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Drunk - telling truth or just drunk

LegacyUser

Ok i kindof brought this up on another thread but wanted to ask people straight out, so I hope thats ok.

So i have been seeing a girl for a few months, she was very hot and cold so i had kindof given up on the whole thing.

Thing is we were quite close despite all the drama and i stll really like her,

Anyway loooooong story short, got a phone call from her last weekend, it was her birthday so she was fairly drunk, but

1st call went along the lines of, I miss you baby, wish you were here, wish i was with you to give you a cuddle and take care of you (i had the flu), your so sweet etc.
Now at this stage she wasn't that drunk from what i could tell so it was really nice and made me feel good...

2nd call 3 hours later, she had just got home and to be honest sounded completely blotto at this stage, but she said like 10 times "i think i love ya" "i miss ya" " i wanna be with ya" etc. etc.
Now she was drunk but the thing is she was playing a song that i had listened to with her a couple of weeks earlier (it seemed to hit home with both of us at the time), and was saying "listen baby, i downloaded our song" i mean its a pretty obscure song she had't heard before so she had obviuosly gone and searched it out, she was also saying (as i said she was drunk) that every song she heard reminded her of me on some way..."i think i love ya etc. etc. this went on for an hour, until i finally convinced her to go to bed...

So my Question really is what do ye think, was the fact that she was drunk letting her voice her true feelings or was it just a drunk talking crap...The thing is if it was just "i love ya" muttered while blotto id disregard, but the whole playing the song and referencing other things such as a gift id given her (nicest thing anyone has ever done for me) it kind of made me think there may be some truth in what she was saying...She is a shy girl and doesn't like the deep and meaningfuls,

Any opinions guys....Im at my wits end

Thanks.

P.S

I did ask her the next day, and got "i do have feeling for you, i think allot of u, I do like you" but "lets just see what happens" But to be hoest (and i regret it), ithink i may have forced her to say those things cos she may have been feeling guilty if she was talking crap the night before, ASi told her that she shouldn't have said it if it wasn't true, that it was just not fair...

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Sinall

The only way to see if someone is telling the truth (drunk or otherwise!) is to see how they back it up or act with you afterwards. Her sober actions are more likely to be her "real actions".

Obviously it would be nice to know that somebody you like is into you too, but I think if she was really mad about you/loved you etc you'd have more to go on than a drunken phone call.

She could well have feelings for you, they just don't seem as strong as the feelings she professed when drunk. In my view the "let's just see what happens" are not the words of someone who thinks they love you.

Oh The Humanity

I agree with the above!

If someone isn't knocking down your door while sober then that's your answer.

Sounds like she knows you are hanging on her every word and she might have just been sentimental or looking for the scorch in a randier drunken moment.

I'd steer clear of her. Mixed messages usually translate as 'no'

Taltos

I'm in 2 minds here.

1 - let's see what happens - could be the words of a cautious person who may have been hurt in the past. My wife used to say this to me for the 1st 6mts we were going out - used to wreck my head - but I understood she was protecting herself - even if it did nearly drive me away

or

2 - drunk and randy as hell hoping you would call around and help her out... But now sober thinking otherwise.

Only way you can find out is to have a nice pleasant chat - maybe go for a bite and just tell her how you feel.
> either it will work or you will find out the truth. But may as well go for it man. Just don't wait any longer - IMO a week is already too long or close to it....

Wibbs

Like the advice in the previous thread I think shes being a headwreck for you. I would be black and white about this. She's either emotionally batty and can't make up her mind, or she's playing you like a fiddle for ego/safety net purposes. Either way she's being selfish. If she's being emotionally batty then unless she cops on, then even if you get her, this battyness will come out in other ways down the line. If it's safety net/ego boost, well that kinda explains itself. Trust me I've dealt with both in my time and neither are worth your energy. I don't care how nice you think she is or how pert her arse is, it's never worth the grief. It really isnt, unless as a brief fling where you dont attach emotionally. Relationships are hard enough going at times for both parties and you don't need to add crazy to the mix.

Try to look at her objectively. Are you with her? No. Are you getting jiggy with it? No. Is she being clear about her intentions? No Is this wrecking your head? Yes. Nuff said IMHO

LegacyUser

TRUTH JUICE? wrote: »

Ok i kindof brought this up on another thread but wanted to ask people straight out, so I hope thats ok.

So i have been seeing a girl for a few months, she was very hot and cold so i had kindof given up on the whole thing.

Thing is we were quite close despite all the drama and i stll really like her,

Anyway loooooong story short, got a phone call from her last weekend, it was her birthday so she was fairly drunk, but

1st call went along the lines of, I miss you baby, wish you were here, wish i was with you to give you a cuddle and take care of you (i had the flu), your so sweet etc.
Now at this stage she wasn't that drunk from what i could tell so it was really nice and made me feel good...

2nd call 3 hours later, she had just got home and to be honest sounded completely blotto at this stage, but she said like 10 times "i think i love ya" "i miss ya" " i wanna be with ya" etc. etc.
Now she was drunk but the thing is she was playing a song that i had listened to with her a couple of weeks earlier (it seemed to hit home with both of us at the time), and was saying "listen baby, i downloaded our song" i mean its a pretty obscure song she had't heard before so she had obviuosly gone and searched it out, she was also saying (as i said she was drunk) that every song she heard reminded her of me on some way..."i think i love ya etc. etc. this went on for an hour, until i finally convinced her to go to bed...

So my Question really is what do ye think, was the fact that she was drunk letting her voice her true feelings or was it just a drunk talking crap...The thing is if it was just "i love ya" muttered while blotto id disregard, but the whole playing the song and referencing other things such as a gift id given her (nicest thing anyone has ever done for me) it kind of made me think there may be some truth in what she was saying...She is a shy girl and doesn't like the deep and meaningfuls,

Any opinions guys....Im at my wits end

Thanks.

P.S

I did ask her the next day, and got "i do have feeling for you, i think allot of u, I do like you" but "lets just see what happens" But to be hoest (and i regret it), ithink i may have forced her to say those things cos she may have been feeling guilty if she was talking crap the night before, ASi told her that she shouldn't have said it if it wasn't true, that it was just not fair...

Do you want her to confess undieing love for you before you even start a relationship.
If you like her, start dating her again, see where it goes.

The best outcome after a few months you both fall madly in love and live happy ever after.
The worst you go out and have some fun, realise it's not love and leave it at that.
Don't be pushing her for a commitment so soon, it could ruin any feeling she actually has for you.

Gyalist

I read your last thread but didn't post to it and still can't honestly understand why you're giving this woman any of your time.

Cut her off and get on with your life. She is enjoying the feeling of power that she gets from toying with your emotions.

More importantly, never trust a person who can only be candid when they are drunk.

As long as you hang around trying to be friends but with an ulterior motive, she will mess you around. Cut her out and get on with your life and when she sees that you are over her, it's likely that she'll come chasing. By then you should be having too much fun to care anyway.

Wibbs

While I agree with b56ybg on some points, the issue here seems to be that she says she only wants to be his "friend" when she's sober and then declares undying luuurve when she's a few ales in. That's the problem. If they were still dating then fine, but as he says shes hot and cold. Great in a tap, but useless in a partner.

I wouldn't (like b56ybg says) declare undying luurve, but I would calmly and clearly ask for her to píss or get off the pot. Basically say "I like you, you often claim to like me, so I would like to see where this takes us both and I'm willing and happy to try that together. But this back and forth is confusing and I don't like to be confused, so would you like to try dating again and see how it goes. If not that's cool too, but you have to understand I won't be around as much and I'm not going to wait either". That kinda thing IMHO anyway. Though again IMHO she would have to be someone with a helluva lot going for her outside of this before I'd even bother TBH. If she does then go for it, but dont wait around for her to make up her mind.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies and your patience I know i sound like a broken record dedicating two threads.

I dunno its probably just hope springs eternal, She was very horny the other night (didn't really mention that) but the thing is she was a fair distance away, there was no way she was hoping id call to her for some (i defo would if she was in town at the time)

It has been a really weird situation right from the beginning, Ive told her straight out to stop playing games...of course she denied that is what she is doing, but said she just isn't sure.....

I think it either one of two things going on here.
1) She does like me, but is trying to protect herself (she has been hurt in the not so distant past) - this makes sense from a lot of things that have happened
2) She has a bit of an attraction, nothing major, doesn't really care but likes the idea of me being so attentive showering her with complements etc. (don't think this is intentional on her part) but it is obvious that she has certain self esteem issues. - again there are aspects that seem to point to this also

Maybe a combination of both, i.e. does like me but not enough to take a risk on a relationship.

I have messed this up too tho, some of the things ive said and done in the last few months, well you could list everything possible to make someone turn away and bolt and ive done it, this is one of the reasons i think that there may be something deeper there also, the fact she is still around..

I guess i'll just have to wait and see, im trying not to give her much more of my time, if im honest i should have packed it in ages ago, there is just a real connection there, whether thats just one sided i dont know..I just can't really make myself give up here, for whatever reason, and this is not by any stretch my usual style...

LegacyUser

Here's my tuppence..

I'm a girl, single, young. I dated a guy, he wasn't for me, I cooled it and that was that.

Buuuut, occasionally when I get drunk I text or call him. Now, no way would I be all, "I love you" but I'm not the mushy sentimental type anyway.

He lives within walking distance and if I'm feel drunk and want to get laid I call him and we hook up. However, I have also called/texted him when I have been away from home and I just feel like flirting with someone, particularly if I haven't been chatted up that night.

The plus point about this is that I know he isn't mad about me. We don't contact or meet each other unless one of us is drunk, we don't spend the night together....it's shag and go.
It works so well BECAUSE we have no feelings for each other.

This guy won't get a whiff of me if I met someone I wanted to be with. Thats the long and the short of it. I am using him, he is using me but we both know it so it's fine.

If I thought he really was into me I wouldn't do what I do. It's mean and cruel to toy with someone like that for the sake of having your ego stroked when you're wasted and feeling horny or need some attention.

nesbitt

Classic Ambivalent. Ah the mixed messages, your amazing but I'm not sure I want a relationship routine...

As Wibbs stated this is classic head wreck scenarios.

If you want a healthy relationship with someone steer well clear. Unless you actually enjoy being let down, hurt and emotionally exhausted avoid the Ambivalent man/woman at all costs.

metrovelvet

Never chase a distancer.

In vino et not always veritas but hyperbole.

G-Money

In my mind, it's usually pretty obvious whether I like someone. Either I do, or I don't. There's not much of a gray area. I don't know how it is for others but that's how it is for me.

She sounds like she will do your head in, if she hasn't already. If I was a betting man her conversation will go something like this...

"Lets just see what happens" - "Lets just be friends" - "I met this guy..."

Just leave it and move on. As someone else says, indecisiveness like this usually ends up as a No. Better to preempt it. Sometimes the "reject them before they reject you" policy is a lifesaver. You've nothing to lose and everything to gain by cutting this girl off now.

shellyboo

OP, what it comes down to is this...

OP 1 wrote: »

1) She does like me, but is trying to protect herself (she has been hurt in the not so distant past) - this makes sense from a lot of things that have happened

See that? That doesn't actually exist. That is an excuse that people make up when they don't really like someone but want to keep them hanging around, or is a fairy tale which people tell themselves when someone doesn't like them.

Think about it. Think about what fancying someone feels like. Think about the butterflies, and how happy it makes you, and how silly. Now mutiply that by ten, because women are eejits when they fancy someone - we really are very silly.

When that feeling - that first rush of fancying someone - exists, protecting yourself does not even enter your brain. You're off in fairytale land, with your Prince Charming on his white horse and you've already got the kids' names picked. That's what liking someone is about.

If you're thinking "oh I want to protect myself" then you don't really like them all that much. If you're not prepared to take the risk - then you don't really like them all that much.

That might be harsh, but that's the reality. You are her safety net. Stop being a doormat.

LegacyUser

grandmaster wrote: »

In my mind, it's usually pretty obvious whether I like someone. Either I do, or I don't. There's not much of a gray area. I don't know how it is for others but that's how it is for me.

She sounds like she will do your head in, if she hasn't already. If I was a betting man her conversation will go something like this...

"Lets just see what happens" - "Lets just be friends" - "I met this guy..."

Just leave it and move on. As someone else says, indecisiveness like this usually ends up as a No. Better to preempt it. Sometimes the "reject them before they reject you" policy is a lifesaver. You've nothing to lose and everything to gain by cutting this girl off now.

Yeah, i get what your saying, haven't contacted for last 2 days and either has she so,

her conversation has so far gone

shouldn't have happened we're supposed to be friends - i like you too - i like you but hurt recently - lets just be friends - shouldn't have happened we're supposed to be friends - if you calmed down you never know what might happen - i do have feelings for you - "ME THUNK I LURVE YE" - i do like you - i think alot of you - your really important to me - lets see what happens

So you can kind of see what has me confused here, to be fair she has recently moved so is a bit of a journey away at the moment, hence the lets see what happens, things is i think this could actually be a good thing as in.... take things really cool, meet up every other wkd or something for a while,Nothing serious, i dunno...

general consensus seems to be that drink talk was just that, so i suppose i'll take it as such and do my best to walk away, and cut contact...its time i start taking heed of advise i get about this cos i have just gone on instinct so far and it doesn't seem to be getting me anywhere i want to be.....

G-Money

Red alert, red alert. She's just messing you around. Trust me, you'll soon be hearing about some other guy she's met that she "doesn't know what she thinks of" which translates to "I probably want to sleep with him".

Get away.

I was in a similar boat as you and looking back, my biggest regret was not noticing it sooner and telling her to hit the road/cutting things off. It was pretty tough when she said she liked me but "couldn't have a relationship" with me. Yet was more than willing to have "something not serious" with some other guy she just met. Complete and total head f**k. I sort of let on that I would be ok with being friends but I never meant it. She would text me every now and again asking how I was and saying stuff like "i wish it could be different" which looking back sort of is meaningless. I eventually told her I couldn't do the friends thing and that was back in March and we haven't been in touch since. It's at the stage now where I wish I had just not bothered and cut things off at the start. I wouldn't even entertain the thought of speaking to her now.

CDfm

she could be shy. i would take a chance and ask her out.

all in all if she is a nice person she will still be nice after a few drinks and its worth a punt.

Sinall

CDfm wrote: »

she could be shy. i would take a chance and ask her out.

all in all if she is a nice person she will still be nice after a few drinks and its worth a punt.

I think they had previously been on a number of dates together, but the girl decided that she didn't want a relationship and would prefer to be friends.

OP, given that she has already said that she doesn't want a relationship with you (drunken phonecall notwithstanding!) it seems she could be using you as her fall back guy.

CDfm

Maybe, or the OP could invest in a few alcopops and find out.

LegacyUser

CDfm wrote: »

Maybe, or the OP could invest in a few alcopops and find out.

Ha Ha!!

Ya see, this is what has be so confused, its not just the one drunken phone call, its everytime she has a few drinks around me that i get this...
A week before the phone call we went out for a meal, everthing fine, then we both had a cpl too many (infairness we both like a beer a bit too much sometimes) I got the whole i love ya, wanna be with ya etc. back to her place and i obviously tried it on, and she pulled away again giving it the whole "nooo we're mates"...I mean ive made it clear from the start that we are NOT mates and never will be, I want more, im willing to give her space to sort her head if thats what she wants but if we're not gonna happen i'm out!!...i've laid this out, she said ok and a month or so ago we had a goodbye, lovely to meet ya etc.

5 days later, we meet up again, there is NO question of her thinking i want a friendship with her, abd this is what has me irritated too, she said that time we said goodbye, that she only wants to be friends, she was completley honest (and sober as a judge), so i don't think she is the type to string me along because of an ego boost, i.e.i think there is something there from her point of view, eg. "i have feelings from you" now whether this is just a passive thing with no real substance, or whether it is actually something stronger that she is afraid of i dunno, i will assume the former and leave it to her to show otherwise....Ive done all i can now. Iwill say i don't thinl she is doing this intentionally, and as ive said before ive weirded her out in the past by bringing up heavy stuff..."whats happening here, I need an answer" - this would be ok if i was saying it now, (and i have) but i started saying it after like 2 weeks,(I know I know) this is why i am amazed she din't run back then....

for perspectives sake, she seems to be a really mixed up kid...has had issues in her past, and some of the things she has said really makes me think she still has issues, especially with her self esteem, another common thing she says when after a couple is along the lines of "why do you even like me anyway, look at me, im a state(she is absolutley baeutiful a real head turner).....Now before ye start saying why you would want to start anything with someone like this in the first place, fair enough i understand, but ya can't help who you fall for...it would be so much easier if you could!!

CDfm

You have fallen for her so the friendzone isn't an option.

She has feelings for you that are not as strong as yours for her.

The serious bit isthat if she dates other people you will find it a headwreck (not to mention other parts of the body it wrecks

)and her giving you mixed messages is more of that.

You have to say that to her that while she comes on to you then switches of it leaves you confused and means that you don't pursue other "love" interests.All revved up and no place to go.

When I was in college she was a type of girl we called a "hello" girl or a tease. So clear the air with her and if its a no-accept it and move on.That means no to meals out and beers together just you and her in the hope she will come around as currently she has you where she wants you on her terms.

You must be clear about your terms. Forget about her low self esteem issues and all that fluffy stuff. She knows exactly what she is doing. She has fun doing it and you have had fun being on the recieving end of her attention. Now -you want more and should explain that;)

Wibbs

OP1 wrote: »

I got the whole i love ya, wanna be with ya etc. back to her place and i obviously tried it on, and she pulled away again giving it the whole "nooo we're mates"...

She's a headwrecker pure and simple. Too black and white? Too judgemental of me? Maybe, even probably, but from a practical point of view IMHO she's a headwrecker. Is your head wrecked? Yep. Is she the focus of this? Yep. ergo.....

I mean ive made it clear from the start that we are NOT mates and never will be, I want more, im willing to give her space to sort her head if thats what she wants but if we're not gonna happen i'm out!!...i've laid this out, she said ok and a month or so ago we had a goodbye, lovely to meet ya etc.

Good for you and dead right, but... You're saying this, but many of your actions around her don't or didn't back this up. For a start soon after you saw this behaviour you should have walked away on the spot. Cry into your pint on your own or with mates if you had to and fair play, but you should walk and stick to it. Everytime you engage with her in this way, you're prooving to her that this is working in a way. Fair play too as now you're really seeing it, so she cant wangle you into a "friendship" you don't want. And IMHO that's exactly what she's doing. Consciously or not. I suspect in her ideal world you would be an emotional support, with a side order of you admiring her from afar, even the odd snog when she feels lonely, but that would be it.

so i don't think she is the type to string me along because of an ego boost,

I think she may be for that and other reasons, but I think you're stringing yourself along too.

i.e.i hopethink there is something there from her point of view, eg. "i have feelings from you"

Fixed your post. You like her and you want her to like you and I think your clutching at any sign that this may be the case and ignoring the obvious signs that it's not, or at least not enough to have a normal romantic relationship.

now whether this is just a passive thing with no real substance, or whether it is actually something stronger that she is afraid of i dunno,

Or it could be she has no one else on the radar, hates being single and gets lonely.

i will assume the former and leave it to her to show otherwise....Ive done all i can now.

Fair play and dead right. The trick will be sticking to it.

Iwill say i don't thinl she is doing this intentionally, and as ive said before ive weirded her out in the past by bringing up heavy stuff..."whats happening here, I need an answer" - this would be ok if i was saying it now, (and i have) but i started saying it after like 2 weeks,(I know I know) this is why i am amazed she din't run back then....

Ok yes very bad plan, but don't be so amazed she didnt run. That ego boost and emotional attention is powerful mojo. Some thrive on that, even if its unhealthy. If she has no one else giving that to her that goes double. Better to have some attention than none kinda thing.

for perspectives sake, she seems to be a really mixed up kid...has had issues in her past, and some of the things she has said really makes me think she still has issues, especially with her self esteem,

Possibly but you're not her shrink and you can't be. You can be her support alright, but only if it's a mutual thing, whether that be friendship or romance and you want the latter.

another common thing she says when after a couple is along the lines of "why do you even like me anyway, look at me, im a state(she is absolutley baeutiful a real head turner)....

Pardon my cynicism, but again that sounds to me like fishing for compliments and ego massage. Common enough one too. TBH stuff like that beyond the odd time just washes over me when I hear it.

Now before ye start saying why you would want to start anything with someone like this in the first place, fair enough i understand, but ya can't help who you fall for...it would be so much easier if you could!!

No I agree, you can't help who you fall for, but you can help how you act around them. You can help how you react around them when they're yanking your chain. IMH anyway my take would be the same, walk away, move on and if she wants you then make sure she works for you to at least the same degree you've already worked for her.

LegacyUser

i KNOW your right!!! I really do, and i have tried to walk away, but everytime I seem to be drawn back in, this is MY problem/weakness rather then anything to do with her!!

Ive resisted the temptation to make contact for 3 days now, so far so good, to be honest having not had any contact i am already starting to see the situation more clearly and the opinions im reading here is actually strengthening my resolve....

Only problem will be when she makes contact again, How will i react/respond....Id love to say ill just ignore it move on etc. but the thing is the last convo we had i said straight out to think about how she feels...she agreed (could have been only saying that tho), in any event when she texts or calls again, i know im gonna start thinking the same way i was... and that she has decided to give it a chance(thats all i want really, not asking her to run away to vegas or anything), throughout this situation ive been a bit of a tool, reading into text messages etc. looking for signs that most likely weren't there but thinking they were non the less....Ireally cannot fathom why ive been like this, its really NOT my style, im usually a happy go lucky (even too much so) fella!!!!

CDfm

Wibbs wrote: »

And IMHO that's exactly what she's doing. Consciously or not. I suspect in her ideal world you would be an emotional support, with a side order of you admiring her from afar, even the odd snog when she feels lonely, but that would be it.

+1

Yup - and thats a perscription for a gay best friend that only exists on TV and the pages of Cosmo. Thats the bit you need to say. Life is hard isn't it.

ash23

Wow that girls got you on a leash!!!

Jeepers, do you not think you deserve better than the crumbs of attention she is throwing your way?

She's using you. PLain and simple. Regardless of why and what she really is feeling and that she may be messed up...she is USING you!!!!

Can I ask, these "dates" (or non dates), how much notice does she give you? How do they come about? Does she ask you or vice versa?

If you are always doing the asking...fail.
If she is asking but it's always a case of that night or the next....fail (because for "can i meet you later?" substitute "I have nothing to do and I know you'll say yes so we'll do something".
Does she cancel, postpone or rain check a lot?

I just can't believe you're justifying your actions with "but I made it clear I wanted more". Ergo, in your mind, when she calls you and makes plans, you go along because, well, she KNOWS you want more and must have changed her mind. And she leads you along on your leash, a certain distance before tying you to a pole and leaving you there!!! And you are turning around AGIN and saying "hmmph...I want more than friendship" . And she clicks her fingers and you forget all about the other times and go running. And are then surprised and upset when the same thing happens!!! Shock horror!!

In these situations past performance IS an indicator of future performance

What sort of a relationship do you hope to have with her anyway?

You have her up on such a pedestal that you will constantly be at her feet. Not healthy.
A good relationship needs to start on a more level playing field than that.

Because if eventually you do wear her down (and that imo is the only way ye will end up together) she will know she holds all the power and you will be in for a world of misery mate......

Sorry to be so harsh but this stuff annoys me. Dating is hard enough without having someone acting the maggot. :mad:

LegacyUser

Wooooh,
nah i know where your coming from, i have put her on a pedestal and i know this isn't healthy, think it might just be the wanting to look out for her buzz that has manifested this.

But to be fair she has said in the past to "calm down" and "you should try being more hard to get"....but i dont play games,never have, not good at them so...

As i said tho i think ive finally seen the light, the drunken " i think i love ya" call kindof brought things to a head somewhat in that i told her not to say that crap anymore unless you mean it....

Ive done the lap dog bit and been on the "leash" as you put it, so now i think its time i reverted to form and do the "dog" part that involves me being a bit of a ****, How ironic would it be if she comes crawling,

but after thinking today im starting to realise that maybe she is the type that likes to be treated a bit badly....if that is the case, there is no future there anyway, im no saint by any means and there are alot of girls who'll testify to this, but if i am with someone in the proper sense they are treated well and how they should be

CDfm

OP 1 wrote: »

Ive done the lap dog bit and been on the "leash" as you put it, so now i think its time i reverted to form and do the "dog" part that involves me being a bit of a ****, How ironic would it be if she comes crawling,

but after thinking today im starting to realise that maybe she is the type that likes to be treated a bit badly....

You have got it most of the way. I would draw the line at being the lapdog but also at treating her badly. Now having fun is different and she might want you to be more assertive, blokeish and may see you and treat you differently if you behave like that.

Wibbs

Yes but for god's sake dont snap back the other way and become a tad bitter either.

Start BS\
My 2 cents? What follows is my take and obviously deals in generalisations, so take it with a pinch of salt if you will.

This kinda thing or a close variation of it it makes up one helluva lot of the posts on RI from men. I'd say it's at least a third of such threads. So a lot of this is directly applicable to the OP as well as some of it that doesn't appear to be at first glance. So I've been typing this guff up in bits and pieces in the last few days..

IMHO There are a lot of (mostly young, but seems now to be more older guys too) men out there who simply have no clue about or have never learned how to interact with women as potential romantic partners and then have little notion how to sustain that in a relationship, or worse don't know when to walk away.

I don't mean you have to do the "Pickup artist" stuff either, though it's popularity shows how common this issue is. IMHO they do make some very valid points and then tack on a load of waffle to make it look like a saleable theory(and I can do waffle to an Olympic standard so I know of what I speak. Herein is an example...:o:)).

These kind of guys have their own theory and practice on how they should approach women. The media, their mates, taking advice from other women and their own experience informs this theory.

Take the media. IMHO 90% of the male female interactions you see in rom coms and the like is utter tosh and has little or no bearing on the reality. It's aimed at its audience very well. One of the common themes; introverted klutz/geek gets the sexy blonde kinda movies. He usually gets her through dogged perseverance and being klutzy and passive. She finally sees through this to the "man inside" and ditches the handsome go getter type(who is a bit of a knob in an exaggerated way) to march off into the sunset with Mr. Klutz. Never gonna happen in the real world. Or if it does it's rare, so not to be relied on. In the real world go getter boy has far more of a chance. Would you believe a romcom where ugly Betty pulled Brad Pitt? Exactly, nope. It can happen, but it's not as common. As for relationships in movies and TV? 9 times outa 10 it stops at "and they lived happily ever after". Not much help there.

Then there's advice from mates. Unless one of the guys in your circle is good with socially interacting with women and knows how he does it, you're not going to get much help there. Ever try explaining something that comes naturally to you to someone for which it doesn't? Hard. Though watching what he does is a good bet. If you have a guy in your circle that used to be crap and now is good all the better. This route is still a good bet mind. Observe and see how they do it. Ignore the guy at times too and watch for the signs women give. They give them as well. I would even go so far as to say women give clearer signs of interest than a lot of men do. Women reading this may well be saying "oh god yes! Men can be a bloody nightmare".

Then there's advice from their women mates. I've noticed as a very general trend that these guys have lots of women mates. Women make great mates. I am damned lucky to have really bloody good women mates in my life. They've dug me outa the shíte more than once and they can give you a different angle on things that maybe men dont see(and vice versa). Now these guys may have some good women mates, but many times they are women they fancy and have never told or have fancied in the past.

Anyhoo... Taking advice from women on how to attract and sustain a relationship with a woman? The latter yes. Damn right. The former not so much. Again it comes back to what I said before about things coming naturally to you are hard to explain to someone else. Most people can't tell you why they become attracted to someone over someone else. Men may say oh she has a great arse or whatever, but they're not exactly rare so not much to go on there.

So generally unless you're real lucky, a woman mate when faced with that question will tend to answer along the lines of;

"just be yourself" Great intention but useless as being yourself isn't working for you. This doesn't mean you have to be someone else, but it does mean you have to look at the parts of yourself that are causing the issue and seek to tone that down. Also look at the parts of you that are good and tone them up.

"be nice to them" Treat them well" Goes without saying, but what does it mean really? How many women do you know who you think are treated like crap by their BF's yet keep coming back for more? A few I'll bet. There are the cases where the guy is just being a prick but that's another thing entirely. I'm talking about the average situation. Where the woman you fancy who you hear is being treated badly. How do you know she is? Most of the time because she may from time to time bitch and moan about him. IMHO unless in an extreme ignore that. IMHO women like to get their stresses out by talking about it with their mates. A bloody good release valve that more men should take up actually. So when she's saying "oh hes such a prick". It doesn't always mean he is or is all the time, but she's hitting the release valve by talking about it. You hear "he's a prick" and think "why is she with him and not me?" Why? Because as I say its her release valve but first and foremost the guy is attractive to her. He gets her juices flowing. Thats why she's with him and not you or anyone else. That attraction goes and she'll leave him sooner or later.

"the right one will come along for you" "you're such a nice guy, I don't know why you're single/shes giving you static".Again good intentioned, but ask yourself this, if you're so nice and lovely why isn't she into you herself? Why are you having probs with a woman you are into? Again it's down to attraction.

This attraction is what it boils down to. The diff between a guy a woman likes as a friend and a guy she wants as a boyfriend is crudely put sex. Little else. She may dress it up as the "spark" etc but it's sexual attraction. She wants to jump one and not the other. Men do this too. Men may have a woman they know that they think are nice and sound, but they don't wanna go out with them and its because they don't fancy them and dont want to jump their bones. In both men and women this is decided very early on in most cases. A yes or no thing goes off in their heads. Now that can change with time and does but again it's rare enough.
End BS/

OP in your case, beyond her attention seeking stuff, the main reason she's not sealing the deal is that she's not sexually attracted to you enough to want to take it that far. Now this is not a reflection on your attractiveness in general, but more what she wants.

At the start it sounds like she was willing to give it a try. You coming over all hot and heavy may have killled that. It defo didn't help. Kiss of death in fact.

Now the thing is she told you that exactly.

she has said in the past to "calm down" and "you should try being more hard to get"

You see this as playing games. It's not. Again she is telling you exactly how to get with her, what attracts her as a woman and what is putting her off. As I said women give clear and vocal signals. Theyre not unknowable or vague or any of that crap you hear. Men just chose not to listen to them, hear them and act on it. This will drive most women mad.

So she felt something for you. You over egged it. She told you what was not helping. You continued on. Then you stopped. Now she's being inconsistent and doesn't know how she feels. So she's sending you mixed signals. That started way back when you did IMHO. Women value consistency in men more than men do in women again IMHO. If you come across as needy or emotionally inconsistent its usually game over, even if she loves the look of you and likes you as a person. Kiss. Of. Death.

So what do her mixed signals mean now? Beyond her attention seeking? None of us know, but it could be this; she did find you sexually attractive at the start. That went the way of the flesh when you got too full on and when you wouldnt listen to her. She may still find you sexually attractive and this comes out with the addition of the ales. She rings you and you go back to how you were. In the sober light of day you have assumed she meant more than she did, over egg it again and she again thinks twice.

Jesus that was a long rambling one even for me:o Apologies. hell offer it up for your sins.:D

Short answer. Back off. Let her do the running. Don't be full on even if she's giving you loads of signals. Look to her actions sober and drunk. Move forward in your life. Go on dates with other women. Enjoy your life. If she wants you she will make damn sure you know about it. Most importantly, listen to her and listen to the next woman in your life.

metrovelvet

I have to agree with Wibbs about ambivalence. Honestly, it is just something that gets worse and worse.

Imagine her pregnant and ambivalent. Im agine the phone calls then. There is no greater hell on earth then dealing with an ambivalent fruitcake when something important arises. HELL. Now run run run far far far away. Dont look back.

LegacyUser

Thanks Wibbs, Some really interesting points there, Ive thought alot about it over last few days, Thing is it really is rather simple when looked at objectivley, Ive prob blown this one from the start, coming on too strong etc.. whattever can't change that now, just try and learn from it i guess

What is crazy tho is even back then i knew what i was doing/saying was silly and would only lead to one outcome....yet i still did it, dunno why, as ive said before its not my style, im (and trying not to sound like a prat here) usually fairly good at this stuff, i get my fair share lets ssay. really looking back i was pathetic, fromlike the 2nd "date" i was constantly looking for assurance that she was into it, i really cannot fathom why she stuck around even as a mate....i must ave came across as a stark raving loony

I still can't figure why it was so different here, think she just got under my skin,

Saying all this, she didn't help matters either, still isn't, but i think ive gotten over the crap now, if she comes back cool...Great, id love it, i do still harbour feelings for her, if she doesn't well at least i know where i messed up...and we shall NOT be mates!!!

In regard to your main point re. attraction, i do "think" she was attracted to me, but i think i switched her off by what iwas doing/saying...i mean when i gave up accepted the friends thing it took all of 2 weeks for her to start saying she has feelings for me etc.

Im just gonna wait and see...its all i can do, and all i want to do now at any rate, ive already started ground work on other "options" last couple days so....watch this space i guess!!

CDfm

OP - in the words of the Bard " drink increases the desire, but lessens the performance" so take it easy on the sauce if you are trying to make a good impression.