drunken_munky52 wrote: » Haha Yeah, but thats actually the one thing I do not believe is going to happen... You are on about Planet X are you not? OK, build the big zapper yokima bus thing... but stop building shhite like cruise missles, cluster munitions, etc. An utter waste... the brains that went into making them, if only they had been used to develop solutions for real problems in the world, like water shortages, famine, etc We cant use a need for "defence" as a justification to keep strenghtening the military... we are not stone age men anymore, we can control ourselves now... this whole notion that war is human nature is a myth So a military now, serves corporations, as was the case with Iraq... the most obvious use of the military for corporate profit
bowsie casey wrote: » Do we really need another thread to hear about the OPs anti-Lisbon stance ? Surely one is enough... As a poster on that other thread suggested, I think this is better discussed on the Politics forum.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » It is not. The the EU Political forum is run by biased moderators that favour the Lisbon treaty and the thread would not last pi**ing time before either he gets infracted or the thread gets locked. I rarely bother with the EU Political forum. It is up to the mods to merge this thread if they feel its necessary.
meglome wrote: » I've been asking from the start to have this moved, although I'm not going to sit here and let the liars twins make it up as they go along.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » Thats what the media like us to believe.I have been canvassed around Dublin Limerick and Clare over the last few weeks particularly concentrating on factory, farmers and council workers. All I can say is that the large majority don't want the treaty. Most are pissed off with the Government, they are fed up with tax payers money used to shove Lisbon propaganda down their troths. Most believe if they reject Lisbon the Government will fall which makes a lot sense. I passed through many housing estates in Limerick, Clare and even Dublin where all the YES posters were removed. In Moyross and Thormond areas just a few Coir and Sinn Fein posters remained.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » If you were to do the same as me and call around to the same people you would be more than likely politely told to fu*ck off. To the average working man the Yes crowd would be more at home with wealthy business men, fat cats. property developers, politicians and white collar workers. I bet you haven't even read it, It is full of EU Corruption, on how it has trampled all over democracy. The paper has had a huge success feedback. on line hits have been huge, Not alone that is that it has got people to think and look further into EU lies and deception.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » At least this material is not funded by Taxpayers money and backed by the EU like the rag pushed through our letter boxes. I thought I was the only one that saw these subliminal messages in the IRC and Dept of Foreign Affairs guide, but was surprised at the amount of people that were also aware of it. People are sick of it at this stage and want to know the truth.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » I wouldn't wipe my arse with the self ammending Lisbon Treaty, it's so full of holes my finger would push straight through it.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » On a seperate but similar note the Globalist Sarkozy is putting the gun to the head on the Chez president Klaus to sign Lisbon Treaty. ]
Malty_T wrote: » You obviously weren't here for the separate thread that was created in the name of Voting No.:)
Malty_T wrote: » Anyways, Meglome, why do you we should keep the EU expanding military budgets. I covered green aliens defense, You got any ideas?
Malty_T wrote: » Nah Planet X is just merely going to collide and wipe us out just like it did away with the dinosaurs. The green guys are real and they ARE coming! What about the military's role in places like Darfur?Also, we've got alot of inventions to thank the military for the biro being one:)
meglome wrote: » Every single EU country has an army and the majority are also members of NATO. One of the major things the European defence agency is for is saving money and cutting back on duplication. I'm not a fan of spending on the military but it has always happened and will continue to do so Lisbon or not.
drunken_munky52 wrote: » NATO should be consigned to history just like the USSR was... The main problem with the military is that it got too powerful during the cold war, and now its like a greedy dog who will bite your hand off if you try to take his food away. So it needs to be tackled from the top to bottom, starting with not giving it any more power than it already has, i.e. rejecting Lisbon (those hawks will hate us Irish, better to be admired by the doves tough) Second step, we need to stop as many people as possible from joining the military in the first place. This fighting for freedom and honour BS has so many young men hyponotised, when at the end of the day, they work for a money making business, just like you and me
marco_polo wrote: » Not even original enough to come up with new lies. They were right on the money about Nice too weren't they?http://www.sinnfein.org/releases/01/nicemanifesto.html
REPSOC1916 wrote: » My dad is friends with a few Defence Forces Officers. One of them told him that all the necessary bureaucratic and logistical changes had been made to the IDF's structure in order to assimilate into the European Army. Frankly we're moving closer into a United Stated of Europe.
marco_polo wrote: » The problem with that statement is one there is no European Army, and they will not be after Lisbon either. Secondly the friend of a anonymous internets posters dad is not a very reliable source. Any actual sources? (For either the proposed changes or a evidence of the existence european army)
theasylumkey wrote: » Here is a link to a very informative paper that actually references the articles in the treaty of major concern to the No side which transparently then backs up all the issues we are being told is nonsense from the Yes side such Militarisation, Taxation & the loss of direct power in each countrys internal affairs by its own government.....if you are unsure of what to vote read this paper & make an informed decision on you & your childrens future because one thing is certain if this is passed into being there will be no way back to where we are now so you should be sure before Oct. 2nd...http://www.sovereignindependent.com/downloads.php If any of you have Bebo or Facebook pages & already rightly beleive that this is the worst possible thing that can happen to our country spread the content of this post, this paper & mediafire link which is the same as the PDF attached.......download the PDF & E-Mail it also to friend's & encourage them to do the same......spread the information as far as possible on the net to friends & users & to personal E-Mails for a NO!http://www.mediafire.com/?vgmmjxq3xy2
marco_polo wrote: » It is a pity that it relies entirely on Anthony Coughlans long debunked 13 reasons to vote no. Why on earth would you trust the opinions of a man who doesn't even know the difference between a direct and an indirect taxation?
theasylumkey wrote: » I have not solely relied on this paper to come to a conclusion that all is not what it appears with the european union.....however there are various direct references to the treaty within this paper & quotations which have been independantly verified that cannot be ignored, if you honestly beleive that the European Union is not insidious in nature & is really striving to make the common good of all its citizens top of its agenda you are naive to say the least. Yes europe is good for business but thats exactly it, its good for buisnesses not the people who work in the businesses. The recent "rescue" of our banks is a glimpse of how buisness before people is the order of the day. We cannot allow our banks to fail but we can reduce child benefit & reduce health care budgets etc. etc. etc. Europe ever closer means Buisness before people & so it ever has been driven since the foudation of capatalism.....but it is not even a true reflection of capatalism, the europe they want is a meger of Capatalism & Socialism for the wealthy elite. We pay to make the system work for the wealthy. Vote whatever way you want but my head aint in the clouds yours is.
theasylumkey wrote: » Treaty of Lisbon Title 1 , Article 2A section 4, states:“The union shall have competence to define and implement a common foreign and security policy, including the progressive framing of a common defence policy”. In my book a common european defence policy is as good as a common european military force.
Malty_T wrote: » Joe Higgins, who exactly is he?? That when the green aliens do come (and they WILL come) our shelter will be ready, the folk at CERN will have their Dan Brown weapons perfected (named in honour ,of course, after the author who first popularly described them) and we will be able to defend ourselves - Vote Yes, it's better for all of us this way, and I won't be having to make stuff up about aliens to string you along,.
theasylumkey wrote: » "Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly.""All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way.""What was already difficult to understand will become utterly incomprehensible, but the substance has been retained." Words ofValéry Giscard d'Estaing - Former French President Headed committee that wrote the Lisbon Treaty
drunken_munky52 wrote: » :rolleyes: You are the alien Malty... you have blasted off from Planet X and secretly arrived on Earth before the mothership arrives... "to prepare us" for this... we are been set up by you beings, so that we will bow before their might in awe... if we bend over and take it for Lisbon by voting yes, our will to resist is finished... and the aliens can come down a give us the good shafting they intend to... without fear of losing their teeth in the process...
Lisbon for life... NOT... those aliens will also be getting the two fingers I intend to point at Europe on referendum day
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » I was chatting to an Army medic based in the Curragh, she said most of the defense forces don't want Lisbon because they oppose large scale EU battlegroups.
Malty_T wrote: » A fabricated tale.
Malty_T wrote: » The aliens, I'm sure, would not appreciate liars or deceivers
Malty_T wrote: » It's time to give something back and keep this wonderful relationship going. The EU is the reason our alien visitors are here : They have come to learn about the BEST system the humans have at the moment so that they may use it and try to improve on it in their own green worlds of wonder.
Malty_T wrote: » That was the day Europe became united under peace; a wise choice Drunken, a wise choice.
Malty_T wrote: » My little greens friends have a sense of growing pride about you..:)[/I]
drunken_munky52 wrote: » To quote Joe Higgins: "If the Lisbon Treaty is passed, it will give a further impetus to the right wing, neo liberal agenda which the European Union has been driving hard through its structures. The EU Commission likes to give the impression that it is a neutral body which approaches economic policy in an impartial way. It is anything but. The Commission has vigorously pushed measures to secure the privatisation of public enterprises and services which is grist to the profits of big private corporations. Little wonder then that the economic policy of the EU has been hostile to public ownership of infrastructure and services and has pushed for opening up these areas of society to profit seeking business interests. Postal services and electricity supply are just two examples. The Lisbon Treaty lays the basis for a further extension of privatisation. It calls for a system in the ‘internal market’ to ensure ‘that competition is not distorted’ and calls for ‘uniformity in measures of liberalisation.’ This is code for hiving off to the corporate sector important parts of public services, the most profitable parts of course. Over the last ten years, Fianna Fail/Progressive Democrat governments have implemented very right wing economic policies. Taxes for big business and speculators were slashed while vital companies like Telecom Eireann and of Aer Lingus were privatised. Lisbon provides the mechanism for a further twist to the privatisation agenda. The EU Commission is nominated to negotiate international trade agreements on a global basis with organisations like the World Trade Organisation. With its firm neo liberal stance, the Commission can be expected to recommend that public services including health and education are obliged to allow profit seeking private corporations in."
fergusman wrote: » I'd advise you to read this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055684513 He didnt head the committee that wrote the Lisbon Treaty either. Surely people can come up with better than this crap.
But it (the lisbon treaty) presents European citizens with the idea that the European project is a mechanism organised behind their backs by lawyers and diplomats
theasylumkey wrote: » One last thing i will note is your sig. Meglome.....41 billion for free from those EU Bastards.....its simple buisness figures really they give us 41 billion for this & that & we agree to allow the whole of the rest of europe (even land locked nations) to fish off our coasts which Nets the EU approx 200 billion back into the euorpean economy......not a bad deal turning 41 into 200 billion......now i know as a small nation we could never have fished that amount of stock so it makes sense to share the wealth but that said dont ever throw up as part of the argument that we owe so much to europe because of the funding they grant for this & that as we have contributed more than our fair share back into the Union.
Scofflaw wrote: » Here are the real figures, in millions of year 2000 dollars: Year|Ireland|France|UK|Spain|Russia|Netherlands|Norway|Faeroe(Denmark)|Germany|Belgium|Latvia|Others|Total 1950|12.03|45.4|55.68|0|0|0|0|0|0|1.66|0|0|114.76 1951|9.79|50.24|64.93|0|0|0|0|0|0|1.05|0|0.01|126.02 1952|14.37|62.18|59.14|0|0|0.01|0|0|0|1.55|0|0.06|137.31 1953|15.53|47.35|56.18|6.12|29.35|0|0|0|0|0.95|3.14|3.19|161.8 1954|14.84|60.11|23.38|0|48.17|0|0|0|0|0.83|4.11|4.72|156.17 1955|19.48|71.44|43.88|0|55.52|0.81|0|0.01|0|3.32|4.8|5.73|204.98 1956|18.43|61.2|42.01|0|54.89|0.02|0|0|0|4.49|5.11|5.87|192.01 1957|16.12|62.34|32.36|0|36.71|0|0|0.06|8.47|6.13|4.86|6.02|173.07 1958|21.31|86.66|36.73|0|31.52|0.11|0|0|2.93|6.45|4.64|5.96|196.32 1959|23.26|84.01|31.94|0|34.22|1.24|0|0|1.99|4.21|5|6.65|192.53 1960|21.17|121.28|34.31|0|34.74|0.76|0|0|0.32|1.37|4.74|6.15|224.85 1961|20.99|78.1|26.48|0|35.34|1.01|0|0|0.23|3.02|3.61|4.62|173.4 1962|21.45|103.47|26.01|0|41.2|0.24|0|0|1.7|2.92|4.01|5.03|206.04 1963|22.19|104.44|26.84|0|36.89|1.52|0|0|0.25|1.66|4.84|5.94|204.57 1964|22.24|97.74|33.03|0|33.1|1.09|0|0|0.28|3.45|5.15|6.75|202.82 1965|23.67|110.98|31.49|32.48|25.77|1.43|0|0.37|0.36|4.16|5.02|6.41|242.14 1966|29.2|163.61|26.53|0|32.03|5.16|0|0|0.98|2.89|4.88|6.21|271.49 1967|30.22|87.1|29.92|0|36.43|6.76|0|0.97|0.96|2|4.51|5.6|204.48 1968|31.86|100.48|29.23|0|54.42|5.18|0|0|1.02|1.96|4.75|5.74|234.65 1969|36.71|116|30.68|0|67.96|4.93|0|0|1.98|2.05|4.78|5.75|270.85 1970|43.58|108.04|30.92|0|80.98|3.25|2.3|0|1.13|3.1|7.59|8.22|289.11 1971|44.78|104.54|31.48|0|104.36|3.8|9.57|0.92|0.04|2.76|8.24|10.67|321.16 1972|58.09|89.5|36.9|29.32|83.72|5.49|2.28|0|0.26|1.63|8.41|10.04|325.64 1973|34.86|117.97|47.9|136.42|22.28|5.43|5.45|0.94|1.08|3.19|2.63|4.81|382.97 1974|31.87|104.93|40.6|140.64|63.3|3.01|4.29|0.57|1.66|2.99|5.23|8.22|407.3 1975|31.29|93.85|33.56|174.21|131.27|6.8|0.39|0.23|2.35|2.29|8.25|14.44|498.92 1976|39.29|68.67|38.75|150.06|203.93|6.37|1.26|1.32|2.21|3.64|14.53|22.41|552.45 1977|36.39|53.7|42.41|40.41|18.41|6.82|0.63|1.59|2.67|2.73|1.71|4.77|212.24 1978|40.09|53.01|44.4|25.76|0|6.11|1.65|5.38|9.19|2.12|0|2.87|190.57 1979|43.43|54.28|41.76|31.34|0|6.34|3.23|4.09|4.54|2.08|0|3.76|194.87 1980|55.48|60.58|30.5|19.76|0|9.98|3.53|8.07|4.11|2.72|0|4.22|198.94 1981|67.49|111.72|42.69|25.53|0|18.4|5.34|0.42|4.11|3.96|0|2.79|282.45 1982|79.71|97.11|48.93|24.85|0|18.2|7.65|5.71|1.63|3.98|0|3.02|290.79 1983|77.27|107.91|35.22|25.41|0|21.3|8|5.92|3.34|3.86|0|3.46|291.71 1984|75.95|94.01|47.3|32.51|0|31.69|7.67|8.51|1.69|3.63|0|3|305.95 1985|85.94|78.04|50.34|35.05|0|9.74|8.25|8.17|1.76|3.65|0|2.59|283.52 1986|85.47|74.73|62.75|31.14|0|17.94|11.11|18.48|1.57|3.88|0|2.9|309.98 1987|99.72|66.5|78.44|38.64|0|8.57|9.41|29.67|2.57|2.32|0|2.7|338.55 1988|100.26|66.74|73.21|46.1|0|15.02|10.53|30.99|5.38|2.04|0|2.77|353.05 1989|104.36|95.29|56.65|54.64|0|11.88|15.59|36.08|5.27|3.35|0|2.25|385.37 1990|102.87|79.47|60.66|51.93|0|18.15|14.82|20.96|4.27|2.44|0|1.16|356.73 1991|105.09|58.54|63.13|60.55|0|19|5.37|3.96|4.42|1.24|0|1.16|322.46 1992|153.25|64.32|76.19|68.47|0|19.39|5.06|2.52|8.64|1.71|0|2.21|401.76 1993|155.2|67.45|74.07|71.86|0|27.71|6.55|4.33|11.55|2.09|0|1.46|422.27 1994|138.49|68.75|80.06|66.55|0|21.25|8.92|7.5|12.98|2.9|0|2.47|409.89 1995|157.79|83.43|74.96|77.67|0|22.76|10.52|4.22|8.26|3.75|0|5.77|449.13 1996|141.47|69.86|73.37|71.16|0.59|23.19|13.88|0.33|6.91|3.66|0|3.8|408.22 1997|168.29|80.09|82.45|109.1|0.89|30.73|11.27|1.17|4.6|3.88|0|2|494.45 1998|216.86|84.27|79.59|72.88|0.22|32.35|25.21|1.7|15.75|2.85|0|2.09|533.76 1999|204.95|74.88|78.81|66.53|1.32|20.98|10.99|5.48|8.64|2.69|0|2.2|477.45 2000|153.12|94.37|60.15|47.57|0|30.09|9.24|0|12.94|2.2|0|1.64|411.32 2001|160.66|81.57|61.79|42.73|0|44.4|8.21|0|12.98|2.59|0|2.25|417.19 2002|154.32|78.82|58.05|63.92|0|34.7|8.39|0|10.4|2.71|0|1.39|412.71 2003|191.39|75.44|54.54|79.97|0|43.43|17.38|0|9.55|2.86|0|1.16|475.73 2004|198.02|66.42|50|59.9|0|60.73|12|0|9.26|2.71|0|1.37|460.42 Total|3490.64|0|1843.23|2043.26|442.21|652.46|271.79|218.31|196.28|92.71|32.35|123.11|11933.12Source (Click show tabular data) If we throw all of the "Other" category in as EU members, then the total amount of fish the other EU states have taken from our waters is $5.2bn since 1973, while we have had $3.5bn. Over the same period we've received probably close to another half a billion in funding for our fisheries, including the building of 5 out of our 8 existing fisheries protection vessels. You're free to argue that even that is wrong, if you like, but what you're not free to do is pluck utterly ridiculous figures out of the air. regards, Scofflaw
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » Has anyone browse any of the social sites, U Tube, Facebook, Bebo etc? I believe the YES crowd are shi**ing in their trousers at the huge number of NO videos, hits and responses, so much so that the bookies have now changed their odds. You must remember that it was the younger crowd that swung the figures the last time, the same crowd that frequent these social networking sites. :pac: This is one part where the YES sided propaganda machine fails to penetrate and the Government has no control over yet.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » It may not last though because if the EU Parliament had its way it would introduce Internet Censorship and Blog banning. :eek:
