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Child Item

Am I Irish?

Dr_Phil

Quick question, as a foreigner: when do you consider a person to be Irish:

1. When has an Irish citizensip
2. Was born in Ireland
3. Born in Ireland from Irish parents, who were born from Irish parents, etc, etc..
4. Is just well integrated into society and the lifestyle

Cheers.

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Dr_Phil

[quote=[Deleted User];63352925]
So...I have an Irish passport, Irish driving license, lived here most of my life, my last name as Irish, I have an Irish accent, went to college in Dublin.....and still the vast majority of Irish people do not see me as one of them.[/quote]
My favourite is /after a while of conversation, "where are you from", etc/ "Ah, jeez I thought you're Irish!!"

walrusgumble

robbie_998 wrote: »

Scenario No. 1 = before the thing was brought in that was the case but after that it no longer work like that so none of them are irish full stop.

Scenario No. 2 = if they dont have irish parents then they should not be able to claim to be irish.

scenario 1, eh, no. the children born in ireland before January 2005, are Irish Citizens, can hold passports and will only ever be revoked pending an application by the Minister to do so. The children born in Ireland before 2005, did not stop being citizens. Now, being allowed to stay in Ireland is a different matter.

As of 2005, any child born in Ireland and whose parents are not irish will not be citizens unless the parent or parents hae legally lived here for a least three years

Scenario 2 - so non Irish parents who have lived in Ireland for say, 7 years, legally, but don't wish to apply for citizenship (very very little difference with rights of a citizen and legal immigrant bar passport and EU citizenship and no threat of deportation) should have their children left in limbo??

Lig OFE

have you ever used the phrase "sher he's nothin but a feck-wanker" if so, you're possibly english but have a great grasp of rural ireland

i believe if ya wanna be irish ya can be... i dont know what makes you a citizen but i think if ya love it here and youve lived here a few years, and ya wanna continue to live here then enjoy the place and the chats and the view....

and yes you can be any colour skin and still be irish... it'd just be silly if ya couldn't... it also doesnt matter where your parents are from!! they're not you... my dads from tipperary, i'm from athlone... why would that make me a tipperary person?...

[Deleted User]

diverdriver wrote: »

Exactly, if you think you're Irish you are. Being Irish is state of mind.

The way some people talk here, they'd be rounding up people who didn't fit in with their narrow view of Irishness and shoot them. Just as well this is the internet and After Hours, not the real world.

It IS the real world. I'm constantly being told things like 'you sound Irish......but you're obviously NOT' and 'well you're sort of like....like Irish but with foreign parents'. It's almost Nazi-ish, but nobody can see that. My mam is English but that's not why they say those things, as you wouldn't know that unless I told you. It's because ONE set of great-grandparents came from a Mediterranean country and that's why I have tanned skin. I just happen to take after them a hell of a lot compared to the rest of my family - my brother is as pasty and freckly as they come.

So...I have an Irish passport, Irish driving license, lived here most of my life, my last name as Irish, I have an Irish accent, went to college in Dublin.....and still the vast majority of Irish people do not see me as one of them.

robbie_998

@walrusgumble.

yes thats much better, thank you

walrusgumble

robbie_998 wrote: »

is that not what i said in a nut shell ?

if your born here but you parents weren't then your not irish

basically your parents and parents parents must be in someway irish or have irish roots,

Eh, that's not the case fully.you are partly correct.

The Refendum of 2004 amended Article 9 of the Constitution. As we all know, that referendum was about whether or not we would, as of January 2005, have our laws acknolwedge automatic citizenship on the basis of birth even if the parents were not born in Ireland or were entilted to Irish Citizenship. The Old Artilce 9 is as follows

Article 9

1. 1° On the coming into operation of this Constitution any person who was a citizen of Saorstát Éireann immediately before the coming into operation of this Constitution shall become and be a citizen of Ireland.

2° The future acquisition and loss of Irish nationality and citizenship shall be determined in accordance with law.

3° No person may be excluded from Irish nationality and citizenship by reason of the sex of such person.

2. Fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State are fundamental political duties of all citizens.

The Referendum amended Article 9 as follows
1. 1° On the coming into operation of this Constitution any person who was a citizen of Saorstát Éireann immediately before the coming into operation of this Constitution shall become and be a citizen of Ireland.

2° The future acquisition and loss of Irish nationality and citizenship shall be determined in accordance with law.

3° No person may be excluded from Irish nationality and citizenship by reason of the sex of such person.

2. 1° Notwithstanding any other provision of this Constitution, a person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, who does not have, at the time of the birth of that person, at least one parent who is an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen is not entitled to Irish citizenship or nationality, unless provided for by law.

2° This section shall not apply to persons born before the date of the enactment of this section.

3. Fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State are fundamental political duties of all citizens.

The "unless provided for by law" phrase is dealt with in the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956-2004. As a result of the Referendum, the parent act was amended in December 2004 (to take effect from January 2005) at Section 6 (and other section) to include new provisions in dealing with children born to non Irish parents. The new Section 6 provides the following

6.—(1[/B]) Subject to section 6A (inserted by section 4 of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 2004), every person born in the island of Ireland is entitled to be an Irish citizen.

(2) (a) Subject to subsection (5), a person who is entitled under subsection (1) to be an Irish citizen shall be an Irish citizen from the date of his or her birth if—
(i) he or she does any act that only an Irish citizen is entitled to do,
or
(ii) in the case of a person who is not of full age or who is suffering from a mental incapacity, any act is done on his or her behalf that only an Irish citizen is entitled to do.

(b) The fact that a person so born has not done, or has not had done on his or her behalf, such an act shall not of itself give rise to a presumption that the person is not an Irish citizen or is a citizen of another country.

(3) A person born in the island of Ireland is an Irish citizen from birth if he or she is not entitled to citizenship of any other country.

[(4) repealed]

(5) A person born in the island of Ireland who has made a declaration of alienage under section 21 shall remain entitled to be an Irish citizen, but shall not be an Irish citizen unless, in the prescribed manner, that person declares that he or she is an Irish citizen; and such person shall be an Irish citizen from the date of the declaration.

(6) In this section “person” does not include a person born in the island of Ireland on or after the commencement of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 2004—

(a) neither of whose parents was at the time of the person’s birth—
(i) an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen,
(ii) a British citizen,
(iii) a person entitled to reside in the State without any restriction on his or her period of residence (including in accordance with a permission granted under section 4 of the Act of 2004), or
(iv) a person entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any restriction on his or her period of residence,

and

(b) at least one of whose parents was at that time entitled to diplomatic immunity in the State.

6A.—(1) A person born in the island of Ireland shall not be entitled to be an Irish citizen unless a parent of that person has, during the period of 4 years immediately preceding the person’s birth, been resident in the island of Ireland for a period of not less than 3 years or periods the aggregate of which is not less than 3 years.

(2) This section does not apply to—
(a) a person born before the commencement of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 2004,

(b) a person born in the island of Ireland—
(i) to parents at least one of whom was at the time of the person’s birth an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen,
(ii) if the person was born to parents one of whom was deceased at the time of the person’s birth and—
(I) the other parent was at that time, or
(II) the deceased parent was, immediately before he or she died, an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen,
or
(iii) if the person was born to parents both of whom were deceased at the time of the person’s birth, and at least one of whom was, immediately before his or her death, an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen,

(c) a person born in the island of Ireland—
(i) to parents at least one of whom was at the time of the person’s birth a British citizen or a person entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any restriction on his or her period of residence,
(ii) if the person was born to parents one of whom was deceased at the time of the person’s birth and—
(I) the other parent was at that time, or
(II) the deceased parent was, immediately before he or she died,
a British citizen or a person entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any restriction on his or her period of residence,
(iii) if the person was born to parents both of whom were deceased at the time of the person’s birth and at least one of whom was, immediately before his or her death, a British citizen or a person entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any restriction on his or her period of residence, or
(d) a person born in the island of Ireland—
(i) to parents at least one of whom was at the time of the person’s birth a person entitled to reside in the State without any restriction on his or her period of residence (including in accordance with a permission granted under section 4 of the Act of 2004),
(ii) if the person was born to parents one of whom was deceased at the time of the person’s birth and—
(I) the other parent was at that time, or
(II) the deceased parent was, immediately before he or she died,
a person entitled to reside in the State without any restriction on his or her period of residence (including in accordance with a permission granted under section 4 of the Act of 2004), or
(iii) if the person was born to parents both of whom were deceased at the time of the person’s birth and one of whom was, immediately before his or her death, a person entitled to reside in the State without any restriction on his or her period of residence (including in accordance with a permission granted under section 4 of the Act of 2004),
or
(e) a person born in the island of Ireland—
(i) neither of whose parents was at the time of the person’s birth—
(I) an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen,
(II) a British citizen,
(III) a person entitled to reside in the State without any restriction on his or her period of residence (including in accordance with a permission granted under section 4 of the Act of 2004), or
(IV) a person entitled to reside in Northern Ireland without any restriction on his or her period of residence,
and
(ii) at least one of whose parents was at that time entitled to diplomatic immunity in the State.
(3) In this section “British citizen” means a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Residence in the island of Ireland for the purposes of section 6A.

6B.—(1) Where a parent of a person to whom section 6A (inserted by section 4 of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 2004) applies dies before the person’s birth, the period commencing on the date of the parent’s death and expiring on the date of the person’s birth shall be reckonable for the purposes of calculating a period of residence in the island of Ireland under that section, if—
(a) the parent was, immediately before his or her death, residing in the island of Ireland, and
(b) the period in respect of which he or she was, immediately before his or her death, resident in the island of Ireland is reckonable for the purposes of that section.

(2) Where a national of—
(a) a Member State (other than the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland),
(b) a state (other than a Member State) that is a contracting party to the EEA Agreement, or
(c) the Swiss Confederation,

makes a declaration in such manner as may be prescribed that he or she has resided in the island of Ireland for such period as is stated in that declaration, he or she shall, for the purposes of section 6A, be regarded as having been resident in the island of Ireland—
(i) for that period, if during the entire of that period he or she was a national of a Member State, an EEA state or the Swiss Confederation, or
(ii) if he or she was such a national for part only of that period, for that part of the period,
unless the contrary is proved.

(3) (a) If a person who is the guardian of, or in loco parentis to, a person (in this paragraph referred to as the “second-mentioned person”) who—
(i) has not attained the age of 18 years, and
(ii) is the child of a person (in this paragraph referred to as the “parent”) who was, at the time of the second-mentioned person’s birth, a national of a state referred to in subsection (2),

makes a declaration in such manner as may be prescribed that the parent resided in the island of Ireland for such period as is specified in that declaration, the parent shall, for the purposes of section 6A, be regarded as having been resident in the island of Ireland—
(I) for that period, if during the entire of that period he or she was a national of a Member State, an EEA state or the Swiss Confederation, or
(II) if he or she was such a national for part only of that period, for that part of the period,
unless the contrary is proved.
(b) If a person who is duly authorised to act on behalf of a person (in this paragraph referred to as the “second-mentioned person”) who—
(i) is suffering from a mental incapacity, and
(ii) is the child of a person (in this paragraph referred to as the “parent”) who was, at the time of the second-mentioned person’s birth, a national of a state referred to in subsection (2),
makes a declaration in such manner as may be prescribed that the parent resided in the island of Ireland for such period as is specified in that declaration, the parent shall, for the purposes of section 6A, be regarded as having been resident in the island of Ireland—
(I) for that period, if during the entire of that period he or she was a national of a Member State, an EEA state or the Swiss Confederation, or
(II) if he or she was such a national for part only of that period, for that part of the period,
unless the contrary is proved.
(c) If a person (in this paragraph referred to as the “declarant”) who—
(i) has attained the age of 18 years, and
(ii) is the child of a person (in this paragraph referred to as the “parent”) who was, at the time of the declarant’s birth, a national of a state referred to in subsection (2),
makes a declaration in such manner as may be prescribed that the parent resided in the island of Ireland for such period as is stated in that declaration, the parent shall, for the purposes of section 6A, be regarded as having been resident in the island of Ireland—
(I) for that period, if during the entire of that period he or she was a national of a Member State, an EEA state or the Swiss Confederation, or
(II) if he or she was such a national for part only of that period, for that part of the period,
unless the contrary is proved.
(4) A period of residence in the State shall not be reckonable for the purposes of calculating a period of residence under section 6A if—
(a) it is in contravention of section 5(1) of the Act of 2004,
(b) it is in accordance with a permission given to a person under section 4 of the Act of 2004 for the purpose of enabling him or her to engage in a course of education or study in the State, or
(c) it consists of a period during which a person (other than a person who was, during that period, a national of a Member State, an EEA state or the Swiss Confederation) referred to in subsection (2) of section 9 (amended by section 7(c)(i) of the Act of 2003) of the Act of 1996 is entitled to remain in the State in accordance only with the said subsection.
(5) A period of residence in Northern Ireland shall not be reckonable for the purposes of calculating a period of residence under section 6A—
(a) if—
(i) the person concerned is not during the entire of that period a national of a Member State, an EEA state or the Swiss Confederation, and
(ii) the residence of the person concerned in Northern Ireland during that period is not lawful under the law of Northern Ireland,
or
(b) if the entitlement of the person concerned to reside in Northern Ireland during that period is subject to a condition that is the same as or similar to a condition which, if applicable in respect of an entitlement to reside in the State, would, by virtue of subsection (4), render a period of residence in the State pursuant to such an entitlement not reckonable for the purposes of calculating a period of residence under the said section 6A.
(6) A declaration referred to subsection (2) or (3) shall be accompanied by such verifying documents (if any) as may be prescribed.

diverdriver

Exactly, if you think you're Irish you are. Being Irish is state of mind.

The way some people talk here, they'd be rounding up people who didn't fit in with their narrow view of Irishness and shoot them. Just as well this is the internet and After Hours, not the real world.

Some of you ought to be careful about throwing stones in glass houses. One day in my job, in an idle moment I counted up all the names on the phone list and worked out which had English or Scottish or Welsh names and which had Irish, ignoring of course the actual, English, Scottish, Americans etc. It came out at about 40% give or take. Not very scientific, I know but interesting. Not English versions of Irish names but actual English names.

Well you lot can pack your bags too, you bunch of invading colonisers. You're not really Irish. My surname is Irish and is easily traceable back to Brian Boru and all that. So I qualify as true Irish.

On the other hand, when I look at my grandparents, it all gets a bit worrying. Names like Hawkins and the like spring up.

One of the great things about America, is that once you become a citizen you are expected to be proud of being American and place America first. We should take a similar view.

Welcome to Ireland, the new Irish. We're a mongrel race as it is and we need new blood.

meditraitor

If you think your Irish then your Irish

Teferi

I'm now questioning my Irishness. My mother was born in England.

Feckin' blood traitors :rolleyes:

If you are born here, you're Irish.

ei.sdraob

same as the law (Citizenship Act of 50something)

after 5 years of working, not committing crime, paying taxes

and then another 3 years as above but waiting for your naturalization application to be processed

ejmaztec

cruiser178 wrote: »

Right

It's always a problem when you come across a person who thinks that they know everything.

cruiser178

elmer wrote: »

you mean O' Mainnin of course don't you. If you're under some illusion that your entire lineage is "Irish" then you're codding yourself. Well that or you're family are a genetic dead end. And all having an irish surname means is that(generally) your father had an irish surname.

Right

elmer

cruiser178 wrote: »

when your second name IS IRISH,when your grandparents tell you your family history like mine did...my second name is mannion..then you know your irish.

you mean O' Mainnin of course don't you. If you're under some illusion that your entire lineage is "Irish" then you're codding yourself. Well that or you're family are a genetic dead end. And all having an irish surname means is that(generally) your father had an irish surname.

Spiritoftheseventies

As the song goes you dont have to be irish to be irish. Its a state of mind

philologos

^^ It's because you are both Irish.

As the world becomes more and more a global marketplace of cultures, ideas and so on. People will have to start admitting that nationality isn't quite as rigid as we ever thought it was.

InKonspikuou2

Consider myself Irish as well. Moved here when i was 6 from Colombia. Father was Irish and a gaeilgeoir. I have an Irish passport, my name is as gaeilge and i'm fluent in Irish. Funnily enough i spoke Irish before i spoke English. Only really learned English when i moved here. Don't look one bit Irish though. When i speak in Spanish you'd think i'm just some random spik.

[Deleted User]

I dunno. I consider myself Irish. I wasn't born here. But my Mother is Irish. I've lived here two thirds of my life. And I have an Irish passport!

But I guess according to this thread I'm not Irish, meh.

Daroxtar

cruiser178 wrote: »

Now there runs a man with the biggest pair of balls i've ever seen:D

Sometimes when your balls are too big they bang off your legs and slow you down when you try to run:D

Spiritoftheseventies

ejmaztec wrote: »

It's all Greek to me.

He is fluent in Irish

dr.bollocko

Daroxtar wrote: »

Don't you mean Patronising?
/grabs coat and runs

/adds daroxtar to list.

cruiser178

Daroxtar wrote: »

Don't you mean Patronising?
/grabs coat and runs

Now there runs a man with the biggest pair of balls i've ever seen:D

Spiritoftheseventies

Dr_Phil wrote: »

Quick question, as a foreigner: when do you consider a person to be Irish:

1. When has an Irish citizensip
2. Was born in Ireland
3. Born in Ireland from Irish parents, who were born from Irish parents, etc, etc..
4. Is just well integrated into society and the lifestyle

Cheers.

If you can say "Can I have three points of your guinness pleez" then yes you pass as Oirish!

ejmaztec

Daroxtar wrote: »

Don't you mean Patronising?
/grabs coat and runs

You've got more guts than I have, or you're a faster runner.:eek:

Daroxtar

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Please take your patrnoising grammar correcting crap elsewhere. Not interested in your lectures here. Fair warning.

Don't you mean Patronising?
/grabs coat and runs

dr.bollocko

Rebelheart wrote: »

The spelling on this thread is fairly abysmal - even for Afterhours. The above is just from the first three pages. One lesson at a time:

You're = You are, e.g. if you're born here...
Your = possessive case; eg your parents ...
They're = they are
Their = possessive case, e.g. their parents

Make the effort. Lazy writing and lazy ideas are inextricably linked.

/lesson.

Please take your patrnoising grammar correcting crap elsewhere. Not interested in your lectures here. Fair warning.

ejmaztec

Daroxtar wrote: »

Is Sean Og O Hailpin Irish?

It's all Greek to me.

Daroxtar

Is Sean Og O Hailpin Irish?

mikom

Rebelheart wrote: »

Anybody going around using the name the English gave their family is, well, not in exactly a strong position to contend that their surname is a sign of their Irishness.

Ó Mainnín, on the other hand, is very much an Irish name. No self-serving selective guide to Irishness there. The real deal.

The real deal.
The real deal.
And the most Irish of all Irish names would be one named after this fair Isle.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Stephen Ireland........ oh wait..........

stovelid

Rebelheart wrote: »

Ditto.

Are you implying that I'm a fat bird?

Rebelheart

stovelid wrote: »

I'm very proud of you.

Ditto.