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Over 90,000 receiving rent Allowance

Otis Driftwood

Interesting,and slightly worrying article in todays Indo.Almost €500 million will be spent on rent relief alone this year.This has to be addressed.Surely if you cannot afford to pay rent in one place you move to a cheaper place,its not rocket science.With funding being cut in vital sectors this is an unneccessary expense.It needs to be much more stringent.At least the are trying to do something by putting restrictions on it but is it a case of too little too late?

THE number of people receiving State rent support has jumped by nearly a quarter in just six months -- with one-third of claimants foreign nationals.

New figures supplied to the Irish Independent show that the recession has caused a huge increase in the numbers unable to meet housing costs on their own.

At the end of last year, just over 74,000 people were in receipt of rent supplement from the State. Now the figure has jumped by 23pc and stands at a record 91,000, the Department of Social Welfare confirmed yesterday.

Recent figures, compiled when there were 89,000 claimants, show that 32,000 -- more than one third -- are non-nationals.

They show 7,638 Poles, 2,886 Nigerians, 2,108 Lithuanians, 1,512 Romanians and 1,318 Latvians among the highest categories of non-nationals being paid the benefit. People from 163 countries and territories, excluding Ireland, get the rent supplement.

A Dail committee will today discuss the problems of poverty-stricken households living in private rented accommodation -- with the Government having slashed the maximum rent support payable since the beginning of June.

Social Affairs Minister Mary Hanafin has told tenants who had to take an 8pc reduction in their support to negotiate lower rent with their landlord. She pointed out that rents have fallen by 11pc in the last year, and by more in cities.

State spending on the scheme was over €440m during 2008. The department yesterday said that an estimated €490m will be spent on rent supplement this year, or an average of €500 per claimant.

The department said : "Rent supplement is now restricted to individuals who have held an existing tenancy for six months or who are in homeless accommodation, or who have a local authority assessment which indicates that they are eligible.

Needs

"All other claimants must have been placed on a housing list following a full needs assessment by the local authority before they are eligible."

The department accepted that tenants may be contractually obliged to pay the rent agreed to in their lease, even though their support payments have been cut by 8pc.

But it added: "It is expected that landlords will decrease the rent in recognition of the fact that rents have fallen generally and that there are now a large number of vacant rental properties nationally."

Recent data from the CSO shows that rents in the private sector have fallen by almost 20pc in the past year. A leading property website reported recently that rents had fallen by almost 16pc in the 12 months to March 2009, with falls of 10pc in Galway, 15pc in Cork and 12pc-18pc in Dublin.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/strain-on-rent-relief-as-32000-foreigners-claim-aid-1843632.html

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Wertz

snubbleste wrote: »

I came to the same conclusion years ago Wertz, but what can you do? I went to 2 local councillors about it, they said it was a disgusting situation but did nothing about it at local authority level.

See there's your problem...too many levels of governance. It's in all liklihood that some of those sitting on local autorities are themslves dabblers in the buy to rent market or are related to/friends of people who are....then you go up the food chain and it just get's worse; cosy love ins with developers, land bank owners, yadda yadda
I personally know of at least two buy to let-ters in my area (who I've worked for) who used work for the health boards...they saw the huge demand in housing unemployed/immigrants coming a decade back and started buying up local properties. One of them, has done so well out of it that he's managed to buy land and biuld another two sets of appartments, which he goes on to fill with more rent allowance claimants and emergency housing from the DSFA.
Meanwhile private tennants in this country have some of the worst rights and entitlements in the EU (this may have changed recently, not sure)

If an idiot like me can see this coming from a disatnce then how can the bean counters in the hallowed civil services not? I reckon the indo's figures above may not even reflect the real actual costs that schemes such as this have cost and are costing the country.

rarnes1 wrote: »

OP, the max rent relief one can claim is E400 a year. Hardly a huge amount.

Read the thread. We're talking about rent allownace; ie a supplement (usually about 40-50%) paid to low earners to allow them to rent private property in lieu of hosuing them in proper council property.

ronaneire

rarnes1 wrote: »

OP, the max rent relief one can claim is E400 a year. Hardly a huge amount.

It is if there are 1000's claiming it. Do the maths. If your genuine fair enough, if your not, let them get up off there fat asses and get a job.
Oh hang on, I'll go out the back and get some money off the tree.

JazzyJ

rarnes1 wrote: »

OP, the max rent relief one can claim is E400 a year. Hardly a huge amount.

That's rent allowance rather than rent relief. Rent allowance comes from social welfare, rent relief comes as a tax credit. Massive difference.

The average cost for rent allowance per person per year works out at approximately €500,000,000 / 90,000 = €5,555.

Wertz

Perosnally I can see little wrong with the rent relief tax break for private tennants...it's just some money you've earned that you don't pay tax on, because rent is considered an unavoidable living expense of sorts...like health insurance, or refuse collection or pensions. That money gets spent in the economy in some other way and would incur some sort of tax no matter where it is spent...

Bandit12

MagicMarker wrote: »

We have no one to blame but ourselves.

No job? No problem, we'll give you money for free.
Can't afford rent? No problem, we'll pay most of it for you.
Need to go to the doctor? No worries, we'll cover that.
Have a landline? We'll pay that for ya, ya can't be without broadband now can ya?
Oh you've had another baby? Ah sure, here's some extra cash for the bastard child.

Fucking gobshites.

I've heard some rubbish in my time but your post takes the biscuit.
No job...Because there are none
Can't afford rent...Average rent more expensive than New York or London
Need to go to a doctor...Yeah they should just stay home and die:rolleyes:
Have a landline...Urban myth like the free pushchairs to African women that it's paid for along with broadband.
Oh you've had another baby...That's what women do
Would you rather see people die than given the dole? or possibly turn to crime for money to put food on the table for the kids because they where unfortunate enough to lose their job?

Otis Driftwood

Bandit12 wrote: »

No job...Because there are none

There are jobs out there,they are just harder to get because of the competition.

inforfun

Bandit12 wrote: »

Would you rather see people die than given the dole? or possibly turn to crime for money to put food on the table for the kids because they where unfortunate enough to lose their job?

Now that is ridiculous for sure.

I have a job but can i get 204 a week and rent allowance anyway, otherwise i might turn to crime as well?

An Fear Aniar

MagicMarker wrote: »

No, what I'm saying that the system is being taken advantage of, and it's our own fault. People who genuinely need support should get it, but I'd say a LARGE chunk of that 90,000 people don't need it.

Yeah, like the banks when they **** up with greedy stupid lending decisions. Ridiculous that you should begrudge people the basic right to have a roof over their heads.

.

MagicMarker

Bandit12 wrote: »

I've heard some rubbish in my time but your post takes the biscuit.
No job...Because there are none
Can't afford rent...Average rent more expensive than New York or London
Need to go to a doctor...Yeah they should just stay home and die:rolleyes:
Have a landline...Urban myth like the free pushchairs to African women that it's paid for along with broadband.
Oh you've had another baby...That's what women do
Would you rather see people die than given the dole? or possibly turn to crime for money to put food on the table for the kids because they where unfortunate enough to lose their job?

Read the whole thread before responding mmkay?

Oh, and yes, you can get your line rental paid for if you're unemployed.

MagicMarker

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

Yeah, like the banks when they **** up with greedy stupid lending decisions. Ridiculous that you should begrudge people the basic right to have a roof over their heads.

.

Again, read the whole bloody thread before responding.

Wertz

MagicMarker wrote: »

Oh, and yes, you can get your line rental paid for if you're unemployed.

Links or it didn't happen.

There are only two instances I know of where a phone is provided for someone on welfare...OAPs and those with dire medical problems.
There are anecdotal reports of refugees being given cheap mobiles and money to put credit on them but that may well be one of these urban myths...

limklad

There is already a plan to reduce payment to rent allowance reported in the Cork Examiner on the 9th May and the government will implement legislation in the coming months.
Tenants to lose rent allowance for ‘non-green’ properties

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/snkfmhsnau/rss2/

I estimate nearly 90% of properties in this country are no where near green and I doubt it if any of those green houses are in the rental sector, therefore most if not all rent allowance will be dropped.

Landlords do not care about green homes nor the cost of heating in those houses for their tenants. If the Landlords do retrofit the houses, then the rent will increase far beyond the cost of fuel saved by the tenants and adding another excuse for raising rents!

limklad

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Not only is it an unnecessary expense but it artificially inflates rents and house prices. It'd be better for everyone except the developers and landlords if it stopped because they'd have to drop their prices

I doubt it very much if Landlords will drop their prices, if anything the Rent relief and rent allowance was handy for the revenue Commissioners to know which houses are for rent and if that landlord is pay his/her taxes. I have come across three Landlords in my street, who have not registered their houses on PRTB which they are legal required to do so, I have check the publish list on http://www.prtb.ie/

I also see in the papers over the 10 years with comments "No Rent relief" advertised with houses for rent and are asking for the same price as those landlords (Who pay their taxes and above board) allow rent allowance.

The only one way price for rent to drop is when the market is oversupplied which leaves houses empty which cost money to Landlords. Any other excuse is an excuse for Landlords to increase Rents.

Many people who are in rented properties are on low income wages either far from their original homes or get away from their parents while trying to earn money. Most who are on rent relief cannot afford their own House or cannot get a mortgage especially in this economic climate and the failure of the government to regulate the banks and the warning signs they Blatantly ignored!

I wonder how much interest relief Mortgage Holders are getting in total in this country in comparison to Rent relief?

Wertz

BTW just as an aside to this, mate's g/f the other night was reading through the To Let section of the local rag...she commented on the amount of property for rent with the little addendum "Rent allowance accepted", which tells it's own tale...for as long as I've been looking at rental property around here, rent allowance was a dirty word because it usually meant you were poor/unemployed/refugee or a combination of the above, and hence there wrere probably better potential clients waiting in the wings...now suddenly when things go belly up rent allowance is good enough, since so many more people are on welfare.

Sam Vimes

limklad wrote: »

I doubt it very much if Landlords will drop their prices, if anything the Rent relief and rent allowance was handy for the revenue Commissioners to know which houses are for rent and if that landlord is pay his/her taxes. I have come across three Landlords in my street, who have not registered their houses on PRTB which they are legal required to do so, I have check the publish list on http://www.prtb.ie/

I also see in the papers over the 10 years with comments "No Rent relief" advertised with houses for rent and are asking for the same price as those landlords (Who pay their taxes and above board) allow rent allowance.

The only one way price for rent to drop is when the market is oversupplied which leaves houses empty which cost money to Landlords. Any other excuse is an excuse for Landlords to increase Rents.

Many people who are in rented properties are on low income wages either far from their original homes or get away from their parents while trying to earn money. Most who are on rent relief cannot afford their own House or cannot get a mortgage especially in this economic climate and the failure of the government to regulate the banks and the warning signs they Blatantly ignored!

I wonder how much interest relief Mortgage Holders are getting in total in this country in comparison to Rent relief?

You say the only way for rent to drop is when the market is oversupplied but the market is oversupplied. There are tens of thousands of empty houses in Ireland today and if a large amount of money is taken out of the market through the removal of rent relief, the landlords will have the choice to reduce their rent or find themselves without tenants in a country where it's becoming increasingly difficult to get tenants. It's a renters market at the moment

Brokenpromises

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

There are thousands of jobs out there all you need to do is look... Even if you lose your job it should be fairly easy to walk into another.

This was one extraordinarily ignorant (at best) comment. I am looking for a job for months. Every day I spend looking for a job, and throughout the night as well. I am applying for everything, and I am twisting my CV each time for the application in question. I have worked as a cashier, a building labourer, a petrol pump attendant, a supermarket employee and much more. I have applied for jobs in Yale University and many other universities across the world only to be informed months later that the positions in question have been cancelled.

That's my "real world" experience. Academically, I finished in the top 10% of my year in both my degree subjects, and I received a doctoral scholarship for my PhD. I went through a 2-hour PhD viva voce and was awarded my doctorate by a panel of five academics. None of this matters now: I just want to work, and I have left most of this out of my applications. I merely want to earn money after years of working for no money, after of years of working out of love for my subject. More importantly, I want to work to pay off the debts that arose out of this education, which are now a cause of worry for me. I never gambled and I never took risks during the "Celtic Tiger" years; I just did my work while everybody around me passed me out in material terms. I didn't mind because I expected I would be fine when my postgrad was finished. I am conscientious as well as hardworking. I am obviously highly motivated - undoubtedly more motivated than you or people who think like you - to get up year after year and work without any material reward. Other people, people who in arrogance terms are evidently like you, messed this up for people like me.

How dare you.

Wertz

Sam Vimes wrote: »

You say the only way for rent to drop is when the market is oversupplied but the market is oversupplied. There are tens of thousands of empty houses in Ireland today and if a large amount of money is taken out of the market through the removal of rent relief, the landlords will have the choice to reduce their rent or find themselves without tenants in a country where it's becoming increasingly difficult to get tenants. It's a renters market at the moment

Buy to let investors who have entered the market in recent years aren't going to drop these rents...they can't. Their business model relied in being able to meet mortgage repayments whilst the property gained equity...now they are faced with negative equity, an ever declining number of potential tenants and a possible cut in rent allowances.
In most cases I can see keys just being handed back to banks here, rather than them trying to operate at a loss for the life of the loan...

Bandit12

MagicMarker wrote: »

Read the whole thread before responding mmkay?

Oh, and yes, you can get your line rental paid for if you're unemployed.

No you can't and learn to stop insulting people. It will make you a nicer person :cool:

Helix

funkyflea wrote: »

Just wait until you and your partner lose your jobs and can't afford to pay rent because the landlord won't reduce it and your in the middle of a contract.

surely thats the fault of you and your partner?

where are your savings?

Helix

Brokenpromises wrote: »

This was one extraordinarily ignorant (at best) comment. I am looking for a job for months. Every day I spend looking for a job, and throughout the night as well. I am applying for everything, and I am twisting my CV each time for the application in question. I have worked as a cashier, a building labourer, a petrol pump attendant, a supermarket employee and much more. I have applied for jobs in Yale University and many other universities across the world only to be informed months later that the positions in question have been cancelled.

That's my "real world" experience. Academically, I finished in the top 10% of my year in both my degree subjects, and I received a doctoral scholarship for my PhD. I went through a 2-hour PhD viva voce and was awarded my doctorate by a panel of five academics. None of this matters now: I just want to work, and I have left most of this out of my applications. I merely want to earn money after years of working for no money, after of years of working out of love for my subject. More importantly, I want to work to pay off the debts that arose out of this education, which are now a cause of worry for me. I never gambled and I never took risks during the "Celtic Tiger" years; I just did my work while everybody around me passed me out in material terms. I didn't mind because I expected I would be fine when my postgrad was finished. I am conscientious as well as hardworking. I am obviously highly motivated - undoubtedly more motivated than you or people who think like you - to get up year after year and work without any material reward. Other people, people who in arrogance terms are evidently like you, messed this up for people like me.

How dare you.

you cant find a job, anywhere on the planet?

Bandit12

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

There are thousands of jobs out there all you need to do is look...
Even if you lose your job it should be fairly easy to walk into another.

I have my CV on the job sites and companies are ringing me offering interviews without me even activly seeking them...

Lucky you. I know several people who have been out of work for months (one guy for 19 months now) and believe you me these people are'nt you're average skangers or dole blugging sort. A lot of the low paying jobs are'nt hiring people who have been well educated or have more experience than the job requires for no other reason than they are seen as people who will know their working rights and won't be treated like sh!te. Also even if you're statement about there being "thousands of jobs out there" is right,we need hundreds of thousands of jobs not thousands last time i looked.

Bandit12

Brokenpromises wrote: »

This was one extraordinarily ignorant (at best) comment. I am looking for a job for months. Every day I spend looking for a job, and throughout the night as well. I am applying for everything, and I am twisting my CV each time for the application in question. I have worked as a cashier, a building labourer, a petrol pump attendant, a supermarket employee and much more. I have applied for jobs in Yale University and many other universities across the world only to be informed months later that the positions in question have been cancelled.

That's my "real world" experience. Academically, I finished in the top 10% of my year in both my degree subjects, and I received a doctoral scholarship for my PhD. I went through a 2-hour PhD viva voce and was awarded my doctorate by a panel of five academics. None of this matters now: I just want to work, and I have left most of this out of my applications. I merely want to earn money after years of working for no money, after of years of working out of love for my subject. More importantly, I want to work to pay off the debts that arose out of this education, which are now a cause of worry for me. I never gambled and I never took risks during the "Celtic Tiger" years; I just did my work while everybody around me passed me out in material terms. I didn't mind because I expected I would be fine when my postgrad was finished. I am conscientious as well as hardworking. I am obviously highly motivated - undoubtedly more motivated than you or people who think like you - to get up year after year and work without any material reward. Other people, people who in arrogance terms are evidently like you, messed this up for people like me.

How dare you.

Excellent post. Hope something comes up for you soon friend. Keep your chin up and feck the begrudgers.

[Deleted User]

Anyway...back on topic.Yeah...f*ck em all out onto the street...am I the only one who thinks there aren't enough homeless people in the country?..I like to throw things at them as I pass by...and say things like 'get a job you waster'...I cant wait till we start seeing homeless children too..that'll be class..

PaulieD

So, we are borrowing 400,000,000 per week, yet over 1/3 of those in reciept of rent allowance are non nationals. The mind boggles.

Wertz

PaulieD wrote: »

So, we are borrowing 400,000,000 per week, yet over 1/3 of those in reciept of rent allowance are non nationals. The mind boggles.

Yes but you can bet your last euro that every single one of the landlords receiving this state sponsored rent supplement as part payment toward their over-inflated rents are 100% Irish.

[Deleted User]

PaulieD wrote: »

So, we are borrowing 400,000,000 per week, yet over 1/3 of those in reciept of rent allowance are non nationals. The mind boggles.

Yeah, shur it was bound to come back to the aul 'they took ur jobs' soon enough..many of these people have been paying taxes in this country for the last few years..

Salvelinus

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, shur it was bound to come back to the aul 'they took ur jobs' soon enough..many of these people have been paying taxes in this country for the last few years..

It is their fault, we all kow they vote for FF because their parents do.

greendom

PaulieD wrote: »

So, we are borrowing 400,000,000 per week, yet over 1/3 of those in reciept of rent allowance are non nationals. The mind boggles.

So it's ok for non-nationals to be homeless

[Deleted User]

greendom wrote: »

So it's ok for non-nationals to be homeless

Shur they can just f*ck off back where they came from..

Sam Vimes

Wertz wrote: »

Buy to let investors who have entered the market in recent years aren't going to drop these rents...they can't. Their business model relied in being able to meet mortgage repayments whilst the property gained equity...now they are faced with negative equity, an ever declining number of potential tenants and a possible cut in rent allowances.
In most cases I can see keys just being handed back to banks here, rather than them trying to operate at a loss for the life of the loan...

If a business can't keep its prices low enough to match the competition, they go out of business. It's no different for landlords. If rent allowance goes, their current tenants either get a reduction or have to move out. If they move out and the landlord can't get more tenants to pay their rates, they either drop them or hand the keys back to the bank, who then sell it to someone at a price where they can afford to have lower rents.

The market is over supplied so supply and demand dictates that the prices drop. The fact that the landlords can't afford it because they bought at vastly over inflated prices is irrelevant. Prices need to drop to a realistic level but it's being prevented from happening because the government are paying people's over inflated rent