Left 4 Dead 2 Launch

Seifer wrote: »

TF2 is not incomplete. You bought the full game at launch, anything you got after that was a bonus.

Just as L4D was "Complete" at launch, and L4D2 was "Complete" at launch.

TF2 was complete at launch. Then the Medic Pack came out and began to change everything. The game is now at a point where it is not the Game it was when it launched and it is not the game it is planned to be at the end of these releases. Incomplete.

Its like owning a perfectly good house and deciding to start building an extenstion. Its hard to call it a finished house when its riddled with scaffolding. Yes theres a kitchen and a bath and bedrooms, but I wouldnt make it my first choice for holding a christmas party.

Nick_oliveri

Overheal wrote: »

Its like owning a perfectly good house and deciding to start building an extenstion. Its hard to call it a finished house when its riddled with scaffolding. Yes theres a kitchen and a bath and bedrooms, but I wouldnt make it my first choice for holding a christmas party.

Indeed. Just played a game of L4D2 there, in the mall campaign, we were playing VS and the tank cannot progress near the survivors because theres windows in the way... Only the survivors can break the window. This facilitates much ******ry, and the survivor team still wait minutes after the AI kicks into the tank. Needless to say I quit that fairly lively. I'm not impressed.

Big scary ass tank and numerous SI vs mall windows... Mall windows 1 - Infected 0.

Also they still have stages in the day where the dedicated servers break, and you get thrown into 500ping plus servers, probably in another solar system. This is a problem that has spanned across the two games. I blame matchmaking.

MM tries to link the players. If I tried MM'ng with half of you (South Carolina to Ireland) We would get the ****tiest ping ever, and the server would probably be in Greenland or Canada somewhere.

As for the mall thing - that musta sucked on Versus. Much less an issue on Campaign but those windows are both odd and strange. I am sure thats gonna get fixed.

It only launched last week and with millions of players suddenly "testing" it, thats bound to happen. But that only begs the question - 9 months? Full price for 9 months? I would have thought a half off launch special At Least given the development cycle for this sequel must have left absolutely no time for alpha and beta testing.

Its not just those annoying hiccups its the AI in general; much of it is just carried over from the original. Theyve added a lot, and the zombies are great (they SI seem much smarter - and I both loathe and respect the Spitter and Charger) but theres been nothing added to the Survivor AI. We lost the Mall finale because Nick the Bobblehead got 'stuck' standing around on the first floor.

Overheal wrote: »

It only launched last week and with millions of players suddenly "testing" it, thats bound to happen. But that only begs the question - 9 months? Full price for 9 months? I would have thought a half off launch special At Least given the development cycle for this sequel must have left absolutely no time for alpha and beta testing.

Its not just those annoying hiccups its the AI in general; much of it is just carried over from the original. Theyve added a lot, and the zombies are great (they SI seem much smarter - and I both loathe and respect the Spitter and Charger) but theres been nothing added to the Survivor AI. We lost the Mall finale because Nick the Bobblehead got 'stuck' standing around on the first floor.

If you feel that way then why didn't you wait and let us test it out and you pick it up at the first half-price weekend?
Maybe because you know it's great fun and well worth the money and you're just whining for the sake of whining?

Seifer wrote: »

If you feel that way then why didn't you wait and let us test it out and you pick it up at the first half-price weekend?
Maybe because you know it's great fun and well worth the money and you're just whining for the sake of whining?

Given the last title to go off of, I estimated that L4D2 would probably not see a significant price drop until at least late March.

And have you ever heard of Acceptance Under Protest?

I'm allowed to make a point and be critical. Just as MW2 players are allowed to be critical of the lack of Dedicated Server Support while still owning the title.

Overheal wrote: »

I'm allowed to make a point and be critical. Just as MW2 players are allowed to be critical of the lack of Dedicated Server Support while still owning the title.

Complaining about some problem you didn't know existed before you bought the game is fair game. Complaining about some problem you knew existed and you didn't like and then buying the game anyway is foolish at the very least.
People who bought MW2 on PC have no right to complain about dedicated servers as they knew that they were supporting IW's decision when they bought the game.

Seifer wrote: »

Complaining about some problem you didn't know existed before you bought the game is fair game. Complaining about some problem you knew existed and you didn't like and then buying the game anyway is foolish at the very least.
People who bought MW2 on PC have no right to complain about dedicated servers as they knew that they were supporting IW's decision when they bought the game.

Well, you pay taxes, so you arent allowed to complain how the money is spent either.

Sandvich

Jumpy wrote: »

Tesco sells baked beans right? right?

They bring out a new Baked Beans and Sausages. WHERE THE **** ARE MY FREE SAUSAGES?
THEY WANT ME TO BUY A NEW CAN? **** THAT.

Thats what you sound like.

I buy games based on whether I think I would like to play them. I dont think upgrades need to be free. Bug fixes should obviously be free.
I dont like advertising for content in game (a'la Dragon Age) but this isnt it.

This is a new game. You bought L4D for what it contained at release.

I bought it for the content that Valve promised it would give. What do you hope to achieve by trying to goad people into feeling good about being ripped off? Do you not realise you're doing the exact opposite of what we should be doing? You're trying to feel smarter and more mature by stopping the defense mechanism people have that helps stop them from getting manipulated and screwed over.

You ignored completely the fact that they promised several times to give you sausages later on. This is what I hate about Valve fanboys - since there's no way to really defend selling a game on the back of broken promises, they just ignore half the argument so it better matches their intellectual capacity.

Seifer wrote: »

TF2 is not incomplete. You bought the full game at launch, anything you got after that was a bonus.

What, like the serious performance issues that make it so Arkham Asylum gets better frame rates? TF2 ran nearly twice as well on my old laptop, before all the updates I hardly ever use(Save Payload). Thanks Valve. Thalve.

Overheal wrote: »

Well, you pay taxes, so you arent allowed to complain how the money is spent either.

Lol, and you win the stupidest analogy in thread award.
You have no choice but to pay taxes. And you have no direct say on how they are spent like you do with the decision of whether or not to buy a game.

Sandvich wrote: »

I bought it for the content that Valve promised it would give.

While not directly related, just curious, do you not think a Valve game at launch is worth the money on it's own? And then treat any further content as a bonus? Because there are lots of games that launch and have one or two bug fixing patches and that's it.

Sandvich wrote: »

What, like the serious performance issues that make it so Arkham Asylum gets better frame rates? TF2 ran nearly twice as well on my old laptop, before all the updates I hardly ever use(Save Payload). Thanks Valve. Thalve.

You're saying the game worked fine and Valve went onto break it? So surely you'd prefer them not to do the same to l4d?

Jumpy

Sandvich wrote: »

You ignored completely the fact that they promised several times to give you sausages later on.

Seriously dude, Valve makes games not sausages. Expecting sausages from a games developer is just weird.

Sandvich

While not directly related, just curious, do you not think a Valve game at launch is worth the money on it's own? And then treat any further content as a bonus? Because there are lots of games that launch and have one or two bug fixing patches and that's it.

And do they promise to offer 10 extra weapons, new campaigns, new characters?

L4D was empty on it's own and is still fairly empty with it's paltry updates.

Sandvich wrote: »

And do they promise to offer 10 extra weapons, new campaigns, new characters?

So the added content is an important factor for you then.
Well I suppose we're just different. I buy a game for what I get from day one and treat any additions as a bonus. It doesn't influence my decision if a developer does/does not outline further content for the game.

Sandvich wrote: »

L4D was empty on it's own

I'll give you that. I played the demo when it came out and didn't think much of it. It wasn't until they did the free weekend and I got to play versus (versus mode which was only properly supported with after launch updates) that I saw the beauty of the game .

Sandvich wrote: »

and is still fairly empty with it's paltry updates.

As someone with over 340 hours logged in the game, I respectfully disagree.

Sandvich

So the added content is an important factor for you then.
Well I suppose we're just different. I buy a game for what I get from day one and treat any additions as a bonus. It doesn't influence my decision if a developer does/does not outline further content for the game.

I honestly think you're being kind of dumb about this. It's not just a difference of perspective, Steam changed the model of a game being content on the disk to a game being digital content you can download at any time. If they promise additional content, you presume it as "part" of the game that gets a slow release, so they can get people to try out the game as soon as possible.

It's like not being worried that a bunch of stuff on the box turned out not to be in the game. This has happened before and it usually annoys people.

As someone with over 340 hours logged in the game, I respectfully disagree.

Some people can log 340 hours playing Farmville on Facebook, or Minesweeper.

Sandvich wrote: »

I honestly think you're being kind of dumb about this. It's not just a difference of perspective, Steam changed the model of a game being content on the disk to a game being digital content you can download at any time. If they promise additional content, you presume it as "part" of the game that gets a slow release, so they can get people to try out the game as soon as possible.

It's like not being worried that a bunch of stuff on the box turned out not to be in the game. This has happened before and it usually annoys people.

What has digital distribution got to do with anything? You can buy TF2 and L4D in a box in a shop if you want. I think your confusing what they tried (and failed) to do with the Half-Life 2 episodes with their other stand alone products.
How many of the purchasers of L4D do you think saw interviews with the developers promising additional content and then made their decision on whether or not to buy the game? I'm guessing in the low 0.001%

Sandvich wrote: »

Some people can log 340 hours playing Farmville on Facebook, or Minesweeper.

Not really sure what you're on about here...

indough

what the hell does the method of distribution matter? the game they sold was the finished product, everything released after that was bonus content

i really dont even understand why that is being debated

Fair and balanced commentary by Destructoid:
http://www.destructoid.com/think-l4d2-is-an-expansion-you-re-a-f-cking-idiot-155498.phtml

Seifer wrote: »

What has digital distribution got to do with anything? You can buy TF2 and L4D in a box in a shop if you want. I think your confusing what they tried (and failed) to do with the Half-Life 2 episodes with their other stand alone products.
How many of the purchasers of L4D do you think saw interviews with the developers promising additional content and then made their decision on whether or not to buy the game? I'm guessing in the low 0.001%

Not really sure what you're on about here...

TF2 Launched in 4th Quarter 2007, and received its Brick-****ting Announcement in April 2008: TF2 which we all already loved and cherished, would receive regular updates and New Weapons for each of the 9 classes as well as a host of Achievements and (at the least) a couple new maps.

Valve wrote:

This update will also mark the beginning of the most significant change we'll be making to Team Fortress 2 over the next year. Beginning first with the medic, players will be able to earn three unique items by earning some or all of the new Medic achievements coming in this update. These three unique items will allow players to have new choices as to how they play the class, as well as have a new impact and benefit to the team they play on. After this initial release we'll be quickly adding unique items for the remaining eight classes.

Needless to say everybody was thrilled and giddy.

So when L4D Shipped just shy-late of 6 months later, you might be forgiven for thinking L4D - another wonderful multiplayer offering - might also be receiving ongoing support and addition to the regular title.

Im not going to bash you Seifer but if you didnt know any of that and you had been sitting under a rock on mars with your fingers in your ears singing A Lovely Bunch of Coconuts you may not have drawn the same implication as the rest of us. But I think you'd be lying to yourself to say the Idea of trickled released content did not slip into that pretty Balaclavaed head of yours prior to typing out your credit card details in November of last year.

Im not saying it will never surface for L4D but it doesnt paint a pretty picture when theyve gone off and done the sequel already - lovely as it is. Have I mentioned how much I love the spitter? not in a sexual way (she has a disease, clearly) but it definitely rids us of Closet Camping. A+. But I still hope for more goodies for the original. Or at least some good integration of the two.

Overheal wrote: »

Im not going to bash you Seifer but if you didnt know any of that and you had been sitting under a rock on mars with your fingers in your ears singing A Lovely Bunch of Coconuts you may not have drawn the same implication as the rest of us. But I think you'd be lying to yourself to say the Idea of trickled released content did not slip into that pretty Balaclavaed head of yours prior to typing out your credit card details in November of last year.

What you don't understand is I don't care. I bought l4d2 at launch because the game is providing five new campaigns to run around in versus mode. With new infected and weapons. If they never add a thing to it besides bug and balance fixes I'll be perfectly happy. As far as I'm concerned my transaction with Valve is complete.
And what do you mean "the rest of us"? There's one other person on the thread agreeing with you as far as I can see.

On another note:

Seifer wrote:

Have noticed one bug, my friends and I, we're all playing with max graphics and a lot of times when we fought a tank there was noticeable frame drop.

Patch Notes wrote:

Fixed performance problem when rendering lots of decals, notably when fighting tanks with shotguns

So off to a good start

I bought l4d2 at launch because the game is providing five new campaigns to run around in versus mode. With new infected and weapons. If they never add a thing to it besides bug and balance fixes I'll be perfectly happy. As far as I'm concerned my transaction with Valve is complete.

Me too! Destructoid's article is dead right about it:

Simply put, you are getting way more gameplay for your money than you got with the original game. If that's an expansion, it's a pretty bloody great one, and if you were willing to spend sixty bucks $35 on the first game, why the hesitance over buying something significantly larger for the same amount of money a little extra? What's wrong with you? You must be a ****ing idiot.

But when youre talking about L4D1, Im still just a little pissed from expecting new free content which never surfaced. And Ive learned not to get my hopes up for L4D2.

Atlas_IRL

Its the price of a few beers or a night out, much cheaper even. I will get many hours out of playing it i will get a few hourd out of my night out. Which do prefere in the long one, well unless i meet some savage bird that i get to screw for a good period of time ill take lfd2 thanks.

Sierra Oscar

We already know that Valve intend to continue supporting L4D1 even though L4D2 is now released . . .

L4D1 will more than likely receive at least one more DLC pack in my view. Oh and by the way . . . are people forgetting that L4D 1 has already received two free DLC updates?

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

We already know that Valve intend to continue supporting L4D1 even though L4D2 is now released . . .

L4D1 will more than likely receive at least one more DLC pack in my view. Oh and by the way . . . are people forgetting that L4D 1 has already received two free DLC updates?

I don't think they'll be happy until each survivor/SI gets an update with unique weapons and achievements...

super_furry

Well the 360 version is pretty much unplayable due to crippling lag. Really sucks.

As is my PC version, and all my steam games. I'm waiting for a steam update...

leninbenjamin

There was an update last night btw.

I think it's just a case of there being too many people on the system for the servers to handle. I know it took us ages last night to find a server with a decent latency, but we did find one in the end.

super_furry

Was that update just for the PC or for the 360 too?

PC, my problem is related to steam and not L4D2 in particular. All my steam games freeze my PC including non-source games like MW2.

Fnz

When looking to find games, via the server browser, no 'difficulty' column is displayed. Is this a known issue or am I the only one experiencing it?

OK-Cancel-Apply

Great game, glad I bought it. Feels very different to the first one. Weapons everywhere - you can chop and change between rifles, submachine guns and whatever else is lying around, including lots of melee weapons (cricket bats, machetes, swords and even guitars).

Loved the rock concert campaign.

Different gameplay to the first one. As somebody else said, there are no places you are 'supposed' to huddle in, or routes you have to take. The game very much feels like you are grabbing whatever you can find and using the environment any way you think you can, unlike the first one, where the whole experience became somewhat 'on rails' after the best tactics where discovered.