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Are you in a trade union?

seamus

Right, only posting this cos a couple of weeks back I was listening to the rahdeeo and one of the union muppets (Jack O'Connor from SIPTU I think) made some claim that 95% of people who aren't part of a union, want to be in a union, according to their survey.

Frankly I think this is complete and utter bull****. Most people I know aren't in any kind of union and consider them to be nothing but apologists for the lazy, ignorant and selfish workers, run by an old boy's club of leeches.

So I'd like to know the boardsies union "status". For the purposes of the poll, I'm not included artists' unions (such as Equity) which represent individuals/organsations not protected by normal employment law.

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Comments

maggy_thatcher

seamus wrote: »

Some employers make union membership a mandatory part of your contract of employment. If you don't join, then you're not accepting the job. If you leave, you're cancelling your employment contract and quitting.

So if you get kicked out of the union you get fired?

Long Onion

seamus wrote: »

Some employers make union membership a mandatory part of your contract of employment. If you don't join, then you're not accepting the job. If you leave, you're cancelling your employment contract and quitting.

They can't do that legally I'm afraid. The constitutional right to association also implies a right to disassociation.

In my student days i worked in a supermarket where they made me join and then told me that the only way i was entitled to a 15 minute break (i only worked short hours) was to come in 15 minutes earlier and leave 15 later - so work an extra 30 mins to get a 15 min break - i told them to shove it up their collective holes and the told me it was mandatory to stay in the union.

I was studying law at the time and gave them the above guff so they (shop stewards) left me alone - but hated me I'm sure.

I'm now a member of a union but only because it suits me, generally I think that they are dinosaur communists and create barriers to progress and competition but I am, after all a self serving b'stard and will leave when it suits me.

Eoin

Nodin wrote: »

It doesn't cover the quality of service or loyalty either.

If the cap is only set at x amount per year rather than an overall cap, then loyalty is rewarded; if you mean years of service when you say loyalty.

However, assuming that wages are linked to your quality of service (big leap, I know), then it doesn't really cover that, if you're earning over 500 a week.

But that's probably for another thread.

mouthful

Would love to be in a union. my boss is a pig and treats us like rubbish.

Just told us 20% pay cut or leave the job, then I hear some rich kids saying "no need for a union":eek:

I have had enough going to get my mates to work with me in forming a union and even if they sack me it can not be any worse than what is happening now.:mad:

bleg

I had a summer job for a well known cider company. Used to work on the keg line. The shop steward was on the line with me. We were just about to equal the number of kegs the previous shift had done with an hour left on our shift. He says shut down the line, I ask why, he said that we can't go too much over what the people before us had done. Now in fairness that line was always tempermental and there could have been a problem. The company doesn't even impose a quota system.

Same guy wanted more money for being asked to sterilise the filter at the end of a shift.

Completely turned me off the unions.

CallMeMiss

seamus wrote: »

95% of people who aren't part of a union, want to be in a union, according to their survey.

Sitting here trying to get the last bit of my thesis done thats due in tomorrow.....(I really shouldnt be on boads)! Topic is Polish workers and Irish trade unions... from the research Iv done over the past few months this claim is total bull****

phantom_lord

mouthful wrote: »

Would love to be in a union. my boss is a pig and treats us like rubbish.

Just told us 20% pay cut or leave the job, then I hear some rich kids saying "no need for a union":eek:

I have had enough going to get my mates to work with me in forming a union and even if they sack me it can not be any worse than what is happening now.:mad:

lol, hello mr union rep.

irishturkey

ive been working with a company for over 6 years now. about 2 years i could see excrement hitting the ventilator so i joined the union. last wednesday i was told myself and 369 would be gone by christmas. go to the search bar and type "element six". see what our union got us.

so you know, im sitting spending my months wages on beer. and im not celebrating. unions have this country on its knees

anonymous_joe

I hate the things.

I freely accept and support the existence of Unions in a context in which workers are being exploited and need protection. However, in any other context I think they're evil things, that do their absolute best to fcuk any economic growth.

K-9

Trade Unions! What sort of witchcraft do you speak off?

Mahatma coat

Australians havesome strange fetish about unions, they seem to think they are a good idea despite the glaringly obvious truth that they're not. unions muck up productivity, unions lead to an entrenched workforce, unions reward the stupid and the lazy, unions stifle competition.

but Australians will try to convince you that their unions are different to all the other unions that have fvcked up the world, their unions just also happen to have coopted the government again, so itsa case of be in a union or get shat on from the highest levels all the way down, my Ex was a labor party lackie and the amount of ****e that they had pumped into her head was amazing, sometimes in an argument she would just start chanting pointless and meaningless mantras and if you put her on te spot to explain it she had no idea what it meant or how it applied to the situation.

Unions are a malignint cancer on society , when the Howard(liberal) government introduced the AWA (Australian Workplace Agreement) the Unions realised that it removed them from the employment negotiation process, and instead of collective bargaining it was in the hands of the individual to negotiate their contracts, thats a great thing IMO, where previously all the people in the company doing what I did had to be on the same award rate regardless of how good you were at your job, this meant that individuals could set out their own terms, what it also meant was that those entrenched union members clockwatchin til retirement would be found out for the useless lazy B@stards they are, and ya cant have paid up members being embarrased like that so theyranted andrailed and made up a lot of emotive bullSh!t ads on the telly, got themselves elected on the fact that most Australians are Uneducated ilinformed lazy morons afraid of change.

mikemac

I tried to organize a union drive in work once.
Working in a hotel and treated like dirt. :mad:

Finish work at a wedding at 4am and manager tells you to be in for 9am breakfast. Minimum rest periods?lol!

It went nowhere. The foreign staff didn't know what it was about and didn't want to join. And a lot of the Irish staff were part-time and had no interest.
And tbh, the union had not much interest in us due to so many part-time staff, maybe less subscriptions for them.

What I took from the experience was unions seem happy to represent full-time staff where they will get guaranteed subs.
There are thousands of low paid people in the hotel industry, many getting bullied and abused by management. Why are the unions not trying to sign them up and protect them?

Run_to_da_hills

Could have left another option on the poll, "Not by choice" I have done contract work in the past where I couldn't a job or get on site without a card. I hold a card myself and just have it yet a lot of places don't require it. If I ever have to sign on between jobs I can reduce the dues to one euro a month but would need a letter from the dole office.

I have worked in some of the Union shops in the States and they are a different ball game altogether. Wages in Union jobs are a lot higher, they are more difficult to get into and if you get laid off the union often pays you your "dole" and will do its bit to get you reemployed. Union dues are a lot higher than here.

deise blue

I work in the Financial Sector in a company with a strong union membership.
I enjoy a 35 hour week with any hours worked in excess of that paid as overtime , annual leave is 30 days and I am a member of a defined benefit pension scheme.
All terms and conditions bargained for and protected by our union.
Am I in a Trade Union - damn sure !

Mr Benevolent

deise blue wrote: »

I work in the Financial Sector in a company with a strong union membership.
I enjoy a 35 hour week with any hours worked in excess of that paid as overtime , annual leave is 30 days and I am a member of a defined benefit pension scheme.
All terms and conditions bargained for and protected by our union.
Am I in a Trade Union - damn sure !

Oh god. Financial sector eh? So we can also blame the bank crash on the unions too. I suspected as much.

Unions are worse than worthless. One of the most efficient, influential and famous businesses in Ireland has a policy of having nothing to do with unions and consequently is a shining example to all other companies (once you're intelligent enough not to fall for the media bull****).

The company? Ryanair.

Rabies

I hate trade unions.
They seem to favour the lazy man.

Crush them!

irish_bob

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Australians havesome strange fetish about unions, they seem to think they are a good idea despite the glaringly obvious truth that they're not. unions muck up productivity, unions lead to an entrenched workforce, unions reward the stupid and the lazy, unions stifle competition.

but Australians will try to convince you that their unions are different to all the other unions that have fvcked up the world, their unions just also happen to have coopted the government again, so itsa case of be in a union or get shat on from the highest levels all the way down, my Ex was a labor party lackie and the amount of ****e that they had pumped into her head was amazing, sometimes in an argument she would just start chanting pointless and meaningless mantras and if you put her on te spot to explain it she had no idea what it meant or how it applied to the situation.

Unions are a malignint cancer on society , when the Howard(liberal) government introduced the AWA (Australian Workplace Agreement) the Unions realised that it removed them from the employment negotiation process, and instead of collective bargaining it was in the hands of the individual to negotiate their contracts, thats a great thing IMO, where previously all the people in the company doing what I did had to be on the same award rate regardless of how good you were at your job, this meant that individuals could set out their own terms, what it also meant was that those entrenched union members clockwatchin til retirement would be found out for the useless lazy B@stards they are, and ya cant have paid up members being embarrased like that so theyranted andrailed and made up a lot of emotive bullSh!t ads on the telly, got themselves elected on the fact that most Australians are Uneducated ilinformed lazy morons afraid of change.

australians are an inheriently lazy nation

deise blue

Confab wrote: »

Oh god. Financial sector eh? So we can also blame the bank crash on the unions too. I suspected as much.

Unions are worse than worthless. One of the most efficient, influential and famous businesses in Ireland has a policy of having nothing to do with unions and consequently is a shining example to all other companies (once you're intelligent enough not to fall for the media bull****).

The company? Ryanair.

Obviously i'm going to have to simplify this for someone whose opening comment is that the bank crash is the Union's fault !
Ryanair - the company who said they would recognise the Aer lingus Unions if their bid was successful - hypocritical or what ?
What about Dell , totally non-unionised and then the sacked workers had to form a worker's body to negotiate a reasonable redundancy offer ?

Snoopy1

I had to join a union in my last job. Then they said "as your only a contracter we cant do anything for you, but you still have to pay your fees".

Didnt like the union at all, no body could do anything without running to the union to get permission. I'm suprised they didnt ask their reps if they could go to the toilet!!!

Now my job is non unionised and i think it is much better.

markpb

deise blue wrote: »

I work in the Financial Sector in a company with a strong union membership. I enjoy a 35 hour week with any hours worked in excess of that paid as overtime , annual leave is 30 days and I am a member of a defined benefit pension scheme.
All terms and conditions bargained for and protected by our union.
Am I in a Trade Union - damn sure !

You realise most FS companies are here to clear profits from other countries through our tax system? They can afford to treat you like that because of our low taxes, not because the union negotiated it. If CGT or corporate taxes go up, they'll be gone like the wind and there won't be anything your union can do for you.

Cookie_Monster

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Unions are a malignint cancer on society , when the Howard(liberal) government introduced the AWA (Australian Workplace Agreement) the Unions realised that it removed them from the employment negotiation process, and instead of collective bargaining it was in the hands of the individual to negotiate their contracts, thats a great thing IMO, where previously all the people in the company doing what I did had to be on the same award rate regardless of how good you were at your job, this meant that individuals could set out their own terms, what it also meant was that those entrenched union members clockwatchin til retirement would be found out for the useless lazy B@stards they are, and ya cant have paid up members being embarrased like that so theyranted andrailed and made up a lot of emotive bullSh!t ads on the telly, got themselves elected on the fact that most Australians are Uneducated ilinformed lazy morons afraid of change.

That was a good post right up until the longest sentence ever.

Unshelved

Whether you want to admit it or not, every PAYE worker working in Ireland today enjoys benefits that have been hard fought for by Unions in the past.

For those of you pouring scorn on trade unions - good luck in the recession - I hope it keeps fine for you, because there'll be nobody watching your back if it doesn't.

Eoin

Unshelved wrote: »

For those of you pouring scorn on trade unions - good luck in the recession - I hope it keeps fine for you, because there'll be nobody watching your back if it doesn't.

And there's no chance of a union causing a company to go to the wall because they won't be allowed make any necessary changes?

Cookie_Monster

eoin wrote: »

And there's no chance of a union causing a company to go to the wall because they won't be allowed make any necessary changes?

No, never, not a chance, there's nothing to see here, move along move along

Sizzler

seamus wrote: »

Right, only posting this cos a couple of weeks back I was listening to the rahdeeo and one of the union muppets (Jack O'Connor from SIPTU I think) made some claim that 95% of people who aren't part of a union, want to be in a union, according to their survey.

Frankly I think this is complete and utter bull****. Most people I know aren't in any kind of union and consider them to be nothing but apologists for the lazy, ignorant and selfish workers, run by an old boy's club of leeches.

So I'd like to know the boardsies union "status". For the purposes of the poll, I'm not included artists' unions (such as Equity) which represent individuals/organsations not protected by normal employment law.

No doubt SIPTU / MANDATE / ICTU etc etc would say this board only represents a tiny fragment of the population and is not representative of what the real people want :rolleyes:

I personally feel Unions currently have waaaaaaaay too much power at the moment and frankly the likes of David Begg and Jack O'Connor are not in touch with the current economic situation. I heard O'Connor on the radio last week saying he would defend cutbacks in the public sector of any description, yes thats what he gets paid to do but these clowns are probably the only people in the country at the moment who do not want to help the situation and seem to think they are insulated from any sort of change in conditions.

The electricians strike the other week was a perfect example, there was a number of blue chip companies and their employees put in jeopardy as a result of an outside dispute impacting on their operation. Did the unions give a toss about everybody else? Did they f**k! The irony is these lads are probably pulling in €150k a year and are doing their best to milk a cow when it ran out of milk last year.

Time and a place for everything, we are not in that place at the moment and these gougers should be put back in their box.

Riamfada

All lefties are lazy.

That is all

deise blue

Unshelved wrote: »

Whether you want to admit it or not, every PAYE worker working in Ireland today enjoys benefits that have been hard fought for by Unions in the past.

For those of you pouring scorn on trade unions - good luck in the recession - I hope it keeps fine for you, because there'll be nobody watching your back if it doesn't.

Could'nt agree more.
Emloyers are only interested in maximising profit margins and if you think they are employee friendly in recessionary times well then think again !

BnA

I am in my hole.

I have more respect for myself.

Long Onion

deise blue wrote: »

Could'nt agree more.
Emloyers are only interested in maximising profit margins and if you think they are employee friendly in recessionary times well then think again !

There is an argument that unions actually help the continued success of capitalism and thus defeat themselves. If bosses had their own way, we would all work 24 hours a day for 10c. Of course this would mean that we would have no time or money to buy goods which would lead to the demise of business.

The unions actually create a perfect balance for the capitalists by ensuring that we all have the time and the money to spend on perpetuating the status quo.

So, the unions are actually helping promote capitalism - up your hole jack o'connor and your ranting communist sh1te. Root yourself in reality and leave my ears and job alone.

Riamfada

Long Onion wrote: »

If bosses had their own way, we would all work 24 hours a day for 10c. Of course this would mean that we would have no time or money to buy goods which would lead to the demise of business.

Are we still living in the 18th century? Its people like that who run trade unions and promote this "us v them" attitude in the workplace.

Just a quick little story. I work in a place that is heavily unionised. People will not go outside of their stated contract without extra pay. The Union members bully those workers who might pick up a sweeping brush on lunch or process dockets faster than the rest.

Unions are really sickening and I cannot understand them.

Unions represent the interest of their workers. Not the interest of the state or company. If the money dosnt exist and the workers want it, the union has to acchieve or seen to attempt to acchieve despite realilty and logic. I am warmed to see the resulsts of the poll.