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Solidarity with the Workers in Element Six

No. 11

What De Beers are trying to get away with is outrageous. A loyal workforce which has made them billions in profits over the years are being discarded, without a thought, in the middle of the greatest jobs crisis since the 1930s, with only a pittance to tide them over. Workers are entitled to ask where have all the billions gone? Surely they deserve more than this spit in the face?

Workers will be meeting with management today, it's important that they know that people from right around the Midwest and Ireland are behind them. If a profitable, cash rich company like De Beers are allowed to get away with chucking their workers onto the dole with less than a week's wages to survive on, then that will become the new standard that all employers will start from when laying off workers. This affects us all, especially in a region as hard hit by job losses as the Midwest.

Below is the text of a leaflet which was distributed at Element Six yesterday by the Socialist Party. There is a palpable anger among workers and the leaflet was well received.

If anyone knows anyone working there or indeed if you work there yourself, feel free to pass on this message of support.

Socialist Party Solidarity Statement

Time to take a stand against Element Six’s Greed

The Socialist Party, and our MEP Joe Higgins, would like to express our solidarity with the workers in Element Six in your fight against the company’s job massacre and insulting redundancy deal. A strong stand must be taken against this vicious greed.

Element Six/De Beers’ plan to shut the plant and move production elsewhere is a disgusting stab in the back of the workers whose hard work has made them billions in profits over the years. After huge sacrifices, including working part time on the promise that this would save jobs, the company now want to pack up and jump ship, with only a pittance of a redundancy. The entire cost of the redundancy scheme to the company is only €6.6m, about one week’s turnover for the factory, according to the Irish Independent!

Fight for jobs needed
These actions are motivated purely by greed. De Beers is a profitable company, making $3 million in the last year. The order books for many Element Six products are full. But they want more profit and don’t care if livelihoods have to be laid waste in the process. They plan to throw hundreds of workers on the dole, in order to move elsewhere to pay slave wages of around €3 an hour.

With over 400,000 on the live register, and predictions that this will raise to 600,000 next year, if jobs at Element Six are lost, will all the workers be able to find other employment? The answer is no. The mid west in particular faces a long term crisis of unemployment, flowing partly from the thousands of jobs lost at Dell. In this climate, job losses mean many workers face long term or even permanent unemployment. For some, there is no guarantee that they will work again. Just so Element Six can make more profits, workers face struggling with mortgages and loans, while living on a dole which faces cuts.

If they get away with this, more companies in the region and around the country will follow suit. If these jobs are let go they will not come back. There will be a legacy of unemployment in the region into the future. This is why as well as fighting for better redundancy; workers need to fight to save the jobs.

Action and occupation can get results
A strong fight, reaching out to workers across the region and the country, can put a stop to the company’s plans. Element Six must be forced to open up its books, and show where the profits from the last 40 years have gone. The workers should demand that these profits are reinvested to safeguard jobs, and provide a decent redundancy package for those who want it.

The company will attempt to tie workers up in endless negotiations, and hope to deflate the anger and mood for action, in order to be able to sneak out the back door. Workers should not let this happen. In reality, it is the level of organisation of the workers on the ground, and their willingness to take firm action that will wring concessions out of management. As the recent electrician’s strike shows – strong industrial action, not endless talks, gets results. In particular a struggle to save jobs would get huge support from ordinary people throughout the region and indeed the whole country, but even if it comes to redundancies, taking action can drastically improve redundancy terms.

Recently workers in Visteon (Ford) in Belfast, and Waterford Crystal occupied their factories and successfully won better redundancy payments. Element Six workers should consider building on the sit-in protest of February; to this time establish a complete occupation of the factory. This would ensure the company remove no equipment, materials or finished products, and give the workers a real bargaining chip.

Demand the Government Act
The government cannot be allowed to sit idly by as jobs are axed, unemployment rises and factories gather dust. Element Six workers should organise to put pressure on the government to take action to stop the jobs massacre, and to actively create jobs. This is a vulnerable government, facing a referendum and elections. A strong campaign which reaches out and involves workers across the entire region in mass protests etc., could force them to act.

If De Beers are not willing to safeguard jobs, then the factory and resources should be taken into democratic public ownership. If the government can spend billions bailing out corrupt bankers, then there is no reason why they cannot come up with the initial investment for research and development, and whatever retraining and retooling is needed, to safeguard these jobs, or immediately provide alternative employment. The one thing that is both unviable and unthinkable is to allow any more jobs to disappear.

Support from the Socialist Party
The Socialist Party, and our MEP, Joe Higgins, have a record of assisting workers in fighting for their rights. For example we worked with workers in Waterford Crystal, Visteon and GAMA Construction, who stood up and won major concessions from their employers. We think workers in Element Six should discuss these examples, and ensure that the best fighting strategy is used in your struggle. We would like to help in whatever way we can in those discussions and that fight.

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Dr Kamikazi

I have every sympathy with the workers of E6.
I myself find myself in a shaky job, with dubious future prospects and a mortgage to pay.
But if I was running a business and found out that one location is by far the most expensive, I would set about finding an alternate location.
The government, workers, unions, resellers, and anyone else involved in business have contributed to making Ireland THE MOST EXPENSIVE PLACE IN EUROPE TO DO BUSINESS IN.
Everyone has said "if he gets a bigger slice, I want a bigger slice".
We have priced ourselves out of the market, firms have been fleeing the country for years, but we chose to ignore this fact.
"Sure, it'll go on forever, can I have some more please?"
In many other countries in Europe (that incidentally have better healthcare, public transport, roads, leisure facilities, sports parks, etc, etc, etc...) people take home far less.
Ireland now has vast ghost estates to show for the last 10-12 year of unprecedented boom and not much else.
The Irish way of doing business is dead and gone, we must adapt and change to survive.
Ryanair being a good example.
And an even better one for the fact they're growing Europe wide, except in this rainy little isle.
Because people here out of sheer stubbornness would rather go down with the ship than say "he's an obnoxious little b*llix, but he's right"

asmobhosca

First off I'd like to say I have huge sympathy for the element 6 workers, two close friends are employees there.

However I also find myself agreeing wholeheartedly with Dr Kamikazi's post above.
The problem for element 6 managment is, that if the chooses not to move to a lower cost base facility then surely their competitors will, putting element 6 at a competitive disadvantage and larger cost base reletive to competitors.
Its similar to what happened with Dell moving to Poland.

As for the Socialist party's suggestion that the state should invest in the company (citing the banking bailout), then the next company that runs into trouble will want the same type of investment setting a precedent that could see the state being invoved in sectors of business it knows nothing about and has no business in. This is not the answer either and smacks of political posturing.

But I really hope some solution to save at least some of the jobs is found.

No. 11

The point that needs to be stressed here is that workers are not responsible for any decline in competitiveness. Unless people are intending to survive on a bowl of rice a day, there's no way we can compete with the super-exploited workforces in the East and industrial serfs in the Far-East; and any suggestion that we should do ought to be resisted forcefully.

Workers were not the culprits responsible for the property or credit bubbles, we were the victims. Between 2000 and 2008 consumer prices in Ireland rose nearly twice as much as they did in the Eurozone and nearly two and a half times that of Britain's. According to the OECD, when cost of living is taken into account, Ireland's average wage is 40% below the British average. Inflation, fuelled by greed and speculation, killed Irish competitiveness - NOT workers.

And how low would you suggest we go anyway? Workers in Element Six were working overtime on effectively half-pay for the past five months to get the orders out and yet management still claim that Ireland is a "high-cost environment". Well of course it bloody is! Ken O'Sullivan admitted they can pay workers in South Africa €3 an hour as compared to the €15 average over here. You try competing with that and pay back a €300,000 mortgage at the same time!

It's appalling to see the average punter now being told to pay for a crisis by those very people who caused it. The speculators, bankers and developers have walked away with their billions secured and guaranteed by their accomplices in government, while workers have emerged from the Celtic Tiger mired in debt and shackled to 40 year mortgages. Yet still, somehow, we're to blame.

And for the record asmobhosca, the Socialist Party aren't advocating that the government invest in the company, we propose that the government bail out the workers by nationalising the factory under democratic workers control instead of deepening the downturn by allowing yet more people be forced to sign on to the dole. Every job cut costs the exchequer €20,000 in lost income tax and extra welfare spending, undermines consumer spending in the real economy which further jeopardises jobs, and just serves to fuel the whole downward spiral.

Enough's enough. Those least able to pay are being made to bear the entire burden of the recession. Let those who made the fortunes during the good times contribute now by taking the hit to their profit margins and allow those who created their wealth, like the workers in Element Six and Dell, get through this depression with their living standards intact. If the bosses refuse then workers are entitled to demand that the government act in their interest and move to secure their standard of living by safeguarding their jobs.

Dr Kamikazi

It is very difficult to say who's to blame for our current predicament.

Was it the politicians, who where looking away as the economy spun out of control and decided the state needs a slice of the pie and put huge stamp duty and VAT on property?

Was it the speculators, who where borrowing as much as they could possibly get, even though they where already building ghost estates?

Was it the banks, who where only to happy pumping more and more money into a rampant runaway boom, that could only collapse?

Was it the unions, who (as is their job), demanded higher and higher wages?

Was it the retailers, who saw a lot of money out there and jacked up their prices far beyond what anyone else across Europe was charging?

Was it the average Joe, who saw that everything was at least 30% overpriced and said "nevermind, I'll have one of that, one of that, one of that, one of that..."

As it stands now, nothing positive is being done, everyone is just pointing the finger at everyone else and shouting a lot.
Here's a bit of news for you. When a ship gets hit, it's going to go down with every man on board.
Shouting, pointing fingers and blaming others will see you to the sea bed.
Positive action and pulling together, might just save you.
The sea doesn't care that the poor bloke shovelling coal into the boilers wasn't to blame the ship hit an iceberg. It will take him anyway.

Dr Kamikazi

But having said that, it is of course painfully obvious that a very select few, by handing over brown envelopes to the right politicians, have made an obscene amount of money.
And once the pigs where done sticking their snout in the trough, they kicked it over to make sure no one else would get any.
Because it is not good enough to make a killing for yourself, you must also make sure to kick the ladder away from under you.
But while these "respectable" people did indeed, through dubious methods, helped by the thieves and criminals in FF, make obscene profits at the expense of other, they did not singlehandedly cause this situation to come about.
It's an extremely complex situation, you will never find a single group of people who are to blame and even then ,what good will it do?
It's been done before, the tribunals will cost hundreds of millions, make some legal people very rich and achieve exactly nothing.

[Deleted User]

Welcome to Capitalism..

No. 11

Dr Kamikazi wrote: »

Positive action and pulling together, might just save you.

I agree. The pensioners and electricians have shown that by taking a stand victories can be secured.

Likewise the improved redundancies at Waterford Crystal and Visteon in Belfast are evidence that by pulling together workers can gain major concessions. Fact is, unless workers have some leverage, some degree of bargaining power, they remain on the periphery. Workers will only be heard above the din of the bankers and developers mooching if they stand up and take action to defend their interests.

mikemac

No. 11 wrote: »

If a profitable, cash rich company like De Beers are allowed to get away with chucking their workers onto the dole with less than a week's wages to survive on,

How much is the redundancy package? How many weeks per years service?

No. 11

mikemac wrote: »

How much is the redundancy package? How many weeks per years service?

0.68 weeks.

ABEasy

No. 11 wrote: »

0.68 weeks.

They legally have to give 2 wks per year so i'm assuming they are giving 2.68 weeks per year which is above their legal requirements

No. 11

ABEasy wrote: »

They legally have to give 2 wks per year so i'm assuming they are giving 2.68 weeks per year which is above their legal requirements

Yes, and employers are entitled to claim back 60% of that legal statutory redundancy payment from the state. Which means of course that you and me are paying half the workers redundancy for a profitable multinational like De Beers, a multinational that has made billions from its operations in Ireland.

Obscene.

ABEasy

No. 11 wrote: »

Yes, and employers are entitled to claim back 60% of that legal statutory redundancy payment from the state. Which means of course that you and me are paying half the workers redundancy for a profitable multinational like De Beers, a multinational that has made billions from its operations in Ireland.

Obscene.

Are business's not ment to make profits? Were the employees not paid a good wage when the company was making these profits??... The rebate is funded from the PRSI contributions made during the employees lifetime of which the employers pay 10.75% in addition to the employees gross salary, so no we are not paying it the company and the employees have already paid for it...

fergusman

No. 11 wrote: »

What De Beers are trying to get away with is outrageous. A loyal workforce which has made them billions in profits over the years are being discarded, without a thought, in the middle of the greatest jobs crisis since the 1930s, with only a pittance to tide them over. Workers are entitled to ask where have all the billions gone? Surely they deserve more than this spit in the face?

Workers will be meeting with management today, it's important that they know that people from right around the Midwest and Ireland are behind them. If a profitable, cash rich company like De Beers are allowed to get away with chucking their workers onto the dole with less than a week's wages to survive on, then that will become the new standard that all employers will start from when laying off workers. This affects us all, especially in a region as hard hit by job losses as the Midwest.

Below is the text of a leaflet which was distributed at Element Six yesterday by the Socialist Party. There is a palpable anger among workers and the leaflet was well received.

If anyone knows anyone working there or indeed if you work there yourself, feel free to pass on this message of support.

Socialist Party Solidarity Statement

Time to take a stand against Element Six’s Greed

The Socialist Party, and our MEP Joe Higgins, would like to express our solidarity with the workers in Element Six in your fight against the company’s job massacre and insulting redundancy deal. A strong stand must be taken against this vicious greed.

Element Six/De Beers’ plan to shut the plant and move production elsewhere is a disgusting stab in the back of the workers whose hard work has made them billions in profits over the years. After huge sacrifices, including working part time on the promise that this would save jobs, the company now want to pack up and jump ship, with only a pittance of a redundancy. The entire cost of the redundancy scheme to the company is only €6.6m, about one week’s turnover for the factory, according to the Irish Independent!

Fight for jobs needed
These actions are motivated purely by greed. De Beers is a profitable company, making $3 million in the last year. The order books for many Element Six products are full. But they want more profit and don’t care if livelihoods have to be laid waste in the process. They plan to throw hundreds of workers on the dole, in order to move elsewhere to pay slave wages of around €3 an hour.

With over 400,000 on the live register, and predictions that this will raise to 600,000 next year, if jobs at Element Six are lost, will all the workers be able to find other employment? The answer is no. The mid west in particular faces a long term crisis of unemployment, flowing partly from the thousands of jobs lost at Dell. In this climate, job losses mean many workers face long term or even permanent unemployment. For some, there is no guarantee that they will work again. Just so Element Six can make more profits, workers face struggling with mortgages and loans, while living on a dole which faces cuts.

If they get away with this, more companies in the region and around the country will follow suit. If these jobs are let go they will not come back. There will be a legacy of unemployment in the region into the future. This is why as well as fighting for better redundancy; workers need to fight to save the jobs.

Action and occupation can get results
A strong fight, reaching out to workers across the region and the country, can put a stop to the company’s plans. Element Six must be forced to open up its books, and show where the profits from the last 40 years have gone. The workers should demand that these profits are reinvested to safeguard jobs, and provide a decent redundancy package for those who want it.

The company will attempt to tie workers up in endless negotiations, and hope to deflate the anger and mood for action, in order to be able to sneak out the back door. Workers should not let this happen. In reality, it is the level of organisation of the workers on the ground, and their willingness to take firm action that will wring concessions out of management. As the recent electrician’s strike shows – strong industrial action, not endless talks, gets results. In particular a struggle to save jobs would get huge support from ordinary people throughout the region and indeed the whole country, but even if it comes to redundancies, taking action can drastically improve redundancy terms.

Recently workers in Visteon (Ford) in Belfast, and Waterford Crystal occupied their factories and successfully won better redundancy payments. Element Six workers should consider building on the sit-in protest of February; to this time establish a complete occupation of the factory. This would ensure the company remove no equipment, materials or finished products, and give the workers a real bargaining chip.

Demand the Government Act
The government cannot be allowed to sit idly by as jobs are axed, unemployment rises and factories gather dust. Element Six workers should organise to put pressure on the government to take action to stop the jobs massacre, and to actively create jobs. This is a vulnerable government, facing a referendum and elections. A strong campaign which reaches out and involves workers across the entire region in mass protests etc., could force them to act.

If De Beers are not willing to safeguard jobs, then the factory and resources should be taken into democratic public ownership. If the government can spend billions bailing out corrupt bankers, then there is no reason why they cannot come up with the initial investment for research and development, and whatever retraining and retooling is needed, to safeguard these jobs, or immediately provide alternative employment. The one thing that is both unviable and unthinkable is to allow any more jobs to disappear.

Support from the Socialist Party
The Socialist Party, and our MEP, Joe Higgins, have a record of assisting workers in fighting for their rights. For example we worked with workers in Waterford Crystal, Visteon and GAMA Construction, who stood up and won major concessions from their employers. We think workers in Element Six should discuss these examples, and ensure that the best fighting strategy is used in your struggle. We would like to help in whatever way we can in those discussions and that fight.

What a pile of communist drivel but what else to expect from the Socialist party.

In your posts so far you have been dishonest about the level of redundancy offered,
have advocated the nationalisation of a private company that the state has no business running (they aint exactly doing a good job with the bamks, education, health etc.)
You then completely contradicted yourself in your response to asmobhosca above.
Best of all you are advocating that the workers "occupy" the facility a la Thomas Cook, something which is totally illegal under Irish Law.

The only impressive thing about your party is its ability to jump on bandwagons, you really give SF a run for their money

God help us if your lot ever get anywhere near any power in this country

drunken_munky52

Plans to save a significant number of jobs at Element Six go before senior company officials in London today.

Management at the Shannon Industrial Diamond Manufacturer were given a week to come up with a viable alternative to the axing of 370 jobs in the Mid West.

They have travelled to meet with senior officals from the Element Six Group today and are confident that some of the workers can avoid the dole queues under the plan to sustain operations at Shannon at a lower cost.

Dr Kamikazi

Hopefully all goes well, best wishes and good luck!

Flan45

I agree. The pensioners and electricians have shown that by taking a stand victories can be secured.

What victories would they be? The pensioners possibly but the electricians. I fail to see how securing a pay rise when half the industry is unemployed is a victory.

No. 11

fergusman wrote: »

In your posts so far you have been dishonest about the level of redundancy offered

Rubbish. The workers in Element Six have been offered 0.68 weeks per years service.

fergusman wrote: »

have advocated the nationalisation of a private company that the state has no business running

Never said the state should run it. The workers should run it, just like they do today. But the state can provide the capital investment necessary to maintain all the jobs.

fergusman wrote: »

You then completely contradicted yourself in your response to asmobhosca above.

What?

fergusman wrote: »

Best of all you are advocating that the workers "occupy" the facility a la Thomas Cook, something which is totally illegal under Irish Law.

Absolutely and unapologetically. And it works. The Thomas Cook workers courageous action forced their management back to the negotiating table. Had they done nothing they'd have got nothing. Simple as.

fergusman wrote: »

The only impressive thing about your party is its ability to jump on bandwagons, you really give SF a run for their money

Don't know where you could have gotten that impression. On the contrary, defending workers and workers' rights is the only wagon in town for us.

Flan45 wrote: »

What victories would they be? The pensioners possibly but the electricians. I fail to see how securing a pay rise when half the industry is unemployed is a victory.

It wasn't a pay rise, it was money due to them since April of last year that the contractors had budgeted for but refused to pay. Had the likes of Tom Parlon had had their way, first year electrical apprentices would have had to survive on €5.60 per hour!

It was also an immense victory in the sense that it secured the future of the Registered Employers Agreements. These are legally binding agreements that regulate pay in industries as diverse as electrical works to fast food workers and cleaners. The only thing that stands between these most vulnerable workers and poverty wages are the REAs. If IBEC/CIF/ECA had succeeded in breaking the electricians they would have succeeded in undermining the REAs and the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of low-paid Irish workers.

ABEasy

Do you actually believe the rubbish you spout???

No. 11 wrote: »

Rubbish. The workers in Element Six have been offered 0.68 weeks per years service.

No they are getting 2.68 weeks. FACT

No. 11 wrote: »

Never said the state should run it. The workers should run it, just like they do today. But the state can provide the capital investment necessary to maintain all the jobs.

You think that Ireland would be more or as competitive on an international maket as Element Six when they open their plant in S.Africia. Given that they are closing Shannon because of the cost base. How would this be a viable business without cutting costs.

No. 11 wrote: »

Absolutely and unapologetically. And it works. The Thomas Cook workers courageous action forced their management back to the negotiating table. Had they done nothing they'd have got nothing. Simple as.

Now they have been arrested and don't have a hope in hell that another employer in their right mind would employ them.... for what, MAYBE another weeks redundency....

No. 11 wrote: »

It wasn't a pay rise, it was money due to them since April of last year that the contractors had budgeted for but refused to pay. Had the likes of Tom Parlon had had their way, first year electrical apprentices would have had to survive on €5.60 per hour!

And what is wrong with paying an unqualified, untrained, unexperienced lad €5.60 per hour whilst you dedicate your resourses and senior staff to training him.

No. 11 wrote: »

It was also an immense victory in the sense that it secured the future of the Registered Employers Agreements. These are legally binding agreements that regulate pay in industries as diverse as electrical works to fast food workers and cleaners. The only thing that stands between these most vulnerable workers and poverty wages are the REAs. If IBEC/CIF/ECA had succeeded in breaking the electricians they would have succeeded in undermining the REAs and the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of low-paid Irish workers.

My understanding is that the agreement hasn't been ratified by all employers so the REA's are not safe yet. Ask the actual electricans would they want the payrise or job security...

No. 11

ABEasy wrote: »

No they are getting 2.68 weeks. FACT

Two of which are statutory. FACT.

ABEasy wrote: »

You think that Ireland would be more or as competitive on an international maket as Element Six when they open their plant in S.Africia. Given that they are closing Shannon because of the cost base. How would this be a viable business without cutting costs.

I think you should take the time to talk to some of the actual workers. E6 cannot simply move production from Shannon to South Africa, not without suffering catastrophic downtime for retooling and retraining. The Shannon plant is extremely specialised and extremely productive.

ABEasy wrote: »

My understanding is that the agreement hasn't been ratified by all employers so the REA's are not safe yet. Ask the actual electricans would they want the payrise or job security...

Have you ever actually tried paying for a loaf of bread with "job security"?

ABEasy

No. 11 wrote: »

Two of which are statutory. FACT.

Yes, so you agree they are getting 2.68 NOT .68 as you previously stated. Also statutory redundency is capped at €600 per week, redundency offered by E6 is not capped so the 2 weeks are above the statutory.

No. 11 wrote: »

I think you should take the time to talk to some of the actual workers. E6 cannot simply move production from Shannon to South Africa, not without suffering catastrophic downtime for retooling and retraining. The Shannon plant is extremely specialised and extremely productive.

Do you honestly think E6, a successful multi-national company, did not consider the cost of shifting production??? What does it say to you that they are willing to shift production even though they will suffer

No. 11 wrote: »

catastrophic downtime for retooling and retraining

. Also you didn't answer my question do you believe the employees/state would run this company at a profit, given they have no customers, no suppliers and are competing against an established firm like E6.

No. 11 wrote: »

Have you ever actually tried paying for a loaf of bread with "job security"?

Have you actually talked to any electricans? You'd be able to buy more loafs of bread when in a job rather than on the dole.

Dr Kamikazi

It's all very simple.
Ireland (and Europe) to expensive.
Companies run screaming to the hills (or China)
All the chestbeating, striking, moaning, complaining, chaining yourself to gates, occupying branches, whinging, more moaning, more complaining, screaming "it's not our fault!", demanding more money, and all the usual sh*te I've witnessed across several countries over the last 20 years will result in:
Your ass in the dole queue. FACT!

avenged7fold

Just to set the record straight regarding what e6 is offering to its employees. The original redundancy offer from the company was .68 of a week per year of service worked, capped at 2.5 years. The additional 2 weeks is statutory which is capped at €600 per week but has nothing to do with the e6 cap. The new offer from the company is 2.5 weeks capped at 1 year & obviously the 2 weeks statutory is still the same. The improved package arises from 163 less people being made redundant & the savings made from not having to move all the machines overseas. There has been more than a half dozen redundancy packages over the last 30 years in e6 & the package for each one of those redundancies amounted to 6 weeks per year of service, capped at 2.5 years of service plus statutory. This might help explain why e6 employees are a tad disappointed with what is currently being offered by the company. If some people wish to say are'nt they lucky to be getting anything, well that is their perogative.

irishturkey

How about this for a story... General Manager of E6 in Shannon, Ken Sullivan, was today promoted to the board of directors. So we all get stabbed in the back and this git gets promoted.

On the plus side, Clinton Dickerson, group manager for something or other today tendered his resignation citing mismanagement of the Shannon plant and the treatment of employees who have been loyal for years. Also, some senior managers have sent a jointly signed email to CEO Cyrus Jilla again complaining about the treatment of employees in Shannon.

GerardKeating

No. 11 wrote: »

Two of which are statutory. FACT.

So when you said ".68 FACT", you know you were being misleading...

clarecoco

Originally Posted by No. 11

Absolutely and unapologetically. And it works. The Thomas Cook workers courageous action forced their management back to the negotiating table. Had they done nothing they'd have got nothing. Simple as.

Just to clarify something from the Thomas Cook dispute over the redundancy package which the 60 staff got after the office sit in. All the papers reported the deal accepted and agreed at the Labour Relations Commission las week.

The deal provides for five weeks' wages for every year of service, as well as an ex gratia payment based on the length of time each worker was employed by the travel agency.

The initial offer was five weeks' pay for each year of service and one month's salary. The union was seeking a deal that included eight weeks' pay for each year of service.

Thomas Cook's chief executive of mainstream travel Pete Constanti, said the amount of money that was to be paid out to its former staff remained the same as what had initially been offered prior to the action.

What did they gain?
How employable are they now with the experience of taking over an office on their CV?

No. 11

ABEasy wrote: »

Yes, so you agree they are getting 2.68 NOT .68 as you previously stated. Also statutory redundency is capped at €600 per week, redundency offered by E6 is not capped so the 2 weeks are above the statutory.

If you were aware of the average wage inside in E6 you'd understand why capping the payment is unnecessary. It certainly wasn't done out of the goodness of their hearts, the rest of the package shows that if Ken O'Sullivan et al thought they'd get away with it they'd do it.

ABEasy wrote: »

Do you honestly think E6, a successful multi-national company, did not consider the cost of shifting production??? What does it say to you that they are willing to shift production even though they will suffer . Also you didn't answer my question do you believe the employees/state would run this company at a profit, given they have no customers, no suppliers and are competing against an established firm like E6.

The point is they aren't moving isn't it?

To announce that all jobs are going with no hope of reprieve, with all the anguish that would entail, only to turn around a week later with a "rescue package" that offers a supposed reprieve betrays either gross incompetence on behalf of management or suggests a premeditated manoeuvre. As Irish Turkey has said, there is plenty to suggest that it is the latter.

GerardKeating wrote: »

So when you said ".68 FACT", you know you were being misleading...

I'm sorry but I'm not in the habit of congratulating fabulously wealthy multinationals for offering their loyal and productive workers the very bare legal minimum. Those workers that De Beers are intending to discard face a bleak future of long term, even permanent unemployment. 0.68 on top of statutory is outrageous and shouldn't be glossed over. The fact is that De Beers can well afford their standard 6 week redundancy, local management have themselves said that E6 remains "a reliable supplier with a sustainable future."

And now this new "improved" offer is a spit in the face after the stab in the back. By reducing the cap from 2.5 years to just the 1 De Beers are screwing over their longest serving workers, the workers who built that company into what it is today.

clarecoco wrote: »

What did they gain?
How employable are they now with the experience of taking over an office on their CV?

They received an improved ex gratia payment on top of the 3 weeks plus statutory. They would have got nothing if they had walked away with their tails between their legs, as some here would have suggested they do.

Best wishes and solidarity to all the workers and their families in E6 as they face down Cyrus Jilla and his cronies.

clarecoco

In relation to the Thomas Cook workers they appear to have got the exact same as was being given prior to the dispute. The only difference seems to be that one portion is now called an "ex gratia payment" instead of "one month's salary".

Evening Herald Mon Aug 24 2009.
Thomas Cook and its workers' union are in disagreement over who has come out better from the settlement recommended by the Labour Relations Court. Workers voted to accept the proposal put forward by the travel agency, following a bitter dispute that lasted for weeks. The company's announcement that it would close offices in Dublin in July, resulted in a dramatic sit-in by workers, a gardai operation and a court appearance.
Thomas Cook said that they have returned to an offer which is identical to the original amount recommended in July, but the unions insisted there was now more in the package. Pete Constanti, CEO Mainstream Travel for Thomas Cook UK & Ireland said: "We have honoured a redundancy package based on five weeks of pay per year of service. This equals the value of that which was offered prior to the unofficial action and the illegal occupation of the Grafton Street store."
However, the ex-employees' union, the Transport Salaried Staffs' Association (TSSA) said that they were satisfied that the deal was improved.

I see Element 6 will get Government aid of €1.3m to retain the jobs which is good (€800,000 in FAS training and upskilling grants and the newly introduced wage subsidy of €500,000).

The union rep has stated that the company will receive €2.88 million in rebates from the Government on the redundancy package of €6.5 million on offer to the workers.

It is important to remember multinationals are in the business of making a profit for shareholders. In the end that is the bottom line - the directors payments and bonuses are dependent on what profits are delivered. Because of this they will take the tough decisions and like Thomas Cook walk away from any country that will not add to the profits. In the end it will come down to this and the Unions/workers will shortly have to decide how far more they can push, before E6 decides it would be more profitable to move operation to another country (where workers are paid 1/5th of the wages and operation costs are much lower).

irishturkey

clarecoco wrote: »

In relation to the Thomas Cook workers they appear to have got the exact same as was being given prior to the dispute. The only difference seems to be that one portion is now called an "ex gratia payment" instead of "one month's salary".

I see Element 6 will get Government aid of €1.3m to retain the jobs which is good (€800,000 in FAS training and upskilling grants and the newly introduced wage subsidy of €500,000).

The union rep has stated that the company will receive €2.88 million in rebates from the Government on the redundancy package of €6.5 million on offer to the workers.

It is important to remember multinationals are in the business of making a profit for shareholders. In the end that is the bottom line - the directors payments and bonuses are dependent on what profits are delivered. Because of this they will take the tough decisions and like Thomas Cook walk away from any country that will not add to the profits. In the end it will come down to this and the Unions/workers will shortly have to decide how far more they can push, before E6 decides it would be more profitable to move operation to another country (where workers are paid 1/5th of the wages and operation costs are much lower).

Does nobody find it odd that the original redundancy package was €6.5m and when the government throw in €1.3m for training and upskilling the redundancy package is suddenly increased by €1.5m?

Does nobody want to question Ken O Sullivan on why he has been made a director of a company if he has presided over a site that has become so costly to the company?

Is it not wrong for a company to try to enforce a ban on shop stewards conducting union business on site without the HR manager giving permission? If anybody is making that call, surely it should be the General Manager I would have thought.

Why were workers given letters of protective notice during the 30 day consultation period? This is illegal and an attempt at bullying and intimidation.

Why did the company want to go to the LRC so badly when they have made it clear just last week that they have no mandate from the executive to negotiate? Surely a trip to the LRC would be a waste of time and money if they aren't prepared to move on any issue. Which leads to...

Why this week are they suddenly willing to go to the LRC with a mandate to negotiate over redundancy terms? What happened over the weekend to change their stance?

Why exactly did Clinton Dickerson resign his post with the company?

When SIPTU informed the company that they were willing to enter talks with the company about the redundancy package if there was room for negotiating, why did the company release a statement informing the press that the union had actually agreed to go to the LRC?

Be careful of what you hear in the media. Its easy to put a spin on things to suit one side and thats whats happening.

clarecoco

I have no doubt the employees have very valid issues. However, in any negotiations both sides should have an end-game in mind rather than getting entrenched in constant criticism of the other side. I do not think that scoring points against management will progress the Union/workers case or increase the size of redundancy payments. Increasing redundancy payments would seem to be the aim of the workers so sitting down and talking seems to be the only way forward. It seems sensible to use whatever forum is available to do that whteher it be the LRC or whatever.

irishturkey wrote: »

Does nobody find it odd that the original redundancy package was €6.5m and when the government throw in €1.3m for training and upskilling the redundancy package is suddenly increased by €1.5m?

Why should the workers care - take the extra and thank the taxpayer, without trying to score points agains management in doing so!

Does nobody want to question Ken O Sullivan on why he has been made a director of a company if he has presided over a site that has become so costly to the company?

I would take a different view of this. He has been made Director so (looking in from the outside) it could be part of the contingency plan if the Shannon plant has to close down. He will still be Director.

Why exactly did Clinton Dickerson resign his post with the company?

This man whoever he is is gone, and has not progressed the matter one iota. When he resigned did he make a statement supporting Shannon or is this trying to find reasons to feel hopeful about a bad situation?
What has this got to do with the Shannon redundancy payments?
That is the bottom line for the employees.

In relation to the media I expect its reporting information and press releases from both sides. That is normal. There are a lot of people unemployed at the moment and you will find the man on the street finds it difficult to understand why the 160 jobs being saved are not being discussed.

There seems to be some progress and in the end this will be resolved. Hopefully negotiations will mean that the jobs will be saved and whoever is being made redundant gets a reasonable package.

irishturkey

This is the absolute horse**** we, the workers, are being faced with. I can understand the ordinary joe soap on the ground not knowing the real information but what we're experiencing is ridiculous...

There are constant comments posted here about E6 workers, their greed, their stubbornness, by people who know no better. Its understandable to a degree. But our elected representatives are making a mockery of themselves. I emailed the Tanaiste over two weeks ago, I've yet to get a reply. This woman has supposedly been part of the plan to save E6 Shannon but can't be arsed to listen to what the pople have to say. Then we have Willie. Willie (I'm wearing a hairy cock under my nose) O Dea. He had the gall, the outright arrogance to make statements recently about jobs in Shannon. "They should be going to the LRC", "If they don't want the jobs, theres 163 people here in Limerick who'll take them".

Had our wise Minister for Defence bothered to check facts? Of course not, surely he has a civil servant emplyed to do that for him.

Fact: Last January E6 workers were put on short time for one week. This was disputed by all affected. The matter went to the Labour Relations Commission who recommended we be paid half of our weeks wages. The said week was in January. The hearing at the LRC was in May, we have still to see a penny from our elusive employers.

All of a sudden, wee Willie has a change of heart. So we got a letter this week explaining that he didn't know about this and could understand why we were reluctant to enter into talks with a company who had downright disregarded a previous recommendation from the LRC. Maybe one or two others might be well served by checking out facts rather than throwing up rubbish about "the man in the street". We know how precious jobs are right now. We're not idiots. So don't throw moral arguments at us about saving jobs at any cost, which is what some people expect to be done. There's a need for cutbacks, we all accept that, but at least have the good grace to let people go with their heads held high, with what they've worked for and deserve.

A company cannot give out a review of 2008 procaliming that they're in rude health and then expect workers to take a hammering when the executive decide they want rid. Its time people in this country stopped thinking that reading a broadsheet means you're an intellectual. Neither the Times, nor Independent or any of their contemporaries get the full story so they can't report the full story. You're being fooled. And in commenting on social issues like this without full facts and knowledge you in turn make a fool of yourself.

We don't like finishing night shifts at 7am and having come to back at 12 to march around Shannon Ind Est in the hope we might get what we deserve. But its all we can do. Every person present is a bonus, a morale boost.

I can only implore pople one more time to be open minded. To think a little more outside the box. If it was you would you simply say.... "ok ill take whatever you offer and like it". Of course not. We're being screwed and the public are being duped.

It has to stop. We're all tired of the lies. Its time for open, honest discussion including negoatiation from both sides. There is little point in cionciliation talks when once side has no room for manouevre. Thtas just asking te other side to give more. Right now we feel like we've given enough, we want our rewards. I wanted to use the term just deserves there. But that would be tantamout to saying we havent done more than we had to for this company. We have. Now, let them recognise it.