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Child Item

Baby P's abusers revealed

Otis Driftwood

Baby P's mother and her sadistic boyfriend have been named for the first time after a court order keeping their identities secret expired.Tracey Connelly, 28,and Steven Barker, 33, were responsible for the death of 17-month-old Peter Connelly in his blood-spattered room in August 2007.

He had suffered 50 injuries, including fractured ribs and a broken back.

It can also be disclosed that the third defendant in the case, Jason Owen, 37, is Barker's brother and that the pair were also accused of assaulting their own grandmother.

Connelly and Barker, of Tottenham, north London, were sentenced in May for causing or allowing Peter's death.

Father-of-four Owen was also jailed for the same offence, which took place while he was staying at Peter's home.

The semi-detached house was filthy and dead animals - snake food - were left lying around the house, along with pornography.

Connelly's two dogs and Barker's rottweiler Kaiser, which was used to terrify Peter, also lived there.

Doctors, social workers and police failed to save Peter despite him being on the Haringey Council child protection register.

After the trio's Old Bailey trial ended in November last year, there was public outrage at the way Peter was let down by the authorities.

All three defendants were cleared of murder

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090811/tuk-revealed-horror-of-baby-p-s-home-lif-dba1618.html

Ive followed this case since it first came to light (as Im sure alot of you have) and I am still as shocked and enraged that something like this could happen as I was when I first heard about it.
I simply do not have the words to express how I feel about the level of abuse this poor little mite went through before eventually giving up the fight.
I have tears in my fcuking eyes as I write this.

An innocent child endured endless horror and torture at the hands of people that should have been protecting him,Peter was unforgiveably failed at every corner by people that are paid to protect those who cannot protect themselves.This case proves (if there was any doubt) that there are monsters in this world.The boy went through a slew of abuse that a normal person would not inflict on a fcuking animal and was left alone to die in his own little cot.

If ever there was a valid case for vigilante justice this is it and I can say with not one shred of doubt that I hope the 3 bastards that did this and allowed it to happen are made to suffer each and every day of their misreable fcuking lives until they are eventually put down like the dogs they are.

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witnessmenow

What punishment fits the crime here?

Death is too good for them

They'll be separated in prison form anyone who can do them harm

Both of them should be neutered, branded and fu#kin made parade the streets. Scum of the earth

Otis Driftwood

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Because someone is opposed to the death sentence they are a bleeding heart liberal?

I am neither pro nor anti capital punishment,everyone is entitled to their opinion,it was the tone his post I didnt like.

You have made constructive posts about this,his was simply inflammatory.

lala stone

The mother in question is completely fcuked up, her Irish ma was a prostitute a drug abuser and her dad was a paedo... Does anyone know how much of a factor this would have played in the case???

Otis Driftwood

lala stone wrote: »

The mother in question is completely fcuked up, her Irish ma was a prostitute a drug abuser and her dad was a paedo... Does anyone know how much of a factor this would have played in the case???

There are people that have came from similar back grounds and not ended up perpetrating this level of barbarity.

Was her upbringing a factor,probably.

However much of the blame lies with the UK social services.The child had been seen 60 odd times by social workers,nurses etc,was on the endangered child list but yet nothing was done about it.

Irishcrx

Makes me ****ing sick to my core, the poor wee fella. I can't believe the world we live in sometimes...I really can't , maybe thats why I'm so defensive and skeptical of everyone because sickos like this walk around us everyday you have to be wary cause there are people everywhere who would violently kill you for a phone or change for a bus.

sopick1982

what id give to be locked in a cell with the 3 of them and a heap of power tools id show em what torture is all about they'd wish they were never born the filthy *****

[Deleted User]

I think that rather than plot the demise of the childs abuser it would be far mor eproductive if we were to put our energy into trying to ensure that this never happens again.

topper75

Deleted User wrote: »

I think that rather than plot the demise of the childs abuser it would be far mor eproductive if we were to put our energy into trying to ensure that this never happens again.

We have done.
See post #48 in the thread.

karlr42

The fact of the matter is, many many people are just completely incapable of raising children. But unfortunately, it is seen as a right to have as many children as one wishes, regardless of whether one has the monetary, logistical, or most importantly, emotional, strength to raise them.
Children born of these people often become adults such as the two accused, who in turn lack the ability to raise children.
I'm not going to suggest a solution, because I know of none- this is just another clash of the lower brain functions(the sexual urge to procreate) and the higher level functions(functioning in a society, morality).

El Siglo

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Sorry, i killed a guy with a trident and on the advice of my co-workers, i'm laying low for a while.

Otherwise, i'd take the time to point out what a bunch of moronic, knee-jerk reactonary, dribbling fuckwits you all are.

Now, please, continue your circus of self righteous angry mob bullshit, i'm sure posting the same five shitty talking points of HURRR, DEATH PENALITY IZ GUD will really ****ing change the world.

Fucking cretins.

That's it I suppose, anyone who reverts to a more 'arcane' method of dealing with such vile criminality is some sort of a cretin and degenerate? Well, I suppose beating the shite out of helpless child is much better then? Seriously, what would you do if you had a child and some person was to beat the shit out of it, break its back, ribs etc... Would you be so caring of that individual? Would you be less repulsed by either the fact that a loved one is dead or that the perpetrator will be free in a few years? For any do-gooders out their, go have yourself an 'experience' as a victim in the justice system, especially the one in Ireland, and come back and tell me that capital punishment is still unnecessary.

El Siglo

nedtheshed wrote: »

Was her upbringing a factor,probably.

Fuck her upbringing, degenerate bitch! This is a hard upbringing.

walshb

afatbollix wrote: »

So this guy who was:

On the run from the police because he was with a 15 year old girl ( so statutory rape)

Beat up his grandmother twice and was being brought to court for attempted manslater

was beating up his friends girl friend

Beat up her kid and killed him.

Raped a 2 year old girl...

You know the worst thing.. He isent paying for his crimes.. he has not accepted his crimes so will not change, as he sees it he did nothing wrong..

Yet he gets out in 10 years... it’s a sad day for mankind

No, he got a life sentence for the rape of a two year old girl, and has to serve a minimum of ten years,and he got a 12 year sentence for the death on baby P.

These sentences will run concurrently as far as I know

DrumSteve

these are obviously 2 very sick individuals. what is plain to see is that they cannot offer anything to society in general(i mean that bloke raped a 2 year old girl).

How do we solve this conundrum? well it cannot be solved by people sitting there acting out their torture porn fantasies. everyone failed that child. it must be seen too nothing like that happens in this country in future as england would be so close to us as to make this a matter for our concern.

A certain level of rights must be removed from the perpertraitors in instances such as this. Maybe chemical castration or something to that effect would be useful. I dont think the death penalty would be useful here. They die and people will forget. they remain alive and the memory of this poor child stays alive. and we can ensure nothin like this will happen again.

Fremen

This thread scares the crap out of me. Shows just what a mob is capable of when it really gets going. I think it would make a damn interesting sociological study.

We have people supporting torture and violent death as a punishment (burning at the stake?!). Does no one else find that freaky? I suppose it wouldn't do to remind any of you of the possibility of a miscarriage of justice on your way to the shops to get the firelighters.

Some posters claim that morality goes out the window in a case like this. I put it to you that rationality goes out the window.

Go ahead, flame away.

Stark

DrumSteve wrote:

I dont think the death penalty would be useful here. They die and people will forget. they remain alive and the memory of this poor child stays alive. and we can ensure nothin like this will happen again

I don't get the logic here. They stay alive, they get new identities, people forget anyway. Marie-Thérèse Kouao is presumably still alive. That didn't exactly help Baby P despite them being from the same area.

DrumSteve

Stark wrote: »

I don't get the logic here. They stay alive, they get new identities, people forget anyway. Marie-Thérèse Kouao is presumably still alive. That didn't exactly help Baby P despite them being from the same area.

yeah but i cant see these people ever being released(though stranger things have happened). plus the nature of the crimes were so shocking i dont think people will forget... people still remember the moors murders, sarah payne and so forth.

walshb

Fremen wrote: »

This thread scares the crap out of me. Shows just what a mob is capable of when it really gets going. I think it would make a damn interesting sociological study.

We have people supporting torture and violent death as a punishment (burning at the stake?!). Does no one else find that freaky? I suppose it wouldn't do to remind any of you of the possibility of a miscarriage of justice on your way to the shops to get the firelighters.

Some posters claim that morality goes out the window in a case like this. I put it to you that rationality goes out the window.

Go ahead, flame away.

I am not for this mob mentality but if I heard that Barker was
viciously beaten to death, I honestly would be happy and would
have a drink to celebrate. If it was my child that he did it to, I would without
doubt ENJOY makin' his life as painful as possible. I am anti violence in general, but
when something comes so close to home, then a natural reaction for a human
is to enact revenge. It's part of our nature, and even the most docile and gentle
people can become vicious and barbaric when they are really really pushed.

Stark

DrumSteve wrote:

yeah but i cant see these people ever being released(though stranger things have happened). plus the nature of the crimes were so shocking i dont think people will forget... people still remember the moors murders, sarah payne and so forth.

People will remember the crime regardless of whether the perpetrator is dead or not. People didn't forget about Ted Bundy after his execution did they?

walshb

DrumSteve wrote: »

yeah but i cant see these people ever being released(though stranger things have happened). plus the nature of the crimes were so shocking i dont think people will forget... people still remember the moors murders, sarah payne and so forth.

What?

Why? The mother got a definite sentence. She will be released. This is the law.
Owen's also got a definite sentence and he will be released.

Barker is the only one that will possibly never be released if the law is upheld and if
society has any ounce of bloody common sense

DrumSteve

Stark wrote: »

People will remember the crime regardless of whether the perpetrator is dead or not. People didn't forget about Ted Bundy after his execution did they?

yeah to be fair though he was a notorious serial killer who did some seriously ****ed up ****. (not saying that this is the case here)

killing them is always an option... but as a society have we not risen above the death penalty?

El Siglo

Fremen wrote: »

This thread scares the crap out of me.

If you're scared of a thread regarding peoples' 'disdain' to these criminals and how it might upset you, then don't read it! Go away, read something else!

Shows just what a mob is capable of when it really gets going. I think it would make a damn interesting sociological study.

Yes, maybe it does but I don't see anyone acting upon it, do you? Has anyone here gone out and lynched these bastards yet? No, so it's all talk and there's nothing wrong with that, in fact it's perfectly acceptable in circumstances such as this. It might make a good sociological study, but we all know sociology is a fake subject for arts students to take along with economics or geography!;)

We have people supporting torture and violent death as a punishment (burning at the stake?!). Does no one else find that freaky?

I find it worse that you're not as outraged by the actions of these criminals, I mean seriously what do you expect it's a 17 month old child, albeit baby.

I suppose it wouldn't do to remind any of you of the possibility of a miscarriage of justice on your way to the shops to get the firelighters.

Well they were convicted, there was evidence from the scene, testimony etc... proven beyond reasonable doubt, so pray tell where is this 'miscarriage of justice you speak of?

Some posters claim that morality goes out the window in a case like this. I put it to you that rationality goes out the window.

No, morality and rationality doesn't go out the window, in fact it's a very simple argument, it's justice taken in a positivist sense, and in fact it would be grounds to give the death penalty at one stage anyway. The real question which would be asked, would be: is the deaths of three people worth the death of one and in the Case of Spelucian Explorers (Hypothetical Case used in Jurisprudence) it would indeed seem so, and discounting morals etc.. as these tend to skew our perception in favour or against those concerned, it's pretty open and shut, these people promoted the circumstances under which a child died, they were premeditated and calculated, hence a death penalty would be satisfactory. I also sense a lack of understanding of 'rationality' from that post, maybe it's more rational to perform the coup de grâce on these criminals.

Go ahead, flame away.

I do find your post rather inflammatory, disingenuous and overtly self righteous, unless one has experienced or indeed studied such 'people' as these criminals, then one will never understand the damage that they cause and the retribution that should be take place that never really does.

Stark

DrumSteve wrote: »

yeah to be fair though he was a notorious serial killer who did some seriously ****ed up ****. (not saying that this is the case here)

killing them is always an option... but as a society have we not risen above the death penalty?

As a society we're happy to let monsters prey on the weak and vulnerable because taking action offends our cosmopolitan sensibilities. We haven't risen anywhere except up our own asses. The kid is dead because society put the rights of his abusers first.

El Siglo

Stark wrote: »

We haven't risen anywhere except up our own asses.

You mean like this?:D

Kernel

DrumSteve wrote: »

killing them is always an option... but as a society have we not risen above the death penalty?

Meh, the rope is quick, and cheap.

Jimmy Iovine

walshb wrote: »

Barker is the only one that will possibly never be released if the law is upheld and if society has any ounce of bloody common sense

Hopefully this wont happen. What he did was sick. To prey on the defenseless is inexcusable.

Im not sure if this has been asked yet but does anyone out there know why his two sentences are running concurrently. Surely if he committed both crimes at different times then he should be made to serve 22 years and not 12 before he is eligible for parole.

GodSaveTheQueen

how do I thank someone?

Horsefumbler

I probably wont get an answer to this so far into the thread but what exactly did they do to the kid that was so bad? I read that he had a broken back and cracked ribs but what other stuff did they so to him that makes this case stand out so much?

Fremen

El Siglo wrote: »

If you're scared of a thread regarding peoples' 'disdain' to these criminals and how it might upset you, then don't read it! Go away, read something else!

Translation: "If you don't see things my way, p*ss off!"

El Siglo wrote: »

Yes, maybe it does but I don't see anyone acting upon it, do you? Has anyone here gone out and lynched these bastards yet? No, so it's all talk and there's nothing wrong with that, in fact it's perfectly acceptable in circumstances such as this.

I would give very good odds that at least one of the people involved will end up dead on the back of this. If not by suicide, then by vigalantism inside or outside of prison.
The fact that it's "all talk" doesn't make it ok. That "talk" could be considered incitement to violence.

El Siglo wrote: »

I find it worse that you're not as outraged by the actions of these criminals, I mean seriously what do you expect it's a 17 month old child, albeit baby.

I didn't give my opinion on the case, but that doesn't mean I don't have one.

El Siglo wrote: »

Well they were convicted, there was evidence from the scene, testimony etc... proven beyond reasonable doubt, so pray tell where is this 'miscarriage of justice you speak of?

These monsters bombed a pub! They were found guilty and all.

Before anyone jumps down my neck, let me clarify my point. The justice system is fallible, and it's statistically inevitable that sooner or later there will be a miscarriage of justice. I mean that as a general statement, not necessarily related to this case.
If you're going to feed everyone who's convicted of a heinous crime to the dogs, sooner or later you'll feed them an innocent person.

El Siglo wrote: »

No, morality and rationality doesn't go out the window, in fact it's a very simple argument, it's justice taken in a positivist sense, and in fact it would be grounds to give the death penalty at one stage anyway. The real question which would be asked, would be: is the deaths of three people worth the death of one and in the Case of Spelucian Explorers (Hypothetical Case used in Jurisprudence) it would indeed seem so, and discounting morals etc.. as these tend to skew our perception in favour or against those concerned, it's pretty open and shut, these people promoted the circumstances under which a child died, they were premeditated and calculated, hence a death penalty would be satisfactory. I also sense a lack of understanding of 'rationality' from that post, maybe it's more rational to perform the coup de grâce on these criminals.

What I meant by lack of rationality is that we have people who would normally condemn the death penalty shouting for it's application in this case. I take it from your argument you're in favour of the death penalty for all murders?
From some cursory reading, it seems the whole point of the case of the speluncian explorers is to introduce moral ambiguity into a murder case. It's designed as a problem with no clear legal solution.

Otis Driftwood

Horsefumbler wrote: »

I probably wont get an answer to this so far into the thread but what exactly did they do to the kid that was so bad? I read that he had a broken back and cracked ribs but what other stuff did they so to him that makes this case stand out so much?

• Eight broken ribs and a broken back, with another area of bleeding around the spine at neck level.

• Numerous bruises, cuts and abrasions, including a deep tear to his left ear lobe, which had been pulled away from his head.

• Severe lacerations to the top of his head, including a large gouge which could have been caused by a dog bite.

• Blackened finger- and toenails, with several nails missing; the middle finger of his right hand was without a nail and its tip was also missing, as if it had been sliced off.

• A tear to his fraenulum, the strip of skin between the middle of the upper lip and the gum, which had partially healed.

• One of his front teeth had also been knocked out and was found in his colon. He had swallowed it.

These were injuries that were found post mortem.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7708398.stm

Horsefumbler wrote: »

I read that he had a broken back and cracked ribs but what other stuff did they so to him that makes this case stand out so much?

You dont think a broken back and fractured ribs is enough??

FFS.

walshb

Horsefumbler wrote: »

I probably wont get an answer to this so far into the thread but what exactly did they do to the kid that was so bad? I read that he had a broken back and cracked ribs but what other stuff did they so to him that makes this case stand out so much?

Apparently there were 60 separate injuries at least. They tortured the toddler to death.
About as heinous as can get