theasylumkey wrote: » Treaty of Lisbon Title 1 , Article 2A section 4, states:“The union shall have competence to define and implement a common foreign and security policy, including the progressive framing of a common defence policy”. In my book a common european defence policy is as good as a common european military force.
theasylumkey wrote: » I have not solely relied on this paper to come to a conclusion that all is not what it appears with the european union.....however there are various direct references to the treaty within this paper & quotations which have been independantly verified that cannot be ignored, if you honestly beleive that the European Union is not insidious in nature & is really striving to make the common good of all its citizens top of its agenda you are naive to say the least. Yes europe is good for business but thats exactly it, its good for buisnesses not the people who work in the businesses. The recent "rescue" of our banks is a glimpse of how buisness before people is the order of the day. We cannot allow our banks to fail but we can reduce child benefit & reduce health care budgets etc. etc. etc. Europe ever closer means Buisness before people & so it ever has been driven since the foudation of capatalism.....but it is not even a true reflection of capatalism, the europe they want is a meger of Capatalism & Socialism for the wealthy elite. We pay to make the system work for the wealthy. Vote whatever way you want but my head aint in the clouds yours is.
marco_polo wrote: » It is a pity that it relies entirely on Anthony Coughlans long debunked 13 reasons to vote no. Why on earth would you trust the opinions of a man who doesn't even know the difference between a direct and an indirect taxation?
theasylumkey wrote: » Here is a link to a very informative paper that actually references the articles in the treaty of major concern to the No side which transparently then backs up all the issues we are being told is nonsense from the Yes side such Militarisation, Taxation & the loss of direct power in each countrys internal affairs by its own government.....if you are unsure of what to vote read this paper & make an informed decision on you & your childrens future because one thing is certain if this is passed into being there will be no way back to where we are now so you should be sure before Oct. 2nd...http://www.sovereignindependent.com/downloads.php If any of you have Bebo or Facebook pages & already rightly beleive that this is the worst possible thing that can happen to our country spread the content of this post, this paper & mediafire link which is the same as the PDF attached.......download the PDF & E-Mail it also to friend's & encourage them to do the same......spread the information as far as possible on the net to friends & users & to personal E-Mails for a NO!http://www.mediafire.com/?vgmmjxq3xy2
marco_polo wrote: » The problem with that statement is one there is no European Army, and they will not be after Lisbon either. Secondly the friend of a anonymous internets posters dad is not a very reliable source. Any actual sources? (For either the proposed changes or a evidence of the existence european army)
REPSOC1916 wrote: » My dad is friends with a few Defence Forces Officers. One of them told him that all the necessary bureaucratic and logistical changes had been made to the IDF's structure in order to assimilate into the European Army. Frankly we're moving closer into a United Stated of Europe.
marco_polo wrote: » Not even original enough to come up with new lies. They were right on the money about Nice too weren't they?http://www.sinnfein.org/releases/01/nicemanifesto.html
drunken_munky52 wrote: » NATO should be consigned to history just like the USSR was... The main problem with the military is that it got too powerful during the cold war, and now its like a greedy dog who will bite your hand off if you try to take his food away. So it needs to be tackled from the top to bottom, starting with not giving it any more power than it already has, i.e. rejecting Lisbon (those hawks will hate us Irish, better to be admired by the doves tough) Second step, we need to stop as many people as possible from joining the military in the first place. This fighting for freedom and honour BS has so many young men hyponotised, when at the end of the day, they work for a money making business, just like you and me
meglome wrote: » Every single EU country has an army and the majority are also members of NATO. One of the major things the European defence agency is for is saving money and cutting back on duplication. I'm not a fan of spending on the military but it has always happened and will continue to do so Lisbon or not.
Malty_T wrote: » Nah Planet X is just merely going to collide and wipe us out just like it did away with the dinosaurs. The green guys are real and they ARE coming! What about the military's role in places like Darfur?Also, we've got alot of inventions to thank the military for the biro being one:)
Malty_T wrote: » You obviously weren't here for the separate thread that was created in the name of Voting No.:)
Malty_T wrote: » Anyways, Meglome, why do you we should keep the EU expanding military budgets. I covered green aliens defense, You got any ideas?
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » Thats what the media like us to believe.I have been canvassed around Dublin Limerick and Clare over the last few weeks particularly concentrating on factory, farmers and council workers. All I can say is that the large majority don't want the treaty. Most are pissed off with the Government, they are fed up with tax payers money used to shove Lisbon propaganda down their troths. Most believe if they reject Lisbon the Government will fall which makes a lot sense. I passed through many housing estates in Limerick, Clare and even Dublin where all the YES posters were removed. In Moyross and Thormond areas just a few Coir and Sinn Fein posters remained.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » If you were to do the same as me and call around to the same people you would be more than likely politely told to fu*ck off. To the average working man the Yes crowd would be more at home with wealthy business men, fat cats. property developers, politicians and white collar workers. I bet you haven't even read it, It is full of EU Corruption, on how it has trampled all over democracy. The paper has had a huge success feedback. on line hits have been huge, Not alone that is that it has got people to think and look further into EU lies and deception.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » At least this material is not funded by Taxpayers money and backed by the EU like the rag pushed through our letter boxes. I thought I was the only one that saw these subliminal messages in the IRC and Dept of Foreign Affairs guide, but was surprised at the amount of people that were also aware of it. People are sick of it at this stage and want to know the truth.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » I wouldn't wipe my arse with the self ammending Lisbon Treaty, it's so full of holes my finger would push straight through it.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » On a seperate but similar note the Globalist Sarkozy is putting the gun to the head on the Chez president Klaus to sign Lisbon Treaty. ]
meglome wrote: » I've been asking from the start to have this moved, although I'm not going to sit here and let the liars twins make it up as they go along.
bowsie casey wrote: » Do we really need another thread to hear about the OPs anti-Lisbon stance ? Surely one is enough... As a poster on that other thread suggested, I think this is better discussed on the Politics forum.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » It is not. The the EU Political forum is run by biased moderators that favour the Lisbon treaty and the thread would not last pi**ing time before either he gets infracted or the thread gets locked. I rarely bother with the EU Political forum. It is up to the mods to merge this thread if they feel its necessary.
drunken_munky52 wrote: » Haha Yeah, but thats actually the one thing I do not believe is going to happen... You are on about Planet X are you not? OK, build the big zapper yokima bus thing... but stop building shhite like cruise missles, cluster munitions, etc. An utter waste... the brains that went into making them, if only they had been used to develop solutions for real problems in the world, like water shortages, famine, etc We cant use a need for "defence" as a justification to keep strenghtening the military... we are not stone age men anymore, we can control ourselves now... this whole notion that war is human nature is a myth So a military now, serves corporations, as was the case with Iraq... the most obvious use of the military for corporate profit
Malty_T wrote: » Ok, but what about if green aliens were to land on earth, hostile ones, and you know, try to take over the world pinky and brain style. We need military for that, the more advanced our weapons, the better, Germans discover uranium isotopes..I'd love to see our alien 'friends' hit by something bigger and more powerful than a nuke. Don't you see, the EU want to research antimatter weapons; that's the whole purpose of CERN (which Ireland is not part of) to anticipate defense weapons for the arrival of the little critters in 2012. We're going to annihilate them, Dan Brown style.:)
drunken_munky52 wrote: » I am totally opposed to any such strenghtening of military structures... it serves the interests of mainly defense contractors to sell their child maiming products... my two finger salute to them... tear up that section of the treaty and you have my ears... until then, its a no go for me.
Malty_T wrote: » Hi Drunken:) Although I understand your fears, I think they're irrational to say the least. Would you mind showing us WHERE(quotations please) in the treaty it's possible that your fears may come to light?
drunken_munky52 wrote: » And what paper do you get your information from??? Oh yeah... that Lisbon treaty... less useful than the phone books that Eircom still stuff in our letter boxes every 2 years... so written in riddles in places youd swear it was a comic book.
drunken_munky52 wrote: » You no more read that fcuking waste of trees than Brian Cowen did... in fact if the politicians didnt bother their arses reading it (which they admitted)... what the hell is going to make me convinced you bothered to do so?... and if you did believe the shiite in it, you still wont be able to convince me that its good for you... not to mention me.
drunken_munky52 wrote: » Balanced view... how about the image of a scales then. Since you are so convinced we are wrong, how about you come up with some statements to disprove us, instead of resorting to the "I'm telling teacher on you" attitude
BOBBY wrote: » Clare voted YES if i remember correctly last time, ill be voting yes again !! and we'll keep voting till we get it right ! :pac:
drunken_munky52 wrote: » Military spending is the most wasteful and one of the most destructive uses of resources in the world today. These resources could be put to much more constructive use, if we have the will to fully reject the military institutions. The Lisbon treaty strenghtens the obligations on the nations of Europe to contribute more to military related expenditure... Ireland's neutrality is also questionable It must be rejected also on these grounds alone. A call of arms (the non-lethal tpye) to the masses, rally and vote no to Lisbon.
bowsie casey wrote: » As a poster on that other thread suggested, I think this is better discussed on the Politics forum.
meglome wrote: » Just a thought, but maybe they don't agree with you because you're simply wrong. In fact most of our politicians, our unions, our labour organizations, our media, our business organizations, our academics and our economists all disagree with you. .
meglome wrote: » I have to say in your position I might wonder if I wasn't getting it wrong. Why would we believe some internet nutjobs over all these people? And I suppose you could go mad and actually look in the treaty and see for yourself that stuff isn't in there. .
meglome wrote: » The only biased EU funded propaganda that has gone out in this country is from the UK Independence Party asking the Irish for a No vote. Since these guys are only a half a step removed from the BNP I'd be doing the exact opposite of what they asked for. .
meglome wrote: » I wouldn't wipe my arse with these papers for fear I'd put more **** on than I'd take off. Sorry to be so crude about it but since there's not even a single factual thing contained within them I don't know how else I should put it.
drunken_munky52 wrote: » And what paper do you get your information from??? Oh yeah... that Lisbon treaty... less useful than the phone books that Eircom still stuff in our letter boxes every 2 years... so written in riddles in places youd swear it was a comic book. You no more read that fcuking waste of trees than Brian Cowen did... in fact if the politicians didnt bother their arses reading it (which they admitted)... what the hell is going to make me convinced you bothered to do so?... and if you did believe the shiite in it, you still wont be able to convince me that its good for you... not to mention me. Balanced view... how about the image of a scales then. Since you are so convinced we are wrong, how about you come up with some statements to disprove us, instead of resorting to the "I'm telling teacher on you" attitude
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » Nor is any Broad sheet that is printed in this country at this present time. Even the Irish Times, a paper that I once highly respected has turned itself into an biased tabloid on the Lisbon Issue. People need to have an alternative news sours away from state controlled media.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » This was also the case with France and Holland on the same fu*king treaty, At least Ireland has a second chance but has a disadvantage with biased mainstream media EU backed propaganda shoved in every letterbox in the country. People are well aware of this and this in itself has back fired.
Run_to_da_hills wrote: » I have warned distributors about leaving large stacks into shops without explaining what the material was about. Unless they personally know the owner. A lot of shops are also worried that it could take away sales from their own material while others may not want to get involved in politics.
