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Difference between Postgraduate Diploma and Masters Degree

mr.interested

I've got totally mixed up with the Irish system. I've thought that Postgraduate Diploma lies somewhere between Honours Bachelor Degree (Level 8) and Masters Degree (Level 9). I checked NFQ website today, and realized that Postgraduate Diploma is listed actually under Level 9. So if both are on Level 9, what's really the difference between them? Can you, for instance, do a PhD programme (without transfer route) having Postgraduate Diploma, or do you have to have a Master Degree? If yes, again, what's the difference between these two degrees? If not, why are both listed under Level 9? I'd appreciated your responses.

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convert

In my experience (in arts) a postgrad diploma is generally what used to be called an MA qualifier- i.e. a course that people could take if their degree results weren't good enough. If the students did well enough in the qualifier, then they could pursue the MA.

Generally in Arts a student needs to be enrolled on an MA course to apply for a PhD (i.e. chosing to upgrade rather than complete an MA and then apply for a PhD).

x in the city

In Electronics, it would be typically given to someone who opted out of a module or a project

parker kent

I did a masters this year. The difference between us and the grad dips in the class is that to get a masters you had to do a thesis. Research of some sort would be the difference.

mr.interested

convert wrote: »

In my experience (in arts) a postgrad diploma is generally what used to be called an MA qualifier- i.e. a course that people could take if their degree results weren't good enough. If the students did well enough in the qualifier, then they could pursue the MA.

Generally in Arts a student needs to be enrolled on an MA course to apply for a PhD (i.e. chosing to upgrade rather than complete an MA and then apply for a PhD).

Many thanks for you respone.

Well, if you take, for instance, MSc in Finance in DIT and Postgraduate Diploma in Finance also in DIT, the difference has nothing to do with the results. Each of each requires II.2 in BA (I presume 2H2 is the same what II.2). Yet the former requires a finance to be a major part in the BA degree.

If you go to UCD website, their terminology is even more confusing for me. They offer Higher Diploma in Economics (Level 8), MA Qualifier in Economics (Level 9, what you say is Postgraduate Diploma) and MA in Economics. Both Higher Diploma and MA Qualifier are designed for those who don't fulfil the minimum requirements to apply for MA, and want to do so after doing either the former or the latter. So in this case, what's the differences? (Apart from the level.)

If you don't want to upgrade your MA, can you do Postgraduate Diploma instead and then do a PhD? (As both MA and Post.Dip. are on the same level.)

mr.interested

parker kent wrote: »

I did a masters this year. The difference between us and the grad dips in the class is that to get a masters you had to do a thesis. Research of some sort would be the difference.

Can you say that a masters is more practical, and a postgraduate diploma more theoretical?

Again, what about a PhD? If both above-mentioned degrees are on the same level (NFQ 9), and if you don't want to do a PhD by means of track, etc., can you do a postgraduate diploma first and then apply for a PhD? If not, I just don't get it, why are they on the same level, yet, paradoxically, one of each is higher?

PS. Why some people say 'Master Degree', some 'Masters Degree' and some 'Master's Degree'?

rainbowtrout

Just to add my 2c.

I did a Postgrad Diploma, I suppose you could say a lot of the PDs are one year taught courses and are designed for graduates from a number of disciplines who perhaps want to move into another area of work or study without doing another degree, so a lot of the work would be of undergrad level crammed into a year. A Master's is studying at a higher level and specialising in an area already studied at degree level (not always the case I know) and possibly with some independent research thrown in, in the form of a thesis.

That was my experience of my Postgrad Dip. I did one in Computing and I have a degree in Biology and Chemistry.

dory

I'm not sure about that grammar there but I know if you're applying for a PhD an MA would be regarded higher than a PG Diploma. The former shows that you can undertake research and all that. They might say a 2.1 is required as basic entrance for both but when it comes to people applying the MA might be more competitive. Just say there are 20 places on each - 21 people with firsts apply for the MA so that's gone and then generally the standard for the PG Dip would be lower as people like to have an MA on their CV.

As to why they are on the same level - that is because they are both what can happen straight after a degree I think. That does not mean that they will be regarded the same by future employers or PhD supervisors. They won't care what FETAC says, they will want someone with research experience.

Tails142

Generally the hierachy is like this

Level 8 Honours Degree > Postgrad Diploma > Masters (Taught)

Level 8 Honours Degree > Masters (Research) > PhD

I doubt you can get onto a PhD from a Postgrad Diploma as in most cases a Postgrad Diploma does not include a research element, and where a level 9 course does have a thesis element it's generally called a Masters (Taught). Postgrad diplomas often mirror a taught masters, but are just of a shorter duration (1 year) or dont have the research element, i.e. a thesis to be submitted.

Also I dont believe there are many cases where you can go from a Taught Masters to a PhD, you generally have to start off a research masters and then transfer to a PhD if the research you're carrying out is promising.

Of course I'm sure people will come up with many exceptions to these rules.

convert

From what you've posted, the MSc in finance requires a certain course in order to be eligible, and so is a master's, while the diploma doesn't- i.e. it isn't as specialised and therefore doesn't get the same qualifcation.

One of my friend's had a problem initially when the applied for an MSc in Economics in the UK. The uni thought they hadn't the required courses and enrolled them in a Dip as opposed to a Master's, and which they had to complete before being accepted on the MSc programme (got it sorted in the end, though).

Not sure why Economics in UCD have the MA, the Dip and the Qualifier. I thought the latter 2 were the same (they are for humanities as far as I know). Maybe contact the school and have a chat to them.

If it was my choice and I had all the requirements I'd apply for the MA as you'd be definitely be able to go onto further study if you so wished, without having to do another course. Plus an MA is widely recognised. It may take the Dip a little while to get established as I think it's relatively new.

Are the fees the same?

convert

Tails142 wrote: »

Also I dont believe there are many cases where you can go from a Taught Masters to a PhD, you generally have to start off a research masters and then transfer to a PhD if the research you're carrying out is promising.

Of course I'm sure people will come up with many exceptions to these rules.

I think things may be different for humanities than for science. I did a taught MA with a minor thesis and then progressed to a PhD. It's quite common in humanities. Not sure abt science/engineering/ag

mr.interested

Tails142 wrote: »

Generally the hierachy is like this

Level 8 Honours Degree > Postgrad Diploma > Masters (Taught)

Level 8 Honours Degree > Masters (Research) > PhD
...
Also I dont believe there are many cases where you can go from a Taught Masters to a PhD, you generally have to start off a research masters and then transfer to a PhD if the research you're carrying out is promising.

As far as I know, the route BA --> Masters by Reserach --> PhD isn't possible in continental Europe. So a lot of countries have Taught Masters only and the only route to do a PhD is BA --> Taught Masters --> PhD.

I've discussed the latter in four main universities in Dublin (UCD, DIT, DCU and TCD) and this is of course possible. (I'm talking about economics-related field.)

convert wrote: »

Are the fees the same?

Yes, MA in Economics and HDip in Economics both cost 5,400. MA qualifier isn't listed on the webpage with the fees.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Just to add my 2c.

I did a Postgrad Diploma, I suppose you could say a lot of the PDs are one year taught courses and are designed for graduates from a number of disciplines who perhaps want to move into another area of work or study without doing another degree, so a lot of the work would be of undergrad level crammed into a year. A Master's is studying at a higher level and specialising in an area already studied at degree level (not always the case I know) and possibly with some independent research thrown in, in the form of a thesis.

That was my experience of my Postgrad Dip. I did one in Computing and I have a degree in Biology and Chemistry.

Yet the confusing thing is this: DIT offers Post.Grad.Dip. in Finance and MSc in Finance. The former is for whose from, for instance, different discipline. However, at the same time they offer MSc in Marketing, which is designed for those who don't have a degree in business-related discipline. (Which is why I haven't got a place, since I have BA in management.) So why they don't stick with one option only: offering Post.Grad.Dip for those from different discipline? They just make it more complicated.

El Siglo

convert wrote: »

I think things may be different for humanities than for science. I did a taught MA with a minor thesis and then progressed to a PhD. It's quite common in humanities. Not sure abt science/engineering/ag

I'd say it's the same tbh. A masters is a masters regardless of discipline (i.e. if it's either in a science or engineering or arts field of research).

mr.interested

convert wrote: »

Not sure why Economics in UCD have the MA, the Dip and the Qualifier. I thought the latter 2 were the same (they are for humanities as far as I know). Maybe contact the school and have a chat to them.

Just to update this, as I've found out. HDip and MA Qualifier are for a person who undertook at least intermediate level of economics courses, while MA for a person with advanced-level of those course.

The difference between HDip and MA Qualifier is that the former is a 60-credit programme and gives recognized qualification outside UCD. The latter is a 30-credit programme, not recognized outside UCD; it's designed mainly for UCD students who haven't done well enough to be admitted into MA.

bret69

If you have a degree and you're going to do a seperate diploma in one aspect of the degree, can you call it a post graduate diploma?

Yve

convert wrote: »

In my experience (in arts) a postgrad diploma is generally what used to be called an MA qualifier- i.e. a course that people could take if their degree results weren't good enough. If the students did well enough in the qualifier, then they could pursue the MA.
quote]

Lots of people do PostGrad Higher Diplomas as a Conversion programme. It does not necessarily mean that one's results were not good enough merely one's result are not in the subject chosen. It enables a person to do a complete subject change. Example I have my Humanities 2.1 (philosophy, psychology) and am commencing my H-DIp in Psychoanalytic studies. This will enable me access into the MA in PSychotherapy.

mr.interested

Yve wrote: »

Lots of people do PostGrad Higher Diplomas as a Conversion programme. It does not necessarily mean that one's results were not good enough merely one's result are not in the subject chosen. It enables a person to do a complete subject change. Example I have my Humanities 2.1 (philosophy, psychology) and am commencing my H-DIp in Psychoanalytic studies. This will enable me access into the MA in PSychotherapy.

The problem is that some universities make this confusing. For instance, DIT offers a MSc in Marketing, which is a conversion programme (to the degree that they don't even accept applications from people who have undergraduate degree in business). However, at the same time it offers both PGradDip and MSc in Finance. The former acts as either a qualifier or a conversion programme.

pandapatrol

Hi there Im wondering if I decide to do a MSc in Finance and Economics with the University of London, will it be recognised in Ireland? Also would this be recognised as a good enough qualification to lecture in Ireland? Any help would be great

dyl10

Qualifax have postgraduate diplomas listed as Level 8.
I was under the impression that these were a "faster" degree, for students who have already graduated with a degree in another discipline.

theshowdog

So would I be correct in saying when people refer to a 'post-grad degree course' they are referring to a Post Grad diploma?

bogtotty

pandapatrol wrote: »

Hi there Im wondering if I decide to do a MSc in Finance and Economics with the University of London, will it be recognised in Ireland? Also would this be recognised as a good enough qualification to lecture in Ireland? Any help would be great

Yes, your MSc will be recognised; however, it is extremely difficult to get a lecturing position without having a PhD.

bogtotty

Tails142 wrote: »

Level 8 Honours Degree > Postgrad Diploma > Masters (Taught)

Level 8 Honours Degree > Masters (Research) > PhD

I doubt you can get onto a PhD from a Postgrad Diploma as in most cases a Postgrad Diploma does not include a research element, and where a level 9 course does have a thesis element it's generally called a Masters (Taught). Postgrad diplomas often mirror a taught masters, but are just of a shorter duration (1 year) or dont have the research element, i.e. a thesis to be submitted.

Also I dont believe there are many cases where you can go from a Taught Masters to a PhD, you generally have to start off a research masters and then transfer to a PhD if the research you're carrying out is promising.

Of course I'm sure people will come up with many exceptions to these rules.

Another exception - I know a few geniuses who got Firsts on their BA who progressed immediately to a Phd. Granted, this was in Arts & Social Sciences, and their final year dissertations were considered to be outstanding. It was also in TCD, where the BA lasted 4 years rather than 3, if that makes a difference.
In the areas of psychology and sociology, I know plenty of people who went from a taught MA to a 3yr PhD.

Some part-time 2-yr taught Masters allow students to claim a PG Dip at the end of the first year, before they progress to the MA section (which is generally the research component). And in some cases on a fulltime MA, if a student's work is not considered to be of a high enough standard, they are not allowed to progress to the MA component.

seadnamac

Sorry to drag this up again, but it's something that's really confusing me at present as I'm looking into Masters courses for next year after I graduate.

I'm looking at a Masters in Planning, particularily this course in Herriot Watt in Edinburgh (I'm studying in Edinburgh at the moment)...

http://www.postgraduate.hw.ac.uk/courses/view/232/

It's listed as a Diploma/Masters. What exactly is that? Which one is it? If you look at the complete list of postgrads it's even more confusing with a variety of different qualification titles..

http://www.postgraduate.hw.ac.uk/courses/taught/

If it's a PG Diploma does that still hold a lot of weight? I take it it's still a level 9 qualification? Any reason I should ignore it if it's not an actaul Masters?

Oh and I just read this thread and am now having SERIOUS doubts about it as a career path...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055780547

taram

seadnamac wrote: »

It's listed as a Diploma/Masters. What exactly is that? Which one is it? If you look at the complete list of postgrads it's even more confusing with a variety of different qualification titles..

I assume it's both, in that as a class you might all study 8 modules, then Masters people do independant research to get their MSc rather than dipolma. At least that's how it works in the UK uni I'm doing my MSc at.

Another course on that site states this:
"Course Content
For the MSc, students undertake eight taught modules plus the research dissertation. Students on the Diploma course only take the eight taught modules. Students can opt to complete a total of four modules and graduate with the Heriot-Watt University Postgraduate Certificate. Each taught module represents around 150 hours of student effort and the dissertation represents 600 hours."

If it doubt, drop them an e-mail

Think the UK must be quite different for postgrad progression than Ireland, I got a 2:2, accepted in UK to MSc, will be accepted to PhD based on MSc, equally a friend got a 1st and he was accepted straight to the same type of PhD in the same uni. My classmates who are doing diplomas in the subject are taking them prior to starting PhDs, while they may be fully qualified biologists with 1sts in their undergrads, they don't have the relevant experience or knowledge in a specialistic field, hence the dipolma as a 'top up'. Then straight into a PhD.

seadnamac

taram wrote: »

I assume it's both, in that as a class you might all study 8 modules, then Masters people do independant research to get their MSc rather than dipolma. At least that's how it works in the UK uni I'm doing my MSc at.

Another course on that site states this:
"Course Content
For the MSc, students undertake eight taught modules plus the research dissertation. Students on the Diploma course only take the eight taught modules. Students can opt to complete a total of four modules and graduate with the Heriot-Watt University Postgraduate Certificate. Each taught module represents around 150 hours of student effort and the dissertation represents 600 hours."

Thanks that makes a bit more sense alright. The main difference I've noticed between post-grads in Ireland and in the UK is the cost of them. I could do a planning masters in UCC which would take two years at a cost of eight and a half grand a year (17,000 total!), or I could do it almost anywhere in the UK, all fully accredited, lasting ONE year for about five grand! It's some difference. Don't know if that's reflected across all disiplines.

The more I hear lately though there doesn't seem to be much of a future in the planning field so I might try and branch off into something else...

JohnMearsheimer

seadnamac wrote: »

Thanks that makes a bit more sense alright. The main difference I've noticed between post-grads in Ireland and in the UK is the cost of them. I could do a planning masters in UCC which would take two years at a cost of eight and a half grand a year (17,000 total!), or I could do it almost anywhere in the UK, all fully accredited, lasting ONE year for about five grand! It's some difference. Don't know if that's reflected across all disiplines.

The more I hear lately though there doesn't seem to be much of a future in the planning field so I might try and branch off into something else...

I did a postgrad in the UK and some of the Irish friends I made there were studying planning (postgrad level). None of them are currently working in planning. Also, from my class in UCC, 3 people went on to do postgrads in planning. 2 did it in UCC and one in QUB. All 3 are now in Australia.......not working as planners. I would give planning some very careful thought.

As regards the postgrad diploma/masters thing I would not consider them equal. Again some Irish students I knew in the UK that were doing Postgrad Diplomas in Psychology were doing 2nd and 3rd year undergrad level classes.

Sid_Justice

I think this has been said before but I like typing early in the morning.

Generally speaking, the post-graduate diploma is a graduate taught education usually of 2 semesters in length (same as one typical undergraduate year). Usually (by that I mean in my experience), post-graduate diplomas are aimed at those who didn't do a undergraduate degree in that particular area. Popular areas for Post-graduate Diplomas are IT, Accounting, Marketing. Other Graduate Diplomas like Education, don't really have a specific undergraduate area, I'd say the same goes for Planning and other ad ons like Health and Safety.

On the other hand, A Masters Degree, MSc or MA etc. can either be taught or by research. Usually they are broken into a taught part and a thesis/dissertation part. Thus, some enterprising colleges, offer MSc and PostGraduate diplomas at the same time, those that fail or opt out of the Msc can avail of the PGDIP while others can go on for the MSc.

More enterprising Colleges offer post graduate diplomas were the bulk of the modules are sourced from undergraduate modules. So as a previous poster mentioned, it may not be unusual for a person to do a PostGradDIp and instead of being in a class or people doing the same course, they're in modules with 3rd and 4th years (and possibly 2nd).

Having said that, it's more unusual for a masters to actually be made up of any undergraduate modules (although there are exceptions). In fact the vast majority of MSc are genuine MSc in which all the topics are of an advanced nature aimed specifically at graduates from a certain area.

briano.de.rhino

sorry to revive this thread but I have a question!

Im looking to do a GRADUATE DIPLOMA IN INTERACTIVE MEDIA in Senior College Dun Laoighaire.

It doesnt say it is a POSTGRAD dip. Just grad diploma. is this undergraduate diploma then??

The second year is an advanced diploma. and you have the option to go straight to final year in Swansea of a Bsc or Ba in multimedia.

Thanks,
Brian.

claire h

That sounds like very strange titling there - should be an undergraduate diploma by the sounds of it!

briano.de.rhino

Yes very confusing. you are required to have a degree in something to be eligible though which suggests postgrad. I hope to get in on relevant exxperience.

CatFromHue

i dont think undergraduate diplomas exist anymore. as far as i know they're called level 7 degrees or something like that.

your course sounds like a post grad course at the level below masters.

go to the structure tab on the below link for a bit more info

http://www.dcu.ie/prospective/deginfo.php?classname=CAMG&originating_school=21