PDN wrote: » Which do they want - people to defect from the Catholic Church, or separation of Church and State? The two are entirely different issues.
PDN wrote: » I would be concerned only in that they seem somewhat confused. Which do they want - people to defect from the Catholic Church, or separation of Church and State? The two are entirely different issues.
Helix wrote: » ive to meet with a reverend fintan gavin in the next week or so to confirm my defection, which is a bit of an inconvenience but i suppose its their way of making sure youre not just doing it for the craic which is fair enough
crotalus667 wrote: » Hmmmmm thats not the norm some one having to meet some one to defect , may be they are doing it in an atempt to put people off defecting :rolleyes:
branie wrote: » have church authorities expressed any concerns about this website?
Jakkass wrote: » I don't think it's a major threat. It's not a huge number of people who are taking an interest in this kind of thing. I'm of the mindset that the figures are relatively accurate maybe with a margin of 100,000 error for Catholicism.
Jakkass wrote: » I'm of the mindset that the figures are relatively accurate maybe with a margin of 100,000 error for Catholicism.
Guy at work: Ok, so, the big bang, how the hell are we made out of an explosion? How do you explain that? How are flowers made out of an explosion? And how is the earth round? If I blew up a big rock with a load of C4, would the bits that fly off it be nice and round? NO THEY WOULDN'T! So nya nya!"
According to a survey conducted by the Catholic Bishops Conference, 63 percent of the 3.46 million Roman Catholics in the country attended mass once a week
ocianain wrote: » What is your explanation for the Big Bang by the way? Your co-worker confronted you with the problem of First Cause, no phenomena can create itself, it must have a creator. Even the BB. If you want to reply on another thread that would be cool
Stercus Accidit wrote: » Is catholicism then less about true belief in its faith, the divinity of the creator, and the eternal heaven reward for doing what it says in the good book, and more about a numbers game? No. I don't see how one could even posit this. Remember the reformation? It was all about true belief. It's just that outside of someone starting a revolution in Bohemia or Germany it's next to impossible to read the heart of another. If countmeout.ie helps non-catholics take themselves off the catholic registers, isn't that a good thing? I don't see how a non-Catholic can get on the register. Don't register at the parish and your not on any "list" the premise of the site is flawed, anyone could register (which is probably the purpose of it) any number of times. It's bogus through and through. Don't catholics want a true reflection of the numbers of their true believers, rather than a figure large enough to bludgeon their morality on the people politically? The bias inherent in your question is obvious, and rather shocking for the 21st century I might add. Why wouldn't agitating for making a Protestant/secular sensibility the dominant view be viewed as "bludgeoning their morality on the people politically?" People who don't pray, who don't attend confession, who don't believe in any of the bibles teachings, but only consider themselves catholic by birth, as though it were the defining point, they aren't getting into heaven, they aren't true believers but just babies with water splashed on them who grew up to be normal human beings. I mean, these people will tick the catholic box in the census, they will call themselves catholic and maintain your numbers, losing numbers of people who legitimately don't believe in your god is the least of your loss, if the apathetic free style catholics keep ticking your box on the form, and are considered valid followers of your faith and teachings. You know alot about people, judging their heart and knowing the are not going to Heaven and all, who gave you that authority, that power? Are you God? If not, you are in a serious need of humility. Protestantism continues to fracture into smaller and smaller sects, the last I saw there were some 40,000 Bible only Churches, ever wonder why? Are there 40,000 different TRUTHS? I don't think so, perhaps instead of pointing out the splinter in someone elses eye you should be removing the log from your own? That is, put your own house in order. Surely, providing an opt out website such as countmeout.ie is a good thing, I mean, you don't want to claim members by not giving them any choice in the matter, right? You make the Church sound like the Mafia, it's really pretty easy, if one doesn't want to be Catholic, go to another Church, the corrollary would be, if one doesn't go to another Church, one doesn't want to. Catholics are a family, I'm unaware of any familiy with unwavering unity. Protestants certainly don't have it.
No. I don't see how one could even posit this. Remember the reformation? It was all about true belief. It's just that outside of someone starting a revolution in Bohemia or Germany it's next to impossible to read the heart of another. If countmeout.ie helps non-catholics take themselves off the catholic registers, isn't that a good thing? I don't see how a non-Catholic can get on the register. Don't register at the parish and your not on any "list" the premise of the site is flawed, anyone could register (which is probably the purpose of it) any number of times. It's bogus through and through. Don't catholics want a true reflection of the numbers of their true believers, rather than a figure large enough to bludgeon their morality on the people politically? The bias inherent in your question is obvious, and rather shocking for the 21st century I might add. Why wouldn't agitating for making a Protestant/secular sensibility the dominant view be viewed as "bludgeoning their morality on the people politically?" People who don't pray, who don't attend confession, who don't believe in any of the bibles teachings, but only consider themselves catholic by birth, as though it were the defining point, they aren't getting into heaven, they aren't true believers but just babies with water splashed on them who grew up to be normal human beings. I mean, these people will tick the catholic box in the census, they will call themselves catholic and maintain your numbers, losing numbers of people who legitimately don't believe in your god is the least of your loss, if the apathetic free style catholics keep ticking your box on the form, and are considered valid followers of your faith and teachings. You know alot about people, judging their heart and knowing the are not going to Heaven and all, who gave you that authority, that power? Are you God? If not, you are in a serious need of humility. Protestantism continues to fracture into smaller and smaller sects, the last I saw there were some 40,000 Bible only Churches, ever wonder why? Are there 40,000 different TRUTHS? I don't think so, perhaps instead of pointing out the splinter in someone elses eye you should be removing the log from your own? That is, put your own house in order. Surely, providing an opt out website such as countmeout.ie is a good thing, I mean, you don't want to claim members by not giving them any choice in the matter, right? You make the Church sound like the Mafia, it's really pretty easy, if one doesn't want to be Catholic, go to another Church, the corrollary would be, if one doesn't go to another Church, one doesn't want to. Catholics are a family, I'm unaware of any familiy with unwavering unity. Protestants certainly don't have it.
If countmeout.ie helps non-catholics take themselves off the catholic registers, isn't that a good thing? I don't see how a non-Catholic can get on the register. Don't register at the parish and your not on any "list" the premise of the site is flawed, anyone could register (which is probably the purpose of it) any number of times. It's bogus through and through. Don't catholics want a true reflection of the numbers of their true believers, rather than a figure large enough to bludgeon their morality on the people politically? The bias inherent in your question is obvious, and rather shocking for the 21st century I might add. Why wouldn't agitating for making a Protestant/secular sensibility the dominant view be viewed as "bludgeoning their morality on the people politically?" People who don't pray, who don't attend confession, who don't believe in any of the bibles teachings, but only consider themselves catholic by birth, as though it were the defining point, they aren't getting into heaven, they aren't true believers but just babies with water splashed on them who grew up to be normal human beings. I mean, these people will tick the catholic box in the census, they will call themselves catholic and maintain your numbers, losing numbers of people who legitimately don't believe in your god is the least of your loss, if the apathetic free style catholics keep ticking your box on the form, and are considered valid followers of your faith and teachings. You know alot about people, judging their heart and knowing the are not going to Heaven and all, who gave you that authority, that power? Are you God? If not, you are in a serious need of humility. Protestantism continues to fracture into smaller and smaller sects, the last I saw there were some 40,000 Bible only Churches, ever wonder why? Are there 40,000 different TRUTHS? I don't think so, perhaps instead of pointing out the splinter in someone elses eye you should be removing the log from your own? That is, put your own house in order. Surely, providing an opt out website such as countmeout.ie is a good thing, I mean, you don't want to claim members by not giving them any choice in the matter, right? You make the Church sound like the Mafia, it's really pretty easy, if one doesn't want to be Catholic, go to another Church, the corrollary would be, if one doesn't go to another Church, one doesn't want to. Catholics are a family, I'm unaware of any familiy with unwavering unity. Protestants certainly don't have it.
I don't see how a non-Catholic can get on the register. Don't register at the parish and your not on any "list" the premise of the site is flawed, anyone could register (which is probably the purpose of it) any number of times. It's bogus through and through. Don't catholics want a true reflection of the numbers of their true believers, rather than a figure large enough to bludgeon their morality on the people politically? The bias inherent in your question is obvious, and rather shocking for the 21st century I might add. Why wouldn't agitating for making a Protestant/secular sensibility the dominant view be viewed as "bludgeoning their morality on the people politically?" People who don't pray, who don't attend confession, who don't believe in any of the bibles teachings, but only consider themselves catholic by birth, as though it were the defining point, they aren't getting into heaven, they aren't true believers but just babies with water splashed on them who grew up to be normal human beings. I mean, these people will tick the catholic box in the census, they will call themselves catholic and maintain your numbers, losing numbers of people who legitimately don't believe in your god is the least of your loss, if the apathetic free style catholics keep ticking your box on the form, and are considered valid followers of your faith and teachings. You know alot about people, judging their heart and knowing the are not going to Heaven and all, who gave you that authority, that power? Are you God? If not, you are in a serious need of humility. Protestantism continues to fracture into smaller and smaller sects, the last I saw there were some 40,000 Bible only Churches, ever wonder why? Are there 40,000 different TRUTHS? I don't think so, perhaps instead of pointing out the splinter in someone elses eye you should be removing the log from your own? That is, put your own house in order. Surely, providing an opt out website such as countmeout.ie is a good thing, I mean, you don't want to claim members by not giving them any choice in the matter, right? You make the Church sound like the Mafia, it's really pretty easy, if one doesn't want to be Catholic, go to another Church, the corrollary would be, if one doesn't go to another Church, one doesn't want to. Catholics are a family, I'm unaware of any familiy with unwavering unity. Protestants certainly don't have it.
Don't catholics want a true reflection of the numbers of their true believers, rather than a figure large enough to bludgeon their morality on the people politically? The bias inherent in your question is obvious, and rather shocking for the 21st century I might add. Why wouldn't agitating for making a Protestant/secular sensibility the dominant view be viewed as "bludgeoning their morality on the people politically?" People who don't pray, who don't attend confession, who don't believe in any of the bibles teachings, but only consider themselves catholic by birth, as though it were the defining point, they aren't getting into heaven, they aren't true believers but just babies with water splashed on them who grew up to be normal human beings. I mean, these people will tick the catholic box in the census, they will call themselves catholic and maintain your numbers, losing numbers of people who legitimately don't believe in your god is the least of your loss, if the apathetic free style catholics keep ticking your box on the form, and are considered valid followers of your faith and teachings. You know alot about people, judging their heart and knowing the are not going to Heaven and all, who gave you that authority, that power? Are you God? If not, you are in a serious need of humility. Protestantism continues to fracture into smaller and smaller sects, the last I saw there were some 40,000 Bible only Churches, ever wonder why? Are there 40,000 different TRUTHS? I don't think so, perhaps instead of pointing out the splinter in someone elses eye you should be removing the log from your own? That is, put your own house in order. Surely, providing an opt out website such as countmeout.ie is a good thing, I mean, you don't want to claim members by not giving them any choice in the matter, right? You make the Church sound like the Mafia, it's really pretty easy, if one doesn't want to be Catholic, go to another Church, the corrollary would be, if one doesn't go to another Church, one doesn't want to. Catholics are a family, I'm unaware of any familiy with unwavering unity. Protestants certainly don't have it.
The bias inherent in your question is obvious, and rather shocking for the 21st century I might add. Why wouldn't agitating for making a Protestant/secular sensibility the dominant view be viewed as "bludgeoning their morality on the people politically?" People who don't pray, who don't attend confession, who don't believe in any of the bibles teachings, but only consider themselves catholic by birth, as though it were the defining point, they aren't getting into heaven, they aren't true believers but just babies with water splashed on them who grew up to be normal human beings. I mean, these people will tick the catholic box in the census, they will call themselves catholic and maintain your numbers, losing numbers of people who legitimately don't believe in your god is the least of your loss, if the apathetic free style catholics keep ticking your box on the form, and are considered valid followers of your faith and teachings. You know alot about people, judging their heart and knowing the are not going to Heaven and all, who gave you that authority, that power? Are you God? If not, you are in a serious need of humility. Protestantism continues to fracture into smaller and smaller sects, the last I saw there were some 40,000 Bible only Churches, ever wonder why? Are there 40,000 different TRUTHS? I don't think so, perhaps instead of pointing out the splinter in someone elses eye you should be removing the log from your own? That is, put your own house in order. Surely, providing an opt out website such as countmeout.ie is a good thing, I mean, you don't want to claim members by not giving them any choice in the matter, right? You make the Church sound like the Mafia, it's really pretty easy, if one doesn't want to be Catholic, go to another Church, the corrollary would be, if one doesn't go to another Church, one doesn't want to. Catholics are a family, I'm unaware of any familiy with unwavering unity. Protestants certainly don't have it.
People who don't pray, who don't attend confession, who don't believe in any of the bibles teachings, but only consider themselves catholic by birth, as though it were the defining point, they aren't getting into heaven, they aren't true believers but just babies with water splashed on them who grew up to be normal human beings. I mean, these people will tick the catholic box in the census, they will call themselves catholic and maintain your numbers, losing numbers of people who legitimately don't believe in your god is the least of your loss, if the apathetic free style catholics keep ticking your box on the form, and are considered valid followers of your faith and teachings. You know alot about people, judging their heart and knowing the are not going to Heaven and all, who gave you that authority, that power? Are you God? If not, you are in a serious need of humility. Protestantism continues to fracture into smaller and smaller sects, the last I saw there were some 40,000 Bible only Churches, ever wonder why? Are there 40,000 different TRUTHS? I don't think so, perhaps instead of pointing out the splinter in someone elses eye you should be removing the log from your own? That is, put your own house in order. Surely, providing an opt out website such as countmeout.ie is a good thing, I mean, you don't want to claim members by not giving them any choice in the matter, right? You make the Church sound like the Mafia, it's really pretty easy, if one doesn't want to be Catholic, go to another Church, the corrollary would be, if one doesn't go to another Church, one doesn't want to. Catholics are a family, I'm unaware of any familiy with unwavering unity. Protestants certainly don't have it.
You know alot about people, judging their heart and knowing the are not going to Heaven and all, who gave you that authority, that power? Are you God? If not, you are in a serious need of humility. Protestantism continues to fracture into smaller and smaller sects, the last I saw there were some 40,000 Bible only Churches, ever wonder why? Are there 40,000 different TRUTHS? I don't think so, perhaps instead of pointing out the splinter in someone elses eye you should be removing the log from your own? That is, put your own house in order. Surely, providing an opt out website such as countmeout.ie is a good thing, I mean, you don't want to claim members by not giving them any choice in the matter, right? You make the Church sound like the Mafia, it's really pretty easy, if one doesn't want to be Catholic, go to another Church, the corrollary would be, if one doesn't go to another Church, one doesn't want to. Catholics are a family, I'm unaware of any familiy with unwavering unity. Protestants certainly don't have it.
Surely, providing an opt out website such as countmeout.ie is a good thing, I mean, you don't want to claim members by not giving them any choice in the matter, right?
ocianain wrote: » No. I don't see how one could even posit this. Remember the reformation? It was all about true belief. It's just that outside of someone starting a revolution in Bohemia or Germany it's next to impossible to read the heart of another.
I don't see how a non-Catholic can get on the register. Don't register at the parish and your not on any "list" the premise of the site is flawed, anyone could register (which is probably the purpose of it) any number of times. It's bogus through and through.
The bias inherent in your question is obvious, and rather shocking for the 21st century I might add. Why wouldn't agitating for making a Protestant/secular sensibility the dominant view be viewed as "bludgeoning their morality on the people politically?"
You know alot about people, judging their heart and knowing the are not going to Heaven and all, who gave you that authority, that power? Are you God? If not, you are in a serious need of humility. Protestantism continues to fracture into smaller and smaller sects, the last I saw there were some 40,000 Bible only Churches, ever wonder why? Are there 40,000 different TRUTHS? I don't think so, perhaps instead of pointing out the splinter in someone elses eye you should be removing the log from your own? That is, put your own house in order.
You make the Church sound like the Mafia, it's really pretty easy, if one doesn't want to be Catholic, go to another Church, the corrollary would be, if one doesn't go to another Church, one doesn't want to. Catholics are a family, I'm unaware of any familiy with unwavering unity. Protestants certainly don't have it.
ocianain wrote: » I see I struck a nerve. Here comes more, on the one hand you posit the Catholic Church as this all powerful, evil institution, on the other hand you believe it may be threatened by some band width? Does this make sense? Of course not.
Infant baptism has been the norm for 20 centuries, even longer as it follows on the Jewish rite of circumcision (which had to be done before the 8th day). This is how one entered the Jewish covenant, under the Christian covenant all were covered (obviously only males were circumcised). I take it you're against infant baptism? Given your tendency to demand conformity of thought (as seen in the above post), I take it you're a Calvinist?
The C of E has influence in England, the Queens the head of it, does this offend you? Do you rail against it? I think I smell hypocrisy.
I assure you, my religion does not teach you are God. It is not a fundamental teaching of my religion. Have you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. When I want to know the foundational beliefs of a faith, I read the documents, read Luthers, Bondage of the Will (hated it), Calvins Institutes (hated it more), read some of the Wesley brothers stuff (some good stuff there), pretty familiar with the land grab the English try to pass of as a spiritual reformation. What have you read about Catholicism from Catholic perspective. Nothing I'm sure. You probably gobble up the rantings of your Catholic hating preacher as the TRUTH. Too bad. How about starting a Protestant numbers list, that way we can take off all the non-believing Protestants that inflate that list! That log is still in the way
Nevore wrote: » Only anecdotal for now, and the fella from countmeout said he'd check into it but apparently the baptismal register is only one of several that's referred to to compile numbers of Catholics.
ocianain wrote: » I don't see how a non-Catholic can get on the register. Don't register at the parish and your not on any "list" the premise of the site is flawed, anyone could register (which is probably the purpose of it) any number of times. It's bogus through and through.
Overblood wrote: » Which figures are you talking about? The 2002 census which states that 90% of Ireland's population is catholic? Are you saying that those figures are correct up to a margin of error of 100,000? Would ja goway!
Overblood wrote: » The level of ignorance towards reality out there is astounding.
Overblood wrote: » Anyway, the thing is, I had him shaved down to just a bare human that was ignorant of science, ignorant of his own bible, ignorant of catholicism, but yet believed in some sort of creator. The only bit of catholicism that remained was probably that "ontological bond" thing from his baptism.
Overblood wrote: » After telling me that he never goes to mass or he doesn't believe in transubstantiation or jesus's divinity, he doesn't pray or confess, basically he doesn't do jack shit that a catholic is supposed to do, he will still tick the Catholic box on the census. Either that or his wife will tick "catholic", or his mammy will...
Overblood wrote: » 100,000 margin of error? Nah. They're not really catholics. I'd say a million, but neither of us have evidence so....
Overblood wrote: » Is there really room for 2,200,000 arses in the churches of Ireland?
PDN wrote: » If any of those nominal Catholics do anything nasty or evil then you can bet that Overblood etc will fall over themselves to argue that they are real Catholics and that their behaviour is an argument against Christianity - blah blah blah - yawn.
Overblood wrote: » If they do something evil in the name of god or catholicism then of course I would.
Jakkass wrote: » The 2006 census says that 86% of the population are Catholic or at least nominally so. I pretty much think that's accurate.
