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The SF3 v SF4 thread

Cunny-Funt

Been meaning to start a discussion on this in its own thread for sometime. Let me start by saying I love both games. But lets just say... well, having SSF2T be the right wing and SF3:3rd strike (3s from now on) be the left... I deffo wish SFIV leaned a little bit more to the left

I look forward to the next version, if there is one or rather whatever way it may be, SF4.2 or SF5 and hope it does lean that bit more over to the left.

So lets make this thread about discussing what features like about the games and what we'd like to maybe see in the next Street Fighter. I can't see them adding gameplay changes in a patch so it'd have to be a new one.

So anyway to get the ball rolling I'll continue what I was going to go into in another thread. I was talking about the dash. I love the dash in 3s, love it. Its a shadow of its former self in SFIV and I suspect this is due to the game leaning more towards the right. Trying not to piss off the ST crowd too much.

In 3s (obviously it varies from character to character) the dash is extremely fast and fluid and has very very little recovery. You can dash at someone and do a move almost instantly. Its great for breaking those kinda...stalemate moments. You know the ones... where both of you have just countered and successfully predicted each others last few moves and are now basically just crouching and staring at each other for a few milliseconds. The all of a sudden you can dash across the screen and grab the guy before he can react, almost dashing into a grab.

You can't do that in SFIV, you just can't. I played 3s for a year leading up to SFIV's release and naturally I started playing it like 3s when I got it, dashing at the other guy will get you KO'ed in SFIV as he has the advantage. Theres far more time in between the dashing animation finishing, and you being able to do anything with your character. So your pretty open after a dash in SFIV. In 3s your not. I also miss the speed and how much ground is covered.

I touched on this in another thread and Azza replied, I'll paste it here:

Azza wrote: »

Problem with 3S for me is thats its all footsies, thanks to its parry system. There is no ranged game like there is in 2 or 4.

The focus attack system is a well thought out compromise that allows you to counter opponents while keeping the fireball game alive.

Dash isn't useless in SF IV nor does it have a delay afterwards in which you can't do anything. Used in conjunction with focus attacks to get through certain types of attacks it its a pretty cool game addition. FADC is also a nice new edition, just damage scaling needs to be looked at to make more valuable.

Not saying SF IV is flawless. I do think it too defensive slanted. Auto correction is a pain and should be removed and put down and reversals are a bit too easy, which make cross up and meaty attacks too risky. Its also probably the slowest SF in the series. But still the depth is there and there is large roster characters and balance is quite good. I think SF IV is a very good first version and given time and revisions it will match the heights of ST.

I actually agree with most of that, cept for the dash part in terms of there being no delay. There is, its always one of the 1st things I notice when changing between games.

I love the parry system although I was never good at it. However I also love the focus attack system too and I'm not that good at that either lol. Also the characters in SFIV are better. Cept there is a few from 3s I'd love to see in there too. Ibuki being the main one.

Its decently balanced too. Compared to 3s. However I really miss meaties, reversals are too damn easy in SFIV. I hate how godly jab is in SFIV, damn you balrog!!!! lol

Theres actually loads of stuff I can get into but this post is far too long. So let the discussion begin! :pac:

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animaX

I agree with you cunny-funt about the dash/throwing. It just seems so much quicker in 3s and can be hard to see coming. However I don't think its anything to do with frame data etc I think its just that 3s is faster paced. Once you get used to the timing of throwing after dash in 3s, that same timing doesn't work in SF4, making it seem slower. I felt this too.

Placebo

Well sf4 characters are more bulky and slow, the game is not as fast paced as 3S as animaX mentioned.
Third strike can get very fast paced, just add in a very good ibuki player.

mr_kyle

Yeah, but faster does not equal better.

Cunny-Funt

Well better is down to opinion, but personally I'd deffo like it if dashing and movement was closer to 3s then it is now for the next SF. Why, would you be one of those that would rather dash was removed?

There was a lot of angry ST people on SRK when they heard about dashing and ex moves. There's a lot of 3s hate out there.

animaX wrote: »

Once you get used to the timing of throwing after dash in 3s, that same timing doesn't work in SF4, making it seem slower. I felt this too.

yeah but its more then that, your far more open in attempting this then you are in 3s, its like dash forward......throw versus dash forward throw. Theres more time of the other guy to hit you. They could have has the movement and speed the way it is now but still have dash to throw like it is in 3s, they just didn't want it. At least that's how it seems. They didn't want the game too close to the left, they didnt wanna piss off the people on the right.

Owwmykneecap

SRk is 90% morons and 10% trolls.

Anyway, SFIV is a long way off being a great street fighter game, While 3s has problems, (balance being the main one) i stil much prefer it to IV.

mr_kyle

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

Well better is down to opinion, but personally I'd deffo like it if dashing and movement was closer to 3s then it is now for the next SF. Why, would you be one of those that would rather dash was removed?

I was referring to overall game speed as opposed to any mechanics within the game to move faster chap. Since I thought that was what Placebo and AnimaX were getting at.

Cunny-Funt

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

SRk is 90% morons and 10% trolls.

Indeed hehe but you forgot to include the % of total pricks in that though. Some of them remind me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz6VG3ha_mE&feature=channel_page

SRK is not a friendly place lol...

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

Anyway, SFIV is a long way off being a great street fighter game, While 3s has problems, (balance being the main one) i stil much prefer it to IV.

I love 3s, theres a lot of things in SFIV I wish were closer to 3s however I do think its one of the greatest street fighter games made. Plus its early days.

mr_kyle wrote: »

I was referring to overall game speed as opposed to any mechanics within the game to move faster chap. Since I thought that was what Placebo and AnimaX were getting at.

Oh right yeah. Indeed its still down to opinion there I suppose. The earlier renditions of SF2 were a lot slower then the later ones and there are people who preferred that alright.

FoamyMushroom

Howdy!

What I like about 3 n IV.

3S-
In 3S there wasn't much distance play i.e. Throwing FB's. 3S it's all up close and some what personal imo, and because its all up close there's always tech going on, (Parrys, throwing etc.)
I like the Parry system yea, But at times when a person tries it It prob wont work (unless you spent hours upon hours of time in parry training) if the parry is missed it will prob will lead to an ass whoppin and no one likes an ass whoppin. BUT if that parry hits, its your opponent time for a whoppin. Which I always enjoy

The supers in 3S I love, but not the the way there gained or used.
To gain a super, jus hold of your opponent and medium punch, or kick to get your meter up. (Which is complete bull s**t imo) The meter should be gained from kickin the crap outta the other guy, not backing off, gettin a super then jumping back in.
The way the super is used, is quite crap, because im sure everyone has noticed that the majority of suppers used in 3S are done usually after a CR. medium kick, Yea sure ya can parry the medium kick with ease (somtimes) but if your not playing against a person who knows they hit a CR. Medium kick, they will still lead off and do the supper compleatly wasting it... The person will prob back off not knowing what to do, trying to get another super bar with out attacking and jus repeat the process.

The characters im grand with, I only use Yun (who is kinda broken) but still he's still fun (EY.EY.EY etc..etc..):p

SFIV-
Right... well first thing I have to say is yea its slowed down, cant dash as fast, but at least ya still can.. You just have to learn how to use it to your advantage.
As an Example. (I use Akuma, When a person tries to jump in on me, I dash back and UL.Demon) Using it to my advantage, just has to be timed.
In IV there's more of a distant game been played when shoto's are picked, and we all know the majority of players are shoto's.
I don't mind a distant game really, it gives time to think, and the fireballs will hopefully work to your favor to make your opponent to make an error, which are easily acted on.
The Focus system I love more than parrying, simply because its easier, and can be frequently used to your advantage. Such as it will force your opponent to jump etc. Plus the focus can be used for a quick and reliable dash. Most times when I focus to dash the opponent will try knock me outta it, they usually panic to get close to me or outta my range, I simply dash out link into a combo, or a simple grab, and what's best they dont expect it.. (Sometimes)...
The supers in this game, are better imo because people are using there smarts to hit them, Such as Abel who covers what 40% of the the screen when his ultra is done... Thats amazin range to get a ultra in if the person made a mistake. The supers can be linked in too which I love, such as Chun's with those legs of hers, if she hits that in the corner, she can easily link into her ultra which most likely will hit.
A few Characters can link super to ultra. I.e. Gen, Ryu.
Not many people have seen ryu done it but i'll try expalin it best I can... (Ryu: 2 hit medium Punch, Medium or light Srk, to Super, then time it Right, ULTRA!.. Give or take one or two hits, its a pretty cool combo..)
Hmmmm, Im sure im missing out on tons here, but thats what I think of either game.. lol
Im not gona even talk about Sagat n Seth, Capcom said for themselves, there a tad overpowerd! ) a tad my arse...
Not gona talk about tiers in IV either... the Tier list's are constantly changed.

Gday

DARK-KNIGHT

hi where can i get SF3? and on what console? would love to get it on my 360 if possible!

K.O.Kiki

You'd be best... "acquiring" the ROMs for PC emulators.

This is actually the closest you'll get to experiencing the real game, because:

The PS2 version was never released in Europe.
The Xbox version is terrible on the 360.
We have no arcades in Ireland.
AND
Even if we did have an arcade machine with 3S, it would either be banged-up with crap controls/screen, or the ROM would be so poorly looked-after that it would suffer the dreaded CPS3-death (when the back-up battery died, it would take the whole cart with it)

animaX

raycaulwell wrote: »

would love to get it on my 360 if possible!

As kiki said, you can get the anniversary edition for xbox and play it on 360 through the back compatibility update but it is not the best version. Its not tournament worthy really. For example, you simply can't play with Q as most of his best combo's come from launchers but the game slows to a crawl as soon as you launch an opponent.

The ps2 version is better but you would need a modded ps2. Emulators are really the way to go (in particular 2df if you have an internet connection)

Cunny-Funt

Greetings FoamyMushroom

FoamyMushroom wrote: »

The supers in 3S I love, but not the the way there gained or used.
To gain a super, jus hold of your opponent and medium punch, or kick to get your meter up. (Which is complete bull s**t imo) The meter should be gained from kickin the crap outta the other guy, not backing off, gettin a super then jumping back in.

Yeah I hate that about 3s and its something I never do myself anyways.

FoamyMushroom wrote: »

The way the super is used, is quite crap, because im sure everyone has noticed that the majority of suppers used in 3S are done usually after a CR. medium kick,

I disagree, I love super cancels , they're still in SFIV too, its just that supers are not used much.

FoamyMushroom wrote: »

Yea sure ya can parry the medium kick with ease (somtimes) but if your not playing against a person who knows they hit a CR. Medium kick, they will still lead off and do the supper compleatly wasting it... The person will prob back off not knowing what to do, trying to get another super bar with out attacking and jus repeat the process.

Sounds like you've had some sucky matchs, do you play on 2DF at all?

FoamyMushroom wrote: »

A few Characters can link super to ultra. I.e. Gen, Ryu.
Not many people have seen ryu done it but i'll try expalin it best I can... (Ryu: 2 hit medium Punch, Medium or light Srk, to Super, then time it Right, ULTRA!.. Give or take one or two hits, its a pretty cool combo..)

Pretty much as long as the super is canceled off of a dragon punch you can follow up with a ultra, whatever you do before you connect the DP is up to you but remember the more hits you add to a combo, the more of a chance the combo might actually do less damage then one using less hits. In other words starting the combo with a single HP into standing HP then DP would only be 3 hits, versus a jump in double medium punch to standing mp to DP which is 4, might actually cause the super to ultra combo to do less damage. If you get me.

raycaulwell wrote: »

hi where can i get SF3? and on what console? would love to get it on my 360 if possible!

Play it on your PC, hook up your 360 pad to it or whatever you use.:cool:

FoamyMushroom

Yea cunny I've had some pretty terrible games and it sucked lol
And for 2DF? Na I don't play it often..

And I get ya yea

hah

Cunny-Funt

if you like 3s m8, 2DF is a fantastic place to play it!

Cunny-Funt

Actually on the double jump factor. Would be handy in SF4 alright for dealing with people who play the 'run away come and get me' game. Your only option is to jump to them or dash, and with the defensive guy on the advantage he'll get you both ways. At least with a double jump your a little less predictable on approach.

I do hope the next SF is less in the favor of the defensive and I really hope it gets rid of the auto turn around thing for if a guy jumps over you. People shouldn't be rewarded for inputting in the wrong direction.

My problem is playing 3s damages my SFIV game lol, habits from 3s get you ko'd badly. I was always worried I'd start trying to parry or something in SFIV when I got, but that never happened, what does happen however and still to this day, I go for meaties, I jump over people when they're on the ground, I try to dash and grab, with akuma I still try to dragon punch people after connecting an air spin kick which doesnt work the same way in sf4 as it did in 3 (in 3 you connect with an air spin kick you can pretty much always follow up, in 4, you can end up at the wrong side etc)

Amusingly enough, though, when I played 3s recently, I tried to focus attack LOL!

Azza

Auto correct needs to die, I hate being nailed by shoryuken or ex.torpedo that was never going to hit me if it can out in the direction inputted.

At times though the defensive nature of the game annoys me. Attacking play is far less safe than just turtling.

Cunny-Funt

Really was a strange thing for them to put it I mean... really wtf were they thinking?

I wonder if they'd add an air focus attack? That might be interesting. Or terrible. lol.

Azza

I think they really need to make reversals harder to do on wakeup. Make the windows for inputting a reversal much much shorter.

Placebo

I think i need to revisit this thread.
Playing SF III properly with real competition [ramza] last night after a long absence of around 3 years, has made me realise how bad SF III actually is.
Perhaps its the lack of practice or maybe the levelness of SF4 has totally put me of SF III for good.
The System comes across ridiculous broken, priorities on moves are silly. Even some hit box's seem off. It closely resembled mugen to me last night and its a sad case to even say that as i was a huge huge SFIII fan, i think SF4 has raised the bar and in comparison SF III looks like a broken joke. The parry system is just come across awful with the damage some characters can inflict.

However saying that, SF III is around 1O years old at this stage so it is not a fair comparison but either way good bye SF3, you wreck my head.

Ken B

Placebo wrote: »

I think i need to revisit this thread.
Playing SF III properly with real competition [ramza] last night after a long absence of around 3 years, has made me realise how bad SF III actually is.
Perhaps its the lack of practice or maybe the levelness of SF4 has totally put me of SF III for good.
The System comes across ridiculous broken, priorities on moves are silly. Even some hit box's seem off. It closely resembled mugen to me last night and its a sad case to even say that as i was a huge huge SFIII fan, i think SF4 has raised the bar and in comparison SF III looks like a broken joke. The parry system is just come across awful with the damage some characters can inflict.

However saying that, SF III is around 1O years old at this stage so it is not a fair comparison but either way good bye SF3, you wreck my head.

Myself and Trev were having this very discussion yesterday evening. We were saying that, although we absolutely love SFIII, it is almost impossible to play these days. The main reason for us being, that the sprites are very irritating for our old eyes! As much as I miss Hugo, Alex Urien, the backdrops and the amazing animation, I'm in no rush to ever play it again.

As for the game mechanics.....Placebo, Dreddy and Ramza have all battered me, so yes, this game is majorly busted. Sucks, in fact....

Placebo

thats quite true Ken B [also whos trev?], it is actually very frustrating and it really affects your game play in SFIV, specially because i play chunli, i found myself trying to do STOMPS after jumping pierce in the air, charging all the time etc etc.

It will always have a special place in our hearts. Just like an ex or something similarly FAGGY :rolleyes:

K.O.Kiki

I'm also in the camp of "Ramza's whoring of high-priority normals has made me realise how horrid this game can be."

Super Balance Fighter IV: The Fireballs!! is now my favourite Street Fighter to play.

Even if it's kinda crap

Ken B

Trev's my twin brother. lol

Ps: Those Ex games were too gay to function.

I have`1 & 2 btw.

Placebo

i meant an ex girlfriend lol but i think either meaning works here !

Ken B

Ooops...just goes to show that I have SF on the brain!!

How faggy is that?

animaX

Placebo wrote: »

i meant an ex girlfriend lol but i think either meaning works here !

Best misunderstanding ever!!

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I'm also in the camp of "Ramza's whoring of high-priority normals has made me realise how horrid this game can be."

Yeah, i'm in that boat too. Playing someone who really knows the game inside out (Ramza, Tin, etc) makes it look horribly inaccessible. Better to play it with people who still get a rush of excitement from parrying a fullscreen fireball :cool:

Scavenger XIII

I still much prefer the general "feel" of 3S to SF4 by a long shot.

It's the woeful balance that's the problem.

Dreddybajs

animaX wrote: »

Yeah, i'm in that boat too. Playing someone who really knows the game inside out (Ramza, Tin, etc) makes it look horribly inaccessible. Better to play it with people who still get a rush of excitement from parrying a fullscreen fireball :cool:

I do pretty much okay against Ramza and I only picked the game up maybe 8 months ago in any kind of serious way. Getting battered by Tin at 3s is honestly the most fun I've ever had at a SF game as well.

Farz that's a fair enough opinion, I don't understand what you're saying about the hitboxes though... the ones in SF4 are far more ****ed imo!

Placebo

i dont mean the accuracy of hit box's but more so the hit property and the priorities associated with those properties. I'll give examples laters

K.O.Kiki

I'll give examples RIGHT NOW:

Chun's st.Fierce, back Fierce.
Urien's st.Strong.
:mad: