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help needed for website

pog it

Hey all,,

Would really appreciate any pointers on what I need to do to get a new web business set up.. everything down to server. I will be selling numerous items and will definitely need some sort of way people can pay for goods through the site.. I do use paypal and would be quite happy with that as the method, but is there another method I should offer and is this all supplied by the company supplying the server/ doing the hosting?
As in do you have much flexibility when setting this up as to what shopping system you incorporate?

I have heard Blacknight are good for web hosting -- any other suggestions?

I'd like to have a log-in user account available for customers, and also a way to email in via the site with any queries they may have on what I'm selling. Also I need a really professional easy to navigate kind of design.. really attractive with fast download of images or whatever it takes to facilitate fast download on the part of the user.

Do people stick with the webhost and get them to work on the design,or do you get someone to come along afterwards with the design and therefore any Webhosting company would be ok? I'm guessing I will need to get a designer to make the site. If do will I wait and let them go with their choice of web hosting company like the aforementioned??

Sorry I am entirely thick with regards this stuff but I am at the beginning stages.

Many thanks for any help little or large.

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Seth Brundle

You will have a number of things to keep the business online:

Domain Name, your can register with someone like godaddy or via your host. Make sure you are the contact for it though.

Hosting - many provice this service such as Blacknight, H365, Digiweb, etc. Generally they don't do design. You won't need a big hosting a/c just yet but check with your chosen host that you can easily migrate onto another package should the need arise.

Site Design and development. The design will be dependent on what it is that you are selling. There are various pre-bult cart applications that can be customised. What exactly are you after? Whats your budget? What kind of sales are you expecting as maybe another form of payment processer would be appropriate?

Ongoing maintenance & development: will you be requiring ongoing redesigns etc?

Search Engine Optimisation: will this be part of the initial design busget? How much are you planning on investing on an ongoing basis?

Good luck anyhow.

cormee

pog it wrote: »

Hey all,,

Would really appreciate any pointers on what I need to do to get a new web business set up.. everything down to server. I will be selling numerous items and will definitely need some sort of way people can pay for goods through the site.. I do use paypal and would be quite happy with that as the method, but is there another method I should offer and is this all supplied by the company supplying the server/ doing the hosting?
As in do you have much flexibility when setting this up as to what shopping system you incorporate?

I have heard Blacknight are good for web hosting -- any other suggestions?

I'd like to have a log-in user account available for customers, and also a way to email in via the site with any queries they may have on what I'm selling. Also I need a really professional easy to navigate kind of design.. really attractive with fast download of images or whatever it takes to facilitate fast download on the part of the user.

Do people stick with the webhost and get them to work on the design,or do you get someone to come along afterwards with the design and therefore any Webhosting company would be ok? I'm guessing I will need to get a designer to make the site. If do will I wait and let them go with their choice of web hosting company like the aforementioned??

Sorry I am entirely thick with regards this stuff but I am at the beginning stages.

Many thanks for any help little or large.

If you're serious about the project you should talk to a full-time designer or design/web agency, getting advice on a forum like this for such a big project is really not a good idea.

HandWS LTD

Advice on a forum like this can sometimes help if you are lost. The information above will help you before you go to a web hosting/design company for advice or for a service you require. Some companies can provide one or the other, while others can provide the whole lot.

The design/hosting/seo/maintenance services should be asked to every company you contact, so you can see who provides the best solution to match your needs. You do not need to go with one particular company. It can be a one or more....most people like to stick with one.

ScumLord

cormee wrote: »

If you're serious about the project you should talk to a full-time designer or design/web agency, getting advice on a forum like this for such a big project is really not a good idea.

That's such nonsense, I'm actually hurt.

The first thing you'll have to do is sacrifice a live chicken to the god of electricity...... :pac:

There are websites out there that you can pay a monthly subscription to and they'll host a shop for you. Something like http://www.ashop.com.au/ all you need to do is enter your paypal details and the product details and your away.

cormee

ScumLord wrote: »

That's such nonsense, I'm actually hurt.

Wait - someone wants to set up an ecommerce site and needs information on 'everything down to server' - you think me advising them to talk to a professional rather than posting questions on a forum is nonsense??

eh...ok..............

HelloJellyFish

cormee wrote: »

Wait - someone wants to set up an ecommerce site and needs information on 'everything down to server' - you think me advising them to talk to a professional rather than posting questions on a forum is nonsense??

eh...ok..............

.....Yeah, I also think so, if he has more than 2 brain cells he can DIY it, simple's!!!!

TitoPuente

HelloJellyFish wrote: »

.....Yeah, I also think so, if he has more than 2 brain cells he can DIY it, simple's!!!!

Terrible advice. To build a successful eCommerce site from the ground up takes years of experience and a multitude of skill sets. That's if you're serious about actually selling anything online. A lot needs to be taken into account:

Information Architecture.
Interface design.
User Experience.
Responsible front end development, Web standards, accessibility, cross-browser compatibility etc.
Can an off-the-shelf eCommerce system (e.g. Magento) be used or does a tailored back end system need to be built? If it's the latter, a strong developer will need to do this.
Scalability.
Security.
SEO.
Ongoing maintenance.

There are loads of other things to be considered, I won't go into them all here. Suffice to say that to do them all to a professional standard and create a successful eCommerce site requires a lot of knowledge and talent.

Honestly... the race-to-the-bottom attitude surrounding Web design these days is shocking. For every successful DIY eCommerce site, there are scores of complete failures. And no disrespect HelloJellyFish, but you don't sound anywhere near qualified to be giving advice.

OP - if you believe in your business and you want to sell successfully online then speak to someone who knows what they're talking about. It won't cost you anything to meet up with them for a chat about your plans and you'll get some good advice. It won't be cheap to get the best people on the job so try and define a budget for the job in advance. Ultimately you'll get a good return on your investment by listening to people who know their stuff.

PM me if you need any advice or recommendations.

HelloJellyFish

TitoPuente wrote: »

Terrible advice. To build a successful eCommerce site from the ground up takes years of experience and a multitude of skill sets. That's if you're serious about actually selling anything online. A lot needs to be taken into account:
Information Architecture.

Interface design.

User Experience.

Responsible front end development, Web standards, accessibility, cross-browser compatibility etc.

Can an off-the-shelf eCommerce system (e.g. Magento) be used or does a tailored back end system need to be built? If it's the latter, a strong developer will need to do this.

Scalability.

Security.

SEO.

Ongoing maintenance.

There are loads of other things to be considered, I won't go into them all here. Suffice to say that to do them all to a professional standard and create a successful eCommerce site requires a lot of knowledge and talent.

Honestly... the race-to-the-bottom attitude surrounding Web design these days is shocking. For every successful DIY eCommerce site, there are scores of complete failures. And no disrespect HelloJellyFish, but you don't sound anywhere near qualified to be giving advice.

OP - if you believe in your business and you want to sell successfully online then speak to someone who knows what they're talking about. It won't cost you anything to meet up with them for a chat about your plans and you'll get some good advice. It won't be cheap to get the best people on the job so try and define a budget for the job in advance. Ultimately you'll get a good return on your investment by listening to people who know their stuff.

PM me if you need any advice or recommendations.

Sure, I might have been a bit ignorant, you put your point over well TitoPuente....:D:D

I have just found that for most start up sites, it is best to teach yourself as much as possible and not just leave it all in the hands of a so called pro. Most pro's have no idea what they are doing anyway and with the diverse range of quotes you get for starting a site. It is very difficult for anybody to make a informed decision if they do not get to know the business themselves. By posting on boards and giving the DIY option(free hosting) a go, they will soon see where they want to take it and can then get help with the parts they have a lack of knowledge of.

Most basic eCommerce is easy to set-up yourself, SEO and advertise. It does get complicated if you want to add shopping carts, coupons, flash, widgets, database, Java, script and the rest. I just do not see the logic of any big investment/cost if he just started out. It also depends on his product, if he just want to sell T-shirts, he can do it himself.....:D

If you look at just Godaddy, you will see they offer everything even Search Engine Visualisation, SEO, marketing, eCommerce and the rest for the beginner, like me.

I think it all boils down to how big he wants to go and what he wants to sell and how much of his own time he wants to put into the web site.

My point is just, watch out for all the so called pro's and do your homework before you part with your cash for anything you want done on the net.

Nobrow

My client-senses are tingling, and tell me that your expectations are too high ... As ppl have said, its a huge job you are talking about. A really slick professional looking static website would probably eat up your entire budget, nevermind adding dynamic elements and shopping carts.

What are you planning on selling? Perhaps we can point you to a suitable existing site which will host your products for a small fee. Then when you've made €50k you can use that to start getting your site designed!

TitoPuente

HelloJellyFish wrote: »

I have just found that for most start up sites, it is best to teach yourself as much as possible and not just leave it all in the hands of a so called pro. Most pro's have no idea what they are doing anyway and with the diverse range of quotes you get for starting a site.

I'd agree, most so-called 'professionals' in Ireland are utterly clueless and incompetent. The DIY approach may allow you to keep costs down and circumvent being ripped-off by a cowboy but ultimately it will result in failure in most cases. This is simply the way things are.

HelloJellyFish wrote: »

It is very difficult for anybody to make a informed decision if they do not get to know the business themselves.

I'd agree that it's very difficult for an uninitiated client to make a good decision when choosing a Web agency unless they know what to look out for and what to avoid. This is why there are so many talentless cowboys and snake oil salesmen in the industry. It's unfortunate but we're in a lemon industry where clients simply don't recognise quality when they see it and this perpetuates the problem.

HelloJellyFish wrote: »

By posting on boards and giving the DIY option(free hosting) a go, they will soon see where they want to take it and can then get help with the parts they have a lack of knowledge of.

Yeah, I'm not saying that the DIY approach shouldn't be attempted. It's certainly a very good way to get a working knowledge of Web design and development. I'm just saying that doing it yourself will result in a bit of a horror show of a website and shouldn't be considered as a long term business solution if you're looking for big returns. As for getting help with the 'parts they have a lack of knowledge of'. Well it strikes me that any non-Web person that does a DIY job isn't going to have a clue about any facet of the industry (in general). 1) Help/advice from seasoned professionals costs money and 2) very few real professionals would touch a project that was mostly done by an inexperienced businessman trying to do it himself.

HelloJellyFish wrote: »

My point is just, watch out for all the so called pro's and do your homework before you part with your cash for anything you want done on the net.

I would also warn against commissioning a cowboy to design and develop an eCommerce site for you obviously. At the end of the day though, a lot of the time you'll get what you pay for in terms of a quality website, good advice and good return on your investment. Think about speaking to reputed agencies with a good track record such and talented, knowledgeable staff such as Metronet, The Creative District or Contrast.

HelloJellyFish

Sure, we agree, what else can I say......:D:D

cormee

HelloJellyFish wrote: »

Sure, I might have been a bit ignorant, you put your point over well TitoPuente....:D:D

I have just found that for most start up sites, it is best to teach yourself as much as possible and not just leave it all in the hands of a so called pro. Most pro's have no idea what they are doing anyway and with the diverse range of quotes you get for starting a site. It is very difficult for anybody to make a informed decision if they do not get to know the business themselves. By posting on boards and giving the DIY option(free hosting) a go, they will soon see where they want to take it and can then get help with the parts they have a lack of knowledge of.

Most basic eCommerce is easy to set-up yourself, SEO and advertise. It does get complicated if you want to add shopping carts, coupons, flash, widgets, database, Java, script and the rest. I just do not see the logic of any big investment/cost if he just started out. It also depends on his product, if he just want to sell T-shirts, he can do it himself.....:D

If you look at just Godaddy, you will see they offer everything even Search Engine Visualisation, SEO, marketing, eCommerce and the rest for the beginner, like me.

I think it all boils down to how big he wants to go and what he wants to sell and how much of his own time he wants to put into the web site.

My point is just, watch out for all the so called pro's and do your homework before you part with your cash for anything you want done on the net.

The word 'pro' is a problem for you - forget your own personal definition of the word and replace it with the accepted definition which implies that the pro will do a professional job. So let's not confuse someone who thinks they can build a website with someone who can provide you with a professional web solution.

Nowhere in any product development process, regardless of whether it's online or not, is it advisable to be guided by the opinions of others whose expertise is in no way guaranteed. You admit you're a beginner and yet you're handing out advice to OP. The only point of merit you seem to offer with any of your suggestions is that it is free or easy to install.

This sort of advice is going to confuse OP, he's going to think what you are offering him is an acceptable solution, when it's not. I'm not going to go into the specific details of the limitations of these free offerings as it's too broad a subject, you'll encounter them yourself if you choose that option and then try extend/develop it further.

These short-term savings you are suggesting will cost OP in the long-term. Your suggestions offer a way of getting an amateur site that has very little chance of surviving online, and little else.

If OP is serious about his project and has no web design/development/marketing experience the only element of it he should be taking on himself is finding professionals to do the work for him and overseeing the project.

HelloJellyFish

cormee wrote: »

The word 'pro' is a problem for you - forget your own personal definition of the word and replace it with the accepted definition which implies that the pro will do a professional job. So let's not confuse someone who thinks they can build a website with someone who can provide you with a professional web solution.

Your words is exactly my point, to provide a professional web solution is not as clear as many pro's imply it to be.

Nowhere in any product development process, regardless of whether it's online or not, is it advisable to be guided by the opinions of others whose expertise is in no way guaranteed. You admit you're a beginner and yet you're handing out advice to OP. The only point of merit you seem to offer with any of your suggestions is that it is free or easy to install.

Nowhere did I say it is free or that easy, but if anything was easy nobody would ask advice. But it is surely not that difficult to get to know as people make out it to be.

This sort of advice is going to confuse OP, he's going to think what you are offering him is an acceptable solution, when it's not. I'm not going to go into the specific details of the limitations of these free offerings as it's too broad a subject, you'll encounter them yourself if you choose that option and then try extend/develop it further.

so what you are saying is that there are free options???

These short-term savings you are suggesting will cost OP in the long-term. Your suggestions offer a way of getting an amateur site that has very little chance of surviving online, and little else.

Any person who start out will be a amateur and then grow, same way you started.

If OP is serious about his project and has no web design/development/marketing experience the only element of it he should be taking on himself is finding professionals to do the work for him and overseeing the project.

How can he oversee the project if he has no idea of what he can get or do, my advise to him is just simple to do what he is doing, get info, ask questions, get to know the 'pro' he will use to get this set up and not to be taken to the cleaners.

Nothing more and nothing less.

TitoPuente

HelloJellyFish wrote: »

But it is surely not that difficult to get to know as people make out it to be.

I have a degree in computer science and I've been developing websites for 12 years and I still have a hell of a lot to learn. So yes, to do a professional job is as difficult as it's made out to be. To do a half assed, amateur job is easy.

You admit yourself that you're a beginner. Do you have any expertise setting up and running successful eCommerce sites? If not, do you reckon it's a good idea for you to be giving the OP advice at all?

As I said earlier, the DIY approach might be a good way to understand the inner workings of putting a website together but it's bad news if you actually want to build a successful site... unless you're one of those very few people who are incredibly naturally talented and clever.

HelloJellyFish

TitoPuente wrote: »

I have a degree in computer science and I've been developing websites for 12 years and I still have a hell of a lot to learn. So yes, to do a professional job is as difficult as it's made out to be. To do a half assed, amateur job is easy.

You admit yourself that you're a beginner. Do you have any expertise setting up and running successful eCommerce sites? If not, do you reckon it's a good idea for you to be giving the OP advice at all?

As I said earlier, the DIY approach might be a good way to understand the inner workings of putting a website together but it's bad news if you actually want to build a successful site... unless you're one of those very few people who are incredibly naturally talented and clever.

Hi Mate,

I agree with everything you say, sure if OP is a large company or somebody who has 10k or 20k he wants to invest into getting a site like Argos or what ever big company set up, he might need somebody with a degree and 12 years experience to set it up and a team to run it.

If he is a normal one man show who has a small shop, florist, T-shirts, wine or what ever to sell, he does not have to break the bank just to get a site on the net.

i just say that it is not as simple, if I have more info of what he wants to do, I can give a more to the point view. But with what he has said in the fisrt post it sounds like he his looking for a simple and cheap option.

For me simple and cheap is DIY and time. I have no degree and are not a pro, but sure I can take any pro on with a simple 20 to 50 product eCom web site. That will include all the tools most people never use. Your most important is to SEO it well and keep the site simple, to the point and focused.

RawShark

Never mind 20 grand, I'll build it for 2 grand. Hosting included. Here's my portfolio of work - http://www.altfire.ie/main/html/portfolio.php - mail me if interested.

HelloJellyFish

RawShark wrote: »

Never mind 20 grand, I'll build it for 2 grand. Hosting included. Here's my portfolio of work - http://www.altfire.ie/main/html/portfolio.php - mail me if interested.

ha ha ha.....nice one rawSharik, good reply!!!

cormee

HelloJellyFish wrote: »

Your words is exactly my point, to provide a professional web solution is not as clear as many pro's imply it to be.

Nowhere did I say it is free or that easy, but if anything was easy nobody would ask advice.

Yes you did:

".....Yeah, I also think so, if he has more than 2 brain cells he can DIY it, simple's!!!!"

"Most basic eCommerce is easy to set-up yourself, SEO and advertise."

HelloJellyFish wrote: »

But it is surely not that difficult to get to know as people make out it to be.

What? You mean creating/installing the script, customising it, installing and running the database, doing all associated graphics work (which obviously requires knowledge of image editing software such as Photoshop or Illustrator), knowing how to SEO the software, creating, say, semantic URLs, editing your php.ini file, your .htaccess, setting up cron jobs, knowing where to locate the server, the differences in server types, server/site admin.... nah, it's simple as pie.

HelloJellyFish wrote: »

so what you are saying is that there are free options???

I don't understand this question

HelloJellyFish wrote: »

Any person who start out will be a amateur and then grow, same way you started.

He's looking to open a shop, not become a web designer.

HelloJellyFish wrote: »

How can he oversee the project if he has no idea of what he can get or do, my advise to him is just simple to do what he is doing, get info, ask questions, get to know the 'pro' he will use to get this set up and not to be taken to the cleaners.

I mean oversee from the point of view of being able to say "I want to be able to add weekly specials, make it happen for me" etc, I'm not suggesting he runs each page through the w3c xhtml validator

RawShark

My offer stands. Complete site design, implementation and hosting for 2 grand. Annual renewal fee of 150 euro. Result will be something http://www.funandfrolics.ie or http://www.epuniforms.com

Anyone who charges 10 or 20 grand for work like this is taking the p*ss, seriously. It's not that hard to build such a site. The REAL work is populating the damn thing, which the user can do themselves once the site is online.

Seth Brundle

RawShark wrote: »

Never mind 20 grand, I'll build it for 2 grand. Hosting included. Here's my portfolio of work - http://www.altfire.ie/main/html/portfolio.php - mail me if interested.

Original & interesting concept in not having a business name at the top of each page!

HelloJellyFish

RawShark wrote: »

My offer stands. Complete site design, implementation and hosting for 2 grand. Annual renewal fee of 150 euro. Result will be something http://www.funandfrolics.ie or http://www.epuniforms.com

Anyone who charges 10 or 20 grand for work like this is taking the p*ss, seriously. It's not that hard to build such a site. The REAL work is populating the damn thing, which the user can do themselves once the site is online.

I think you have the idea of what he is looking for anyway, simple and to the point. You are 110% right, the REAL work is populating the site, getting the traffic and getting it exposed.

What? You mean creating/installing the script, customising it, installing and running the database, doing all associated graphics work (which obviously requires knowledge of image editing software such as Photoshop or Illustrator), knowing how to SEO the software, creating, say, semantic URLs, editing your php.ini file, your .htaccess, setting up cron jobs, knowing where to locate the server, the differences in server types, server/site admin.... nah, it's simple as pie.

This can all be done reasonably cheap if he knows where to look for it and teaching himself the basics of running a database, image editing is as simple as pie, SEO can be tricky(tons of info on the net on this), editing your php.ini file, your .htaccess, setting up cron jobs(need a pro) and knowing where to locate the server, the differences in server types, server/site admin is easy as pie.

TitoPuente

The Web industry isn't even racing to the bottom anymore. It's already there.

Pixelcraft

The real work is converting traffic to sales by gaining quality traffic & using intuitive design. If you don't understand that, you're in the wrong business.

What some of you are talking about is site administration, nothing at all to do with design or converting leads.

HelloJellyFish

Pixelcraft wrote: »

The real work is converting traffic to sales by gaining quality traffic & using intuitive design. If you don't understand that, you're in the wrong business.

What some of you are talking about is site administration, nothing at all to do with design or converting leads.

I agree 100%

cormee

HelloJellyFish wrote: »

I have no degree and are not a pro, but sure I can take any pro on with a simple 20 to 50 product eCom web site.

No. What you might be able to do is install osCommerce and maybe install some free plugins or themes.

If you think that's comparable to a custom designed solution you're in the wrong business.

cormee

Pixelcraft wrote: »

The real work is converting traffic to sales by gaining quality traffic & using intuitive design. If you don't understand that, you're in the wrong business.

What some of you are talking about is site administration, nothing at all to do with design or converting leads.

Site admin is a major part of any design

Pixelcraft

No, it's not. Are you talking about the administration section of a site? If so you've misunderstood my point.

HelloJellyFish

cormee wrote: »

No. What you might be able to do is install osCommerce and maybe install some free plugins or themes.

If you think that's comparable to a custom designed solution you're in the wrong business.

Ok, clearly I am upsetting some "pro's" and are not one myself, so let me just leave it at this. If OP gets back and post what he want and need, I might give my view.

I am just not in the mood for a massive mud slinging match. Sure you get designers that is good at what they do and can design nice and effective web sites, but it is not that black and white as people make it out to be.

I am not offering to do it for him, it is just a personal view. I for one will never say I am good at it, but I am capable of doing my own. For me it is just a hobby that started years ago. I remember the days that most common programming language was Basic, lotus 123 and Pascal and the PC's was the green screen Apple Macintosh. Since then things has become more user friendly and easy to use
yourself. If he is into getting to know the business it will do no harm if he put some self study into it.

Well, this is my last post, I have no time to sit on a forum all day and reply to posts, I have things to do and customers to look after.

cormee

Pixelcraft wrote: »

No, it's not. Are you talking about the administration section of a site? If so you've misunderstood my point.

Yes, the administration section. However I also mean ongoing maintenance, ie. being able to click a button that says 'Backup database' in your control panel instead of logging in to phpMyAdmin and doing it all manually. A site should be designed so it can be easily maintained.

Pixelcraft

cormee wrote: »

Yes, the administration section. However I also mean ongoing maintenance, ie. being able to click a button that says 'Backup database' in your control panel instead of logging in to phpMyAdmin and doing it all manually. A site should be designed so it can be easily maintained.

Of course - but unless you're building an e-commerce system from scratch most of this is already taken care of. In any case, that has nothing to do with having a user friendly shopping experience.