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6th of november March (Union's ?)

soldering iron

What do you think of the idea of the March around the city this Friday, what is the real reason the Unions are TRYING to bring there member on to the streets of the Nation.
I believe that it will be another waste of time, and the money that the worker will not get by partaking in the event. We marched in the "80 for the P.A.Y.E. tax system to be made fairer, what did happen the Unions when into bed with the government and we (private sector) got just the scraps from the Table. The Waterford Crystal worker where the driving force behind these Marches and we all know that happened to them very Gallant and Brave Women& men. (Screwed)

If the government thinks the Public sector is paid too much, why did the same government allow the Benchmarking to go ahead. Who is responsible for the Benchmarking of the these jobs that showed that they were under paid, will that committee be held Responsible (NO)

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Cabaal

Simple way of looking at things,

Think of the goverment as a company, now a company needs to be profitable and can't start loosing huge amounts of money and going into crazy debt.

During good times companys can make good and bad decisions, (lets be hoest the Gov did both)

Sadly the goverment currently has problems, while we could debate the reasons why its pointless now as it WILL NOT change the current situation which must be sorted.

So the gov like a company needs to restructure as you can't simply up the prices of your products to bring in the extra cash (keep upping tax's) there's only so much you can put things up by before the customer won't pay anymore.

Anyway as with any company, required cutbacks include paycuts and layoffs, now the public sector don't want this as they feel hard done by yet anyone in the private sector has already had this (everyone knows a load of people that have lost their jobs)

If the public sector ain't careful they'll have the IMF come in and they won't know what hit them if they do come in.

baronflyguy

Why dont they march on a sunday to make their point?
They will still get the news coverage, make their point they are unhappy and the majority of their union members wont loose out on a days pay. Win win around I would think. But that would be the sensible thing to do and unions are not sensible.

I'm all for benchmarking but it has to be a two way system whereby salaries need to decrease when compared with private sector where salaries have decreased..
Also salaries in public sector should be performance related. If someone is good they should be rewarded, if someone is crap they dont deserve more money.

Bringing it back to a waterford related topic, I think it would be bad for business if the city is disrupted on friday.

The taxi disruption was a disaster PR for them and only made people angry at the way they interrupted normal business. I have yet to meet anyone who supported the 'action' of the last taxi strike in the city.

baronflyguy

Cabaal wrote: »

If the public sector ain't careful they'll have the IMF come in and they won't know what it them if they do come in.

I dont think many people understand we are borrowing over 400 million a week to pay public sector services and jobs. The IMF will come in with an iron fist if they don't see that borrowing stopped soon.

I think the Unions should be trying to convince their members that change is needed to salaries.
Personally I think it should be a staggered salary cut. for example, someone in the public sector under say 25k shouldn't be affected.
RTE did something similar to this to their staff and i thought it was a good way of protecting staff on low wages.

If the Government hasn’t the capacity to do what’s needed, then others will come in, like the IMF, and overnight they will make decisions.

The IMF’s solutions would be much more severe: They will immediately start cutting expenditure by maybe 30% or 40% — that is a fact.

Cabaal

baronflyguy wrote: »

I dont think many people understand we are borrowing over 400 million a week to pay public sector services and jobs. The IMF will come in with an iron fist if they don't see that borrowing stopped soon.

I fully agree, people don't seem to see how insanely nuts it is to continue borrowing this amount of money on a weekly basis.

The gov can't continue to pay its wages its as simply as that, if the IMF come in job cuts will be first on the agenda.

Now the public sector will say they have it hard but I know enough people in the sector to know that there's people working in it that basically do notyhing each day but they can't be fired...thats insane!

If you worked in the any company and you pissed around and took two hour lunches and **** loads of sick days you'd be gotten rid of, the same should apply for the gov.

I think the Unions should be trying to convince their members that change is needed to salaries.
Personally I think it should be a staggered salary cut. for example, someone in the public sector under say 25k shouldn't be affected.
RTE did something similar to this to their staff and i thought it was a good way of protecting staff on low wages.

The sad thing is they won't even try this,
Instead they'll bitch and moan and when the IMF does come in they'll wish they just did what the gov is asking now.

We all know the situation is ****e we all know bad decisions were made but sadly all some people want to do is blame the gov....well lads look around its not like the world is in much better shape and the gov had nothing to do with other countrys.

People are extremely short sighted and just want to play the blame game, the don't seem to realise that this does not fix the current issues which must be fixed regardless of who's in power.

Cabaal

baronflyguy wrote: »

Bringing it back to a waterford related topic, I think it would be bad for business if the city is disrupted on friday.

The taxi disruption was a disaster PR for them and only made people angry at the way they interrupted normal business. I have yet to meet anyone who supported the 'action' of the last taxi strike in the city.

Agreed, taxi strike worked very badly for them.

If the public sector want to strike they will be hard pressed to get support....if they start affecting the normal joe's job/day off experience then they'll get even less.

People are finding things hard as they are now and don't want to be pissed off even more when they are just shopping in town trying to get through their daily lives.

googlefan

The primary teachers have also balloted their members I see. They could have easily made a demonstration any day last week which they had off.

baronflyguy

So who exactly is going on strike this friday?
What time is this march organised for?
If a public servant/civil servant or whatever, walks out do they get docked for full day or just the hour?

What services will not be functioning?
It is the least the unions could let the public know about.

All I can make of this strike on Friday is that people who are not part of this have to take time off work to mind their kids who should be in school.

It's kind of ironic really that the people who claim they cant take another pay cut have no problem balloting their union to organise a strike on a working day and not get paid for it.

I'd have more respect for the union march if it was held on a Sunday when minimal impact to others would be respected.

Does this strike mean that we have FREE parking in the city centre (not in the private car parks obviously) if the parking wardens are out on strike?

Mossy Monk

Does anyone know if public transport will be affected by this strike?

Mr Goon

Nobody is going on strike this friday to the best of my knowledge. It's a day of protest and the unions have asked those that can organise time off/have the day off to support it. Those that are in work will continue to work.

My understanding is that services will not be affected, certainly not in the area I am in anyway.

baronflyguy

Mr Goon wrote: »

Nobody is going on strike this friday to the best of my knowledge. It's a day of protest and the unions have asked those that can organise time off/have the day off to support it. Those that are in work will continue to work.

My understanding is that services will not be affected, certainly not in the area I am in anyway.

Mr Goon, thanks for clarifying. You are correct, according to news reports/articles this friday is not a strike just a march. Apologies for mentioning the word strike.

Do you know what time it is scheduled for and the route it will be taking?
I just don't want to be near the city centre and stuck in traffic.

Mr Goon

baronflyguy wrote: »

Do you know what time it is scheduled for and the route it will be taking?
I just don't want to be near the city centre and stuck in traffic.

I'm not sure of the details to be honest. all I can tell you is that workers on the Industrial Estate are meeting on Brownes Road at 1.30pm and the march starts from the Glen at 2.30pm. I have no other information I'm afraid.

soldering iron

I heard The SIPTU rep on the radio this Morning, it just confirms to me that unions want to Run the Country now.

If we as workers want to hurt this goverment then we ALL have to down tool and stay out untill a fairer systm is found.

Cabaal

soldering iron wrote: »

If we as workers want to hurt this goverment then we ALL have to down tool and stay out untill a fairer systm is found.

Yep, sure we all know fecking over the economy so much that the IMF will come in to save us is a fantastic idea :rolleyes:

Your comments make it sound like some sort of "revenge" striking which frankly is insane and foolish

baronflyguy

soldering iron wrote: »

If we as workers want to hurt this goverment then we ALL have to down tool and stay out untill a fairer systm is found.

How about voting at the ballot box?

soldering iron

baronflyguy wrote: »

How about voting at the ballot box?

When the Lisbon treaty was rejected in a matter of days the government of this country decided to rerun the election, in the mean time they have made a complete cock up of this country, but will the rerun the national election NO.
This government need to be brought down by the people for the people

Cabaal

soldering iron wrote: »

When the Lisbon treaty was rejected in a matter of days the government of this country decided to rerun the election, in the mean time they have made a complete cock up of this country, but will the rerun the national election NO.
This government need to be brought down by the people for the people

Thanks you've just confirmed that atleast your reasons for striking are purely revenge, nice!
:rolleyes:

As I've said before this of all the reasons in the world is the most foolish reason for wanting to do something like this.

soldering iron

Cabaal wrote: »

Thanks you've just confirmed that atleast your reasons for striking are purely revenge, nice!
:rolleyes:

As I've said before this of all the reasons in the world is the most foolish reason for wanting to do something like this.

This goverment need to be brought down if withdrawing our labour is what it take then so be it.

Living in a ivory tower can detatch you form real life, or maybe one of the bailout boys that took the profit and gave the loss to the IRISH taxpayer.

Psychedelic

Hang on a sec....this march on the 6th is about protesting against pay cuts to public sector workers, nothing to do with bringing down the Government.

soldering iron

Psychedelic wrote: »

Hang on a sec....this march on the 6th is about protesting against pay cuts to public sector workers, nothing to do with bringing down the Government.

Pig will fly (Swine flu)
and
A black man will be elected in the US.

Read between the lines, union want to run the country

marlin vs

Marching is for soldiers, it's a waste of time.

deise blue

Psychedelic wrote: »

Hang on a sec....this march on the 6th is about protesting against pay cuts to public sector workers, nothing to do with bringing down the Government.

This march is to protest about Government cutbacks generally including any cuts to social welfare such as dole payments and children's allowance.
It is not only about cuts to public sector pay.

thebiglad

deise blue wrote: »

This march is to protest about Government cutbacks generally including any cuts to social welfare such as dole payments and children's allowance.
It is not only about cuts to public sector pay.

Surely if salaries are reducing then it is right that dole etc also reduce - the gap between dole and salaries must be such that dole does not become an attractive option.

Before anyone starts, I was on dole this year for 6 months and have returned to employment earning 25% less for a very similar role - that is now the going rate when recruiting.

So long as prices drop (and yes I know most of us have a mortgage underpinning our monthly expenditure) then the impact should be offset.

Quite simply the country cannot carry on as it is.

Cabaal

deise blue wrote: »

This march is to protest about Government cutbacks generally including any cuts to social welfare such as dole payments and children's allowance.
It is not only about cuts to public sector pay.

Actually the march is the public sector protesting about job cuts and pay cuts that will affect them (remember we pay them), now the public sector is trying to swing it so the march is also about the private sector but in reality it is not.

Sadly the dole must be cut the same as the public sector pay bill must be cut, further to this jobs must go in the public sector.

We all know that very few people that are unemployed came from the public sector.

deise blue

Cabaal wrote: »

Actually the march is the public sector protesting about job cuts and pay cuts that will affect them (remember we pay them), now the public sector is trying to swing it so the march is also about the private sector but in reality it is not.

Sadly the dole must be cut the same as the public sector pay bill must be cut, further to this jobs must go in the public sector.

We all know that very few people that are unemployed came from the public sector.

You are wrong , the march is to give people from all sectors of society an opportunity to protest against the government's mooted cuts whether they be cuts to jobs , pay , welfare , children's allowance etc.
I'm in the private sector and will be meeting with other colleagues so that we can attend the march together

Cabaal

deise blue wrote: »

You are wrong , the march is to give people from all sectors of society an opportunity to protest against the government's mooted cuts whether they be cuts to jobs , pay , welfare , children's allowance etc.
I'm in the private sector and will be meeting with other colleagues so that we can attend the march together

I'm curious to what you think is a solution to cuts and the huge amount of money that the goverment is overspending each day,
- If the Gov ups taxes you'll march
- If the gov cuts payouts for stuff you'll march
- If the gov does job cuts you'll march

So what is the solution that you will accept?

The current situation can not continue for the long term and that should be obvious to anyone, sadly hard decisions have to be made and this isn't just the gov saying this this is the OECD and the EU.

If you don't want higher taxes, job cuts and benefit cuts then fine march away and strike all you want and we'll wait for the IMF and they'll we'll all suffer like nothing experienced before.

deise blue

Cabaal wrote: »

I'm curious to what you think is a solution to cuts and the huge amount of money that the goverment is overspending each day,
- If the Gov ups taxes you'll march
- If the gov cuts payouts for stuff you'll march
- If the gov does job cuts you'll march

So what is the solution that you will accept?

The current situation can not continue for the long term and that should be obvious to anyone, sadly hard decisions have to be made and this isn't just the gov saying this this is the OECD and the EU.

If you don't want higher taxes, job cuts and benefit cuts then fine march away and strike all you want and we'll wait for the IMF and they'll we'll all suffer like nothing experienced before.

You should never work on assumption !
I have absolutely no problem with higher taxes , property tax , wealth tax and an increase in capital gains tax to 40%, at least on that basis there would be an equitable solution to our problems , if the general presumption is that the public sector workers earn more then with an equitable tax system they will pay more.
Talking about the OECD report did you see where they said we have a smaller public service sector than moct of the EU15 countries ?
The OECD also recommend that the tax position needs to be reconfigured.
I for one have no problem in paying increased taxes until we get out of our difficulties.
Anyway must sign off now - off to the march !

baronflyguy

deise blue wrote: »

You should never work on assumption !
I have absolutely no problem with higher taxes , property tax , wealth tax and an increase in capital gains tax to 40%, ....

I dont mind a lot of things but if they introduce property tax we are stuck with it for life. Salaries can go up and down. Tax bands can go up and down. But introducing a brand new property tax is hard to swallow for me. Once this is implemented there is no going back even when the economy gets better. The idea my parents who have paid off their mortgage and retired would have to pay again for their property is just crazy.Dick Spring tried to introduce it back in the 90s and he lost his voters.

deise blue wrote: »

Talking about the OECD report did you see where they said we have a smaller public service sector than most of the EU15 countries ?
The OECD also recommend that the tax position needs to be reconfigured.
I for one have no problem in paying increased taxes until we get out of our difficulties.

Michael D Higgins was on Monchrieff yesterday and he basically was saying the OECD is a EU civil servant body, they feed off what Lenihan and his dept have told them. They are not really that independent because they are funded by the EU. Only 2 years ago the same think tank said Irishs banks are in a good state. They said that because the irish banks were covering up themselves and also the OECD was going on what the dept of financee in Ireland believed was the current status back then. We all know now the regulartor and the banks were covering up and putting a brave face on what was really happening.
What you heard yesterday is what Lenihan would really like to say but cant because he has to be diplomatic not to offend people, unions and voters etc. Hence why you saw Lenihan nodding at everything thing the OECD guy was saying. It was good for OECD to say it because I think some people needed an outside body to say the bloody obvious of what Lenihan has to do.

deise blue wrote: »

Anyway must sign off now - off to the march !

Bring an umbrella.

baronflyguy

deise blue wrote: »

You are wrong , the march is to give people from all sectors of society an opportunity to protest against the government's mooted cuts whether they be cuts to jobs , pay , welfare , children's allowance etc.
I'm in the private sector and will be meeting with other colleagues so that we can attend the march together

To me, if the march was to include private sectors then it would be organised after 6pm after end of business hours or a sunday where you would get maximum turnout.

This is a union organised march, I'm not part of any union nor would I waste my money on there narrow minded solutions and waffle they talk about on the radio. I'll make my protest on the ballot paper.

Cabaal

deise blue wrote: »

if the general presumption is that the public sector workers earn more then with an equitable tax system they will pay more.

I don't presume the public sector is paid more, my problem with the public sector is the fact that poor performers in the sector stay for life and get their pay increases anyway.

I've seen it happen, people that can't be fired due to their contracts...its insane.

In addition to this alot of people in the sector see the sick days as extra holidays, thats never right.

shapez

Cabaal wrote: »

I don't presume the public sector is paid more, my problem with the public sector is the fact that poor performers in the sector stay for life and get their pay increases anyway.

I've seen it happen, people that can't be fired due to their contracts...its insane.

In addition to this alot of people in the sector see the sick days as extra holidays, thats never right.

And what about the ones who do work hard, go beyond the call of duty and are never recognised for their achievements in what they specialize in?

What I've seen is the people you speak about get into positions in their workplace that they shouldn't have gotten in the first place. And when management discovers this they can't move them and what happens, Another job is created out of thin air to clean up the mess!!