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Two accidents on bypass in the last week

romah

A fatal accident happened on the bypass tonight ..but also there was another accident past the doora exit last week also ..

is this the result of the increased speed limits ...

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Run_to_da_hills

It depends on the nature and location of the accident.

buck65

I came on this last night. It looked like the car involved crossed the bypass through the concrete divider and stalled in the middle. To me it looked like the driver had trouble (heart attack perhaps?) before the crash as it was a straight stretch of road.
He was heading toward Limerick I was coming the other way. The road was closed and we were all escorted back the way we came to Ennis.

Cushla

My dad came on that accident too. He reckoned one of the cars was driving in the wrong direction ~ possibly wrong turn at the roundabout or something like that.

Gregor Samsa

The Times report that last night's crash was a 2 car collision (with one woman unfortunately killed) at junction 13 (Tulla Road), on the North bound lane (to Galway).

Pure speculation here, but I wonder was it anything to do with the ridiculously short on ramps that junction has? There's no way to get up to 120km/h on the 100m stretch provided, resulting in cars being forced to join the traffic at way lower speeds then the traffic on the m'way are doing.

Edit: Times article: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1007/breaking1.htm

Gregor Samsa

Cushla wrote: »

My dad came on that accident too. He reckoned one of the cars was driving in the wrong direction ~ possibly wrong turn at the roundabout or something like that.

When the bypass first opened, there were lots of reported instances of drivers going the wrong way at the Tulla Road junction. The designers of the bypass, in their infinite wisdom, put the Galway junction on the south, and the Limerick one on the North - which is counter intuitive to many drivers (despite the signage). So coming from Ennis, you turn right off the Tulla road at the roundabout to go to Galway, even though Galway is to your left. Some drivers were getting confused, and turning onto the bypass the wrong way, thinking that they were going to Limerick.

Since the upgrade to motorway, they've installed orange bollards at the bottom of the junction to prevent this, but I'm sure it's still confusing to people. Meeting someone driving the wrong way on a motorway is my worst nightmare :eek:

drunken_munky52

phutyle wrote: »

When the bypass first opened, there were lots of reported instances of drivers going the wrong way at the Tulla Road junction. The designers of the bypass, in their infinite wisdom, put the Galway junction on the south, and the Limerick one on the North - which is counter intuitive to many drivers (despite the signage). So coming from Ennis, you turn right off the Tulla road at the roundabout to go to Galway, even though Galway is to your left. Some drivers were getting confused, and turning onto the bypass the wrong way, thinking that they were going to Limerick.

Since the upgrade to motorway, they've installed orange bollards at the bottom of the junction to prevent this, but I'm sure it's still confusing to people. Meeting someone driving the wrong way on a motorway is my worst nightmare :eek:

Unless you have a compass built into your head, I can not see how most people would make this sort of mistake based on that assumption. Its worth noting that this junction is there to service the needs of Tulla bound traffic mainly, so when they we designing it, they had that in mind.

But at the end of the day, this junction is complete and utter death trap. Three factors that are biggest danger are:
i) The short distance of the on/off ramps
ii) The width of the on/off ramps
iii) The sharpness of the turn coming on and off the carraigeway

The NRA say that it is within specifications, but there have been many incidents here since the bypass opened and alarm bells still are not sounding. Now that the first death has occured, is anything going to be finally done about it?

Gregor Samsa

drunken_munky52 wrote: »

Unless you have a compass built into your head, I can not see how most people would make this sort of mistake based on that assumption. Its worth noting that this junction is there to service the needs of Tulla bound traffic mainly, so when they we designing it, they had that in mind

I don't think people need a compass to know which direction Galway and Limerick are from Ennis. Sure, it was mainly older drivers that were reported to be going the wrong way, but it makes no sense that they built the junction the way they did, given that it would have cost the exact same to build it with the roads in the correct orientation. Coming from Ennis and turning right on the roundabout to go to Galway makes no sense, when it would have been just as easy to build the junction on the left of the Tulla road.

I know plenty of people who took the wrong exit at the beginning, based on the orientation - OK, they didn't end up driving the wrong way on the motorway, but they did have to carry on and take the next exit to get themselves back on track.

The Irish Times are now reporting that one of the cars was indeed believed to be driving the wrong way on the motorway, so it could well have been a factor.

chuckles30

According to the reports on the radio this morning, there had already been reports about a car travelling the wrong way on the motorway before the accident. I'm sorry, but I just don't understand how it could happen - the signposting is clear and there's no way in hell you could mistake what direction you're supposed to be going when you join the motorway, you'd practically have to do a u-turn to go the opposite way.........and I use the Tulla Rd junction all the time..........though I do agree the merging lanes should be longer at that particular junction.

Gregor Samsa

chuckles30 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand how it could happen - the signposting is clear and there's no way in hell you could mistake what direction you're supposed to be going when you join the motorway, you'd practically have to do a u-turn to go the opposite way

I'm not justifying it at all, and I use junction 13 every day going to Shannon, but I would assume that if someone could just turn to the right before the orange bollards, and head out onto the motorway via the exit lane. It would be an act of pure stupidity, ignoring multiple signs, road markings and common sense, but speaking from a purely technical viewpoint, it would be easy to do.

Of course, there could be other reasons why the car was going the wrong way, but the fact that there was a car going the wrong way means that it did happen by some means.

bantee

A few months ago, just after the new stretch of bypass opened, I decided to drive up to the Ennistymon turnoff instead of the Clare Inn one.
There was a car in front of me in the right-hand lane with a guy franticly beeping and waving his arms out the window at an elderly man who was driving in the fast lane of the oposite road in the wrong direction :eek:. He wasn't doing more than 50 mph.

A guy in a van sped up in the fast lane on our side and I followed him and we both parked up a 100 meters ahead of the guy, stuck the hazard lights on and jumped the barrier the stop the traffic coming from Galway. We basically stood on the road waving them down, as a head on collision could easily have happened.

Fact is, some people are just not used of these new roads yet and the layouts, and they might not go to Ennis on a regular basis.

This particular elder man had no idea he was on the wrong dual carrigway and one of the guys had a bit of trouble giving him directions back up to the Clare Inn turnoff.

The increased speed limits could potentially contribute to more accidents on this stretch of road.

golden

I use this junction every day both galway bound side and limerick bound side. At no point of the new motorway is there saying the rules of the motorway ie no tractors no pedestrians etc also no road markings as to no entry however this is only a directional arrow and a motorway icon and blue signage.

I would not really put this accident down to speed.

I personally have seen somone drive going on the galway ramp going to the overtaking lane and then going back onto the the tulla/roslevan road ramp. Also a old person cycling towards me on the overtaking lane on the motorway!!!

More than like the accident was caused by human error and unfortunately a life was lost in yesterdays incident.

Gregor Samsa

The Independent is reporting that the woman who died had been travelling all the way from the Barefield junction on the wrong side of the road. So nothing to do with speed.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pensioner-died-in-crash-after-driving-wrong-way-for-3km-1907564.html

Now, while people driving cars should be really competent enough to know what side of the road they're on, the Barefield and Tulla road junctions are sub-standard in regards to layout and signage. This isn't the first time someone has ended up driving on the wrong side on this road, and it's a tragedy that it has come to a point that someone was killed and another injured (and thankfully it wasn't a lot worse).

Dr Kamikazi

A lot of the accidents are caused by elderly drivers going down the motorway the wrong way at 50 km/h, so speed doesn't look likely to be the issue.
I've been driving 120 km/h there since it's been built and since it's quite straight you can easily see any problems coming up, so there's plenty of time to slow down.
In fact, 130-140 km/h would be no problem there and surely could be done quite safely if the people using the motorway where switched on.
However that would then lead to problems with drivers of the 80+ year old persuasion, who don't know where they are, who they are, where they're going, what day it is or why they're here in the first place. And should have been put off the road 20 years ago but because of mealy mouthed crap like "Ooh, but how would poor old Mary get to the shop otherwise" are still allowed to wreak havoc on our roads.
I'm sure it'll be great comfort to the parents of the person who might end up dead because poor auld Mary doesn't know she's going the wrong way down a motorway.
So it's "dem boy racers wot done it" all over again.
Government propaganda and scapegoating at work instead of an intelligent and all inclusive road safety strategy.
It's dem boy racers wot done it, I knew it was dem, even when it was that old lady.

palaver

The woman who died in the aforementioned accident was indeed 70 and she got confused about the roundabouts apparantly.

Elderly drivers are sometimes (!) as bad as the boy racers, more so the male elderly drivers who still think they drive a tractor and rule the road and don't know about indicating or any other rules of the road. It's not just old Mary, it's mostly old Paddy who doesn't know what is what.

But that doesn't mean that old people shouldn't drive at all. It really depends on their mental capacity and their experience. I know quite a lot of elderly people who drive more carefully than any young ones.

By the way: looking at statistics, mostly boy and girl drivers are causing the fatal accidents, not the elderly.

Dr Kamikazi

palaver wrote: »

The woman who died in the aforementioned accident was indeed 70 and she got confused about the roundabouts apparantly.

Elderly drivers are sometimes (!) as bad as the boy racers, more so the male elderly drivers who still think they drive a tractor and rule the road and don't know about indicating or any other rules of the road. It's not just old Mary, it's mostly old Paddy who doesn't know what is what.

But that doesn't mean that old people shouldn't drive at all. It really depends on their mental capacity and their experience. I know quite a lot of elderly people who drive more carefully than any young ones.

By the way: looking at statistics, mostly boy and girl drivers are causing the fatal accidents, not the elderly.

Agreed. But the second group right after them is older drivers.
Also, I would never say "anyone over the age of X should be off the road", that wouldn't be right.
What I would suggest is that there is periodic retesting of everyone on the road.
People treat a driving licence as their God given right to drive on the road, no matter what, when in reality your age, health and certainly medication (tons of drugged up loonies on the roads) can influence your ability to function in traffic.
What I do notice about some elderly country gentlemen (1989 1.1 Fiesta), is that they treat right of way as a matter of seniority.
I've been driving here for 40 years and should therefore come before you.
What they do is wait till you're almost on top of them at 100 km/h and THEN they'll pull out on you.
Sigh.:(

gigglyhumour

poor thing, road accidents are horrible, so long as peole know even the boyracers dont go out to kill or harm on the road. though i do now that piece of road i thought the roundabout helped things

Mcloke

chuckles30 wrote: »

According to the reports on the radio this morning, there had already been reports about a car travelling the wrong way on the motorway before the accident. I'm sorry, but I just don't understand how it could happen - the signposting is clear and there's no way in hell you could mistake what direction you're supposed to be going when you join the motorway, you'd practically have to do a u-turn to go the opposite way.........and I use the Tulla Rd junction all the time..........though I do agree the merging lanes should be longer at that particular junction.

Well I do know what you mean but an example of how someone who doesn't know the roads and roundabouts around the Ennis by-pass could go wrong is the Doora roundabout. As you approach the roundabout, you have the option of going str8 to Doora, right onto the motorway to Limerick or back around on yourself to Ennis. However, as you approach the roundabout there are 3 lanes....now I have only passed my test, however my opinion and other people I have asked regard three lanes at a roundabout as an indication that you can go left, str8 on and further round the roundabout but if you go left at the first junction you will be joining the motorway going to wrong way meeting traffic coming from the galway direction. It is therefore not unforeseeable that someone could end up the wrong way on the motorway!

Dr Kamikazi

Anyone who gets that wrong should be immediately banned from driving for life, referred to psychiatric evaluation, medical tests and also removed from any heavy machinery they're operating.
Apart from the fact that the hard shoulder would be on your wrong side, everyone will beep and flash you like crazy, cars will appear to play chicken with you, but the biggest give away are the signs that say

DANGER
WRONG WAY
TURN BACK

on the off ramp should you happen to go down it.
If anyone fails to spot all of the above we should safely assume he/she is just about slightly more alert than a turnip, needs medical care and attention and should DEFINITELY not be out unsupervised since they are a danger to themselves or others.

Mcloke

Dr Kamikazi wrote: »

Anyone who gets that wrong should be immediately banned from driving for life, referred to psychiatric evaluation, medical tests and also removed from any heavy machinery they're operating.
Apart from the fact that the hard shoulder would be on your wrong side, everyone will beep and flash you like crazy, cars will appear to play chicken with you, but the biggest give away are the signs that say
DANGER
WRONG WAY
TURN BACK
on the off ramp should you happen to go down it.
If anyone fails to spot all of the above we should safely assume he/she is just about slightly more alert than a turnip, needs medical care and attention and should DEFINITELY not be out unsupervised since they are a danger to themselves or others.

I do agree...it would just help if the paint job on the roads did not aid the confusion of these people