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Policing and Justice

Fiann

Anyone have an opinion on what it will mean for the North when devolution of policing and justice authority from Westminster to Stormont?

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Paul4As

aquascrotum wrote: »

Even the most moderate unionist/nationalist who would prefer to vote on an issue other than the fundamental outlook of a given party on the national question will invariably revert to green/blue mode simply because of scaremongering and distaste at the thought of an extreme of the "other side" getting in.

100% spot on my friend!!! I am not overly unionist or nationalist (I have more pressing concerns in life such as work, family and friends)...but I would vote with the party which was more likely to succeed on the existence or non-existence of Northern Ireland as part of the UK if push really came to shove!!!

Fiann wrote: »

One-upmanship has always been the name of the game in NI. How long will the British government tolerate such childish behavior?

The British Government has put up with a lot more than childish behavior in Northern Ireland over the last 40 years...I think they will be able to cope for another 20 years...until the next generation of hopefully less unionist/nationalist driven voters are able to affect things through the ballot box!!!

Fiann

One-upmanship has always been the name of the game in NI. How long will the British government tolerate such childish behavior?

Even today First Minister Peter Robinson’s assertion his party would only agree to transferring responsibilities for policing and justice from Westminster if changes were made to the current process of managing contentious marches in the six counties.

Robert Ingersoll hit the nail on the head when he said:

Who can overestimate the progress of the world if all the money wasted in superstition could be used to elevate and civilize mankind?

aquascrotum

Fiann wrote: »

The transfer of policing and justice will be in the hands of local politicians, and if the people are unhappy with the direction, they are taking, than the people can elect other politicians who will be reflective of what the people want. So in essence the local populace will always be in charge.

What is the relevance of 20 years?

Because it will be 20 years or 2 generations before elections and politics in this country could even contemplate moving beyond a sectarian headcount. And while a sectarian headcount exists and is the primary driver come election time, politics in the intervening period will be determined by who out of SF/SDLP can be the most green and who out of UUP/DUP/TUV can be the most red white and blue for their respective electorates, regardless of the "real" issues in the mean time.

Even the most moderate unionist/nationalist who would prefer to vote on an issue other than the fundamental outlook of a given party on the national question will invariably revert to green/blue mode simply because of scaremongering and distaste at the thought of an extreme of the "other side" getting in.

In the meantime we will have a "neutral" puppet justice minister whose appointment lies outside of D'hondt (think thats the case) being twisted and pulled from pillar to post by 2 parties playing political silly buggers. Meanwhile life goes on. Yay.

Fiann

aquascrotum wrote: »

As a symbolic move its important.

In terms of it meaning damn all on a day to day basis I suspect it'll do nothing. We're 20yrs away yet from meaningful real-world politics instead of ludicrous daily point scoring.

The transfer of policing and justice will be in the hands of local politicians, and if the people are unhappy with the direction, they are taking, than the people can elect other politicians who will be reflective of what the people want. So in essence the local populace will always be in charge.

What is the relevance of 20 years?

aquascrotum

As a symbolic move its important.

In terms of it meaning damn all on a day to day basis I suspect it'll do nothing. We're 20yrs away yet from meaningful real-world politics instead of ludicrous daily point scoring.

pow wow

Noted. I meant that the try it with your fingers crossed kinda thing isn't a chance they can afford to take with a topic like that in NI.

Fiann

pow wow wrote: »

Faith won't get us very far. I think in an ideal world it's the right thing to do, and I do hope it works, I just don't know if it will. Nothing ventured though I guess.

"Faith" was a strange terminology for me to use since I am a life long atheist.

pow wow

Faith won't get us very far. I think in an ideal world it's the right thing to do, and I do hope it works, I just don't know if it will. Nothing ventured though I guess.

Fiann

This is one of the most important issue under discussion in the six counties, second only to the GFA. Sooner or later it will effect everyone, and we need to get it right.

THE financial package from the British Government to support the transfer of powers over Policing and Justice from Britain to the North of Ireland was published on Wednesday.

Among other things the letter pledges that:

The North’s Executive will have access to reserve funds to support policing and justice in the event of exceptional circumstances, while the Treasury will also make available an additional fund up to £37.4m (€41.5m) in 2010/11.
Money will be made available to complete the construction of a new police training college.
An additional £20m (€22m) per year to the end of 2012/13 will help overcome a huge backlog in legal aid payments being faced by the court service. A further one-off payment of £12m (€13.3m) will ease pressure on the courts, with a promise to provide up to a further £39m (€43.2m) if necessary.
The Government is to gift four former British military sites to the North’s Executive, including in Omagh where there are plans to use former British military-owned land to build a new schools campus.

It’s a substantial package, worth in the region of £1 Billion and I have faith it is the right way forward.

Paul4As

I think it is incredibly funny how the Northern Ireland powers that be can't even get their education system sorted...as in the 11 plus debacle...yet they are now expected to sort out law and order for themselves!!!

And of the two main parties that are dictating policing and justice...one is made up of some convicted terrorists who up until not so long ago were part of a movement that killed policemen...the other is made up of MPs who like to try to claim £300 off tax-payers for a pen...politicians just greedy for money!!!
I think the average person on the street in Northern Ireland could do a better job than the eejits we have in government!!!
But as they often say...only in Norn Iron!!!:eek:

Raspberryhardon

For me personally I want to show Belfast in a postive light and when topics like this air in forums it only causes trouble so thats me out of this one ive given my humble opinion and thats that.

As Muffler said everybody will have there different points of view on things.

Sticking out!

dlofnep

muffler wrote: »

You can debate this topic lads without having a dig at each other.

Just be careful with the comments please.

No problem. Not having a dig btw. Just discussing the topic, in order to balance the issue.

dlofnep

Raspberryhardon wrote: »

Again I must state most normal people my age arent concerned about things like this they just want to get on with things.

So, people who are concerned about fair and balanced policing are "abnormal"? There must be alot of abnormal people in Belfast then. And actually, you weren't speaking for yourself - You were speaking on behalf of "most people your age". Just to be clear about that, which is why I responded.

Raspberryhardon wrote: »

And topics like this should maybe be placed in a political thread.

Well, it is an issue which Belfast is affected by. Local political issues are often discussed in other regional forums.

I don't see the problem with discussing a related political issue in the Belfast forum.

muffler

You can debate this topic lads without having a dig at each other.

Just be careful with the comments please.

dlofnep

Raspberryhardon wrote: »

I agree with muffler here each to there own. Most of my friends and people my age arent really concerned about this.

Speak for yourself. I have many friends in Belfast who are concerned about the accountability and devolution of policing.

Paul4As

Hopefully with the devolution of policing and justice in Northern Ireland this will mean more police out in the community...and when I say out in the community I mean not out in the local takeaway!!!

Hopefully it will also mean better coverage of the policeforce in border areas where many residents feel vunerable!!!

Fiann

dlofnep wrote: »

It will mean a more accountable, and more balanced police force. The PSNI is still not to where it should be.

That is correct; accountable is the important point.

muffler

Raspberryhardon wrote: »

Topics like this drags Belfast back and nowadays thats not what Belfast is about IMHO.

Id have to agree.

From a moderating point of view Id hope that this topic wont turn into a "political debate" as there is a forum for politics.

Raspberryhardon

Fiann wrote: »

Anyone have an opinion on what it will mean for the North when devolution of policing and justice authority from Westminster to Stormont?

I agree with muffler here each to there own. Most of my friends and people my age arent really concerned about this.

Topics like this drags Belfast back and nowadays thats not what Belfast is about IMHO.

dlofnep

It will mean a more accountable, and more balanced police force. The PSNI is still not to where it should be.

muffler

Most likely it will mean different things to to different people. Certain groups and individuals will always put their own slant on it.