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DCM Novices / Sub 4:30 Mentored thread

--amadeus--

Greetings, hello and welcome!!!

First things first what I'd like is for everyone who's signed up or been press ganged into this to come in and say hello and give us a little bit of background. Ideally I'd like to know:

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?
How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?
How many days a week can you train?
Why are you running this marathon?

Feel free to say as much or as little as you want - this is the place you can come to brag or to bitch between now and October so start as you mean to go on!

In terms of programs it would be nice if we were all on teh same one (though not vital) and I have a couple of options (if neither suit we can make up our own).

First is teh well know HH Novice schedule. They are excellent plans and teh two levels means that the more experienced runners can follow a slightly more demanding plan. They are proven to work and popular enough that people joining through the year may well be on one. 2 days of proper rest and 1 of cross training also minimises injury risk.

The other option is this. Not as well known but I like it a lot. It has more speedwork to keep the experinced runners interested and also to shake things up and vary it a bit (HH is very one paced, it's all just "running"). It's also very flexible - three sessions that you can do whenever you want in the week - experienced or faster runners can run more sessions on top, if you are injury prone or a triathlete you can cross train. If you are new you can just rest

As I said we don't all have to be on the same program - let me know your preferences when you post.

And remember, this is all about fun!

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Sub430

2 things learned from todays LSR:

1) Don't forget to lock the bezel on the 405, (otherwise you'll spend ages trying to piece together different runs

) knocked it accidentally and didn't notice for a mile.

2) I need to drink more water I think. Drank around 750ml in 2hr20m - defo not enough. Weighed myself before and after and was 2 lbs lighter so going to have to hide more bottles on the long routes.

The run itself was ok until I decided to speed up a bit for miles 12 and 13 - totally wiped me out for the final mile.

There was a heavy sun shower half way through for about 5 minutes - just what the doctor ordered on a warm, sunny day

14.32 miles in 2hr20. Avg 9m46 per mile. Avg HR 154.

osnola ibax

Sub430 wrote: »

2) I need to drink more water I think. Drank around 750ml in 2hr20m - defo not enough. Weighed myself before and after and was 2 lbs lighter so going to have to hide more bottles on the long routes.

same as that, I drank 500 mls on my lsr on Friday and 2 gels, it wasn't enough at all, felt quite dry mouthed and generally dehydrated. I have ordered a nutrition belt but that only holds about 500 mls aswell, so I'll still need to carry a bottle.

Getting fairly serious now though eh? Do do do do dooooo (mcdonalds theme tune)

rainbow kirby

I drank 1.5L and used 2 gels during my half in June (in 2:17), I don't think it'll be possible to even fill up my belt with as much water as I'd want on longer runs!

Think I'll need to plan a long run route that goes past several shops where I can buy water...

Sub430

osnola ivax wrote: »

Getting fairly serious now though eh? Do do do do dooooo (mcdonalds theme tune)

It certainly is, makes the guilt free curry and beers I am about to have all the tastier! Na na na na na naan.:rolleyes:

osnola ibax

Sub430 wrote: »

It certainly is, makes the guilt free curry and beers I am about to have all the tastier! Na na na na na naan.:rolleyes:

Mmmmmmmm curry and beers, naantastic

Mr Marenghi

Had a handy 3miles today.

Funny you guys mention being dehydrated etc, after my 12miler I had a headache that lasted a day, so although I thought I had taken enough water/Lucozade sport, I guess I hadn't ???

Sub430

Mr Marenghi wrote: »

Had a handy 3miles today.

Snap.
Felt fine, legs very tired this morning, back to normal now.

Mr Marenghi

6miles today.

Does anybody else find that when hungover they have a good run ? I dont mean with a headache or sick stomach but today I felt really hungover, tired and just like crap but whenever I'm like this I have a really good run ! - weird

osnola ibax

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|||||
Rainbow|||||
Mr Marenghi|||||
osnola ivax|5|47.8|199.2|shoulda done .8 of a mile more|
oryx|||||
Bally8|||||
Munster_Gal|||||
Goofygirl|||||
Shadyladee|||||
Buck65|||||

osnola ibax

Thrilled with the way things went this week, ran a fast 11 1/2 miler with a mate on Monday, 8:30 min miles, bit of a slog. Ran a 16 mile lsr on Friday 9:30 pace. And to day I did 8 miles at 9:30 pace and managed to keep avg heart rate to 150. Things are progressing nicely.

I'll be tapering this week in preparation for frank duffy, I'm thinking a 3, a 5 and a 3, then it's all guns blazing in Phoenix park, I'm getting excited again in case you couldn't tell.

I've finally settled on a goal for dcm aswell to gear my training towards, I'm going for 3:45, bit ambitious? Maybe but a Roy keane mentality should see me get there, fail to prepare, prepare to fail and all that jazz, didn't prepare do well today keano didya huh huh?

Sub430

Mr Marenghi wrote: »

Does anybody else find that when hungover they have a good run ? I dont mean with a headache or sick stomach but today I felt really hungover, tired and just like crap but whenever I'm like this I have a really good run ! - weird

I had a great 6 miler around the Phoenix Park with a serious whiskey head on me - must be the alcohol raising our pain threshold. Our esteemed leader swears by the demon drink so it must be true

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055601038&highlight=alcohol

rainbow kirby

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|||||
Rainbow|4|18|121.5|First week post-injury|
Mr Marenghi|||||
osnola ivax|5|47.8|199.2|shoulda done .8 of a mile more|
oryx|||||
Bally8|||||
Munster_Gal|||||
Goofygirl|||||
Shadyladee|||||
Buck65|||||

Mr Marenghi

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|||||
Rainbow|4|18|121.5|First week post-injury|
Mr Marenghi|7|27|130|Had a really good week, best i've felt so far in the programmme !|
osnola ivax|5|47.8|199.2|shoulda done .8 of a mile more|
oryx|||||
Bally8|||||
Munster_Gal|||||
Goofygirl|||||
Shadyladee|||||
Buck65|||||

Bally8

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|||||
Rainbow|4|18|121.5|First week post-injury|
Mr Marenghi|7|27|130|Had a really good week, best i've felt so far in the programmme !|
osnola ivax|5|47.8|199.2|shoulda done .8 of a mile more|
oryx|||||
Bally8|5|33|163.1|Cant believe I ran 12 miles!
Munster_Gal|||||
Goofygirl|||||
Shadyladee|||||
Buck65|||||

--amadeus--

Monday | Tuesday|Wedensday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
rest|3 m run|6 m w 2@LT Pace|3 m run|rest|cross|13

(Link to original here)

I'm back! Did you miss me? :P

Sounds like it's been a real mixed bag this week. Like I said a few weeks ago there does come a point where it all seems to get a bit much and you all seem to have hit that to varying degrees. The unpleasant truth is that for a lot of people that feeling can come and go right the way to the race itself. The only real cure is to focus on the good training done to date and the idea of the race itself. And since we're already at week 8 of an 18 week program we are almost half way there already :eek:

And by now you have probably started to realise teh truth that all marathon runners understand. The 26.2 miles themselves are actually preety easy. The hardest part of any marathon is actually getting to the start line, especially for teh first time. Getting the nerve to commit to a marathon, getting a training plan sorted, having the motivation and commitment to stick to 18 weeks of hard training and teh luck to stay injury free... All teh odds are generally stacked against a 1st marathon. I would guess that maybe 1 in 10 who say "I want to do a marathon" actually start a plan and of those who start maybe only 5 in 10 actually get to the start line of thier chosen race. But virtually everyone who starts a first marathon finishes it... Look at even our small group - Arcee has gone, Triangle has gone, abi2007 has gone. They may not have dropped out of training - just from here but it illustrates the point.

However most people training have an "epiphany" moment. You're running along, lost in a dream world and arrive home. And then do a double take. Maybe it's the time you ran, or your pace. Maybe it's your HR or the fact you forgot to take a walk break. But something - soon - will click and you'll realise just how fit you've become.

And tehn you'll realise how easy this all is

Bally8

Very happy with todays lsr and my decision to stop pushing for a time I know I'm not ready for.

One slightly sensitive problem Ive been having is the need to pee during my runs. Today for example I went about 3 times before I left the house but still felt like I was bursting and had to struggle on for nearly 2 hours!! Torture. Does this happen to anyone else? Will I have to resort to jumping a hedge and going in a field?

:o Eek cant imagine doing that!

Bally8

Oh my god how embarrassing- I posted about peeing at the same time as our WISE ONE was posting some very profound advice for us all. I feel like I was caught out being bold!:D

osnola ibax

Welcome back amadeus,

I think those of us who are still there are truly committed now, hence the long runs and the big miles this week. There is no going back now. I am so excited again, I can't wait for the big day. Fingers crossed.

Sub430

Bally8 wrote: »

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|5|32|167|My longest run ever this week by 2 odd miles|
Rainbow|4|18|121.5|First week post-injury|
Mr Marenghi|7|27|130|Had a really good week, best i've felt so far in the programmme !|
osnola ivax|5|47.8|199.2|shoulda done .8 of a mile more|
oryx|||||
Bally8|5|33|163.1|Cant believe I ran 12 miles!
Munster_Gal|||||
Goofygirl|||||
Shadyladee|||||
Buck65|||||

Good running all. Go team!

OI - I hope you're just thinking of running 3:45 dead, anything less and you'll be one of the other lot

rainbow kirby

I just hope that my knee decides to behave itself for the next while, I really can't afford another injury - both in terms of time and money! :eek:

Just wondering how the 10 mile race in the park this weekend fits in... it's a little awkward with the timing!

Shadyladee

Bally8,

Have you considered trying to run a loop past your house on your long runs, then you can get some water and a pit stop if neccessary??

buck65

QUOTE=Shadyladee;61532446]Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|5|33|168|My longest run ever this week by 2 odd miles|
Rainbow|4|18|121.5|First week post-injury|
Mr Marenghi|7|27|130|Had a really good week, best i've felt so far in the programmme !|
osnola ivax|5|47.8|199.2|shoulda done .8 of a mile more|
oryx|||||
Bally8|5|33|163.1|Cant believe I ran 12 miles!
Munster_Gal|||||
Goofygirl|||||
Shadyladee|4|24|129.5|Better than last week, but still a little tough going|
Buck65|2|16|160ish|rest week|
[/QUOTE

Just a quick question relating to the Boss' post. What happens if you get the flu the week of the marathon or a small injury that keeps you out of running? Is there a back up marathon anywhere in Ireland in November? Would be disappointing to have done all the training and end up missing a chance to run a marathon.

--amadeus--

Not much wise or boss like about this one...

On teh Peeing thing - there are two things to consider.

First is that it may all be psychological. I used to know someone in London who would get off teh bus by her flat and would almost straight away say "glad I'm near home, I need teh bathroom". As she walked closer the need got more urgent until by the time she got to her front door she was virtually running and breaking it down to get in. I pointed out it was all in her head (which went down really well!) but it was - her body knew there was a toilet close so it sent a signal to empty her bladder. And so getting off the bus and walking up that road became linked with peeing. And over time the association got stronger - pavlovian - until it was almost overwhelming.

Running can be teh same - I used to be like that as well, I'd start out and think I needed to pee but I ignored it and it eventually it went away. If you run (for example) a 20 minute loop and pee at the end of it you are basically training your body to pee 20 mins into the run. So if you need to or not you'll feel like you need to - it becomes part of your routine. And of course it's le an itch - as soon as you thnk about needing to pee you can't think about anything else.

The other question is if you are over-hydrating. I saw a few posts a couple of pages ago about teh amounts that people take and drink and you really would be surprised at how little you need in reality. If you are peeing clear liquid before a run then you are fully hydrated and extra fluid is pointless. We all get teh dangers of dehydration drummed into us so we're paranoid but studies show that just sipping as you feel you need to provides adequate rehydration with no performance loss (ie you will dehydrate but not enough to slow you down). You're going to be running 26.2 miles - you cannot expect to end it fully hydrated or teh same weight as when you started. the aim is to stay hydrated enough to maintain performance, attempting to maintain full hydration you could consume more fluid than you can absorb. Fluid absorption through teh stomach and intestines slows down dramatically as you run and if you force fluids in you'll end up with them just sloshing around in your gut (not nice).

You should also be aware of Hyponatremia and how it impacts marathon runners. Noakes claims that over hydration is a much bigger risk for slower / heavier runners in endurance events than dehydration (he goes on quite a rant about it) and so do be careful about drinking too much, especially just water. Personally I rarely carry more than 500mls with me and last week I ran 20 miles carrying 500mls of sports drink and ended up taking half of it home with me.

Do make sure you rehydrate properly after exercise though as it will aid recovery and - as always - everyone is different.

Sub430

Thanks for that amadeus.

I brought a camelbak (750ml) on the run and didn't feel too thirsty on the run itself. I was however surprised how much was left at the end of the run (about 300ml I would guess). I was worried that I wasn't drinking enough (and looking for something to blame for my tiredness near the end

) but as you say if you're adequately hydrated (which I was) before the run then there's nothing to worry about.

shels4ever

Sub430 wrote: »

Thanks for that amadeus.

I brought a camelbak (750ml) on the run and didn't feel too thirsty on the run itself. I was however surprised how much was left at the end of the run (about 300ml I would guess). I was worried that I wasn't drinking enough (and looking for something to blame for my tiredness near the end ) but as you say if you're adequately hydrated (which I was) before the run then there's nothing to worry about.

Just been having a read of some of your runs here Sub430 , Is your target still to go sub 4:30? If thats the case your going well , I noticed that your long run pace was around the 9:40 mark for 16 miles maybe a little too quick and might account for some for the tiredness , I would have though the the long run pace should be slower then 10 min/mile if looking for sub 4:30. Hope i'm not stepping on toes here

Sub430

Thanks Shels. The target is still to finish under 430 but there may be some delusions of a sub 415 hence the quicker than 10m mile pace for the long runs. With a fair whack of the training still to go, I'm not mentioning any other time other than sub 430 though...oh.

shels4ever

Sub430 wrote: »

Thanks Shels. The target is still to finish under 430 but there may be some delusions of a sub 415 hence the quicker than 10m mile pace for the long runs. With a fair whack of the training still to go, I'm not mentioning any other time other than sub 430 though...oh.

Great your well on track then, with your 9:40'ish pace that basically 4:15 pace . For your longer runs you man need to start a little slower but keep up the good work:) . My long runs were @9:45 -10 min mile pace when planning to go sub 4.

goofygirl

Name|Sessions Completed|Total Miles This week|Total miles Overall | Comments
Sub430|5|33|168|My longest run ever this week by 2 odd miles|
Rainbow|4|18|121.5|First week post-injury|
Mr Marenghi|7|27|130|Had a really good week, best i've felt so far in the programmme !|
osnola ivax|5|47.8|199.2|shoulda done .8 of a mile more|
oryx|||||
Bally8|5|33|163.1|Cant believe I ran 12 miles!
Munster_Gal|||||
Goofygirl|4|28|152|12 miler not as daunting as feared|
Shadyladee|4|24|129.5|Better than last week, but still a little tough going|
Buck65|2|16|160ish|rest week|

Hello everyone! So start of Week 8, eh? Time flies when you're having fun...12 miler went grand, took it nice and handy, carried a 500ml bottle of water round with me and had a vanilla power bar gel at around the Mile 8 or 9 mark. Ended up averaging out at 10:30 pace. Slow and steady, innit, slow and steady. Legs feel fine afterwards, passed out on the sofa for a few hours afterwards though. Running a half-marathon next weekend which is good to have something to look forward to before DCM. Not going to be trying to set any records in the half, just want to keep it nice and steady.

goofygirl

I have also discovered the optimal pre-run breakfast. Wholemeal toast with PB, jam and sliced banana. Mmmmm.