truthisfree wrote: » Quit putting words in my mouth! I have never stated that this building was not important to many people, everyone knows it was important to a lot of people.
truthisfree wrote: » So what is my agenda, I know what yours is, evangelism, selling your own brand of Christianity, I defend your right to do this but you know full well that you can never sell a lie to me.
truthisfree wrote: » I can see 100% can see why people would be upset over this building, but there was no loss of life, no injury whatsoever.
truthisfree wrote: » I can understand a sentimental attachment to the building for the people who attended there frequently. I cannot for a second see anything in this incident that will make people question their beliefs in Catholicism, God or the afterlife, why would it?
truthisfree wrote: » It will be re-built, maybe, I am not as sure as I was but I would like to see it used again, personally I think it would serve better as something other than a church, people may well disagree and they are entitled to more than I am as they will be prepared to fund it.
truthisfree wrote: » As regards any agenda I may have, I feel I am objective, the negative reaction to anyone wondering whether there is a link with an aggrieved victim of the churches abuse is a normal reaction to an incident such as this. I will repeat as I have had to do many many times, I do not believe that this was arson, I would think that faulty wiring or whatever caused it, but I also could be wrong, I know little or nothing about forensics.
Jakkass wrote: » Perhaps you should allow people to discuss the actual damage to the building rather than discussing child abuse which is off topic? What's my brand of Christianity? More importantly, where have I proselytised in this thread? As for claiming that it is a "lie" this is further showing your agenda to attack Catholicism rather than dealing with the actual subject. A cathedral burning. If you read my original post, I posted on this thread to offer my sympathies to the people of Longford, especially those who are a part of the Roman Catholic community there. How about showing a bit of sympathy then rather than bringing child abuse into it? Why would a burning cathedral cause people to question their faith? If people choose to believe that is their own prerogative. This is your agenda. People in Longford choose out of their own will to believe, if that is their choice, it is only right and proper that they should have a place to worship even in a secular society. Your agenda is to bring child abuse into the situation. From reading elsewhere your agenda also seems to be to pursue your own agenda against Catholicism. This is irrelevant to this topic.
truthisfree wrote: » I have take you up once on how you are putting words in my mouth, completely twisting what I say and basically looking for an argument and not an intillegent discussion on this. It is you who keep mentioning child abuse here when responding to me. Are you taking advantage of this for your own agenda? My agenda if I have one is to see if people will discuss things that happen like this, honestly. There is an awful tendency for us Irish not to discuss and talk about terrible things that happen here. I think that we should talk about things that have happened and air them freely.
dollydimples82 wrote: » hi, i am new to this and i felt i had to leave a comment, i am from longford and still live here. i am by no means a good practising catholic, but i felt a deep loss on xmas morning looking up at the cathedral. i guess it was always there when you felt the need to go, always an open door. i was at many christenings, funerals, weddings, made my confirmation there and attended many masses. as a young child i would stare up at the beauitful ceiling, prehaps trying to count the beams, stare at the statues on the walls or wonder how this could be done. :) when my brother died he was removed to st mels, and i felt close to him here, he never lost his faith in god but i did, i just couldnt understand why god could do this to him. still i returned to st mels for his anniversary masses and always rememebered how the priest helped us with our loss, even opening the cathedral late on the sunday night to allow us say a prayer with my brother and spend some time with his remains, this is what the cathedral was about, especially to us longford people, it was not just a building, it was like a home for us when we needed it most. i dont condone child abuse but you cant tar every priest with the one brush, it wouldnt be right. please remember that.
Arkana wrote: » Without meaning any offense to anybody involved in this discussion - but I have an equal simple but important question to you all: Despite the fact that this is a horrible incident (still there has been no evidence for arson but it cannot 100% be excluded) and a huge loss... would you be equally upset if the destroyed building would have been a Pagan Temple or a Muslim Mosque? Check your conscience, please...
MDFM wrote: » if either were my place of worship throughout my life and i spent as much time in them as i did in the cathedral - then yes i would be upset. if not and if either were a remarkable stunning building equally as beautiful as the cathedral, then yes, i would be sorry to see the building destroyed. add to that, i would also prob know people connected to either building and i would be sorry for them for their loss. other than that, i'm lamenting the loss of a place that was very close to my heart, i dont have any battle with my conscience in that regard.
Micky 32 wrote: » Here's a picture of the inside, not pretty!
Graces7 wrote: » Mickey; the photo is a clear expression of what the Irish Catholic Church has done ti itself and to its people. All of them. Thank you for posting it; it is an icon that we will keep in our hearts wih utter pain at the ruination bishops and clergy and religious have inflicted on us all. Especially on those who cannot or will not see that. The hand of God is in this, surely and truly. Mickey has shown us this. Over and out. So telling that when prayer was asked for, no one took heed and yet more filthy language appeared.
Ghost Buster wrote: » Two groups have popped up on facebook with a nice balance between them and make interesting reading between the hand wringing episodes. R.I.P St Mels cathedral and Why restore St mels cathedral.
Graces7 wrote: » No one is saying that there has not been a loss. Period. Only that this loss is not the end of the world. Period. To speak of "despair"? Listen, please. It is the sacraments that matter, not the place where they take place. If you set too much store on buildings, then you lose the true meaning. Buildings will always fail and fall. sooner or later. Always. Ireland is full of ruined churches; some of them very beautiful, many of them now burial grounds for loved ones sheltered in their walls. And many of us cannot think of the Church as buidlings; why oppose us like this and with so much abuse and anger because we have a different viewpoint? Why the anger? It makes no sense in any way. And yes, many of take a wider view; many of us know abused people personally, and just as you care re friends and family, so do we, and it is hard for us to see them sidelined like this. If you are at peace with what you think, as I truly am, then there will be no anger or abuse or outrage. But is comes across that you are not; and we all have to face fully what the Church is and has done IF the Church we love is to survive and lift her head in these terrible times. Is not that what matters? Not any of us or our views? You will please excuse me now; this house has been cut off by snow and ice for two weeks now and more is starting to threaten. Please, pray together for all whose lives are at risk from this harsh winter; let us unite now in that ? A major snow event is now starting to sweep across the country as we have been suffering these last weeks. Blessings and prayers for all to Jesus See the weather boards her for excellent coverage.
lumpynomore wrote: » Thanxs for that, know which one I'm joining.
Jakkass wrote: » Considering R.I.P St Mel's Cathedral has 1,600 members, and the one questioning whether it should restored has 3 members. I know which I'd join too
Graces7 wrote: » Mickey; the photo is a clear expression of what the Irish Catholic Church has done ti itself and to its people. All of them. Thank you for posting it; it is an icon that we will keep in our hearts wih utter pain at the ruination bishops and clergy and religious have inflicted on us all. Especially on those who cannot or will not see that. The hand of God is in this, surely and truly. Mickey has shown us this.Over and out. So telling that when prayer was asked for, no one took heed and yet more filthy language appeared.
Jakkass wrote: » Ghost Buster: I'm implying that the real concern that people have seems to be in restoring the Cathedral. The other is using this as an opportunity to spew anti-Catholicism. Fair enough point I would have thought?
dollydimples82 wrote: » 'why restore st mels?' I think that in light of what abuse was carried out by the priest or lay people, that you cant not restore a building such as st mels because of this. As i have previously stated i am by no means a good practising catholic or do i condone child abuse of any discription but i would be horrified if st mels was not restored. I have heard a lot of gossip since st mels was burnt and the one that annoys me most is that people are suspecting arson, how in the name of god can you set fire to a place of worship because of child abuse, this is not going to achieve anything, as far as i am concerned the only way to get justice for such abuse is to see the priest or lay person responsible for such abuse been punished, we have to stop labelling all priest the same because of what some did. (sorry for going on):mad: It has been a place of worship for many people for many years and if you consider all that hard work and labour that people put into building this fine cathedral, i think it should be restored for them if no one else. There are lots of ruins of old churches around ireland, we dont need another one, and even though i have no experience in building or anything like that i would be honoured to give my time to help build st mels back to the full glory it once was and hopefully will be once again.
