

j1974 wrote: »

yes you are being naive and abit silly. fact is, they then know where you live, you could be replacing your front windows regularly in this case, or putting out your car. ive seen this happen al too frequently in finglas with scumbags. the major problem is that these are second generation scumbags, the father (if he can be found) and mother, are also scumbags and therefor have little empathy for others. they're just glad to have their dole and loan parents etc. it all come down to breeding in my book. I dont know what the row was about, but if you think that cos you've a flat dublin accent, they might fear you, you're sadly mistaken. Once you start woth these guys, you have to be prepared to go all the way, go outside and clatter the head off the biggest one or two of them and follow through on any subsequent threats you issue, they only understnad, force, violence and fear. If you have none of these in yards, then best just offer a kind ear and any other support to your neighbour, once the smoke clears.

Well said.

wuzzik

kraggy wrote: »

Ireland's gone to ****.

If I were in government, I'd have it that 16 year olds and younger have to be accompanied outside by an adult after 9pm. If not, slap a big fine on the parents.

Once money comes into things, parents aren't long copping on.

I'm really beginning to hate Ireland. The amount of scum in our country is worse than Britain at this stage. I've lived there. It's not as bad as Ireland.

Not all teens are like this so why punish all of them. I had 15 of my daughters friends at my house last night and they were no bother at all. Parents teach their kids how to behave in public. I fully support doing something about the riff raff but leave the good Kids alone. If we penalise them all there is no incentive for them to behave well.

aDeener

hooradiation wrote: »

It's been shown time and time again that better social programs and encouraging a better home have a better effect on anti-social behavior than any of this zero tolerance shit.

The problem is that they aren't instant and don't give the keyboard warriors of AH a chance to tell everyone how they should be allowed to beat/kill/sterilise anyone that they are afraid of.

"encouraging a better home" im sorry but that is hilarious, 1. how does one encourage a better home? 2. You think they are going to listen?

where has this been shown can you tell me? i can tell you what there was sweet fcuk all people breaking windows of houses and roaring verbal abuse/intimidating strangers on the street when there was "zero tolerance ****" i speak for my own area which has since become a shithole/ breeeding ground for these people you want "social programs" for. dear me

Milky Moo

The exclamations of the youth of today being wild has been going on for decades.
If it was true society would have crumbled by now with the feral youth becoming adults and not being able to handle things.

I do believe that the feral youth of yesterday are the reason we have the scumbags of today.
However there are some reallly great kids out there that are respectful and good mannered and will do just fine and grow up into capable adults.
This has always been the way. It just seems the bad element are getting more brazen.

gazzer

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

just outside my window now a load of kids in pyjamas etc (presume from the flats around corner) were throwing snowballs .

Says it all really. Brain dead scummers. I mean who the fcuk comes out wearing PJs in the snow?

Mike 1972

Ordinary man wrote: »

I believe any law breakers should lose all entitlements to dole etc for life. .

Show me someone who reckons theyve never broken any laws and Ill show you a self deluded hypocrite.

Magnus wrote: »

The Chinese have one thing right - licence for children.
Have more than 2 and you get a bullet.
They don't behave - bullet.
Speak without raising their hand - bullet.

Source ?

aDeener

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Show me someone who reckons theyve never broken any laws and Ill show you a self deluded hypocrite.

The ordinary man doesn't break the law :pac:

southsiderosie

Bonito wrote: »

Haven't seen you post in a while Rosie how's things, your xmas go well?

Now to these pressing issues!

Curfew? YES
Guardaí should adopt a "take no guff" attitude, regardless of age? YES
Hefty fines for neglegent parents? YES
Reducing age punishable to full extent of law to 16? YES

Whoever condones behaviour displayed by these "thugs" should be slapped!

May we all pray that some day they'll all turn on each other and we'll be rid of the lot of them :rolleyes:

Eh, I'm generally on board, but not so sure about the 16 year old treated as an adult in the judicial system thing. The criminalization of children in the US hasn't reduced crime, it's just turned kids into professional criminals at an even younger age, or saddled kids with a criminal record for life just for being stupid teenagers. I think part of the logic behind a curfew is that you are telling both the kids and the parents that if you are 14 you are still a child, and should not be out running the streets like you are an adult. But when the age of punishment drops, you're effectively telling kids that they are adults.

And, yes, I haven't been swimming around in AH much...but Christmas was great except for the giant ice storms...the one good thing is that horrible cold = less hoodlums...not much loitering when it's -4 and snowing...maybe if Chicago were that cold all of the time we wouldn't have 500+ murders a year.

Dudess

Who here actually lives in a community where they have to put up with significant intimidation from "feral" teenage gangs on a continuous basis? Encountering them in town the odd time before you head off home to a neighbourhood of zero anti-social behaviour doesn't count.

OP, I lived in that very same area of Dublin, and really, you're in no position to be worrying about who'll protect "us".

tedstriker

I was punched in the face at the Sandymount luas stop about 3 weeks ago by some teenager for no apparent reason. Had to wait 8 hours to get 3 stitches, great fun. The kid must have been wearing the finest argos gay-partner-for-life ring or had a key or something to leave the gash he did on my face from a not particularly hard whack. He wasn't provoked, he wanted money for the Luas and I said no. Sandymount is a nice area so that shouldn't really happen there but it did and it does.
I was told by the security that the late nights on the Luas at christmas were greatly reduced compared to last year because of all the late night trouble. The guards who were called patrol the Luas line constantly and they told me that it was common place. I live in the city centre and have done for around 4 years now and never had anything like that happen to me there.
Anti-social is the wrong term because kids like this think this IS being social. It was part of his night out and it is part of the night out for plenty of kids. If you want to encourage kids to do good then there are a million things that need to be done in order to get to that position. They/we are a product of our surroundings and if there are many elements of disorder around us we will see this as the norm. I am a fan of the "broken window" theory.
The gardai don't tackle this sort of low level crime too much because it is tough to get any results and also there seems to be a slightly habitual resentment of the public by the gardai which is another issue altogether. It is time the Gardai tackled the smaller crimes with more enthusiasm and as a result you would find people in this society would feel safer. The government of course also need to ensure that the laws are there to allow good policing... not so long ago you could beg legally in this country, not that it makes a difference now the laws were changed.

dolliemix

tedstriker wrote: »

I was punched in the face at the Sandymount luas stop about 3 weeks ago by some teenager for no apparent reason. Had to wait 8 hours to get 3 stitches, great fun. The kid must have been wearing the finest argos gay-partner-for-life ring or had a key or something to leave the gash he did on my face from a not particularly hard whack. He wasn't provoked, he wanted money for the Luas and I said no. Sandymount is a nice area so that shouldn't really happen there but it did and it does.
I was told by the security that the late nights on the Luas at christmas were greatly reduced compared to last year because of all the late night trouble. The guards who were called patrol the Luas line constantly and they told me that it was common place. I live in the city centre and have done for around 4 years now and never had anything like that happen to me there.
Anti-social is the wrong term because kids like this think this IS being social. It was part of his night out and it is part of the night out for plenty of kids. If you want to encourage kids to do good then there are a million things that need to be done in order to get to that position. They/we are a product of our surroundings and if there are many elements of disorder around us we will see this as the norm. I am a fan of the "broken window" theory.
The gardai don't tackle this sort of low level crime too much because it is tough to get any results and also there seems to be a slightly habitual resentment of the public by the gardai which is another issue altogether. It is time the Gardai tackled the smaller crimes with more enthusiasm and as a result you would find people in this society would feel safer. The government of course also need to ensure that the laws are there to allow good policing... not so long ago you could beg legally in this country, not that it makes a difference now the laws were changed.

Do you mean Sandymount Dart station? Or Sandyford Luas?

Thats awful that happened. Just wondering cos my parents live near the sandyford luas station

tedstriker

dolliemix wrote: »

Do you mean Sandymount Dart station? Or Sandyford Luas?

Thats awful that happened. Just wondering cos my parents live near the sandyford luas station

Sorry, yeah I mean Sandyford Luas.

It's bad it happened but to be honest my first reaction was to laugh. They guy was a whimp, he just ran off. I didn't even know I was bleeding until I got on the Luas. I'm still not at all upset really by it. He'll do it to the wrong guy some day and end up in A&E himself. It could have been much worse anyway.

Scrambled egg

I for one would support the idea of work camps for them, caught acting the bollix 3 times, off you go, 6 months labor making tables and chairs or something, might even teach them a trade or something useful.

aDeener

Dudess wrote: »

Who here actually lives in a community where they have to put up with significant intimidation from "feral" teenage gangs on a continuous basis? Encountering them in town the odd time before you head off home to a neighbourhood of zero anti-social behaviour doesn't count.

OP, I lived in that very same area of Dublin, and really, you're in no position to be worrying about who'll protect "us".

define significant? im sorry but that is ridiculous to suggest that having to put up with scumbags "the odd time" doesnt count. why should someone have to put up with them when they are in town - whatever town that might be.
theres a nest of travellers down the road from me who really are scum in everything they do, so yeah i have to put up with them most days. is that significant enough? :rolleyes:

jumpguy

As a teenager myself, I'd like to say that the scumbags are usually in a minority (in my area anyway). The problem is, they're the crowd who're always hanging around the place doing nothing. The devil plays on an idle mind, I suppose. Anyway, these scumbags cause trouble, and the next thing you have people roaring about teens and how evil we are. It's ageism as it's prime tbh. Us teenagers are just as bothered and annoyed by the scumbags as the general population is.

One of the most disappointing things I heard recently was last year at a carnival. A father was bringing his little girl into the carnival and she burst into tears and said "oh noooo! There's teenagers!"

bikeblues

tedstriker wrote: »

Sorry, yeah I mean Sandyford Luas.

It's bad it happened but to be honest my first reaction was to laugh. They guy was a whimp, he just ran off. I didn't even know I was bleeding until I got on the Luas. I'm still not at all upset really by it. He'll do it to the wrong guy some day and end up in A&E himself. .

please god let it be me

anyway

I blame Hitler ......... for fecking up a perfectly good solution .

Havermeyer

Round them up and put them in chain gangs. We would have a very clean country, in fairness. There's enough of the scumbags to go round.

And when they get too weak to work we should put them down, and charge their families for the bullet. Might make parents who breed these little ****s think twice about rearing scumbags that simply terrorise people, because they think it's funny.

blogga

Morning after pill free and delivered daily to breeding grounds. Will solve the long term problem.

bernardo mac

Lock them up in the most basic and secure accommodation until someone comes to claim them.The Gardai should have the power of authority to decide if the youths are a danger to others and themselves.Fines,constructive and quite punitive work detail to follow.:mad: