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Iceland to join the EU

ei.sdraob

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8153139.stm

what do our resident Daily Mail reading euro/EU skeptics have to say now?

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Hitman Actual

ei.sdraob wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8153139.stm

what do our resident Daily Mail reading euro/EU skeptics have to say now?

It still has to go to referendum though, which I imagine will be very, very tight.

ei.sdraob

Yep fishing rights would be a big issue for them

Tho the advantages of having a solid currency could outweigh these, and then it could be nice to join the other PIIGS sucking of Germanies tits

The wiki article seems to have been updated as well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland_and_the_European_Union
the poll are interesting in light of the bankruptcy of the country

ei.sdraob|boards.ie

bijapos

Dont know if its a done deal. I have two friends whose mother is Icelandic and both are sceptical about the idea. The feeling in Iceland itself is that the financial crisis will pass eventually but as is said above the fishing rights would be gone for good. Most people realise that the last few years were a bit mad and Iceland should try to go back to where it was 10 or 15 years ago. Their crisis was created by a small number of people although a lot joined on the bandwagon as well. Some of the debate mentioned the possibility of pegging Icelands krone to the Euro as a possible solution. One to watch either way.

KINGVictor

And...?????

Tipsy Mac

Ireland has lost over €300 billion worth of fish to EU trawlers fishing in our waters since we joined the EU, I presume it would be worse for Iceland and if they valued their biggest industry they would steer clear of joining.

Moriarty

Do tell us how you arrived at that €300 billion figure?

PopeBuckfastXVI

KINGVictor wrote: »

And...?????

And... you don't think that's relevant to a Politics > European Union Forum why?

PopeBuckfastXVI

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Ireland has lost over €300 billion worth of fish to EU trawlers fishing in our waters since we joined the EU, I presume it would be worse for Iceland and if they valued their biggest industry they would steer clear of joining.

One of the problems with counting the 'lost' stock is that it assumes the Irish industry would have had the capacity to fish that '300 billion' (or whatever figure people use in the argument, it varies). I don't think our fishing fleet has anywhere near that capacity, so it's not really a relevant figure.

Fish stocks are not like oil, as they replenish themselves, it's not a zero sum game, like every fish that goes into a Spanish boat is coming out of an Irish one.

Yes other EU countries have benefited from our membership, and rightly so, it's a partnership after all, that doesn't mean we've lost out though.

KINGVictor

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

And... you don't think that's relevant to a Politics > European Union Forum why?

That a country decides to vote whether to join the EU should make sensational news/headlines..No

Iceland is in economic dire straights and may feel they might get some leaverage by joing the EU to get some economic respite.They are purpotedly going to hold a referendum..so I feel we should wait and see the outcome before asking how the daily mail and euroskeptics feel.

Tipsy Mac

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

One of the problems with counting the 'lost' stock is that it assumes the Irish industry would have had the capacity to fish that '300 billion' (or whatever figure people use in the argument, it varies). I don't think our fishing fleet has anywhere near that capacity, so it's not really a relevant figure.

Fish stocks are not like oil, as they replenish themselves, it's not a zero sum game, like every fish that goes into a Spanish boat is coming out of an Irish one.

Yes other EU countries have benefited from our membership, and rightly so, it's a partnership after all, that doesn't mean we've lost out though.

We had plenty of capacity but our quotas for our own fish was reduced substantially by the EU so the fleet has deminished. Interesting you mention Oil, how come we can't head up to the North Sea and plant an Irish rig there in the same way a UK boat can enter Irish waters and catch fish, surely a shared resource is a shared resource?

Scofflaw

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Ireland has lost over €300 billion worth of fish to EU trawlers fishing in our waters since we joined the EU, I presume it would be worse for Iceland and if they valued their biggest industry they would steer clear of joining.

Here are the real figures, in millions of year 2000 dollars:

Year|Ireland|France|UK|Spain|Russia|Netherlands|Norway|Faeroe(Denmark)|Germany|Belgium|Latvia|Others|Total
1950|12.03|45.4|55.68|0|0|0|0|0|0|1.66|0|0|114.76
1951|9.79|50.24|64.93|0|0|0|0|0|0|1.05|0|0.01|126.02
1952|14.37|62.18|59.14|0|0|0.01|0|0|0|1.55|0|0.06|137.31
1953|15.53|47.35|56.18|6.12|29.35|0|0|0|0|0.95|3.14|3.19|161.8
1954|14.84|60.11|23.38|0|48.17|0|0|0|0|0.83|4.11|4.72|156.17
1955|19.48|71.44|43.88|0|55.52|0.81|0|0.01|0|3.32|4.8|5.73|204.98
1956|18.43|61.2|42.01|0|54.89|0.02|0|0|0|4.49|5.11|5.87|192.01
1957|16.12|62.34|32.36|0|36.71|0|0|0.06|8.47|6.13|4.86|6.02|173.07
1958|21.31|86.66|36.73|0|31.52|0.11|0|0|2.93|6.45|4.64|5.96|196.32
1959|23.26|84.01|31.94|0|34.22|1.24|0|0|1.99|4.21|5|6.65|192.53
1960|21.17|121.28|34.31|0|34.74|0.76|0|0|0.32|1.37|4.74|6.15|224.85
1961|20.99|78.1|26.48|0|35.34|1.01|0|0|0.23|3.02|3.61|4.62|173.4
1962|21.45|103.47|26.01|0|41.2|0.24|0|0|1.7|2.92|4.01|5.03|206.04
1963|22.19|104.44|26.84|0|36.89|1.52|0|0|0.25|1.66|4.84|5.94|204.57
1964|22.24|97.74|33.03|0|33.1|1.09|0|0|0.28|3.45|5.15|6.75|202.82
1965|23.67|110.98|31.49|32.48|25.77|1.43|0|0.37|0.36|4.16|5.02|6.41|242.14
1966|29.2|163.61|26.53|0|32.03|5.16|0|0|0.98|2.89|4.88|6.21|271.49
1967|30.22|87.1|29.92|0|36.43|6.76|0|0.97|0.96|2|4.51|5.6|204.48
1968|31.86|100.48|29.23|0|54.42|5.18|0|0|1.02|1.96|4.75|5.74|234.65
1969|36.71|116|30.68|0|67.96|4.93|0|0|1.98|2.05|4.78|5.75|270.85
1970|43.58|108.04|30.92|0|80.98|3.25|2.3|0|1.13|3.1|7.59|8.22|289.11
1971|44.78|104.54|31.48|0|104.36|3.8|9.57|0.92|0.04|2.76|8.24|10.67|321.16
1972|58.09|89.5|36.9|29.32|83.72|5.49|2.28|0|0.26|1.63|8.41|10.04|325.64
1973|34.86|117.97|47.9|136.42|22.28|5.43|5.45|0.94|1.08|3.19|2.63|4.81|382.97
1974|31.87|104.93|40.6|140.64|63.3|3.01|4.29|0.57|1.66|2.99|5.23|8.22|407.3
1975|31.29|93.85|33.56|174.21|131.27|6.8|0.39|0.23|2.35|2.29|8.25|14.44|498.92
1976|39.29|68.67|38.75|150.06|203.93|6.37|1.26|1.32|2.21|3.64|14.53|22.41|552.45
1977|36.39|53.7|42.41|40.41|18.41|6.82|0.63|1.59|2.67|2.73|1.71|4.77|212.24
1978|40.09|53.01|44.4|25.76|0|6.11|1.65|5.38|9.19|2.12|0|2.87|190.57
1979|43.43|54.28|41.76|31.34|0|6.34|3.23|4.09|4.54|2.08|0|3.76|194.87
1980|55.48|60.58|30.5|19.76|0|9.98|3.53|8.07|4.11|2.72|0|4.22|198.94
1981|67.49|111.72|42.69|25.53|0|18.4|5.34|0.42|4.11|3.96|0|2.79|282.45
1982|79.71|97.11|48.93|24.85|0|18.2|7.65|5.71|1.63|3.98|0|3.02|290.79
1983|77.27|107.91|35.22|25.41|0|21.3|8|5.92|3.34|3.86|0|3.46|291.71
1984|75.95|94.01|47.3|32.51|0|31.69|7.67|8.51|1.69|3.63|0|3|305.95
1985|85.94|78.04|50.34|35.05|0|9.74|8.25|8.17|1.76|3.65|0|2.59|283.52
1986|85.47|74.73|62.75|31.14|0|17.94|11.11|18.48|1.57|3.88|0|2.9|309.98
1987|99.72|66.5|78.44|38.64|0|8.57|9.41|29.67|2.57|2.32|0|2.7|338.55
1988|100.26|66.74|73.21|46.1|0|15.02|10.53|30.99|5.38|2.04|0|2.77|353.05
1989|104.36|95.29|56.65|54.64|0|11.88|15.59|36.08|5.27|3.35|0|2.25|385.37
1990|102.87|79.47|60.66|51.93|0|18.15|14.82|20.96|4.27|2.44|0|1.16|356.73
1991|105.09|58.54|63.13|60.55|0|19|5.37|3.96|4.42|1.24|0|1.16|322.46
1992|153.25|64.32|76.19|68.47|0|19.39|5.06|2.52|8.64|1.71|0|2.21|401.76
1993|155.2|67.45|74.07|71.86|0|27.71|6.55|4.33|11.55|2.09|0|1.46|422.27
1994|138.49|68.75|80.06|66.55|0|21.25|8.92|7.5|12.98|2.9|0|2.47|409.89
1995|157.79|83.43|74.96|77.67|0|22.76|10.52|4.22|8.26|3.75|0|5.77|449.13
1996|141.47|69.86|73.37|71.16|0.59|23.19|13.88|0.33|6.91|3.66|0|3.8|408.22
1997|168.29|80.09|82.45|109.1|0.89|30.73|11.27|1.17|4.6|3.88|0|2|494.45
1998|216.86|84.27|79.59|72.88|0.22|32.35|25.21|1.7|15.75|2.85|0|2.09|533.76
1999|204.95|74.88|78.81|66.53|1.32|20.98|10.99|5.48|8.64|2.69|0|2.2|477.45
2000|153.12|94.37|60.15|47.57|0|30.09|9.24|0|12.94|2.2|0|1.64|411.32
2001|160.66|81.57|61.79|42.73|0|44.4|8.21|0|12.98|2.59|0|2.25|417.19
2002|154.32|78.82|58.05|63.92|0|34.7|8.39|0|10.4|2.71|0|1.39|412.71
2003|191.39|75.44|54.54|79.97|0|43.43|17.38|0|9.55|2.86|0|1.16|475.73
2004|198.02|66.42|50|59.9|0|60.73|12|0|9.26|2.71|0|1.37|460.42
Total|3490.64|0|1843.23|2043.26|442.21|652.46|271.79|218.31|196.28|92.71|32.35|123.11|11933.12

Source

If we throw all of the "Other" category in as EU members, then the total amount of fish the other EU states have taken from our waters is $5.2bn since 1973, while we have had $3.5bn. Over the same period we've received probably close to another half a billion in funding for our fisheries, including the building of 5 out of our 8 existing fisheries protection vessels.

You're free to argue that even that is wrong, if you like, but what you're not free to do is pluck utterly ridiculous figures out of the air.

regards,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

We had plenty of capacity but our quotas for our own fish was reduced substantially by the EU so the fleet has deminished. Interesting you mention Oil, how come we can't head up to the North Sea and plant an Irish rig there in the same way a UK boat can enter Irish waters and catch fish, surely a shared resource is a shared resource?

Oil is not a shared resource. Fisheries are.

regards,
Scofflaw

Tipsy Mac

Scofflaw wrote: »

You're free to argue that even that is wrong, if you like, but what you're not free to do is pluck utterly ridiculous figures out of the air.

regards,
Scofflaw

Apologies, the figure I should have said was €200 billion, I got it from here...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0716/1224250761236.html

Scofflaw

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Apologies, the figure I should have said was €200 billion, I got it from here...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0716/1224250761236.html

And it's an entirely made-up figure. Where is the data behind it?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Scrambled egg

I don't mean to sound crude, but , Screw Iceland , they were happy to sit up in their isolated corner of Europe when they had the money, now it just seems they suddenly see the EU in their best intrests because their broke. I say screw em, they didn't need us then and we don't need them now.

ixtlan

Scrambled egg wrote: »

I don't mean to sound crude, but , Screw Iceland , they were happy to sit up in their isolated corner of Europe when they had the money, now it just seems they suddenly see the EU in their best intrests because their broke. I say screw em, they didn't need us then and we don't need them now.

I have actually been on holiday in Iceland, and have been thinking of going back since it may be a bit cheaper.

If there is a referendum it will be very divisive. I don't really know which way it would go. I think they may have a much more independent streak compared to most countries. However if they do join I welcome them. People in glass houses etc etc.

The EU is a partnership. They will have to share their fisheries and that will be painful for them but they will get a stable currency, structural funds and other benefits.

Their joining will surely have benefits for the Irish fishing industry.

In response to the comments on the "fish we lost", the "fish" will not be the absolute killer argument there that people think. It's been a very big concern in Iceland that many people don't have many prospects outside the fishing industry. Indeed this concern is partly what led to the project in the East of Iceland to build a massive hydro-electric plant to feed an aluminium smelter. That region had very few prospects and this was seen as a boost to employment. Whether it was the right decision is questionable. Environmentalists and Bjork have been up in arms about it.

Fishing is a great resource bit not everyone can be or wants to be a fisherman or work in a fish factory.

Tourism is something Iceland wants to develop, and being part of the EU would help that.

Ix.

Mario007

are you all sure there is going to be a referendum? some countries dont use the refernda and trust their assembly instead and as far as i understand the parliament has voted on starting talks with the EU on the matter of joining it.

Scofflaw

Mario007 wrote: »

are you all sure there is going to be a referendum? some countries dont use the refernda and trust their assembly instead and as far as i understand the parliament has voted on starting talks with the EU on the matter of joining it.

Most countries do hold an accession referendum, even if they don't usually hold referendums. Even the UK had one, if a little after accession. I don't doubt Iceland would have one.

More generally, I can fully understand their concerns over their fisheries, which aren't quite the nationalistic defensiveness one might expect:

Above all, the country is worried that it would have to surrender management of its unsubsidised but highly successful fisheries to Brussels.

"Our fisheries in particular have been maintained in a sustainable manner, unlike those of the EU, which has been unable to control overfishing," said Mr Dellsen.

That's a very reasonable point, because the CFP has a political negotiating mechanism that has resulted in appalling over-fishing within the CFP area.

cordially,
Scofflaw

thebman

lol if your going to say screw Iceland, you might as well say screw Ireland. We dug our own hole, why should the EU help us now?

thebman wrote: »

lol if your going to say screw Iceland, you might as well say screw Ireland. We dug our own hole, why should the EU help us now?

Because, for the most part, we already play happy families with the rest of the EU however Iceland kept to themselves?

Bit of a difference between Iceland and Ireland in their ties to the rest of Europe.

P. Breathnach

Rb wrote: »

Because, for the most part, we already play happy families with the rest of the EU however Iceland kept to themselves?

Bit of a difference between Iceland and Ireland in their ties to the rest of Europe.

Hmm. Have you been following the debates on the Lisbon treaty?

ei.sdraob

Mario007 wrote: »

are you all sure there is going to be a referendum? some countries dont use the refernda and trust their assembly instead and as far as i understand the parliament has voted on starting talks with the EU on the matter of joining it.

the linked BBC article mentions a referendum

regards
ei.sdraob | boards.ie

Mario007

ei.sdraob wrote: »

the linked BBC article mentions a referendum

regards
ei.sdraob | boards.ie

oh right thanks...all i knew is that the 12 recent new members, for the most part, didnt have a referendum so i thought maybe iceland wouldnt have either

thebman

Rb wrote: »

Because, for the most part, we already play happy families with the rest of the EU however Iceland kept to themselves?

Bit of a difference between Iceland and Ireland in their ties to the rest of Europe.

But we are only in the EU because it is in our best interests. If we could have had the money without joining most people would probably be against it here too.

I don't think thats a good reason to tell them to go *bleep* themselves.

Scrambled egg

thebman wrote: »

If we could have had the money without joining most people would probably be against it here too.

I don't think thats a good reason to tell them to go *bleep* themselves.

Emmmmmmm not true friend. Britain still would have joined and we do most of our trade with them so either way we were in. Im just saying its kind of cheeky of Iceland to join now when they wouldn't when they had the money and weren't willing to share.

thebman

Its not cheeky though, their needs changed thats all thats happened. It is now more beneficial to them to be in than out so they want in.

I think thats perfectly reasonable and I think if we had been in the situation Iceland was in, we'd have done the same which is what I was saying above.

It would be ridiculous to expect countries to join the EU even if it was not in their interest for the benefit of all other EU countries.

aujopimur

ei.sdraob

aujopimur wrote: »

So

very constructive :cool:

Aard

I welcome Iceland joining the EU. For a while there, many of the new states joining were socially backward - Romania & Bulgaria, anyone? I'm pleased that such a progressive country is interested in the Union. Assuming we keep the 1 State :: 1 Commissioner ratio, I believe it'll have a positive impact on the general forward-thinking of the EU.

Other than that, Iceland has huge fresh water supplies (probably not the right word). In the future, access to drinking water will be a big issue, and having Iceland on board will mean a much reduced cost on importing it.

In all, I think it's a positive step.

Martin 2

I too would welcome Iceland into the EU, it’d be nice to have another island nation in the union maybe we could form an island grouping we’d have many common issues such as transport and communications.

And if they join the Euro (a high priority I’d imagine) even better, another country we won’t need to get currency for.