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Do you think we should rebuild the roundabout at the Moneenageisha Junction??

_ZeeK_

I refer to this issue because there was an article in todays galway advertiser concerning this issue. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2901864&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=119845166055&aid=-1&id=607401377&oid=119845166055

Traffic has definitely been made worse since the installation of this new traffic light system. Cllr. Walsh suggest it has costed over €320,000 to complete. However, it would no doubt cost another 6figure sum to reinstate the roundabout.

In these tough times, we might not be able to justify spending such money. Do you feel it would be worth the cost to decrease traffic waits? Or are you happy to bear out the extra long waits and just put it down to another traffic management lesson learned by City Council?

I read a brilliant suggestion in another thread about perhaps turning traffic lights off at night, as they do in Germany. Perhaps this would help slightly? But it wouldn't fix the core problem of peak hour traffic volumes.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

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?Cee?view

snubbleste wrote: »

You should read the views of one councillor in today's Tribune. I actually agree with her on the issue.

I'll see the full article tomorrow when I can have a look at the printed version, but from the bit on the website, it seems Cllr. Connolly is trotting out the tired old either/or scenario.

Revolutionary idea - build the bypass AND provide a better public transport infrastructure. Maybe even provide some buses to make effective use of the new bus lanes?

As for the argument that more roads bring more cars. In an Irish context, the argument is rubbish. Over the last approx. ten years the rate of car ownership has grown exponentially. We already have the "more cars". We need our infrastructure to catch up with the cars we already have. The issue of more infrastructure leading to even more cars certainly doesn't arise now.

I'll wait to read the whole article to see if she's proposed anything new or sensible.

galah

JustMary wrote: »

Now you're talking sense!

Of course this should be happening, and I'm sure it could be done totally legally - planning should only be granted for developments that have acceptable traffic management plans.

However, thinking ahead and anticipating increased traffic and other potential issues doesn't go well with brown envelopes, I'm sure...

I mean, just look at Doughiska - how that place was allowed to be built with only that tiny access road, no facilities, nothing, is still beyond belief. This goes for Knocknacarra and any of the newer estates as well, I guess. It's an absolute disgrace, and the people in charge should have been shot for that a long time ago...

lucianot

I live very close to the junction and I have to be stuck there all the time, in the morning and specially in the afternoon. I remember both the old and the new system. Both are bad but this is worse. The section going to town is too narrow for two vehicles but the section going to the GMIT is too wide as it not used as much as the other. So it's a bad design and it should be fixed. The roundabout was mad but this is just too bad designed.

_ZeeK_

lucianot wrote: »

I live very close to the junction and I have to be stuck there all the time, in the morning and specially in the afternoon. I remember both the old and the new system. Both are bad but this is worse. The section going to town is too narrow for two vehicles but the section going to the GMIT is too wide as it not used as much as the other. So it's a bad design and it should be fixed. The roundabout was mad but this is just too bad designed.

so, would you take the best of a bad situation, i.e. the roundabout? or is there anything else you'd like to see? your opinion is valued since you're a local

ceepeedee

merchant08 wrote: »

traffic lights at a very busy juction dont work where every approach is allowed to turn right. it simply takes too long.

Again, I put my hand up and admit I haven't used that junction in a while so I'm very open to correction, but my understanding is that only two incoming directions will be allowed to turn right from both lanes, as opposed to operating right-turn only lanes, with filter lights, for opposing directions.
Regarding the Lough Atalia/College Road junction, which direction takes the most traffic in general - do most people come in from the Moneenageisha mess and head towards the docks or towards Eyre Sq, and vice versa? Am I naive in thinking the city fathers have already pondered this junction and its knock-on effect...?!

[Deleted User]

_ZeeK_ wrote: »

ya... at present it is served by 2 buses a day. its a conspiracy to allow the taxi drivers extra profits!

Those two busses could carry 1/3 of the passengers on an average day
270,000 passengers last year is 740 per day average - 370 each way.

Galway airport is tiny and there isn't the demand for many taxis let alone buses.

lucianot

I'm an adopted local as I'm from Argentina and came here 9 years ago

To be honest a roundabout there is not the way to go. At this stage is better to sit down and synchronize all the traffic lights in the area.
This isn't an intelligent system because as someone said, the settings are the same in a Sunday morning when obviously the system should sense the amount of traffic in the area and modify the times accordingly.
I also noticed a similar issue with the traffic lights at the Lisbaun centre, there is no "green wave" at pick time!
So obviously there is not intelligence behind the design but it can be done for less money, I hope, than rebuilding the whole crossing again.

The bridge over the Lought Atalia is not a bad idea and also creating a better bus system where private companies can open their own lines in order to have more routes at a good price due to competition.
I would gladly leave the car at home but I work in Ballybrit and there is no way I can be on time, never, I tried before and it was a mess.

?Cee?view

lucianot wrote: »

I'm an adopted local as I'm from Argentina and came here 9 years ago

To be honest a roundabout there is not the way to go. At this stage is better to sit down and synchronize all the traffic lights in the area.
This isn't an intelligent system because as someone said, the settings are the same in a Sunday morning when obviously the system should sense the amount of traffic in the area and modify the times accordingly.
I also noticed a similar issue with the traffic lights at the Lisbaun centre, there is no "green wave" at pick time!
So obviously there is not intelligence behind the design but it can be done for less money, I hope, than rebuilding the whole crossing again.

The bridge over the Lought Atalia is not a bad idea and also creating a better bus system where private companies can open their own lines in order to have more routes at a good price due to competition.
I would gladly leave the car at home but I work in Ballybrit and there is no way I can be on time, never, I tried before and it was a mess.

Traffic in Buenos Aires! Now there's an experience to savour. Few things in life are more exhilarating than a taxi ride in BA

What a wonderful country and what wonderful people. I'd swap Galway and it's traffic jams for BA's edge of the seat driving anyday

lucianot

I am not from Buenos Aires, been there but I don't like, I would prefer Galway traffic any day.
Let's not extrapolate please, you wouldn't want to end on a bus driven by a psychopath with a salary double than a school teacher!

I hope the way we drive in Argentina is not an obstacle for expressing my opinion

_ZeeK_

Deleted User wrote: »

Those two busses could carry 1/3 of the passengers on an average day
270,000 passengers last year is 740 per day average - 370 each way.

Galway airport is tiny and there isn't the demand for many taxis let alone buses.

ok. well people are arguing the whole public transport thing and we're on about servicing an area rather than JUST the airport (so, airport road, carnmore, briarhill). can't use public transport if there is none. as it stands, i try to use that whenever i can. but its a mile and a half walk from my house and two a day isn't exactly regular..

?Cee?view

lucianot wrote: »

I am not from Buenos Aires, been there but I don't like, I would prefer Galway traffic any day.
Let's not extrapolate please, you wouldn't want to end on a bus driven by a psychopath with a salary double than a school teacher!
I hope the way we drive in Argentina is not an obstacle for expressing my opinion

I think you took me up wrongly; I wasn't being sarcastic in my last post. I love Argentina and love the frenetic pace of BA - I can see how it would be hard to live there all the time though.

Your comments on intelligent lighting make complete sense.

[Deleted User]

_ZeeK_ wrote: »

but its a mile and a half walk from my house and two a day isn't exactly regular..

I was in a similar situation when I moved home to work here from the UK.
I moved to town after a couple of months.

lucianot

churchview wrote: »

I think you took me up wrongly; I wasn't being sarcastic in my last post. I love Argentina and love the frenetic pace of BA - I can see how it would be hard to live there all the time though.

Your comments on intelligent lighting make complete sense.

Oh, no, sorry, I was joking, all good here. Peace!

Chris_533976

Moneenageisha can be solved with an overblown plan.

Build a new bridge across Lough Atalia next to the railway bridge. Its greenfield (mostly) from there to the Coast Road. Make that outbound only, make the Dublin Road inbound only. Link them with an upgraded Ballyloughlan road.

Its completely unlikely, but with a bit of CPO muscle would be possible.

?Cee?view

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Moneenageisha can be solved with an overblown plan.

Build a new bridge across Lough Atalia next to the railway bridge. Its greenfield (mostly) from there to the Coast Road. Make that outbound only, make the Dublin Road inbound only. Link them with an upgraded Ballyloughlan road.

Its completely unlikely, but with a bit of CPO muscle would be possible.

It's that kind of left field thinking that's needed. Some might say that yours is a mad idea, but what's needed is ideas like yours to solve this crisis (and let's face it, traffic in Galway is now a crisis). Unfortunately I don't think that there's anyone with the imagination or balls involved in designing "traffic solutions" for Galway that could even begin to think the way you're thinking.

lucianot

I completely agree, that would be the first thing, esier than fixing the public transport.

Redhairedguy

It's gonna happen, irregardless of anything else said.

It happened before, it will happen again.

po0k

_ZeeK_ wrote: »

ok. well people are arguing the whole public transport thing and we're on about servicing an area rather than JUST the airport (so, airport road, carnmore, briarhill). can't use public transport if there is none. as it stands, i try to use that whenever i can. but its a mile and a half walk from my house and two a day isn't exactly regular..

Lights or roundabouts, makes no difference if there's a stupid ratio of people:cars at peak hours.

I'm purely curious, as I was in a similar situation when growing up, but what is stopping you cycling the distance to the bus-stop, assuming more buses were provided?
Weather? Lack of secure bike parking? Dangerous road to cycle on? Being sweaty getting on the bus to town?

I've been driving for about 3 years. I have a car (a rather expensive luxury good don't forget) when I go travelling long distance, or when something bulky needs to be moved.
I associate the rather large cost owning with with the increased freedom of movement it provides, as long as I can afford to fuel it.
churchview, the exponential growth is alot of the problem, but something that needs to be normalised.
Given the recent ~66% slash of the roads maintenace budget, we're going to be back to potholes everywhere (instead of just the 'backroads') wrecking suspensions.
It will be self correcting, whether it is pleasant and co-operative or brutal and is our choice.
Done effectively and nationally, the country could save having to build concrete spaghetti everywhere and ruining the place by concentrating on more effective use of the roads.

In general, I think the following could help:

Reduce cars by facilitating carpooling.
Remove/clarify the clause in insurance policies regarding 'driving for profit', which I understand makes effective wide-scale Car Pooling technically illegal.
Things like The Internet and community comms tools like this very forum, Twitter-like mobile 'friend-casting' could be leveraged by Galway City and County Councils to help facilitate people sharing car journeys for mutual benefit and virtually zero cost.
Sort out how to pay/compensate each other for fuel/driving in a simple open fashion, it could even inject a bit of healthy competion amongst drivers.
Efficient vehicle and driving style suddenly becomes hugely pragmatic if dare I say it fashionable.
Reduce cars by encouraging the use of bike/park and ride facilities, secure car and bike parking with an emphasis on bikes.
Road widening where possible - not for more lanes but more foot and cyclepaths.
There are too many roads where you taking a high risk if you are cycling or walking. That is not right or attractive.
Folk are out of work on the dole, could be feeling a bit frustrated or bored. Offer those who are willing and competent work improving our country's infrastructure.
There are stretches of the N59 and N84 that are bad enough in a car on a rainy winter evening, and you simply can't walk or cycle on them.
More dynamic, responsive .ie intelligently designed traffic lights, in every sense of the word.
Surely there are improvements to be made to take advantage of the network to be responsive and pre-emptive.
Collect taffic flow data. Identify patterns and causes of build-ups. Detect those signatures and accomodate or prioritise traffic flows ie. rush-hour.
Leaving a chain of lights green for a few seconds longer could cut down on the stop-start faffing about when there's a bunch of closely spaced lights.
Communicate status info, lights change count-down with the drivers via scrolling marquee text in the traffic light so they're not cursing the lights.
Vastly improved signage standards. Instead of having an arrow painted on the road at the junction, also paint it a few times before that. Should cut down on out-of-towners stopping to figure out wtf to do.
Safe pedestrian crossing of the Quincentennial bridge at multiple points.
The bridge, while doing it's job well, could do with some improvements.
It could be an artistic and aritectural feather in our cap if done correctly, I'm thinking foot bridges over the top with slip-ramps out-rigged on the sides of the bridge, blending in with the existing pathworks. And nice lighting.
Maybe it could complement and match the style bridges further down.

Just some ideas.

A note of caution regarding relying on privatised bus operators: they will serve profitable routes exclusively, or they will go out of business. There is a need for a publicly-run service to facilitate transport for as many of those who need it as possible. As anachronistically socialist as it may sound ('How dare you operate at a loss taking Bridie to the shops!'), but how else might alot of folk get around?

KevR

merchant08 wrote: »

traffic lights at a very busy juction dont work where every approach is allowed to turn right. it simply takes too long.

Possibly ban right turns for Dublin Road inbound (make anyone wishing to tunr right use the Cemetary Cross roundabout to loop back) and ban right turns from Cemetary Cross side onto Lough Atalia (if you have just come from Cemetary Cross roundabout you could instead use the Bohermore route for town/College Rd/Lough Atalia areas).

Then there would be no need for seperate sequences for Dublin Rd and Cemetary Cross traffic and you could have longer sequences all round.

It's just a thought, I don't know if it would work.

_ZeeK_

@ po0k...
"assuming more buses were provided". I would if there were. Never said I wouldn't. But thats a big assumption, tbh. Its not exactly a profitable route.

irisheddie85

I think the lights have improved slightly since the 2 lanes from cemetry cross have been allowed to go straight through. But really to help traffic in the city centre more than just this junction would have to be improved.

A road running parallel to the train track to bring cars to renmore/Dublin road would help lough Atalia but the residents may not like this.

The headford road has to be improved so cars can use the dual carrigeways (with revised speed limits) to go around the outskirts of the town rather than through cemetry cross, monegeisha.

And the tuam road should be widened to 3 lanes, 2 lanes in the direction of peak traffic or 4 if it could be done. It is already wide enough for 3 lanes most of the way from cemetry cross to the dual carrigeway.

Last year there was talk of turning college road into a one way road with a bus lane. If the frequency of buses was increased and enough other measures were put in place to deal with the displacement of traffic this may be a good idea. But could not be the first step to take.

Mainly I believe all traffic lights have to work together in the city it happens too often where you get a green light but cant go anywhere because the next set of lights are red. This is pointless and makes a driver more likely to block the junction by driving across it anyway (I know I have done this at times)

[Deleted User]

po0k wrote: »

Lights or roundabouts, makes no difference if there's a stupid ratio of people:cars at peak hours.

That is very true - there are too many people thinking they should be able to leave their house 5 - 25 miles from Eyre Square and arrive in town 10-30 minutes later.

I do remember that (living 8 miles from town and getting a lift from my aunt on Saturday mornings at 8.35 but still being at work by 9 despite having to walk from the car park and still having time to get a coffee) but it was a generation ago.

po0k wrote: »

I'm purely curious, as I was in a similar situation when growing up, but what is stopping you cycling the distance to the bus-stop, assuming more buses were provided?

I have no idea of the personal circumstances of people in this thread but there is a big element of urban generated one off country houses mentality - why can't I have my own house in Gaeltacht an Carn Mór with two point one cars on half an acre and drive where I want to when I want to without getting stuck in traffic while also having a bus at the top of the road every ten minutes.

po0k wrote: »

[*]Road widening where possible - not for more lanes but more foot and cyclepaths.
There are too many roads where you taking a high risk if you are cycling or walking. That is not right or attractive.

I do think there are many opportunities to widen our roads - not just for pedestrians and cyclists but for motorists too - as long as there are traffic light controlled junctions to allow the non motorists to cross.

po0k wrote: »

[*]Safe pedestrian crossing of the Quincentennial bridge at multiple points.
The bridge, while doing it's job well, could do with some improvements.

The bridge is a lot safer now that you can go from either side on the university side and have steps from the Dyke road side - only one set missing now.

[Deleted User]

irisheddie85 wrote: »

I And the tuam road should be widened to 3 lanes, 2 lanes in the direction of peak traffic or 4 if it could be done. It is already wide enough for 3 lanes most of the way from cemetry cross to the dual carrigeway.

I think there is room for four lanes from the Bohermore roundabout out if the city / NRA don't mind taking peoples gardens and parking spaces.

There are no buildings I can think of that open their doors onto the footpath.

lucianot

And I just remembered that they enabled the two lanes now from the Joyce roundabout to the Dublin Road, probably to avoid that long queue uphill. That's nice but the problem is after the lights in front of the G Hotel the road narrows and also the bus lane starts! People doesn't know what to do, an accident almost happened and will happen if this is not clarified.

Chris_533976

Contrary to popular belief, with a bit of CPO muscle (and a 1.4km long viaduct) is is possible to grade separate every roundabout on the ring road. Wont happen though.

Mrs OBumble

po0k wrote: »

A note of caution regarding relying on privatised bus operators: they will serve profitable routes exclusively, or they will go out of business. There is a need for a publicly-run service to facilitate transport for as many of those who need it as possible. As anachronistically socialist as it may sound ('How dare you operate at a loss taking Bridie to the shops!'), but how else might alot of folk get around?

You're confusing ownership and funding.

Private operators already receive public funding for travel pass customers and for school-transport runs. There is no reason why they should not provide other services that the government wants to subsidise for social or traffic-reduction purposes.

Many would argue that there is no reason for the government to own a bus company at all: there is no need for government capital to be tied up in buses when the private sector can provide them, and it tends to lead to managers who aren't well-enough trained and/or are too comfortable as civil-servants.

corribdude

_ZeeK_ wrote: »

ever been to the Eye cinema at night? say a 9o'clock or 11o'clock screening? after the end of the movie, every1 filters out at once and you have the bizarre result of traffic tailbacks all the way back into the wellpark underground carpark AT 1 IN THE MORNING!! Its weird, its crazy, its annoying.

I said 10pm in my post, not many films ending at 10 considering they all basically start at 9 or later. Duh. Oh and by the way, things are alot worse now for people leaving the eye 'AT 1 IN THE MORNING' and going through the junction than they were before. There used to be hardly any tailback into wellpark retail park, when the roundabout was in place it was actually very free flowing as there was little traffic coming from the other directions at that time of night. Now it doesn't matter if there is little or no traffic as you are going to be stuck at the lights waiting for traffic light changes (3-4 minutes between changes), hence why traffic is getting tailed back right into the retail park every night.

[Deleted User]

po0k wrote: »

Cars don't have the passenger density required.

Increase passenger density per metre length of vehicle, reduce the density of vehicles, reduce the traffic build-up.

Get out of your cars and march to demand the provisioning of expanded bus services and commit to utilising them - taking care of any 'cost' arguments.
How much does it cost you in petrol/diesel - never mind parking, depreciation/mileage on your vehicle, medical costs due to breathing in the fumes from the vehicle in front - to get into work?
Compare that with a fare of eg. 2euro, or even 4 euro each way.
Obviously buses won't be able to serve every commuter's needs, but it should take a sizable chunk of cars off the roads, which would lead to improved quality of life for everyone in my opinion.

Buses have priority for a reason. They carry more people. Depending on the highly variable skill and alertness of individual drivers makes a balls of any traffic system.

Roundabouts rely on this just as much and after a certain traffic threshold you get people having to perform risky dashes to get on to the thing (ie. Bother Mór RAB).

This all seems so fscking obvious.

what sort of dreamland do you live in? since none of what you've said above is ever going to happen, it's just a useless idealistic viewpoint.
my car costs me 550euro a month between loan, insurance, tax and petrol. i'm damned if i'm not gonna use the thing, and not only not use it, but have someone tell me to not use it in a thread discussing a massive error by the council and have it as a 'solution' to the problem.

if the council didn't have a model so simple as to estimate cars per minute passing through junction before and after the project, our problem is the council. it's a joke that should have never got passed the planning stages. i'd say traffic per minute has halved at least. people are slow taking of at traffic lights and as someone else said, especially bad when every direction can turn right.

Zzippy

Monorail! Monorail! Monorail! :pac:

snubbleste

Zzippy wrote: »

Monorail! Monorail! Monorail! :pac:

èxcellent suggestion